Grummer

Hi, just been wondering how many of you out there, have a 'blurred childhood' which may be brought on about from the delayed language acquistion and stunted socialisation?

I have experienced this, and it sometimes angers me that, this 'real' childhood is 'stolen' for all the hearing people's convenience.

Hope to receive comments or shared beliefs which would bring it 'out in the open' about the reality of just how oppressive mainstreaming actually is/was.

cheers
Grum

Deafness

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shel90

My childhood being mainstreamed sucked...I do remember a lot of it though. Just mostly remember trying to keep up with everyone else constantly both in the classrooms and on the playground.

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jillio

Sadly, it might be easier if you couldn't remember it.

deafskeptic

Those are my memories as well. I always felt like I was on an endless thread mill to catch up with others.

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Buffalo

Endless treadmill. That is a good way to describe that feeling.

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Mizzou

My memories are good and bad being in mainstreamed.

Good childhood memories that I had share with.
Bad childhood memories that I had hard time with.

GarnetTigerMom

Well, I did pretty well in public school and did great with the education. Some of it good some of it bad. But mostly good since I had a very good education that what counts. But when I decided to try a deaf school, it was a little bit of a culture shock, just the commucations difference but it was worth it to go.

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GarnetTigerMom

"The rain may be falling hard outside,
But your smile makes it all alright.
I'm so glad that you're my friend.
I know our friendship will never end."
-- Robert Alan

shel90

I am glad that I remember it so I can have empathy for the kids who go thru the same thing.

However, my memories with my dad taking us camping and stuff, playing sports, and some with friends are pretty good.

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~Shel~

Grummer

Hi All, thanks for some bumping and sharing its great. Hmmm, well, ok some childhood memories said to be good, but i wanted something abit more substantial to point out at just how difficult has it been. I mean like, if we all keep saying our mainstreamed childhood wasnt so bad, and yet 'we against mainstream' we would be weakening the arguement - this is what i want us to avoid. Put formal education aside, yes it is a struggle, what about the personal, social side of life, the nitty gritty bit that is supposed to be about inclusion as a person (and personhood in growth?)
What about the real impact on social learning, the alienation? (deaf kids experience it alot on a daily basis but because the environment, (family, teachers, even some 'kind' classmates all contribute to deny the existence of the alienation. I think most of us had been powerless for a long time, perhaps so much that we dont even know that we were.

Some of you might think I am suggesting we're been indoctrinated to be 'normal' even felt normal, until say which a turning point might be when you were 17 or 21 years old, or even 30! to 'finally' noticed you were truely dont fit in the hearing world (nor even the deaf world, as part of the side effects, or directs effects from deafism, even audism). I trying to hope to extract some fresh comments, for instance I very much like the choice of words such as Deafskeptic's 'endless thread mill' and would like some elaboration on that. Buffulo said it was a feeling, yes indeed, lets spell out our real feelings, and trying not to be harsh here, I really really appreciated anyfeedbacks, better than none at all. Saying mainstream wasnt so bad doesnt help out causes (even if it was true), and perhap some of us might have own ideas of how mainstreaming might be reconstructed, these suggestions are welcome too, just though all im saying try avoid to unwittingly condone what the hearing people systems did to us. Accounts of experiences are are not exactly what I'm hoping for, but description and some hard reckoning.

Once again though, thanks !!!

Doug5

I did good academically but socially felt like an outcast. I dont blame it all on the hoh, my family seems socially awkward, or shy.

Thing i hated the most was the other kids making fun of my deaf accent. made me dread public speaking.

Mizzou

I was in girl scout and go out to camping with all hearing. I did well with them and played softball league, too. I did well with them but hard time are "not hear" or "miss anything important".

Bebonang

I was mainstream in both elementary and high school. I hate being in an oral only environment. I had to learn to speak with a speech therapist and also learn how to lipread. I like special education classroom better than regular hearing classroom, but it is still oral anyway in special ed. I don't want to think about my former mainstream schools. My sister, who is hearing, was a straight A student. I always get a D or almost fail because I had a hard time understanding in the hearing regular classroom, no interpreters. That was way back in the 1954 to 1966 in both elementary and high schools. In high school my Deaf friends and I want to learn sign language (English sign language, at the time) before ASL was founded. We begged and protested to our principal of the mainstream high school, but he refuse because he thought that sign language is very bad and not right to have us learn sign language in school. He even hired a special education teacher who taught us about history and literature from the Deaf School in Faribault, Minnesota. We were so excited about having him teach us the sign language, but he said no. He told us that he can not teach us to sign as he was forbidden or he could lost his job. We were upset about forbidden this special education teacher. That is why I blame my mom and dad for putting me in that schools, just because they thought I can talk and lipread, which is true but not perfect. All through the mainsream schools I had a very frustrating and hard time and I don't like them at all.

