Do We Need Proper Inglish and Spelling? - Page 2

deafskeptic · 02-09-2008, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug5

ha, grammar nazis. I misspell werds on purpose just to piss em off

my fav is skool

LOL, my 10 grade Deaf English teacher was the same way as you. She'd use improper English on purpose.

shel90 · 02-09-2008, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

Nods, I'm the same way myself. I'll read things even if they're a challenge for me. My father and I used to fight over me reading books that he thought were too hard for me. I think Jame Joyce's book Ulysses is a challenge for me.

I remember reading Moby Dick years go and he said the book is very complex. He didn't think I understood it. I said I did understand it but sometimes I have to reread the book to pick up on stuff I missed the first time around. The last time I visited my family I read part of War and Peace. I must confess I didn't finish it.

When I came over last summer, I read Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. I remember thinking that his book prolly didn't go over well with Christians.

My dad said to me he couldn't understand why I'd read a such a dull book. I don't think history is dull to me. Granted, I'd prefer more recent editions but that's what I had to read at my parents home.

He keeps telling me that most people are into TV and MTV and that I'm too much the intellectaul when it comes to cartoons. I take it he's never read Doonsbury (I don't read doonsbury) or other comics like Neil Gaiman's Sandman series.

Honestly, I would love to be an intellectual like you and I am trying to read more intellectual books.

When I was younger, I read complex books but puberty hit me and I got into MTV, boys, fashion and all the pop culture stuff.

Maybe I should buy those books you mentioned and see if I get the hang of it!

Silentwolfdog · 02-09-2008, 04:25 PM

Heh, try to read the book "The Man in the Iron Mask." I never got to finish that book. Whew! It was tough when I tried to read it when I was a younger. I guess I can give it a try, now that I am older.

Interpretrator · 02-09-2008, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berry

What amazes me is that every poster, no matter how diametrically opposed to other posters: Has at least one good, solid, point to make.

Sorry I can't agree with you there.

JClarke · 02-09-2008, 05:03 PM

Who to blame of the future of english vocab, is it not?

Doug5 · 02-09-2008, 05:55 PM

the mistake is assuming that those speak "proper inglish" is more intelligent or more educated than those who dont

jasin · 02-09-2008, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I hope that you're being facetious.

lol

GarnetTigerMom · 02-09-2008, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VamPyroX

It's all because of the "No Child Left Behind" crap.

Seriously, people are becoming too flexible with how kids are taught.

When I do emails or post in the forums, I type with the best grammar and spelling as I can (with a few exceptions like "cuz" instead of "because"). Other than that, I use slang because I'm speedtyping... on AIM, etc.

When my parents use their cell phones to send me text messages, it's difficult for them to do it with proper spelling or grammar. So, they use abbreviations. 1 out of 50 times, I'll have to think for a moment to figure out what they're trying to say... other than that, they do just fine.

Yeah, I agree with you 110%. I do extacly the same thing too.

GarnetTigerMom · 02-09-2008, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silentwolfdog

Heh, try to read the book "The Man in the Iron Mask." I never got to finish that book. Whew! It was tough when I tried to read it when I was a younger. I guess I can give it a try, now that I am older.

Ah, yes. I remember I seen the movie about it. It a good movie. I remember the original movie and the book the " The Man in the Iron Mask" was a damn good book.

Berry · 02-09-2008, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silentwolfdog

I mean, it does not make sense doing the task without understanding "why." Geez, I even remembered one time dorm supervisor told me to stop asking "why" in each of my question, but to ask "what." I was stunned at her such attitude. That's the attitude they have shown me, you are better off not asking or try to understand. I am still pissed off at that situation. She was lucky that it does not destroyed my curiosity still.

Now I got a urge to go and read the book, for some reason.

I used to say the only thing I ever learned in school was also the last time I ever asked a teacher a question: Her reply was to tell the class, "Oscar Wilde once said a fool can ask more questions in five minutes than a wise man can answer in a lifetime."

When I repeated that to a friend on mine in a college cafeteria a professor stood up and said, "It was not Oscar Wilde who said that."

So now I know the only thing I ever learned in school was wrong.

