Is ASL Fading Away or Not? - Page 4

jillio · 12-23-2007, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loml

Are you implying that my statement is referring to Banjos' ability to critical analyze?

I'm not implying anything. If I have something to state, I will state it outright. You seem to be the one fond of implication. If you meant Banjo has not walked in Cloggy's shoes, why didn't you simply say so?

My relpy was to another poster, not to you.

jillio · 12-23-2007, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

Parents will naturally want their child to be as much like themselves as possible and will probably choose oralism, Most of us know that for fact because we have hearing parents, What Banjo stated was 100 percent correct-- You must walk a mile in another person's shoes before you can understand what it means to be that person. Only deaf people understand what it means to be deaf because deaf people know the full communication access and quality for themselves.

Exactly. Which is why it makes perfect sense: if you want to know what it is to be a deaf child, ask a deaf adult.

loml · 12-23-2007, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

The words are right there. No interpretation needed. Direct question, direct answer.

jillio - Your words not mine.

loml · 12-23-2007, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

Parents will naturally want their child to be as much like themselves as possible and will probably choose oralism, Most of us know that for fact because we have hearing parents, What Banjo stated was 100 percent correct-- You must walk a mile in another person's shoes before you can understand what it means to be that person. Only deaf people understand what it means to be deaf because deaf people know the full communication access and quality for themselves.

As only Cloggy knows what it means to be the father of his deaf child.

loml · 12-23-2007, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

That would be, but neither are you he. And that has absolutely nothing to do with Banjo's ability to critical analyze that which he has observed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by loml887672

Are you implying that my statement is referring to Banjos' ability to critical analyze?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio887679

I'm not implying anything. If I have something to state, I will state it outright. You seem to be the one fond of implication. If you meant Banjo has not walked in Cloggy's shoes, why didn't you simply say so?

My relpy was to another poster, not to you.

jillio - And that poster would be??

rick48 · 12-23-2007, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

ASL is the third most learned second langauge in the U.S. Evidently, there are quite a few still using it. And in those still using it, CI users are among the numbers.

Late deafened individuals have, historically, never relied on ASL as a group.

In a vacuum that sounds impressive but figures I have seen have only 550,000 people in the US AND Canada who use ASL. So it is a very small percentage of the total population.

Still, I do not see ASL ever fading away as a substantial portion of the deaf population will use it as either their primary or secondary method of communication.

rick48 · 12-23-2007, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

You are in fact, saying that we are not qualified to give out any advices. Yet you are. You blatantly ignore the first-hand experiences of many deaf members here. We have quite a few CI users here and they are nowhere as hostile as you and the other hearing parents like Rick48 have been. Heck, Rick got banned because he couldn't resist urging insults and attack people even though he was already warned. Some people are just ill tempered. They have no self-control. The reason why CI users are perfectly welcome here is because they know what’s it’s like to be deaf even though our experiences differ on a large scale, but we all know what it’s like to be deaf.

If you have something to say about me, then why don't you have the intestinal fortitude to say it directly to me? I have no idea who you are and cannot recall ever discussing anything with you but yet you seem to be quite an expert on who is and who is not qualified to give advice on this forum. Have you ever raised a deaf child? Have you ever raised any chidren? Have you walked a mile in our shoes?

I have had the opportunity to meet many deaf adults during the continuing course of raising my child, and deaf adults are no different from hearing adults. There are some whose advice is sage and greatly accepted and there are others who, well let's just say their advice is not so sage. The bottomline is that parents such as Cloggy and myself know our children far better than you ever will for the one thing you seem to have forgotten in your insulting putdown of both of us is that mutual deafness pales in comparision to the bonds of love that is formed by the parent child relationship. My child is deaf but that is not all she is and if that is how you choose to define her then you have missed the essence of who she is.

You can think whatever reason you want for why I was "banned" but if you seriuosly think that "insults and attacks" are only from those who are parents of ci kids then I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I would love to sell to you.

Maybe the next time you choose to attack me, you will have the decency to do it directly to me and not bury it in some other thread.

