dreamchaser

Sorry, dumb question. Please enlighten me... Thanks

Deafness

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shel90

total communication which is an educational philosophy of incorporation all communication modes into a deaf ed program. The purpose of it is to use whatever works for each child. Only problem is that one deaf ed teacher cannot teach a lesson using CS, ASL, oral, Sim-Com, SEE and PSE all at once so it hasnt been proved to be as successful as the supporters wanted it to be.

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~Shel~

dreamchaser

thanks for the info. I know that soon I will be required to take SEE for my interpreteres program. I understand that it can be helpful in teaching literary skills and proper english, but geeeeez, isn't a little cumbersom for general conversations?

jillio

I personally, have never seen SEE used with all of it's additions in general conversation. Usually, a SEE signer will use more of a PSE in coversation and retain only some of the initialized signs, but none of the tense markers, plural markers, etc. Andit is very cumbersome!

Bottesini

"thanks for the info. I know that soon I will be required to take SEE for my interpreteres program. I understand that it can be helpful in teaching literary skills and proper english, but geeeeez, isn't a little cumbersom for general conversations? "Posted by Dreamchaser

When you refer to 'literary skills' do you actually mean literacy?

shel90

I couldnt sign pure SEE for more than 5 minutes even if I tried. It just is not natural.

I only use it when I demonstrate English grammar to my students.

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~Shel~

dreamchaser

I have very little experience with it. Before I started back to school, I was just so frustrated because I wanted to learn to communicate with the Deaf, and I didn't know how, so I got some signing tapes,,, They turned out to be signed english, but I didn't realize there was a difference then. I wished I had never studied them, cuz my ASL teacher would be all over me for using English gramar,,, teeeeheeee,,, thank God she liked me, cuz with her patience and my trying to focus, I still pullled an A+ in my first term. I still get really confused sometimes, (I am only in my second year) and I will start out in ASL grammar, and somewhere along the line, I code switched to PSE. Oh well,,, practice,practice,practice. I get really frustrated because I want to be a good signer, and not just a sloppy signer. I am not taking ASL just for a prerequisite for a different major. I want to work with Deaf advocacy, and how can I do that unless I am really fluent. I may have to keep at it longer than others, or maybe I have just hit a platau that I will wake up one day and find I have crossed over... Don't know... But thanks for the info, cuz I really wants to know all I can learn at this late age.

Bebonang

Hey, it is never too late to learn and it is good that you can learn all the good things in education even when you are learning ASL. Never stop learning until you die. I am learning and I am attending the college on the Manitoulin Island on working in the office which I have not done this for many years. My job occupation was Keypunch and Keytape and then I did work for a while in office work. I want to learn how to do computer because we don't need typewriter any more for work chores. Funny, my teacher want me to study general courses like English, Math, Study Skill and Computer Skills but not in office work. I have to use CART which is a device like a computer only the notetaker is typing for me to read on the screen on the computer. The CART is not always great or good at all. I still need an interpreter to understand what is going on in the classroom better than the CART. I like to keep busy with my mind and not have to go senile. Having my mind exercise is really great and I love it. So, just keep learning as much as you want to.

~SG~

Mod's note:

Thread's moved to proper location.

dreamchaser

LOL, I type faster than I think.. thanks for the save.

dreamchaser

Nice to see ya again. You go girl,,, education keeps you alive and your brain healthy... honestly. I know CART can suck. I was studying Typewell for a while, and may one day get certified as real time transcriptionist. Just too busy with regular program now. Typewell is much better than CART, but it is really new with very few qualified transcriptionists. Still, an interpreter is the best in most cases, except that with Typewell you get to take the transcript home. I asked you a bunch of questions in our last threat about being old... If you can still get into it, you can see what I wrote back to you. I am expecting you to write a book one day. So, have you learned SEE? Was it hard?

ismi

Having used both, I'm surprised you feel Typewell is better. Could you elaborate on why that is? My guess is that you feel that Typewell has fewer errors, though I wonder if you realize the extent to which it paraphrases and summarizes, leaving clients out of the loop and missing details.

dreamchaser

I am sorry, I wasn't speaking from experience. I was repeating what I had heard,. I should have specified. One reason I thought it was better was because of the people that run the course. They are always stressing total communication access that is understandable. There testing is very hard because they say that they want Deaf students to have access to everything being said and done in the classroom. we had to put in things that were happening, like a car alarm went off outside, and the students were off topic, the professor was off topic etc. So as to not leave the student in the dark, we had to caption the event and what was said. Of coure it is not verbatim. Also the requires 89 percent of main points to be captured, with a low error rate. I have heard, but have no idea if it is true, that Typewell can capture as much as a terp. Just to be accepted into the training program you had to pass the typing test at 75 wpm with no mistakes. I suspect that it like most things, that it takes years to develop a better capture rate, and it really helps if you know the subject matter that you are covering. If a Typewellest doesn't know about a subject, he is suppose to get the books and handouts etc to learn the topic matter and vocabulary. Those that aren't dedicated to giving good service, the ones that are only there to get a pay check, are probably not very dedicated to doing this prestudy or practicing to sharpen their skills.

Unfortunately, I was studying court reporting to work with students, but before I finished I got in a car wreck and trashed my neck. I can't sit in that position for any length of time before my neck and hands start going numb. I thought I could transfer my knowledge over to Typewell, about 8 years later, but having learned steno was a big detriment to learning Typewell because they work on totally different theories. I also have a hard time sitting in one position over a computer for too long without changing positions,, still!! So, I didn't successfully complete the Typewell course. Actually, I was already doing the terp program when I started into the Typewell program. I was trying to pull fourteen credits in college plus put four or five hours a day into Typewell practice. I wanted to be able to Transcribe to help put me through school. Disaster! Maybe one day I will go back and get my cert in Typewell just to have it. But my dream job was always to be an advocate for the Deaf, and to use my terp skills to volunteer at Homeless shelters or wherever people couldn't afford to pay for a terp.

