Do We Need Proper Inglish and Spelling? - Page 3

jazzy · 02-10-2008, 02:24 PM

U know kids come here and read AD, why do u need to use this word?

Berry · 02-10-2008, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzy

U know kids come here and read AD, why do u need to use this word?

Which brings up an interesting question: To what degree are proper English, correct spelling, good manners, and respect for others interconnected?

How much does respect for language and respect for people correlate?

Doug5 · 02-10-2008, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzy

U know kids come here and read AD, why do u need to use this word?

sorry, how do i edit it?

shel90 · 02-10-2008, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug5

sorry, how do i edit it?

I think u can ask the mods to edit it...just send them a PM.

deafbajagal · 02-10-2008, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VamPyroX

I've dealt with the same issue in college. One of my professors had a one-on-one session with her students to talk about a recent paper that was done. When she met with me, she asked me if a tutor, teacher, or parent did my homework or helped me with my homework. I was like, "Eh? No, this is my own writing... in my own words." She was shocked because my writing was better than most of the hearing students. She said that most of the hearing students wrote like they were video gamers or online bloggers.

The same thing happened with my thesis project. My advisor actually thought that I had a lot of help with my writing. The only person that looked at my project was my mentor and she helped me a little. My advisor said that a lot of other students in the program wrote like they were in computer class or speaking in internet lingo.

Sure, I speak in internet lingo or computer language... but only when appropriate. No, I'm not a computer geek or a grammar nazi. I simply do what fits the occasion.

I had a lot of experiences like that- where the professors would assume I had help or someone wrote (transcribed) the papers I had submitted - it totally ticked me off! How can our deaf/hh children be expected to learn proper English if there's an attitude that they can never meet the standards. I've always said, "Students will do exactly what is expected of them."

Hear Again · 02-11-2008, 05:02 AM

I know I'm *really* late coming into this thread, but I wanted to ask a question. Call me clueless, but what is WoW?

omegaman · 02-11-2008, 07:10 AM

wow = world of warcraft. its the biggest online multi-player game.

***VamPyroX*** · 02-11-2008, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

I know I'm *really* late coming into this thread, but I wanted to ask a question. Call me clueless, but what is WoW?

It's a popular MMORPG (massive multiplayer online role-playing game). It's based on the Warcraft series.

Hear Again · 02-11-2008, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VamPyroX

It's a popular MMORPG (massive multiplayer online role-playing game). It's based on the Warcraft series.

Thanks for answering my question Vampy!

Hear Again · 02-11-2008, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omegaman

wow = world of warcraft. its the biggest online multi-player game.

Thank you too omegaman!

Interpretrator · 02-12-2008, 09:42 PM

Just to clarify something...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berry

A school in Oakland decided to treat Ebonics as a second language and it wound up with as much flack as the ones that tried to eliminate it.

What they actually wanted to do was use Ebonics or, more formally, AAVE (African-American Vernacular English, which many linguists agree is a true dialect of English) to teach English as a second language. In other worse, use the language they were using at home to learn formal English. The problem is most laypeople have difficulty understanding that AAVE has its own regular grammatical structures, vocabulary, etc., and isn't just "bad English."

Hmmm, sound like a couple of arguments familiar to the deaf community?

Silentwolfdog · 02-12-2008, 11:40 PM

All I know is that it's hard for me to understand how they speak if they used a different dialect due to the fact that I don't have advantage of hear the similar sounds.

Like for example, I would get very confused when someone said this, "I axed this person..." when she really meant "I asked this person..." (I knew one classmate who speak like this.)
For someone like me, I would get lost in game of puzzle. Trying to figure out what they are saying. Trying to remember that "th" can be replaced with "d" or figuring out what dis or dat means. Ugh!
I would think it wouldn't have been too bad if it has a written system, like English. Then that way I could learn it by treating it like a foreign language like English is to me.
But it seems like they are not made to be written.
Well, I dunno. All I know is that it's hard already to know many ridiculous rules of English, but to have other language that is similar to English but with their own system would make my head spinning.

InnocentOdion · 02-17-2008, 03:56 AM

Whilst I do prefer proper English spelling to "skwl" and "skool" and stuff, I do think English is in dire need of a spelling reform, but not an extreme one where we make the language 100% phonetic or something, because basically, that won't work.