Merry Christmas,
Rick

Luv2Chat · 12-23-2007, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

Cloggy,

It's a wonder why people would listen to you after all that conspiracy theories you spew out about 9/11 and that it was an insider job. You tried to say it was true.

You have absolutely no credibility here at Alldeaf.com. This isn't a personal attack, but it's quite clear you are only here to provoke the members by belittling their intelligence on a daily basis.

Enough is enough. It's quite clear you are no longer welcome here because of your hostility toward the other members simply because you don't agree with them. You treat them like second-class citizens.

You are not deaf. Your daughter is, not but you. You seem to keep forgetting that. Therefore, your knowledge on deafness is much, much more limited whether you like it or not. You have demonstrated how limited your knowledge is on many occasions. Even hearing parents like Jillo know that and they know better not to cross that line with us.

What I'm saying is, we don't need hearing parents coming in here and tell us you know what's the best for deaf children. Especially when we are deaf. We should be debating in a civilized manner, but with that attitude of yours, we are getting nowhere. Instead, you keep pointing fingers and provoking members then try to turn the table on them and say they started it.

It always has been you. Always been you. Truth is, you have no people skills. You haven't shown any of that at all. All you have managed to do is offend and provoke more and more people.

You are in fact, saying that we are not qualified to give out any advices. Yet you are. You blatantly ignore the first-hand experiences of many deaf members here. We have quite a few CI users here and they are nowhere as hostile as you and the other hearing parents like Rick48 have been. Heck, Rick got banned because he couldn't resist urging insults and attack people even though he was already warned. Some people are just ill tempered. They have no self-control. The reason why CI users are perfectly welcome here is because they know what’s it’s like to be deaf even though our experiences differ on a large scale, but we all know what it’s like to be deaf.

So do your daughter. I just hope she won’t turn out to be such an arrogant person like you are and I truly hope she will be an independent woman and is unafraid to tell you what’s on her mind. Even if the truth hurts.

You have long forgotten what it’s like to be a child. They seem so innocent and carefree. Then once they grow up, they start to see you differently and realize your flaws as a parent. That day will come for you. Not now, not anytime soon. But someday, the truth will strike you where it hurts the most.

Not trying to dampen your day, but I just had to say it. Wake up and smell the coffee, the world doesn’t revolve around you. Not everybody share the same views as you do. You are not an expert on deafness. Your daughter is. She knows what it’s like because she has the first-hand experience of it. You may try to understand it, but you truly won’t until you experience it.

Here’s an advice, start treating people the way you want to be treated. Then you might be surprised what a difference it makes.

Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

OMG, i cant believe what i am reading at this sight. I've been checking out this sight for some time now trying to get some more info on deaf culture. I have a 7 year old child who is deaf and wears a ci. I figured she is old enough now to understand when we talk about different cultures. One thing i must say is this is absolutely NOT the place to get any info regarding deaf culture. Statements that are made like the one above make me just shake my head. I am hearing and my child is deaf BUT if you think you know my child better then me because you are deaf, then i'm sorry but you are sadly mistaken. This is not the 1970's where parents had no access to info as easy as we do now or where parents were ashamed if their child had a disability. Times have changed and so has technology. Of course you guys had it rough growing up, technology back then sucked and most relied on lip reading and just got frustrated, well whether you want to believe it or not times have changed. You talk about hearing parents have not walked a mile in a deaf persons shoe...well guess what you have not walked a mile in my shoe either and infact nor have you walked in my childs either whether you want to believe it or not. Nobody knows another persons child more then the parent and for you to believe that is insane. Just becase you expeirenced a rough childhood does not mean every deaf child will. Their may be a few bad apples out there but don't generalize all hearing parents who do not agree with you because if that's the case then i really don't need to look into the deaf culture any more based on what i am seeing here. Heres some advise for you, treat people the way oyu want to be treated

Cheri · 12-23-2007, 09:10 PM

You only made one post today, and You had to quoted Banjo's on your first visit, on Alldeaf Luv2Chat? It doesn't sound so right to me, something fishy is going on.