And I still don't know who said it.

omegaman · 02-10-2008, 12:33 AM

Thats a Chinese saying

***VamPyroX*** · 02-10-2008, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

Nods. When I post I will correct my grammar if not always my spelling (I'm really bad at spelling) but when I'm using IMs or playing WoW, it's harder for me to edit my grammar in chat. Most people don't call on it even when I leave out ings when it's needed.

Once some grammar nazi in my guild at WoW kept correcting other hearing's grammar and I typed rolls her eyes at grammar nazi. He pounced on my grammatical errors and told me in guild chat he couldn't believe I would make such an error. I put him on ignore and one hearing person told me hell nobody uses correct grammar in chat so who cares? I don't need some hearing @$$ making fun of my grammar after all the work I spent on my English skills. I get As in English even when I'm the only deaf in that class. So there.

I've dealt with the same issue in college. One of my professors had a one-on-one session with her students to talk about a recent paper that was done. When she met with me, she asked me if a tutor, teacher, or parent did my homework or helped me with my homework. I was like, "Eh? No, this is my own writing... in my own words." She was shocked because my writing was better than most of the hearing students. She said that most of the hearing students wrote like they were video gamers or online bloggers.

The same thing happened with my thesis project. My advisor actually thought that I had a lot of help with my writing. The only person that looked at my project was my mentor and she helped me a little. My advisor said that a lot of other students in the program wrote like they were in computer class or speaking in internet lingo.

Sure, I speak in internet lingo or computer language... but only when appropriate. No, I'm not a computer geek or a grammar nazi. I simply do what fits the occasion.

deafskeptic · 02-10-2008, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VamPyroX

I've dealt with the same issue in college. One of my professors had a one-on-one session with her students to talk about a recent paper that was done. When she met with me, she asked me if a tutor, teacher, or parent did my homework or helped me with my homework. I was like, "Eh? No, this is my own writing... in my own words." She was shocked because my writing was better than most of the hearing students. She said that most of the hearing students wrote like they were video gamers or online bloggers.

]The same thing happened with my thesis project. My advisor actually thought that I had a lot of help with my writing. The only person that looked at my project was my mentor and she helped me a little. My advisor said that a lot of other students in the program wrote like they were in computer class or speaking in internet lingo.

Sure, I speak in internet lingo or computer language... but only when appropriate. No, I'm not a computer geek or a grammar nazi. I simply do what fits the occasion.

Oh yeah, I can relate to that. Many late deafened adults have a hard time believing that I'm actually a prelingual when they see how well I write. All they have to do is ask me about the contents of songs that were popular in the 80's and I'm BUSTED big time if I should try to pass myself off as late deafened.

lumbingmi · 02-10-2008, 02:02 AM

I think OP is confusing with informal and formal setting. Sure you can talk anything what you want but if you are not making any sense , then you need to correct your grammar in order to have anyone to understand what you are saying. ASL is dialect language rather than written language so it is useless to criticize one person's grammar if he or she is signing. As for writing, I think it is really important to have good grammar skills to show the audience that you have high command of English or any other language to get your point across.

lumbingmi · 02-10-2008, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omegaman

Thats a Chinese saying

???

deafdyke · 02-10-2008, 02:20 AM

Spelling, I'm not too big of a Nazi on. However, grammar and syntax I am ANAL about. It's not THAT hard to express yourself when you write. People who can't express themselves too well in writing, just look......uneducated. And not MR style uneducated.......more like "HELLO! Use your BRAIN!" uneducated

Silentwolfdog · 02-10-2008, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumbingmi

???

I think he is referring to Chinese proverb for "Oscar Wilde once said a fool can ask more questions in five minutes than a wise man can answer in a lifetime."

He is saying that it's not "Oscar Wilde" who said it, but a Chinese proverb.

It doesn't make a sense after I googled for a bit.

Here's what I have found.

Chinese proverb: He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever.

Charles Caleb Colton: Examinations are formidable even to the best prepared, for the greatest fool may ask more than the wisest man can answer.

Sorry, I always like to listen to proverbs or wise quotes so I checked around a bit.

lumbingmi · 02-10-2008, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silentwolfdog

I think he is referring to Chinese proverb for "Oscar Wilde once said a fool can ask more questions in five minutes than a wise man can answer in a lifetime."

He is saying that it's not "Oscar Wilde" who said it, but a Chinese proverb.