Instead we should be attempting to follow the way of people who speak similar languages; The Germans, the Dutch, Afrikaans, Swedish, Norwegian and more. We should be looking at how to make our language more regular over time as opposed to phonetic.

And, we should all revert from the great vowel shift

Or even use better combinations than grayt or kombineyshnz and kombayn or something, because, well, that looks stupid.

Most people don't want to learn the language all over again, so we could go with slight reforms over time.

One, could be the conversion of "ph" to "f" (because the sound is an F in Greek and in English), [phone->fone, Phobos->Fobos] and maybe the conversion of 'tion' and 'sion' into one, for example 'tsion' or just 'sion', but I'm not sure about 'shon' or 'schon' or 's[c]hen'. Example: emotion -> emotsion/emosion/emoshon, emoschon, emoschen. Emosion looks best, don't you think?

What do you guys think?

***VamPyroX*** · 02-17-2008, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InnocentOdion

Whilst I do prefer proper English spelling to "skwl" and "skool" and stuff, I do think English is in dire need of a spelling reform, but not an extreme one where we make the language 100% phonetic or something, because basically, that won't work.

Instead we should be attempting to follow the way of people who speak similar languages; The Germans, the Dutch, Afrikaans, Swedish, Norwegian and more. We should be looking at how to make our language more regular over time as opposed to phonetic.

And, we should all revert from the great vowel shift

Or even use better combinations than grayt or kombineyshnz and kombayn or something, because, well, that looks stupid.

Most people don't want to learn the language all over again, so we could go with slight reforms over time.

One, could be the conversion of "ph" to "f" (because the sound is an F in Greek and in English), [phone->fone, Phobos->Fobos] and maybe the conversion of 'tion' and 'sion' into one, for example 'tsion' or just 'sion', but I'm not sure about 'shon' or 'schon' or 's[c]hen'. Example: emotion -> emotsion/emosion/emoshon, emoschon, emoschen. Emosion looks best, don't you think?

What do you guys think?

Actually, if we can't even spell out own language... then we shouldn't bother trying to learn other languages. Some cultures take spelling and wording very seriously.

Remember the movie The Last Boy Scout? While trying to alert another car of a bomb, the character wrote "BOM" on a piece of paper in a hurry. He ended up getting shot at. The driver then said, "You were writing 'fuck you' in Polish!"

Another example... even though there's nothing wrong with saying "hi" to your friend named Jack. It's not appropriate to say, "Hi, Jack!" on a crowded airplane.

InnocentOdion · 02-17-2008, 04:43 AM

I don't think we should be learning other languages, only looking at languages which have had successful reforms, especially Germanic languages (English is a Germanic language) since they are closer to us and drawing from their successes. What has made the spelling reform successful?

Doug5 · 02-17-2008, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VamPyroX

Actually, if we can't even spell out own language... then we shouldn't bother trying to learn other languages. Some cultures take spelling and wording very seriously.

Remember the movie The Last Boy Scout? While trying to alert another car of a bomb, the character wrote "BOM" on a piece of paper in a hurry. He ended up getting shot at. The driver then said, "You were writing 'fuck you' in Polish!"

Another example... even though there's nothing wrong with saying "hi" to your friend named Jack. It's not appropriate to say, "Hi, Jack!" on a crowded airplane.

i remember that movie. thats funny. or is it phunny?

***VamPyroX*** · 02-17-2008, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug5

i remember that movie. thats funny. or is it phunny?

Hahaha...

There are some deaf people who don't know that "PH" is pronounced as "F". So, they end up saying "pone", "sopomore", "Josep", etc. If they see someone with a joke T-shirt with something like "PHUCK YOU", they will ask me... "I don't get it. What does puck you mean?"

Silentwolfdog · 02-17-2008, 11:17 PM

One can learn a lot about sounds from being around hearing people, deaf or not.

This is why I have been calling my dog something like this "bur-fee" even though her name is Murphy. I could not say it right so I said it as close as I could. I was told by my family that I could replace "ph" with "f" if I wanted.
Luckily with dogs you can say whatever you want and they will learn to come to you regardless of whether you can speak or not.

I don't think we should reform the language just because someone can't say or spell it right. They have to learn it, just like I have to learn English so I could fit in their world.

Doug5 · 02-18-2008, 11:53 AM

I have the same problem to with some words. Like the name Theresa. Is it pronounced with a T or Th?

