rockdrummer

Looks like a newly formed organization. From what I can find perhaps Feb of 2008 ?? I'm not sure. They have only a few state chapters. Lets set what they are able to accomplish.

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dreamchaser

So, what do you think would be workable? I am just lookin for solutions or at least the start of a solution that will hearing people understand Deaf people better, and some form of communication that keeps the Deaf child included in all aspects of life. I mostly want to stop the prejudices and walls from forming. What is the bi-bi coalition? Is there a central place to help to support them? I realize that there are differences in sign strategy, but I am thinking that for general communication ASL is more than adequate. I don't know about english literacy classes. I am guessing that might take a little SEE. But in general, how can we make our kids become a real part of the schools they go to unless the other kids learn an easy form of communication?

Our Deaf school here in Oregon has an all time low enrollment. There has been talk about shutting it down more than once. I has been moved multiple times, and we just got done fighting the legislature to keep them from combining the Deaf and Blind school for the sake of money. (They really want to get the Blind school site, because it is now a very valuable, (very very valuable) piece of real estate. I don't think these people are gonna quit trying to do away with the school. Every year the parents lose more power over the decisions and programs and staff.

The education board here lean towards mainstreaming everybody. If that happens, I want our kids to not feel like a minority with no way to communicate. The only way I can think of to find a solution is to disect the problems until I understand them well enough to know what might work to facilitate communication for the kids and their peers and teachers. Terps can't do this, and separated classes don't fill the social needs, because the misunderstandings and prejudice will still grow. I think that we need to integrate the hearing kids into the Deaf experience,?????

RoseBud

I think ALL children should be taught ASL. not just children who are Deaf. Question: do people who are deaf resent the idea of hearing people sharing their language and learning about their culture. i would think that they would appreciate it but i have heard from some that this offends some people who are deaf. and i dont understand why. maybe you could answer"

jillio

Yep, newly formed. And since the proposition of bilingual education for deaf students is a relatively new concept, that would make sense.

shel90

Do u know what I tell those Deaf people who get offended about sharing "their" language? I tell them that the more hearing learn ASL, the better and better appreciate it. Either appreciate it or stop complaining about hearing people not knowing sign. However, the number is sooo small..most deaf people love it when hearing people learn ASL or know ASL.

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~Shel~

shel90

It just seems like you didnt have faith cuz you kept questioning it or saying that the results were mixed...just gave me the feeling. I have nothing against that if u dont feel confident in it. If I was in your shoes or wasnt in the field of Deaf ed, maybe I would feel the same way but because I am in it full time and I see the differences between it and the TC programs. Maybe those Deaf people who called it a joke were really in TC programs but thought their programs were BiBi because the BiBi approach is relatively new. If that's the case, then I agree with them about TC approach being a joke. I have seen and worked in TC programs...I wasnt impressed with them at all. Just my opinion. I guess it is because I prefer to stick with pure models of languages not invented systems of each language.

The BiBi movement started around 1993 so we have to wait and see those kids who grew up with it from infant all the way to high school but so far it is looking good. However, the big problem and misunderstandings about them is that so many kids enter these programs at a much much older age after they have been in other kinds of programs only to become language and academically delayed. Unless they are able to catch up after being transferred to the BiBi programs, they are always going to perform years behind their age appropriate levels.

We all have to keep that important factor in mind. It could be the big reason for the mixed results you speak of.

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~Shel~

jillio

Absolutely. That must be considered when looking at results.

dreamchaser

Hey RD, You have been an inspiring voice. Thanks so much for the link.. I read the stuff on the web site, and it appears that they have the same common problem that plagues most organizations that are trying to grow. Most people, Deaf and hearing, aren't aware of what they are about. They also are not aware of AGBELLS law suits and such against programs that are teaching sign. It seems that they could accomplish much if they had enough support and voices from the Deaf community first, and then add the voices of the hearing and the terps and ASL students etc. What do you think it woud take to get folks involved.

jillio

I'm already a member.

Meggie2

Actually I would volunteer. I have American Sign Language class 5th period class. My teacher doesn't sign very well and I have to help her. I was only one have to correct her even though she doesn't like it. I teach ASL at Church and at school when I have time volunteerly.

dreamchaser

Thanks so much for your effort. I try to teach little bits to anyone who will listen,, and they love it... especially the little kids.

