jillio

Yeah, its a sahme that it took so long. Think of all the joy family members denied themselves just because they didn't take the time to communicate.

Deafness

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Kalista

Grummer

I never had an experience mainstream school entire my life. Went to Deaf school since I was three years old. Very confuse four languages during my childhood because most of hearing teachers had their homemade sign language. My dad uses very old fashioned sign language. My grandmother used BSL and oral method. I do not know much ASL until I was entrolled college, it impact me alot... Wow... I become more admire into Deaf Community because it is true my idifity. I realized, what I have so much miss in my academic during my school.

I remember, I went to Girl Scout Camping, parties and neighbors. They put me isolate because they did not want to bother to talk with me. I never understand their speak, no patient to speak slow for me. I always disappointed when the school closed every year. Summer always bored for me because I had a difficult to interact with other hearing kids due to communication barrier.

Until I was high school students, we started to sleep over their houses, they came over my house during summer time. I had so much fun with Deaf friends than hearing friends.

I looked back what I went through. 75% I was not happy where I went to Deaf School. 25% good memories like involve prom, yearbook, student couneslor, basketball, cheerleader and field hockey teams. My most favorite Deaf teacher (Mr. John Spellman). He died due to cancer. He impact my life because he hided in the classroom with sign language, we dropped our jaws on the floor. I always love going to his class than other teachers because of his sign was much better than others.

Glad, I did go to college. I learned so much from other Deaf students until now...

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Enjoy the Autumn time as much as we can. The foliage are such beautiful in Vermont and New Hampshire.

Kalista

wow that is awesome. Glad, your aunt finally realizes for who your brother is. Yes definetly communication is the key !

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Enjoy the Autumn time as much as we can. The foliage are such beautiful in Vermont and New Hampshire.

Grummer

so did I, but honestly i dont even know it, its probably so well hidden, concealed in to my subconscious.

I think it would be a good idea to create some sort of initative to create some sort of workshop to reveal that 'hidden denial' behaviours which we have done to ourselves, as a way to get past the mere language politics, becasue like without the 'why deaf people had to go thru - awareness in the public (than just Sign language _ because hearing people automatically thinks sign language problems only 'belongs to deaf people, and partly the education system - all without realising they (actual hearing people closest (and close proximy in according to Brofenbrenner's ecological system) to their deaf members have contributed that unwitting re-inforcement to the suppression of deaf people's real struggle surrounding being cut off from interaction and inclusion. Im just blabbing off ideas here, i kind of feel its a good time and thing to investigate this sort of matter further. Language politics is 'here to stay but it cant advance without those other dis-abliing factors brought to the fore.

Cheers

Silentwolfdog

Kalista, you are not the only one who was not happy at school for the deaf.

However, my reason was different.

I remember finally gave up and told my family I wanted to transfer to public school at my junior year. After some fighting with moron staff/counselor/whoever they are, they decided to let me go. Ironic, I own it to my parent and one teacher who realized that I would be better off being at public school. So, she stood up for me. I would never forget that. I guess this is the only time someone at the school for the deaf actually stood up for me, now I think about it. Sure there are some people I liked at that school but spending everyday being bored to death because all information is below my level. Lol, I remember my family being surprised that I got a "D" at some courses. Never got below "B" in public school. Come on, that would happens if you lost your hope or dream for the future. I remember hating teachers who are deaf quite more than teachers that aren't. I never understood why, even now I am not quite sure why.

I remember when I got homeworks from public school and sat down on the floor and spend quite long time on the homeworks. I was thinking to myself something like this, "That is what the students normally do? That's how it feels to be a real student?" I was so happy to do hard works where I barely had to at school for the deaf. I know this sounds crazy but...

I don't have a lot of fond memories at that school for the deaf. There are a lot of things I am trying to forget. The last two years at public school (junior-senior) is the happiest two years of my life.

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deafbajagal

I know exactly what you mean when you was talking about the cartoon characters. It wasn't until I went to college and was in a discussion with other students about retro (and more contemporary) cartoons that I realized I didn't know the names of many of them...so I immediatly excused myself and went to the computer lab and that's how I learned the names not only of the characters but the shows. It may seem trivial to some people but I was mortified to even admit to my closest friends about this...I'm not dumb (well, for the most part...I've done dumb things like everyone else)...but there are gaps that should not be there. Like for example, in high school, I was taking college classes and advanced courses - but I had NO earthly idea that I could order what I wanted from McDonald's. I thought you just showed up, give them some money, and they would give you whatever was next. I used to pray that I would get what I wanted - like I was in some kind of casino, waiting for my luck to happen. (My mother ordered for me but I wasn't aware that what she was saying). And it was only a few years ago that I learned the function of the intercom. I was a teacher! Now it all makes sense why sometimes kids and teachers in my school would stop and turn their heads a little. I can remember sitting in one of those desks as a kid, thinking, "There's something seriously wrong...the question is...with them? or me?"