deafbajagal

I had to have counseling/therapy when I became an adult because my childhood memories were jigsawed and basically all mixed up... and I wanted to know what was that all about. She had suggested that a lot of the blurry/jigsawed memory problems occured because I didn't really understand a lot of what was going on around me, thus the memories that I did manage to retain were only part of the whole picture. There are so many incidents that I remember - and really wish I could ask people in the memories - such as asking one cousin, "Why were you laughing when you sat in that rocking chair?" Weird things like that. I actually have very strong memory skills- I can remember very detailed things such as the exact wood pattern on my parents' sofa - from 15 years ago. But important events in my life such as birthday parties - there are only bits and pieces. Weird, huh?

Cheri

I have been mainstreamed all my life until graduated. I've had some good memories and also bad memories.

Being an oralist was the most hardest part, however in my case not alot of teachers realized there's a deaf student in the classroom, sometimes they intend to forget. the teacher turned her/his back and talked then I couldn't read the teacher's lips. There are times I've also may tried figured out which word the teacher had said. I would fall behind on school work because I spend so much time focus on the lip-reading than writing. I've felt that I wasn't getting the equal education as those other hearing students. those hearing students who can listen with their ears, I would have to listen with my eyes. It's not the same.

I personally prefer the choice of both (sign and speech) When I got into high school I was mainsteamed in Total Communication, those years have been the best years of my life. I was understood for the first time ever, I eventually had the time to write because I would be caught up with the interpter's signs better I didn't even miss a lot of information than I did with the teachers I had back when I was mainstreamed in oral program. I found this method more effective for me. I wish I had Total Communication from the start, but it did not happen that way.

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Grummer

Yeah its weird, I have bits and peices too, I really wish I could ask some people, but then some of these people have ceased, or drifted off completely like my parents have no longer connection with them, people move on and such, it can be slightly irratating that there'd be questions never answered, even for tiny silly details like "why did you say that, or did you tell me this when I was little?"

I'm not surpised at all when you mentioned remembering things like patterns, I have that similar fascination too especially with remembering the vinyl floor patterns or the bathroom glass windows in the 1970's.
In a way it was comforting and I admit I missed some fo those patterns, the nice orangey, or brown coloured paterns on those 70's wallpapers and in a quirky way it remained me of seasame street' "counting" animations that wowed me alot LOL - wierd ?! yes so having said that now I think I know what you mean by saying 'weird' nods.......

We could say our memories are too weird, its not 'normal' that this sort of confusion arent healthy nor helping the social and personal growth we needed.
I can hardly remember things like if a kid was laughing on the chair, but i do old 'earliest school classmates' and their play-time/ground talks about the "six million dollar man' on tv, or Logan's Run Tv series as we'd take turn to imitate these characters in the playground, - but all the while I would not KNOW anything of what they TALKED about like the 'dialouges' which the kids would 'repeat' or imitate, becuase i was deaf, i just only heard some blip ' or laser gun noises' we all imitiated that ofc but the more -harder to pick out voices,(and cartoons are impossible to lipread ofc!) im completely lost, i recall qutie vividly one day, that about when i was 7 or 8 years old (in a group of classmate some how go together at a long lunchtime (1 hr seemed a long time when you're small) we decided to play The Flintstones (while I knew Fred flintstone but had no idea who was Barney Rumble was,i was asked to Play him, I was dumbstruck as I didnt know how Barney would talk (he was a quite character in the show) and did found out about 6 months later when Flintstone was aired again) However, that playground incident was kind of sour and not much fun and i did recall the bell rang ('being saved by the bell" !!) but still i was left wondering who was Barney and felt stink that i didnt play well, kind of spoiled the fun. When I was much older, like 20 years later or so, yes that long! I just didnt think about it untill, like "oh geezz" it was embarrassing) but at the time i was perplexed as well as ignorant, but felt dumb yet was happy to be playing with that 'dream girl' of the classroom of the day lol, so much that i didnt realise I was looked an idiot. hell i didnt even know how I got through it. But what pains me is that these sort of thing have lasting effects on just ourselves but also the way hearing children perceives us (and their parents). it is needless and quite damaging even in subtle ways, like the complete lack of leadership role , or loooking stupid (even when I was completely unware of that), which these hearing kids really got the idea of, or group interaction while being deaf, we got zip, nothing at all, only parroting and following, i think its cruel.

jillio

You have a very good point there, shel.

