Is ASL Fading Away or Not? - Page 3

loml · 12-23-2007, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

What happened to your affirmation that CS is a tool to develop literacy, and those using it as a communication system and to develop speech are presecribing off label, so to speak? We are taliking about full communciatiaon, not literacy tools, in this thread.

In addition, you claim that CS is not intended to replace ASL. You're going in circles again.

Cued English via Cued Speech is communication.

I am not the one going in circles.

loml · 12-23-2007, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

CS is a manual code for oral language. You have stated that deaf children should not be exposed to ASL until they have developed a strong foundation in oral language. Therefore, you obviously do subscribe to that philosophy.

LOL....I have never said that. Do not think that you can define what my philosophy is.

Banjo · 12-23-2007, 02:56 PM

Cloggy,

It's a wonder why people would listen to you after all that conspiracy theories you spew out about 9/11 and that it was an insider job. You tried to say it was true.

You have absolutely no credibility here at Alldeaf.com. This isn't a personal attack, but it's quite clear you are only here to provoke the members by belittling their intelligence on a daily basis.

Enough is enough. It's quite clear you are no longer welcome here because of your hostility toward the other members simply because you don't agree with them. You treat them like second-class citizens.

You are not deaf. Your daughter is, not but you. You seem to keep forgetting that. Therefore, your knowledge on deafness is much, much more limited whether you like it or not. You have demonstrated how limited your knowledge is on many occasions. Even hearing parents like Jillo know that and they know better not to cross that line with us.

What I'm saying is, we don't need hearing parents coming in here and tell us you know what's the best for deaf children. Especially when we are deaf. We should be debating in a civilized manner, but with that attitude of yours, we are getting nowhere. Instead, you keep pointing fingers and provoking members then try to turn the table on them and say they started it.

It always has been you. Always been you. Truth is, you have no people skills. You haven't shown any of that at all. All you have managed to do is offend and provoke more and more people.

You are in fact, saying that we are not qualified to give out any advices. Yet you are. You blatantly ignore the first-hand experiences of many deaf members here. We have quite a few CI users here and they are nowhere as hostile as you and the other hearing parents like Rick48 have been. Heck, Rick got banned because he couldn't resist urging insults and attack people even though he was already warned. Some people are just ill tempered. They have no self-control. The reason why CI users are perfectly welcome here is because they know what’s it’s like to be deaf even though our experiences differ on a large scale, but we all know what it’s like to be deaf.

So do your daughter. I just hope she won’t turn out to be such an arrogant person like you are and I truly hope she will be an independent woman and is unafraid to tell you what’s on her mind. Even if the truth hurts.

You have long forgotten what it’s like to be a child. They seem so innocent and carefree. Then once they grow up, they start to see you differently and realize your flaws as a parent. That day will come for you. Not now, not anytime soon. But someday, the truth will strike you where it hurts the most.

Not trying to dampen your day, but I just had to say it. Wake up and smell the coffee, the world doesn’t revolve around you. Not everybody share the same views as you do. You are not an expert on deafness. Your daughter is. She knows what it’s like because she has the first-hand experience of it. You may try to understand it, but you truly won’t until you experience it.

Here’s an advice, start treating people the way you want to be treated. Then you might be surprised what a difference it makes.

Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

jillio · 12-23-2007, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loml

Cued English via Cued Speech is communication.

I am not the one going in circles.

And English is an orally based language, i.e. the designation "cued speech".

jillio · 12-23-2007, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loml

LOL....I have never said that. Do not think that you can define what my philosophy is.

Give me a minute and I will pull up the post. Specifically, it was reply to a direct question from Kaitlin. It has alrready been reposted at least once in another thread. The specific question was regarding your philosophy on the use of ASL from the beginning of a deaf child's life, and you replied that you did not agree that ASL should be used until a strong foundation in oral language had been established.

I will find the exact post for you in a few.

loml · 12-23-2007, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

And English is an orally based language, i.e. the designation "cued speech".

English is spoken and written. Once again I can explain this for you, it is the fact that the language has a written format that Dr. Cornett choose to name the system Cued Speech.