deafskeptic · 12-23-2007, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luv2Chat

OMG, i cant believe what i am reading at this sight. I've been checking out this sight for some time now trying to get some more info on deaf culture. I have a 7 year old child who is deaf and wears a ci. I figured she is old enough now to understand when we talk about different cultures. One thing i must say is this is absolutely NOT the place to get any info regarding deaf culture. Statements that are made like the one above make me just shake my head. I am hearing and my child is deaf BUT if you think you know my child better then me because you are deaf, then i'm sorry but you are sadly mistaken. This is not the 1970's where parents had no access to info as easy as we do now or where parents were ashamed if their child had a disability. Times have changed and so has technology. Of course you guys had it rough growing up, technology back then sucked and most relied on lip reading and just got frustrated, well whether you want to believe it or not times have changed. You talk about hearing parents have not walked a mile in a deaf persons shoe...well guess what you have not walked a mile in my shoe either and infact nor have you walked in my childs either whether you want to believe it or not. Nobody knows another persons child more then the parent and for you to believe that is insane. Just becase you expeirenced a rough childhood does not mean every deaf child will. Their may be a few bad apples out there but don't generalize all hearing parents who do not agree with you because if that's the case then i really don't need to look into the deaf culture any more based on what i am seeing here. Heres some advise for you, treat people the way oyu want to be treated

You sound like my mother. Things haven't changed even though techology has changed. You're not very open to our views judging from your post. We may not know your child's likes or dislikes but we certainly know what communcation barriers she'll face.

Most hearing do not understand what we really need as it's all speech speech and they neglect our language skills. They insisit that we be just like them. Even if some of us want to, we can never be truly like the hearing.

Cheri · 12-23-2007, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

You sound like my mother. Things haven't changed even though techology has changed. You're not very open to our views judging from your post. We may not know your child's likes or dislikes but we certainly know what communcation barriers she'll face.

Most hearing do not understand what we really need as it's all speech speech and they neglect our language skills. They insisit that we be just like them. Even if some of us want to, we can never be truly like the hearing.

!!

Luv2Chat · 12-23-2007, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

You only made one post today, and You had to quoted Banjo's on your first visit, on Alldeaf Luv2Chat? It doesn't sound so right to me, something fishy is going on.

?????What does this being my first post have to do with anything? This may be my first post but its not my first visit. Reread my quote.

Luv2Chat · 12-23-2007, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

You sound like my mother. Things haven't changed even though techology has changed. You're not very open to our views judging from your post. We may not know your child's likes or dislikes but we certainly know what communcation barriers she'll face.

Most hearing do not understand what we really need as it's all speech speech and they neglect our language skills. They insisit that we be just like them. Even if some of us want to, we can never be truly like the hearing.

Things have changed and if you don't see that then you need to wake up and smell the coffee. You don't know anything about my daughter and how she communicates so who are you to judge. You don't know her speech or language skills you just assume the worst right off the bat. My child is her own person, she does not need to be "truly like the hearing" or whatever. Her hearing status does not idenify her. Her personality and her heart makes her who she is.

shel90 · 12-23-2007, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loml

shel90- Cued Speech was not invented because of the written format of Enlglish, but because Dr. Cornett was concernd by the low level of Enlgish literacy amongst some deaf children.

I give up. Nothing is making sense anymore. I will just stick to sign language and spoken language cuz they makes the most sense to me.

shel90 · 12-23-2007, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luv2Chat

Things have changed and if you don't see that then you need to wake up and smell the coffee. You don't know anything about my daughter and how she communicates so who are you to judge. You don't know her speech or language skills you just assume the worst right off the bat. My child is her own person, she does not need to be "truly like the hearing" or whatever. Her hearing status does not idenify her. Her personality and her heart makes her who she is.

My mom thought the same about me. She thought I was happy and well adjusted growing up. She was wrong...big time wrong. She missed all the signs of my struggles so that is why we, deaf adults, try to tell the parents to watch out for those signs. Up to you parents to keep them in mind or just disregard our advice and experiences.