SkullChick

I grew up mainstreamed and I always get way ahead of everyone in my classes never have any language or educational delayed so I did fine and turned out fine, only reason I don't have much friends is because I was really shy growing up but after high school I became more outgoing so I get along with everyone no problem but friendship almost never stick but that's normal everyone have that too right? Well I'm totally fine except when I lost rest of my hearing that's when social became something I avoid much s possible but I'll get CI activated soon so I'll go back to what I used to be (hoh person) so I'll get my life and social back that's it

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jillio

Not weird at all. You obviously have strong memories of visual components of past events. Its the auditory information that escaped you. I agree with your counselor. Your memories are jigsawed because you were not able to get a complete picture. But you do seem to have vivid visual memories, which just goes to show that it is not a problem with you, but a problem with the environment that didn't meet your needs.

deafdyke

YES indeedy!
.........For me my mainstream issues were NOT due to language delays. Matter of fact, Ive always tested very high for language, even for a hearing person.
That said, I always had HUGE issues with social problems and alienation. I remmy when I was in elementary I thought I was the only kid in the entire world who wore hearing aids. I never quite felt like I fit in. And, orgs like AG Bad do not understand how much that can effect a kid's self esteem. I mean god.........even today I still have to deal with the prejudice of people who think I'm MR or "homeless person weird" b/c of my voice. Oral skills and mainstreaming are a good tool, but they shouldn't be the only option in the back. Just b/c some kids have thrived orally (both academicly and socially) in the mainstream it doesn't mean that ALL dhh kids will be able to do well.

Grummer

Jillio you said it well here, that is about the environment as not fitting to our (deaf/Deaf children/adults) needs...in " But you do seem to have vivid visual memories, which just goes to show that it is not a problem with you, but a problem with the environment that didn't meet your needs.", , like Exactly !! that's the sort of issues which should be highlighted in future more extensivly, imo , language is important but its not enough, its about time to discuss about what do we mean by what is the appropriate environment to include deaf people to the '[alternate] manistream environment. This 'mainstream environment' i speak of, is not he same as "mainstreaming" as we know it today per se, an environment which (not dont use 'minimise' - i hatwe that word, its so too much as a veiled 'cop-out' for policy-making. I 'd prefer to see " to ensure an inclusive environment - that is a more positive and pro-active approach than the 'hazard management' method of dealing with changing the environment.

Deafdyke, Even though I was in the deaf unit with another 20 deaf pupils in the early primary school, I too 'felt' I was the only one wearing hearing aids (was in the hearing classroom for an increasing portion of the day as I progressed through Primary schooling) but I never felt completely accepted, always felt I was on the outside. I admit thats strange to think like that, but I guess I did because I 'knew' being deaf is different and as I 'understood' it's like having a crippled ear nevertheless I strived on the forever game of 'catching up'.
Could you elaborate on how it affected the self-esteem?

Cheers

jillio

Thank you, Grummer. I agree...inclusion means far more than simply placing in a mainstream environment. That is something that we seem to have trouble getting the majority to understand.

shel90

Could it be that deaf children dont show signs nor recognize the signs that they are not getting equal access in the mainstreamed setting? Too often teachers, parents, and even counselors see the deaf children sitting in the classroom looking like they are understanding everything that is happening around them when it is not true.

I learned so many tricks to hide the fact that I barely understood anything most of the time.

As I got older, I realized that I wasnt getting equal access but by then my self-esteem was so damaged that I was afraid to speak up and I also blamed myself for not trying hard enough.

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~Shel~

jillio

Oh, I think so. Kind of the old saying "yes" when you mean "no" syndrome. If a kid just acts like they understand, it draws less attention to the fact that they are different from their classmates. It happens all the time.

shel90

Then, those educators, counselors, and parents need to be educated about recognizing those signs. I dont think they have been educated.

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~Shel~

jillio