shel90

Yes, and I see that in my field of teaching too often. Way too often and it is a waste of those children's minds.

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Deafness

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shel90

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Secretblend

maybe we ought to say BOO more often.

Grummer

Good to see alot of people here agrees that disabilty is a significant factor as a barrier to assert for d/Deaf people's rights. Now it must be asked what can we do to confront the stubborness of the Deaf politics' parochial nature which is overwhelmingly informed (and controlled) by the Cultural model of deafness. (dont get me wrong sign langauge is very important but it can't advance without broadening the interest in the matter of oppression.

jasin

:stupid:

Which most all deaf people can do without hearing, so you are still wrong.

We can communicate just fine and we dont need our hearing to communicate its only your prespective that we do.

Cheri

Good one!!

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Aleser

Okay, now you're just acting stupid. I said that through hearing aids OR cochlear implants OR speechreading OR ASL, a deaf person can communicate.

Also, I'm a signing deafblind person. But thanks for deciding -my perspective- for -me-.

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"She thinks... she can make people do what she wants or needs, what is right, by the sheer force of her own talent, not by forcing them... she can teach them and persuade them... that they'll catch it from her. This is still faith in their rationality, in the omnipotence of reason. The mistake? Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them."

jasin

Alser, it must be very hard for you being both deaf and blind. I wish you the best in life. I really do. I apologize if I offended you.

You need to understand though, that I am deaf too and I come from my perspective, my own life. I have never needed hearing to communicate I can communicate effectivly with both hearing and deaf people.

jasin

Oh, heck yeah!! I am with you on this one. If people wont respect our right to sign then f*** them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

shel90

Right, it depends on the person. For me, I need my hearing aids to communicate with hearing people but my deaf brother doesnt need them when communicating with hearing people. In fact, he doesnt own one.

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Liebling:-)))

really good one. I really never thought about this when my Dad did like that. I wish do like what you did... really super!!! I will remember your post if my friends have problem with their parents for that...

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Angel

hahaha, good one!

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Matilda

... Beautifully done by getting your message across and hopefully it got through to him once and for all!

Byrdie714

It did!

The neat thing....when I go and visit him at his house, he always turns on the CC's!

Obviously the message was received.

Matilda

... Terrific! so that obviously worked!

ClearSky

Tell them not to speak English.

Bebonang

I remembered when I was in mainstreamed schools (elementary and high school), my deaf classmates and I were told that we were not allowed to use sign language. That was a slap to our faces that we were not allowed to have one. When the principal hired a hearing English teacher who was hailed from a Deaf Institution to work with us, Deafies. We asked him if he can teach us sign language and he told us that he was sorry that no can do because if the principal finds out that he helps us with sign language. He will get fired from his job and we don't want him to get fired. We were so angry and very sad that we were not allowed to sign at all. We tried to protest to have sign language but our method was not working so we gave up. We had to put up with the hearies through the schools years.

Like what Signfrmtheheart had mention in the thread about a Deaf boy who was being discriminated from his mother who does not understand how important to communicate with ASL or any kind of sign language to be able to fully function on understanding what the person said. She expect him to lipread fully and understand people one hundred percent. It is not about making the speech but to the context on trying to understand when people speak to us. Like in mainstreamed school we were not capable of understanding what the teachers and the hearing students said. That is what make us furious. That is why we need the visual sign language like ASL which we are all very happy after we graduated from high school. As for the hearing they get to sign while the Deaf and Hard of Hearing are not permitted to sign because we have to use our voice to speak. How irony is it?

Celticty

My wife does because she doesn't know Sign Language and I am not Deaf. Makes it hard to practice lol. THIS IS WHY I NEED DEAF FRIENDS !!! lol .

Celticty

lol that is funny!!!

Liza

How about this... tell the naysayers that it's a matter of preference in using ASL rather than using voice if you are capable of that too. I think some people need to be educated in that manner.. that ASL isn't a "last resort" thing.

Good one, Brydie.. lol, I should do that.

Shel, that's rather fishy if they don't practice what they preach! Yikes. Lucky you having a deaf brother, though!

Celticty

That is the problem I have with my wife. She doesn't like it because she doesn't understand what I mean. Even though I speak while I sign. So obviously she can understand me.