Banjo · 12-23-2007, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luv2Chat

OMG, i cant believe what i am reading at this sight. I've been checking out this sight for some time now trying to get some more info on deaf culture. I have a 7 year old child who is deaf and wears a ci. I figured she is old enough now to understand when we talk about different cultures. One thing i must say is this is absolutely NOT the place to get any info regarding deaf culture. Statements that are made like the one above make me just shake my head. I am hearing and my child is deaf BUT if you think you know my child better then me because you are deaf, then i'm sorry but you are sadly mistaken. This is not the 1970's where parents had no access to info as easy as we do now or where parents were ashamed if their child had a disability. Times have changed and so has technology. Of course you guys had it rough growing up, technology back then sucked and most relied on lip reading and just got frustrated, well whether you want to believe it or not times have changed. You talk about hearing parents have not walked a mile in a deaf persons shoe...well guess what you have not walked a mile in my shoe either and infact nor have you walked in my childs either whether you want to believe it or not. Nobody knows another persons child more then the parent and for you to believe that is insane. Just becase you expeirenced a rough childhood does not mean every deaf child will. Their may be a few bad apples out there but don't generalize all hearing parents who do not agree with you because if that's the case then i really don't need to look into the deaf culture any more based on what i am seeing here. Heres some advise for you, treat people the way oyu want to be treated

Perhaps you should read what I wrote...

Banjo's World: The Importance of Communication

Who said I had a rough childhood? I certainly did not. I had a great childhood. Certainly much better than what many deaf children experienced. I have a set of great parents. Besides I'm 24, I was born in the 80s where cochlear implants were starting be experimented on deaf adults.

I never said I know your child better than you do. I only said that the parents don't know what it's like to be deaf, only their children do. My parents were hearing, I have learned awfully a lot from them about what they went through with me. I also know a lot of parents and I have a lot of deaf friends. I have a lot of on-hand experiences and not to mention that I used to work as a peer helper for the deaf. By the way, you mentioned that your child is only 7. That's still awfully young. Just wait till they are adults, maybe you'll be surprised that you don't know your children as well as you thought. God knows that I've seen it enough times since I used to be a peer helper for the deaf.

Quote:

You can think whatever reason you want for why I was "banned" but if you seriuosly think that "insults and attacks" are only from those who are parents of ci kids then I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I would love to sell to you.

Maybe the next time you choose to attack me, you will have the decency to do it directly to me and not bury it in some other thread.

Rick48, you are the last person here who should be giving me an advice on decency. This is a public forum, I will name names, I'm not going to beat around the bush. I will not notify the members whenever I mention them in a thread. If it's here, it's here for you to read whether you like it or not.

Quote:

Nobody knows another persons child more then the parent

Only if that was true for every child. Thankfully, my parents know me quite well. I can't say the same for some of my friends and others.

Angel · 12-23-2007, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

Cloggy,

It's a wonder why people would listen to you after all that conspiracy theories you spew out about 9/11 and that it was an insider job. You tried to say it was true.

You have absolutely no credibility here at Alldeaf.com. This isn't a personal attack, but it's quite clear you are only here to provoke the members by belittling their intelligence on a daily basis.

Enough is enough. It's quite clear you are no longer welcome here because of your hostility toward the other members simply because you don't agree with them. You treat them like second-class citizens.

You are not deaf. Your daughter is, not but you. You seem to keep forgetting that. Therefore, your knowledge on deafness is much, much more limited whether you like it or not. You have demonstrated how limited your knowledge is on many occasions. Even hearing parents like Jillo know that and they know better not to cross that line with us.

What I'm saying is, we don't need hearing parents coming in here and tell us you know what's the best for deaf children. Especially when we are deaf. We should be debating in a civilized manner, but with that attitude of yours, we are getting nowhere. Instead, you keep pointing fingers and provoking members then try to turn the table on them and say they started it.

It always has been you. Always been you. Truth is, you have no people skills. You haven't shown any of that at all. All you have managed to do is offend and provoke more and more people.