Buffalo

That is the change I want to see happening in the school for the deaf. I want to see school for the deaf improving their currculum instead of closing down those schools and mainstreaming those kids. The deaf kids need both ASL and a great curriculum that push them to do the best they can do.

I never have been mainstreaming but I do understand what do you mean because my oral day school is like your deaf school. That is why I asked my parents to send me to a private catholic deaf school. Better curriculum there.

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It isn't that they can't see the solution. It is that they can't see the problem.
- Gilbert Chesterton

jillio

The sad fact of the matter is, the public schools do not even serve the best needs of the hearing students. Our public school system has numerous problems, and are turning out hearing students unable to read and write at an advanced level. Math skills are on the decline. Knowledge of science is lacking. If a public system cannot serve a student population who does not need additional accommodation, how can they best serve a student population that does need additional accommodation? IMO, mainstreaming simply puts kids at risk in an environment that is at risk.

deafdyke

SilentWolfdog and Kalista, I honestly think that it should be much easier for dhh kids to do a split placement. Like part of the week or day at the deaf school/program and then the rest of the time at the hearing school.
And yes, jillo you're right. Add to that the fact that most mainstream teachers (including special ed) really don't get all that much training in how to teach kids with "classic" disabilites.

shel90

Are you saying that the public schools are doing a poor job of meeting the needs of the students because of the policies set by policymakers or the teachers arent getting quality training from the teaching programs?

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~Shel~

Grummer

Public school is just there to reproduce inequality, to produce the reserve army of labour, and to reproduce the social norms for social control and function, along with the worst sociological slant - functionalism.

Silentwolfdog

I think it depends on teachers itself in public school. I got many good teachers so I did very well in public school. Even the lousy teacher in public school is a lot better than a lousy teacher at school for the deaf. However, this is based on my experience and so I can't apply it to the rest, remember that.

School for the deaf was just plainly nightmare for me.

I do agree that sometimes it's not good to send deaf students to public school. You have to think long and hard before making big decisions like this. In my case, it was for the greater good.

If anything I blame the society and board of education on the declaring of the system. A lot of parents aren't participating in children's lives. Board of education think they are the best and apply to everyone. Parents are not there for children or some businesses want parents to work longer than they can handle. Americans work longer on average than many of other developed countries.

Basically, do well on the test is more important than learning and understand the subject.

Classroom is too big for teacher to manage.

There's so many problems that needed to be address, but it all depends on taxpayer, how much would they be willing to pay for? A lot of people don't want their taxes raised so where can you get the money for school?

Also, you can't think about athletics all the time, you need to set up some clubs where students can get extra help on certain subjects.

Basically attitude I got the society is that education isn't worth our efforts even though we think it's important for the future. We preach but we don't do it.

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If you are using red or blue font, there's a good chance that I am not reading your posts due to it being blended into background!
I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night. ~Sarah William
Check my art at http://silentwolfdog.deviantart.com

deafdyke

Shel, I think its both. I attended a state college with a high proportion of future teachers , and I tended to know more about "classic" sped then a lot of my teacher friends.

jillio

A bit of both.

jillio

**nodding**

deafdyke

Just to clarify...........I am NOT bashing mainstreaming. Just saying that I think instead of automaticly assuming that the mainstream school is the best placement, that we need to provide a continuum of educational placements. The trouble with that sort of deal is that kids are falling through the cracks too easily.

shel90

I agree!

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~Shel~

deafbajagal

I agree! The federal guidelines about the Least Restrictive Environment (LRE) is really backwards for many deaf and hard of hearing children...because of communication and language issues, the public school setting may not necessary be the LRE...a residental school might be the LRE for that child. Sadly the federal guidelines interpret the residental school as being more restrictive than a public school...but for some deaf/hh children that is not the case.

deafdyke

It really does seem that despite what some really out of touch idealists thought, mainstreaming hasn't really provided improvement in deaf ed.
Yes, there are kids who do well, but it does seem like overall those kids are the kind who would have done well even pre Public Law that pushed mainstreaming.

paperclip

I was mainstreamed. I am happy with the experience and memories. At the same time, a part of me realizes I am not yet understood. We live and dream alone. But growing up, I watched a lot of TV with closed captions to learn how to read. And I have trouble distinquishing about reality. And it turns into nightmares. So I have memories, but I don't know if they were memories that happen to me, or if they were memories of TV shows. I was definitely exposed to Law and Order a little too young.

