violet

Which of you..prefer mouthing to no mouthing while signing...
Like as in moving your lips while signing..
Is it really part of grammar!?

i ask because my current teacher says its some part of grammar
but i dont understand she mouths allllllll the time (but we're not allowed to)
the 4 yrs before this class my other teachers never said no mouthing bc they did it also...
so im sooo confused..
my current teacher gave me an article...
but it was really lame..so i didnt really pay much attention
i wanna know whats the right thing to do!
please and thank you!

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jillio

Are you talking about the mouth morphemes that are a part of ASL grammar, or mouthing English words for the signs?

violet

english words as you sign
i do understand mouth morphemes..i so understand that
but my teacher..does a loooot of english word mouthing as you sign..
is that understandable?

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violet

sorry im horrible at explaining!!!i the way you say it sounds a lot less complicated

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Aleser

The only time I could imagine use in mouthing all English words while signing is if you're speaking to a primarily oral deaf person who only has basic understanding of asl... beyond that O.o

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VamPyroX

I think it should be done together to help improve communication when it comes to signing and lipreading.

What if someone was watching you sign and you signed something that they didn't immediately recognize. By watching you mouth your conversation, they're able to increase their chances of catching what you're trying to say.

I've seen some deaf people who refuse to move their mouth since they believe that mouthing while signing goes against Deaf Culture. When they sign pure ASL without mouthing, I sometimes have a hard time understanding what they're saying.

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shel90

It depends on the individual. Some mouth some English words while signing in ASL and some dont at all.

For me, I think I mouth more when I am signing to someone who is not fluent in ASL.

I think deaf people who grew up without ASL tend to mouth the English words more than the native ASL users. I used to mouth almost all the English words when I first learned ASL until my brother told me that it was messing up with my ASL syntax. Since then, I think I dont mouth them as much.

Also, I noticed when I am upset, angry or tired, I feel myself mouthing English words more which in turn messes up both languages. I think it is cuz English is my first language so I revert back to it subconsicously during stressful situations.

To me, it is not a big deal if someone mouthes or not. Whenever is comfortable or works for each person, works for me.

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RDC_girl

The woman I work with, she mouths all the time, but tells the students not to. It is a matter of understanding in her case. She mouths so the students will understand...

kimpossible

i personally don't like to see people mouth things (preference, i mean). to me it just shows ASL dependency on english when really it is a language of itself and should exist that way. the only times I mouth words while signing are when i'm actually doing total communication and it's not in ASL word order anyways. otherwise i keep my mouth shut.

flip

From my understanding, both mouth gestures and mouthings are accepted as a part of ASL as morphemes, parts of the whole. But if you use the sign for "say", and use the mouthings for "say" or "said" to state two different situations, it's not proper ASL grammars, and in a way, not part of ASL. It's more SEE. ASL have a different way to tell what was said, and what someone is saying right now. ASL borrows from english, and it's not uncommon to use some english there and here when using ASL. I don't think everyone is agreeing on what is ASL grammars and not, but this is how most researchers looks at the role of mouthings in ASL from my understanding.

It's common to be confused by the role of mouthings in ASL, and some people belive mouthings have a unhealthy influence on ASL, as it's a way to borrow too much from another language.

violet

Wow you all gave me great infro!!
i kinda came to that same conclusion on "because shes a teacher shes showing us how to do everything properly"
and the other part about her knowing we all speak english..and didn't grow up with ASL...makes sense

i was kind of really used to it..so its hard for me to stop..im trying here..but apparently she doesn't take trying..she wants it gone completely
and she makes it a point to tell me every time so everyone else in my class ( who haven't taken ASL before laugh) its kind of irritating.
Sometimes i dunno im doing it
and sometimes its not that I'm saying english words..
like the first time she caught me i signed 4 to her..and my lips did some sort of "fo" action it was weird like i didnt totally say F-o-u-r.. and she was like AHH NO! ZIP IT! and i was like huh huh huh????
what did i do???
and she went bananas..
i did explain it to her..i told her id try to work on it...
But what makes me mad is she makes a huge deal about it and
everyone in the class ends up laughing at me!
and not to mention 25 points deducted from my grade every time you "mouth"

but anyway Thank you!! this makes more sense now!