Then at work I kept calling a guy Keith but his name was actually Heath. Heath is such an unusual name that I never even though of it.

Chase · 02-18-2008, 12:16 PM

Names give me the most problem when trying to speech-read. I guess I do a lot of guessing for meaning in speech by the context surrounding a word -- and of course names have nothing to do with context.

"Heath" is a good example. It means a scrub bush or a place where scrub plants grow. How the heck does that fit into the sentence? My name "Chase" is no better.

I keep saying names wrong, too. I grew up with Jim, Sue, Larry, and Jane. Now it's Ramojia and Felixandra.

Mix up the strange new names with the trendy new ways to talk, and people may as well be speaking Sanskrit or Vandalic to me. I look at my watch and say, "Where has the time gone? See you later."

GarnetTigerMom · 02-18-2008, 01:03 PM

I know some people and even myself are not 120% perfect with spelling or English but since we were all taugh in schools and college that help us to do better. But I may not have perfect speech, but I would say just pretty good. So, before reading begins, must necessarily be skill in oracy-: i.e., to be able to understand words spoken to them and, even more important, to be able to form and to speak sentences which others will understand. But I know this is different in deaf culture don't need to speak. They can do better with reading, writing and grammar skills.

deafskeptic · 02-18-2008, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silentwolfdog

All I know is that it's hard for me to understand how they speak if they used a different dialect due to the fact that I don't have advantage of hear the similar sounds.

Like for example, I would get very confused when someone said this, "I axed this person..." when she really meant "I asked this person..." (I knew one classmate who speak like this.)
For someone like me, I would get lost in game of puzzle. Trying to figure out what they are saying. Trying to remember that "th" can be replaced with "d" or figuring out what dis or dat means. Ugh!
I would think it wouldn't have been too bad if it has a written system, like English. Then that way I could learn it by treating it like a foreign language like English is to me.
But it seems like they are not made to be written.
Well, I dunno. All I know is that it's hard already to know many ridiculous rules of English, but to have other language that is similar to English but with their own system would make my head spinning.

I'm the same way as you. I have a lot of difficulty with cockney and other accents. I used to know someone who had a very strong Boston accent. She'd say things like I pahked the cah in the pahking lot and I'd interupt this as I packed the car in the packing lot.. What she was saying is this: I parked the car in the parking lot.

Took me a while to get used to it. She didn't think much of my ability to lipread. I just told her I wasn't used to New England accents so I have to remember the how they pronounce things differently.

When accents are spelled the the way they sound, I have a hard time following words in print. I had a hard time with Mark Twain's Huck Finn at first for this reason. To make matters worse, I'm a southerner and I'm told I have a southern accent.

02-10-2008, 02:24 PM	#61 (permalink)
jazzy Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,196	U know kids come here and read AD, why do u need to use this word? __________________

02-11-2008, 05:02 AM	#66 (permalink)
Hear Again Proud Beeper/5150 Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin and my own little manic world... Posts: 7,717	I know I'm really late coming into this thread, but I wanted to ask a question. Call me clueless, but what is WoW? __________________ Left ear - Nucleus 24 Contour Advance with Freedom BTE (Implanted: 12/22/04 \| Activated: 1/18/05) Right ear - Nucleus Freedom (Implanted: 2/1/06 \| Activated: 3/1/06) Deafblind/Postlingual What is bipolar disorder? What are the different types of bipolar disorder? "All things are difficult before they are easy." -- Thomas Fuller

02-11-2008, 07:10 AM	#67 (permalink)
omegaman ambient Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Remember what the doorknob said... Posts: 863	wow = world of warcraft. its the biggest online multi-player game. __________________

02-12-2008, 11:40 PM	#72 (permalink)
Silentwolfdog a toku fangirl Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Earth Posts: 705	All I know is that it's hard for me to understand how they speak if they used a different dialect due to the fact that I don't have advantage of hear the similar sounds. Like for example, I would get very confused when someone said this, "I axed this person..." when she really meant "I asked this person..." (I knew one classmate who speak like this.) For someone like me, I would get lost in game of puzzle. Trying to figure out what they are saying. Trying to remember that "th" can be replaced with "d" or figuring out what dis or dat means. Ugh! I would think it wouldn't have been too bad if it has a written system, like English. Then that way I could learn it by treating it like a foreign language like English is to me. But it seems like they are not made to be written. Well, I dunno. All I know is that it's hard already to know many ridiculous rules of English, but to have other language that is similar to English but with their own system would make my head spinning. __________________ If you are using red or blue font, there's a good chance that I am not reading your posts due to it being blended into background! I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night. ~Sarah William Check my art at http://silentwolfdog.deviantart.com