It doesn't make a sense after I googled for a bit.

Here's what I have found.

Chinese proverb: He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever.

Charles Caleb Colton: Examinations are formidable even to the best prepared, for the greatest fool may ask more than the wisest man can answer.

Sorry, I always like to listen to proverbs or wise quotes so I checked around a bit.

Thanks for your efforts but these are irrelevant to this thread.

Silentwolfdog · 02-10-2008, 04:06 AM

Ah, I apologize for going off topic. ^^;

lumbingmi · 02-10-2008, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silentwolfdog

Ah, I apologize for going off topic. ^^;

No problem

BTW - it is fool for person to not be able to tell the difference between written and dialect form.

omegaman · 02-10-2008, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silentwolfdog

I think he is referring to Chinese proverb for "Oscar Wilde once said a fool can ask more questions in five minutes than a wise man can answer in a lifetime."

Sorry for not quoting and causing confusion.

lumbingmi · 02-10-2008, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omegaman

Sorry for not quoting and causing confusion.

Kalista · 02-10-2008, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug5

I have heard that too. English teachers getting all into a tizzy about that.

Well nowadays, we use so much text message on AIM, YIM or Email.

WTF, BRB, LOL, TMI, etc... I admitted that I use alot of abbreviations on my sidekick3 especially on the cell phone correspondence with my two sons and their girlfriends. We used alot of abbreivations because of no room on their cell phones.

We become a bad habit.

Chase · 02-10-2008, 10:45 AM

What Barry described is called "levels of diction" in literature. Everyone who speaks or writes any language can use more than one level. The more education, experience, or interest in language, the more levels of diction may be used effectively. Here are a few levels of diction with examples of saying the same thing in different words:

1. Euphonic. Professional-to-professional language. Poetic, educated, flowery.
Edward tends toward ambiguity when conversing among peers, with probable motive to confound rather than elucidate.

2. Standard. A language understood by most people of a nation. The speech of national newscasters is an example.
Edward is purposefully vague when speaking to friends to keep them confused.

3. Colloquial. A language particular to a nation. Most colloquialisms cannot be literally translated. For example, “She split her sides laughing” really means “She laughed heartily.” Every language has an adverb meaning "suddenly," but in English the colloquial "all of a sudden" means the same thing."
Eddie is so full of it that his buddies get all mixed up.

4. Slang. Often the language of a region, ethnic culture, or special group, slang is ever- changing, slipping from gibberish to colloquial.
ed’s uber random, u no, n were all like wtf????????

5. Nonstandard Formerly "substandard." The language is uneducated and often obtuse.
Me and Ed dont talk no more, aint no easy, him.

6. Vulgar. Expletives abound:
Fucker talks shit.

7. Gibberish. As with some slang, gobbledegook is meaningless without the code book.
Whoa! Dude! Like, ROFL.

Slang and gobbledegook are nothing new. Right after the first cavemen made up a term so everyone could work together, their kids made slang and gobbledegook out of the term to be cool. It doesn't shake up as many people as the youngsters imagine.

shel90 · 02-10-2008, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chase

What Barry described is called "levels of diction" in literature. Everyone who speaks or writes any language can use more than one level. The more education, experience, or interest in language, the more levels of diction may be used effectively. Here are a few levels of diction with examples of saying the same thing in different words:

1. Euphonic. Professional-to-professional language. Poetic, educated, flowery.
Edward tends toward ambiguity when conversing among peers, with probable motive to confound rather than elucidate.

2. Standard. A language understood by most people of a nation. The speech of national newscasters is an example.
Edward is purposefully vague when speaking to friends to keep them confused.

3. Colloquial. A language particular to a nation. Most colloquialisms cannot be literally translated. For example, “She split her sides laughing” really means “She laughed heartily.” Every language has an adverb meaning "suddenly," but in English the colloquial "all of a sudden" means the same thing."
Eddie is so full of it that his buddies get all mixed up.

4. Slang. Often the language of a region, ethnic culture, or special group, slang is ever- changing, slipping from gibberish to colloquial.
ed’s uber random, u no, n were all like wtf????????

5. Nonstandard Formerly "substandard." The language is uneducated and often obtuse.
Me and Ed dont talk no more, aint no easy, him.