Jaden

Barbaro

I grew up orally until I had learned my first sign language at age of 9. I attended D/HH program elementary and middle schools (We used Total Communication), and regular /private schools (No D/HH programs/interpreters). I had private speech therapy after school for years. My parents were concerned for my safety and education at the public high school's environment such as criminal activity, and poor teaching methods, so they sent me to take community college classes at age of 16 during the senior year, and I loved every minute of it. Even been to Project Talk (It closed down years ago.) and John Tracy Institute for a summer school. I had learned cued speech for a brief time. I do remember my childhood well. I personally don't feel mine was stolen.

However.. based on my observation, some of the former classmates from my elementary school had no social skills. You can say that they had bad childhoods. I recall this boy from my class grew up in Riverside School for the Deaf all his life. Boy, he was scary. He had no conscience at all. His parents never cared for him at all. He often terrorized and whipped deaf and hearing classmates at the playground with his jumping rope. He was extremely angry, difficult and violent; he kept hissing back at his own teachers, aides and speech therapists. He was sitting at his desk next to this classmate who told him to leave her alone. He threw his violent temper, and tossed her desk upside down. He often tore up his tests in front of his teachers after he found out his tests had failed. He was in the 3rd grade and didn't know the whole ABCs. He had been to the principal office continually. Years later, I had gotten home from college for a break. I sat on the couch and flipped the channels to catch up with news. My eyes were opened widely when I recognized him on the news. I was thinking, "I know this guy!" He wounded up in prison after he was convicted of sexual assault.

There was a woman who was studying to become a certified teacher. Unfortunately, she did not last longer no more than two months or so. I swear she was so frustrated and burned out. She said that she could not handle children's immaturity, irresponsibility, and lack of social skills. She had a complete breakdown, and just left. She never came back.

There were several 4th and 5th grade girls who got themselves in bloody fight numerous of times during the breaks. One of the girls was infamous for punching moves and was not afraid to punch anyone. She nearly had punched her aide in the stomach, and was sent to the principal office. I honestly don't know how many detentions she had gotten. She often had accused every classmate and teacher of lying just out of the blue. The other day, she had violated the school policy for bringing her real cuffs, and was ordered to go home instantly. Her mother had to pick her up. She did not say much. I managed to keep my distance from violent classmates and concentrated on my assignments for two years.

I knew this sweet classmate. She had common sense and was smart. Unfortunately, she had struggled with her spelling skills and everything. She had failed her tests. EVERY test. Her parents were from Mexico and barely had spoken English language. I had tried to encourage and teach her how to memorize words, but what I tried to help her was insufficient.

I attended middle school for two years, and it had been an interesting experience. When they hit their puberty, their attitudes were getting worse and badder. They have violated school policy such as forgery, fights and cheating. There was a particular girl who had a serious conundrum had pushed the limits by using so much profanity. She loved to manipulate, and deceive her friends and teachers in worst possible way. She did it for heck of getting attention or stay out of the trouble. She desperately wanted to be popular so bad. She often played hooky, and was told to ask her mother to sign the paper regarding her absences. Instead, she had committed forgery by signing her mother's name. She winded up getting detention for 4 weeks or so. There was one of the incidents that I will never forget. During the History class, we were having WW 2 discussion and suddenly, she started bawling out, "I hate Jews!" She kept bragging she was proud of being Christian. The intern was so appalled by her statement and rebuked her it was discrimination and inappropriate. The intern even asked her, "Did you know your teacher is Jewish? Do you hate him?" I sensed this girl was in hot water. In an attempt to get herself out of the situation she had caused accused her, "You are lying! Liar! B$%*@!" The intern had ordered her to have a talk with her Jewish teacher (He is Deaf). Personally, I've met their parents; they had neglected their duties and responsibilities in helping and teaching their children. It is sad.

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We know what we are but not what we may be.
-Author:Shakespeare

Buffalo

Could you please expound on functionalism? Pro and con, please.

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It isn't that they can't see the solution. It is that they can't see the problem.
- Gilbert Chesterton

jillio

One chapter in approximately the 3rd year of undergraduate study. Shame!