Bottesini

Careful here Celticty. You are in Jasin's thread. He is very anti-hearie.

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AlleyCat

I absolutely love that. You very clearly made your point! I'll have to remember that.

I can totally relate to that. It has made me want to get up and walk out too. Aside from that, I think the only other place I've been told not to sign is when playing poker at the local casinos. I still have an issue with it even though I'm well aware that the casinos have the right to request we not sign (in accordance with Roberts Rules of Poker in that everyone must speak the same language) but it still upsets me that I can't sign (especially when I am *NOT* playing) because then I basically have to shut up ... Oh well ... I would rather shut up and fume rather than get kicked out of the casinos.

Celticty

Thank you for the warning, I hope that he doesn't see me being a problem.

spikywires

But it sounds like there's a lot of prejudice in deaf culture against hearies...we are people too and we there are a lot of hearing people who understand deaf culture because they grew up with it or know deaf people. I think this bitterness has less to do with how we treat you, but more to do with general hating of people who are different than you.

Bottesini

Or just a lot of experience with how we are treated. Old saying " Walk a mile in my shoes."

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Hermes

I am a hearing person. I agree with you on you should be able to use sign language freely. Nobody should and could tell you to stop.

But there is something I do not understand and I hope you will help me in this. If I wanted to talk to you in person and I do not know sign language , and you can speak, why is it wrong for me ask you to use your voice also? If I do that, why am I insulting you?

I dont get it, because to me if I was hostile to you, if I wanted to insult you, I would totally ignore you instead of trying to communicate with you. I would say he is deaf anyway, who bothers caring what he does, forget about him. So if I take you serious, if I try finding a way to talk to you, and I realize you can speak while I can not use sign language, what is wrong with us having a voice conversation, or at least me asking you?

I am not judging, I really dont see why this is insulting and I would like to understand it.

Hermes

P.s: I read couple messages above somebody saying be carefull jasin is anti hearing. So if its a personal issue, there is no need to argue about it at a personal level. But I hope we can still talk about this in general.

RedFox

Regarding those cases with the mother not wanting her kid using ASL in school and the principal in one poster's school banning sign language, I'd like to see those people get arrested for child abuse.

I've never had anyone directly tell me not to sign. Someone in high school once saw me signing during an afterschool meeting. He just happened to be in the room for unrelated reasons. My sister was there and heard him say that sign language was not real. He wasn't someone I knew and I didn't know about it until my sister told me later. So I didn't do anything about it.

Bebonang

Have you ever heard a Deaf person speak with or without hearing aids talk in a funny voice (high pitched and/or loud voice) and always mispronounced words that are not correct to the hearing ear? Deaf people were made fun of by the way they speak. If you could not understand their sign language, then the only solution is to write down on paper with pen. If the Deaf person could not read the note, then that is the only language that the Deaf person sign if not spoken. Just have to learn to go with the flow. No matter we prefer sign language like ASL, BSL, Auslan or any other sign language because it is visual better than voice. We were discriminated from not having the ASL access to us. They want us to speak in an only oral environment and lipread 24/7.

Hermes

English is not my first language. Now try to imagine me as a teenager in a country where they are talking so fast I can not really pick what they are saying , and also I cant really make them understand what I am saying either. At first because my english was so little and then still my accent was making it difficult. I didnt have a chance of saying pen and paper or sign language please either.

You may not be able to speak well, but nobody can magicly know it right? I should ask you if you can speak right? and you should write down you really can not speak well, then I should say , ok lets keep writing. But if one day we become friends, and if I hear and like your voice, I should say, you should speak more often right? Not because I am ordering it, but friends always say things like that to each other. You paint great, why dont you do more, its a great story you should be a writer, this was a great speach, you should give a speach there too... They do it even when their friend is shy about it. Then you probably will say, no no no I am embaresed. Then I will say, please at least when we are alone, nobody will hear, its our secret.. Then we laugh.. Friends do it you know.

But everything will start with one small step. I will ask you if you can talk, and you will write down you can not do it well. I will take the pen and keep writing.. Story will go on..

I do not see anything wrong in asking it, because asking if you can speak is different than telling you "speak or get lost". So would you get insulted when I ask you if you can speak , or would you just tell me you can not do it well?

Hermes