02-17-2008, 11:17 PM	#78 (permalink)
Silentwolfdog a toku fangirl Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Earth Posts: 705	One can learn a lot about sounds from being around hearing people, deaf or not. This is why I have been calling my dog something like this "bur-fee" even though her name is Murphy. I could not say it right so I said it as close as I could. I was told by my family that I could replace "ph" with "f" if I wanted. Luckily with dogs you can say whatever you want and they will learn to come to you regardless of whether you can speak or not. I don't think we should reform the language just because someone can't say or spell it right. They have to learn it, just like I have to learn English so I could fit in their world. __________________ If you are using red or blue font, there's a good chance that I am not reading your posts due to it being blended into background! I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night. ~Sarah William Check my art at http://silentwolfdog.deviantart.com

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02-17-2008, 03:56 AM	#73 (permalink)
InnocentOdion HOH and learnin' sign! Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: England, United Kingdom Posts: 180	Whilst I do prefer proper English spelling to "skwl" and "skool" and stuff, I do think English is in dire need of a spelling reform, but not an extreme one where we make the language 100% phonetic or something, because basically, that won't work. Instead we should be attempting to follow the way of people who speak similar languages; The Germans, the Dutch, Afrikaans, Swedish, Norwegian and more. We should be looking at how to make our language more regular over time as opposed to phonetic. And, we should all revert from the great vowel shift Or even use better combinations than grayt or kombineyshnz and kombayn or something, because, well, that looks stupid. Most people don't want to learn the language all over again, so we could go with slight reforms over time. One, could be the conversion of "ph" to "f" (because the sound is an F in Greek and in English), [phone->fone, Phobos->Fobos] and maybe the conversion of 'tion' and 'sion' into one, for example 'tsion' or just 'sion', but I'm not sure about 'shon' or 'schon' or 's[c]hen'. Example: emotion -> emotsion/emosion/emoshon, emoschon, emoschen. Emosion looks best, don't you think? What do you guys think?

02-17-2008, 04:43 AM	#75 (permalink)
InnocentOdion HOH and learnin' sign! Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: England, United Kingdom Posts: 180	I don't think we should be learning other languages, only looking at languages which have had successful reforms, especially Germanic languages (English is a Germanic language) since they are closer to us and drawing from their successes. What has made the spelling reform successful?

02-18-2008, 11:53 AM	#79 (permalink)
Doug5 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 227	I have the same problem to with some words. Like the name Theresa. Is it pronounced with a T or Th? Then at work I kept calling a guy Keith but his name was actually Heath. Heath is such an unusual name that I never even though of it.

02-18-2008, 12:16 PM	#80 (permalink)
Chase Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,316	Names give me the most problem when trying to speech-read. I guess I do a lot of guessing for meaning in speech by the context surrounding a word -- and of course names have nothing to do with context. "Heath" is a good example. It means a scrub bush or a place where scrub plants grow. How the heck does that fit into the sentence? My name "Chase" is no better. I keep saying names wrong, too. I grew up with Jim, Sue, Larry, and Jane. Now it's Ramojia and Felixandra. Mix up the strange new names with the trendy new ways to talk, and people may as well be speaking Sanskrit or Vandalic to me. I look at my watch and say, "Where has the time gone? See you later."

02-18-2008, 01:03 PM	#81 (permalink)
GarnetTigerMom Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 4,900	I know some people and even myself are not 120% perfect with spelling or English but since we were all taugh in schools and college that help us to do better. But I may not have perfect speech, but I would say just pretty good. So, before reading begins, must necessarily be skill in oracy-: i.e., to be able to understand words spoken to them and, even more important, to be able to form and to speak sentences which others will understand. But I know this is different in deaf culture don't need to speak. They can do better with reading, writing and grammar skills. __________________ GarnetTigerMom "The rain may be falling hard outside, But your smile makes it all alright. I'm so glad that you're my friend. I know our friendship will never end." -- Robert Alan

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