You are in fact, saying that we are not qualified to give out any advices. Yet you are. You blatantly ignore the first-hand experiences of many deaf members here. We have quite a few CI users here and they are nowhere as hostile as you and the other hearing parents like Rick48 have been. Heck, Rick got banned because he couldn't resist urging insults and attack people even though he was already warned. Some people are just ill tempered. They have no self-control. The reason why CI users are perfectly welcome here is because they know what’s it’s like to be deaf even though our experiences differ on a large scale, but we all know what it’s like to be deaf.

So do your daughter. I just hope she won’t turn out to be such an arrogant person like you are and I truly hope she will be an independent woman and is unafraid to tell you what’s on her mind. Even if the truth hurts.

You have long forgotten what it’s like to be a child. They seem so innocent and carefree. Then once they grow up, they start to see you differently and realize your flaws as a parent. That day will come for you. Not now, not anytime soon. But someday, the truth will strike you where it hurts the most.

Not trying to dampen your day, but I just had to say it. Wake up and smell the coffee, the world doesn’t revolve around you. Not everybody share the same views as you do. You are not an expert on deafness. Your daughter is. She knows what it’s like because she has the first-hand experience of it. You may try to understand it, but you truly won’t until you experience it.

Here’s an advice, start treating people the way you want to be treated. Then you might be surprised what a difference it makes.

Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

,

!!!, Merry Christmas to you too!

Banjo · 12-23-2007, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

My mom thought the same about me. She thought I was happy and well adjusted growing up. She was wrong...big time wrong. She missed all the signs of my struggles so that is why we, deaf adults, try to tell the parents to watch out for those signs. Up to you parents to keep them in mind or just disregard our advice and experiences.

I know quite a lot of people who turned out like that.

Luv2Chat · 12-23-2007, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

My mom thought the same about me. She thought I was happy and well adjusted growing up. She was wrong...big time wrong. She missed all the signs of my struggles so that is why we, deaf adults, try to tell the parents to watch out for those signs. Up to you parents to keep them in mind or just disregard our advice and experiences.

I am very sorry about your struggles growing up. No parent wants that for their child. I'm not trying to speak for all hearing parents but i think most of us do come here to learn about the struggles and experiences that are common with people who are deaf. Thats why i say times have changed, parents now do their homework (at least i hope they do) and sites like these help us to further understand deafness better. It also helps us meet other parents who have deaf children and share experiences with eachother. I know i came out blazing with my first post but when i read what banjo wrote it bugged me. Advice is great and thats why we are here but nobody has the right to tell a parent that they know their child better then that parent.

Angel · 12-23-2007, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

You sound like my mother. Things haven't changed even though techology has changed. You're not very open to our views judging from your post. We may not know your child's likes or dislikes but we certainly know what communcation barriers she'll face.

Most hearing do not understand what we really need as it's all speech speech and they neglect our language skills. They insisit that we be just like them. Even if some of us want to, we can never be truly like the hearing.

Amen!!!

flip · 12-24-2007, 12:32 AM

Banjo, great post! It's sad that those parents, that love their kids so much, are at a greater risk of loosing the bonds to their children in the future, if they do not change their view on the adult deaf population

flip · 12-24-2007, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loml

jillio - Your words not mine.

Loml, I do not reject CS as a tool, but I am a bit confused about your positions.

Is CS a great communication tool, or do it have limits in communication? Is CS better to use with newborns waiting for a CI than ASL? Is it a great idea that CS should be the language of all deaf people, not ASL?

Is it an idea to explain your positions on CS once for all? Cloggy keep on posting articles that seems to disagree with your viewpoints, but I am not sure.

12-23-2007, 09:10 PM	#99 (permalink)
Cheri Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,076	You only made one post today, and You had to quoted Banjo's on your first visit, on Alldeaf Luv2Chat? It doesn't sound so right to me, something fishy is going on. __________________

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12-24-2007, 12:32 AM	#111 (permalink)
flip Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 479	Banjo, great post! It's sad that those parents, that love their kids so much, are at a greater risk of loosing the bonds to their children in the future, if they do not change their view on the adult deaf population