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Chase

Just personal, I never mouth when "talking" ASL with my sister -- except both of us have the habit of mouthing an individual word we fingerspell. In my view and as others have said, mouthing ASL doesn't fit with the grammar.

However, I do mouth when signing SEE to my girlfriend. I dunno, just seems natural to do so.

ScubaladyTx

I like both! Cuz, I grew up with oral til I was 14 yrs old and went to deaf school in New York. I guess that is my habit move lips with signs... There is nothing wrong.

That is not mean that I'm in hearing world! LOL... pfft



M-

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Chase

Hey! I can't see what you're saying, M. Your cool mustache and goatie got in the way.

jillio

Same here. But seems like this teacher is being a bit harsh. If she is mouthing words while signing ASL she is not being grammatically correct, yet she expects her students to be grammatically correct after providing them with a poor example.

Chase

Yup, it's the old "Do as I say, not as I do" idea. Poor teaching philosophy, in my view.

When teaching formal academic writing in class, most of us English teachers ask students not to abbreviate on their papers for learning purposes. Then I think it becomes the teacher's responsibility not to abbreviate on the chalkboard, whiteboard, and when responding on corrected papers.

My student teachers and graduate TAs all whined, "But I don't have time to write it all out."

Sorry. Monkey see, monkey do. Better change your major and go teach math.

jillio

**nodding agreement**

violet

Thats why it makes me mad cuz she does it too!!!
and the students all notice it now that i've made a point of it..
MONKEY SEE MONKEY DO!
what does she expect!ahh grrr!

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ScubaladyTx

LOL! !! Then why dont u shave for me ?




M-

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VamPyroX

I had an interpreter friend at RIT who told me this...

She said that interpreting students are encouraged to not mouth or talk while signing in ASL. The reason for this was to separate English and ASL since both don't follow same grammar structure.

While some skilled interpreters can do both at the same time, it can be difficult when that person is a student or is learning to use ASL. The mind has to think about proper English structure when speaking/mouthing, but also think about proper ASL structure when signing. So, it becomes difficult to sign ASL when you're used to speaking English.

In order to sign ASL well, it's encouraged to not speak or mouth. That way, you can focus only on your signing.

That's what I was told.

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Tousi

I think mouthing is alright. If you're signing in ASL, it doesn't mean you're mouthing in grammatically correct English; you're mouthing in ASL, at least in key junctures. To not mouth at all, most of the time, makes one look like a zombie or something, lol....

SkullChick

What is ASL morphemes???

Do you mean mouthing english word like you speak without being vocal in english grammar structure while signing asl?
Like this *sign* "me go store saw friend chat all night wow real nice see her"
and you mouth this "I went to the store and I saw my friend. So we chatted the whole night and it was really nice to see her"?
How that work out? Because english is much longer than sign unless you're motormouth LOL.

What about expressive mouthing that have no real vocal meaning like "shaaaaa" when signed hit the gas pedal to go very fast?

Well for me I'm weird because I sort of combined mouthing some words I signed and use expressive mouthing for some other too. And when someone signed to me I'll mouth what they signed sometimes so I understand them better.
I don't know if I can really speak because I never use it in public not even with my fiance because I'm extremely shy about using my real voice to talk and when my CI surgeon forced me to speak he wrote down "very good, exceptionally good for your type of hearing loss"
Any tips on how to break the shyness to use my voice to sharpened my oral skills?

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violet

That makes total sense!!!i understand completely now!
but the teacher should still be the example!

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Etoile

Yes, that is it. Mouth morphemes means the special things you do with your mouth to communicate grammar. Like the sign for "fat" is just one sign, but with your mouth and face you can say "just a little fat" or "REALLY REALLY FAT". Also "cha" for big things, etc.

Mouthing means forming English words with your mouth when you sign...different thing from mouth morphemes.

PowerON

umm... *raise my arm*
I sign while use my mouth move with actual voice. *mumble*

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Gemma

Right on - same here - it is a habit. I still need other people to mouth when they sign to me. I can understand interpreters if they mouth as I still rely heavily on lipreading more than on signs themselves.

Etoile

That's not mouthing, that's sim-com! If you're actually speaking when you sign, it's not mouthing. Mouthing is when you don't make sound while you do it.

Tousi