6. Vulgar. Expletives abound:
Fucker talks shit.

7. Gibberish. As with some slang, gobbledegook is meaningless without the code book.
Whoa! Dude! Like, ROFL.

Slang and gobbledegook are nothing new. Right after the first cavemen made up a term so everyone could work together, their kids made slang and gobbledegook

02-09-2008, 04:25 PM	#33 (permalink)
Silentwolfdog a toku fangirl Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Earth Posts: 705	Heh, try to read the book "The Man in the Iron Mask." I never got to finish that book. Whew! It was tough when I tried to read it when I was a younger. I guess I can give it a try, now that I am older. __________________ If you are using red or blue font, there's a good chance that I am not reading your posts due to it being blended into background! I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night. ~Sarah William Check my art at http://silentwolfdog.deviantart.com

02-09-2008, 05:03 PM	#35 (permalink)
JClarke AD addict Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Down Under Posts: 14,328 Blog Entries: 4	Who to blame of the future of english vocab, is it not? __________________

02-10-2008, 12:33 AM	#41 (permalink)
omegaman ambient Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Remember what the doorknob said... Posts: 863	Thats a Chinese saying __________________

02-10-2008, 02:02 AM	#44 (permalink)
lumbingmi Invigorated Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 4,263	I think OP is confusing with informal and formal setting. Sure you can talk anything what you want but if you are not making any sense , then you need to correct your grammar in order to have anyone to understand what you are saying. ASL is dialect language rather than written language so it is useless to criticize one person's grammar if he or she is signing. As for writing, I think it is really important to have good grammar skills to show the audience that you have high command of English or any other language to get your point across. __________________ Picard: Seize the time, Meribor, live now. Make now always the most precious time. Now will never come again. Meribor: I love you, father.

02-10-2008, 04:06 AM	#49 (permalink)
Silentwolfdog a toku fangirl Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Earth Posts: 705	Ah, I apologize for going off topic. ^^; __________________ If you are using red or blue font, there's a good chance that I am not reading your posts due to it being blended into background! I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night. ~Sarah William Check my art at http://silentwolfdog.deviantart.com

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02-09-2008, 05:55 PM	#36 (permalink)
Doug5 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 227	the mistake is assuming that those speak "proper inglish" is more intelligent or more educated than those who dont

02-10-2008, 02:20 AM	#46 (permalink)
deafdyke So NOT a Princess! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Trebekistan Posts: 6,685	Spelling, I'm not too big of a Nazi on. However, grammar and syntax I am ANAL about. It's not THAT hard to express yourself when you write. People who can't express themselves too well in writing, just look......uneducated. And not MR style uneducated.......more like "HELLO! Use your BRAIN!" uneducated

02-10-2008, 10:45 AM	#54 (permalink)
Chase Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,316	What Barry described is called "levels of diction" in literature. Everyone who speaks or writes any language can use more than one level. The more education, experience, or interest in language, the more levels of diction may be used effectively. Here are a few levels of diction with examples of saying the same thing in different words: 1. Euphonic. Professional-to-professional language. Poetic, educated, flowery. *Edward tends toward ambiguity when conversing among peers, with probable motive to confound rather than elucidate.* 2. Standard. A language understood by most people of a nation. The speech of national newscasters is an example. *Edward is purposefully vague when speaking to friends to keep them confused.* 3. Colloquial. A language particular to a nation. Most colloquialisms cannot be literally translated. For example, “She split her sides laughing” really means “She laughed heartily.” Every language has an adverb meaning "suddenly," but in English the colloquial "all of a sudden" means the same thing." Eddie is so full of it that his buddies get all mixed up. 4. Slang. Often the language of a region, ethnic culture, or special group, slang is ever- changing, slipping from gibberish to colloquial. ed’s uber random, u no, n were all like wtf???????? 5. Nonstandard Formerly "substandard." The language is uneducated and often obtuse. *Me and Ed dont talk no more, aint no easy, him. 6. Vulgar.* Expletives abound: Fucker talks shit. 7. Gibberish. As with some slang, gobbledegook is meaningless without the code book. Whoa! Dude! Like, ROFL. Slang and gobbledegook are nothing new. Right after the first cavemen made up a term so everyone could work together, their kids made slang and gobbledegook out of the term to be cool. It doesn't shake up as many people as the youngsters imagine.