I am only in the end of my second year, and I am not really confident in my ability with grammar. I start out in ASL grammar but sometimes switch to PSE in the middle of a story.. I am workin on that... But I help everyone I can with vocab. Next term I may help tutor for the first level classes. Any little bit helps. I think that as kids get older, they will learn the more technical parts of the language structure, but little kids need to at least know things like terms for toilet, and play terms and such to be able to establish a relationship in school... I just think that if they were exposed early enough, they would never develop prejudisms.

But how you do that, I don't know.. I do think that if it was just expected in every school from an early age, it would perpetuate itself. The kids would think it was normal just like brushing their teeth or eating if it were taught everywhere across the country. But some Deaf folks here have enlightened me that it is not so simple as I was hoping. Some think that ASL would get watered down... there are lots of things in this thread that they disagreed with ,, so I don't know if it is a good idea or not.. After all, it is their language.

shel90

I also wanted to add this...

as for mixed results, here is a perfect example....my school is a BiBi program but we got 74 new students in the past 4 years from the mainstreamed program. That is MORE THAN HALF of our student population so of course, the test results are gonna show a larger margin of low literacy scores due to those kids being language delayed from not having full access to language during their younger years. It has nothing to do with the BiBi program...however, I can say this...all of the kids' language and literacy skills have improved dramatically since being referred to our program. None of them have regressed so if they had been with us since toddlers, they would be performing at much much higher levels.

Right now, we have a first and 2nd grade class composed of kids who have been with us since babies and all of them are reading at grade level. One kid is even reading at one grade level above and he is from a hearing family.

Because I see and personally experience this, I believe that the bibi approach is the least riskiest approach of all.

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~Shel~

jillio

Right. The best way to indicate the success is to get a baseline on each student when they enter the Bi-Bi program, and systematically chart progress and improvement.

dreamchaser

What do you think is the biggest barrier to BIBI? Is it money? Teachers, or the oralists?

shel90

I think it is the oralists and the medical community. Doctors are telling families not to put their children in bibi programs...

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~Shel~

dreamchaser

That is what I was afraid of. Do you see why I thought it would be up to the manualists to indtroduce ASL into the lower grades like preschool, to protect them from the oralists?

I wasn't trying to start a controversy. I look at this stupid war, and I realize that people sat back too long and just watched it happen. Now we are all paying the consequences. I realize that ASL is the thrid highest language in America, abut that is at the high school level and above. It does not keep the mainstreamed kids included in the lower grades, and by the time kids get to high school, they usually have already developed their prejudisms or their indifferences.

shel90

The doctors or audiologists are the people the parents of a newly diagnosed deaf baby first meet. The parents are the ones who decide whether their child should be placed in an oral-only program or not and a majority of them listen to the medical professionals' advice more than any other advices. That's why we need to get the advocates to the hospitals as well as the schools. The early intervention team has been unsuccessfully trying to work with the medical community especially those in the implant industry on the benefits of ASL but the doctors wont hear of it. Sometimes I wonder if I should have been an audiologist and worked at the pediatric dept.

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~Shel~

jillio

I would agree with that. As long as we have the so-called experts telling parents that sign is a negative for their child, we will be fighting an uphill battle. We simply have to continue being very vocal about the myths and the inaccurracies that parents are continuing to be told, in spite of all of the evidence tothe contrary.

jillio

We certainly need more audis out there that look at more than pathology.

shel90

If that makes me someone who is "anti-ci" , negative, deaf militant, or whatever, so be it. I dont care. People who speak out are usually hated by a lot of other people...MLK was one example.

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~Shel~

jillio

Absolutely. But he told the truth, and his speaking out led to some much needed changes. I would certainly never put myself in his esteemed category, but he did teach me one thing. If you don't become part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

rockdrummer

Honestly I don't know the answer. What I do know is that it would be a tough road to try to get the public school system to make a change to the majority to suite the minority. I agree with your points on integration but therin lies the crux. Which way is more approproiate to integrate? Should the majority make a change to suite the minority or should the minority make a change to suit the majority.

jillio