I realize that there are just not enough qualified terps out there to meet the need. Hopefully that will change one day. For now, the only way to get real verbatim is to have a stenographer with a steno machine such as that used in court reporting to be able to capture word for word. Even court reporters have to go back and edit their transcripts. Most utilize a tape recorder, so if a court or school transcript is ordered, they can go back a listen for word for word translation mistakes or drops. Quite often you will find places in a court reporter's notes that say "not audible" or "unintelligible, because court reporters can't process two conversations at once, and "extra noise like coughing or laughter, two people speaking on top of each, paper rattling etc. can cloud up what the tape recording picks up as well; thus, any type of verbatim or non verbatim-transcription is ever going to be perfect. Another consideration is that court reporters make from 60 to 80 dollars an hour here in Oregon, so it is not cost effective at all, plus there is a shortage of qualified court reporters just as there is a shortage of qualified interpreters. Even interpreters don't totally translate word for word.

Anyway, I am sorry if I misrepresented CART or Typewell by mistake. MY BAD! I am glad to know from a person who has actually experienced both what the truth is. I only know what I have heard from hearies. Again, I apologize, and I will not repeat that again. Thanks for the heads up.

jillio

Its not unusual for a native English speaker to struggle with ASL syntax and grammar. It is natural to try, in the beginning, to come up sith a sign for every word spoken and to arrange those signs in a linear fashion, just as with English. If you keep at itthough, you will reach the point where your brain actually shifts to a visual mode when using ASL, and it will become easier.

And I agree with Bebonang. It is never too late to learn. I am the same age as you, and I am in the second year of completing my Ph.D., having returned to school after raising my son. We nontraditional students bring many assets to the academic world! I applaud you for taking those steps.

dreamchaser

Thanks Jillio for the encouragement. I can't wait until the day comes that I can really enjoy an ASL conversation and not be afraid to misunderstand someone. It is so cool know that I am normal. TEEEEHEEE whatever that is

Cowpuppy

TC= Twin Cities....Minneapolis-St. Paul

dreamchaser

off topic here... LOL,,,ya know where Little Falls is at? Is that FL?

Grummer

TC means Total Crap

ps. whoopee ! i had 351 posts that stands for Ford 351 Cleveland blocks......

Interpretrator

I had a class with one student with a CI who did not sign, another who signed and spoke, and another from a different country who didn't know much ASL so I had to define almost every sign I used.

There is literally no way for one teacher to reach all these students. I signed and spoke but I was ALWAYS missing at least one student and had to repeat almost everything I said in two or three different ways. A one-hour class exhausted the hell out of me.

"Total communication" is a joke unless you have four different teachers using four different modalities in the same classroom. (And that was a joke.)

Cheri

Total Communication is modes of communication for the deaf. I had it during my high school years, and for matter of fact I love that program because it has variety of combinations included sign language, voice, finger-spelling, lipreading, speech therapy, interpreters for mainstream classes and I never needed to rely on written communication when I'm out in the big world.

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jillio

Couldn't agree more. TC is like any other electic approach to anything. Without a strong theroetical foundation, it is a matter of combining so many methods that that teachers and students are left without a base from which to operate. It creates a process totally without direction. Students get a little of this, a little of that, and none of it leads to linguistic or educational competence.

Bi-Bi, on the other hand, integrates the use of 2 separate languages and methods, drawing on the strengths of both, thus providing a strong theoretical foundation from which to operate. There is a big difference between integrating facets of different methodology in a complimentary way and an electic approach that uses bits and pieces without any consideration for the ways in which the different facets work together. As a consequence, TC, as an electic approach, ends up working against itself and providing students and teachers a classroom with a confusing linguistic environment and absolutely no direction.

But that is not surprising, as TC is an outgrowth of the oralist philosophy, and developed without concern for an understanding of the methods it attempts to utilize.

deafbajagal

TC also could mean Totally Confusing (for the students).

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rick48

When we were examining education programs and schools for our daughter we observed several TC programs. In addition to being academically inferior by far to the education she would receive in our local public school, to call them total communication was a joke. The instruction and virtually all the communication was in sign and there was virtually no emphasis placed on providing the students an oral or aural method of communication. We did not just observe the kids our daughter's age but also the kids in their high schools and across the board, these kids had virtually no oral skills. They could not communicate with hearing kids their own age and thus were unable to socially interact with them.

Totally Confusing, probably, Total Waste of Time, without a doubt.
Rick

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Restoring the universe to order will have to wait until next season.

deafdyke

rick, that scenerio can be said about oral-only kids too. Many oral only kids can be hard to understand (espeically if they are speaking to someone who is unfamiliar with "deaf speech) Not to mention that oral kids can (and do) have significent social issues. It's not just ASLer/ TC
kids.

Grummer

I love it when you always backs up the hearing-impaired kids/people DD, becauses tis so true, that bloody deafies tends to forget, or assume hearing impaired are somewhat 'more hearing in so they are a hearie' which is untrue. Deaf and deaf has ALOT more in common than the Deaf propagandists would ever admit...

shel90

I agree! Maybe can be labeled as Totally Confusing for the teachers too!

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~Shel~

shel90