It appear you subscribe to the same misinformation regarding Cued Speech as many of the interpretors and members of the Deaf community, that I am familiar with, subscribe to. It is not about learning to speak.

shel90 · 12-23-2007, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loml

English is spoken and written. Once again I can explain this for you, it is the fact that the language has a written format that Dr. Cornett choose to name the system Cued Speech.

It appear you subscribe to the same misinformation regarding Cued Speech as many of the interpretors and members of the Deaf community, that I am familiar with, subscibe to.

That's true that English is spoken and written but it is impossible to aquire a language solely through written English without learning the spoken form first. If CS was invented because of the written format of English, then that would mean we are asking deaf children to acquire language through the written form first?

shel90 · 12-23-2007, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

Cloggy,

It's a wonder why people would listen to you after all that conspiracy theories you spew out about 9/11 and that it was an insider job. You tried to say it was true.

You have absolutely no credibility here at Alldeaf.com. This isn't a personal attack, but it's quite clear you are only here to provoke the members by belittling their intelligence on a daily basis.

Enough is enough. It's quite clear you are no longer welcome here because of your hostility toward the other members simply because you don't agree with them. You treat them like second-class citizens.

You are not deaf. Your daughter is, not but you. You seem to keep forgetting that. Therefore, your knowledge on deafness is much, much more limited whether you like it or not. You have demonstrated how limited your knowledge is on many occasions. Even hearing parents like Jillo know that and they know better not to cross that line with us.

What I'm saying is, we don't need hearing parents coming in here and tell us you know what's the best for deaf children. Especially when we are deaf. We should be debating in a civilized manner, but with that attitude of yours, we are getting nowhere. Instead, you keep pointing fingers and provoking members then try to turn the table on them and say they started it.

It always has been you. Always been you. Truth is, you have no people skills. You haven't shown any of that at all. All you have managed to do is offend and provoke more and more people.

You are in fact, saying that we are not qualified to give out any advices. Yet you are. You blatantly ignore the first-hand experiences of many deaf members here. We have quite a few CI users here and they are nowhere as hostile as you and the other hearing parents like Rick48 have been. Heck, Rick got banned because he couldn't resist urging insults and attack people even though he was already warned. Some people are just ill tempered. They have no self-control. The reason why CI users are perfectly welcome here is because they know what’s it’s like to be deaf even though our experiences differ on a large scale, but we all know what it’s like to be deaf.

So do your daughter. I just hope she won’t turn out to be such an arrogant person like you are and I truly hope she will be an independent woman and is unafraid to tell you what’s on her mind. Even if the truth hurts.

You have long forgotten what it’s like to be a child. They seem so innocent and carefree. Then once they grow up, they start to see you differently and realize your flaws as a parent. That day will come for you. Not now, not anytime soon. But someday, the truth will strike you where it hurts the most.

Not trying to dampen your day, but I just had to say it. Wake up and smell the coffee, the world doesn’t revolve around you. Not everybody share the same views as you do. You are not an expert on deafness. Your daughter is. She knows what it’s like because she has the first-hand experience of it. You may try to understand it, but you truly won’t until you experience it.

Here’s an advice, start treating people the way you want to be treated. Then you might be surprised what a difference it makes.

Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Thank you for the support, Banjo. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year's to you as well.

jillio · 12-23-2007, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banjo

Cloggy,

It's a wonder why people would listen to you after all that conspiracy theories you spew out about 9/11 and that it was an insider job. You tried to say it was true.

You have absolutely no credibility here at Alldeaf.com. This isn't a personal attack, but it's quite clear you are only here to provoke the members by belittling their intelligence on a daily basis.

Enough is enough. It's quite clear you are no longer welcome here because of your hostility toward the other members simply because you don't agree with them. You treat them like second-class citizens.

You are not deaf. Your daughter is, not but you. You seem to keep forgetting that. Therefore, your knowledge on deafness is much, much more limited whether you like it or not. You have demonstrated how limited your knowledge is on many occasions. Even hearing parents like Jillo know that and they know better not to cross that line with us.

What I'm saying is, we don't need hearing parents coming in here and tell us you know what's the best for deaf children. Especially when we are deaf. We should be debating in a civilized manner, but with that attitude of yours, we are getting nowhere. Instead, you keep pointing fingers and provoking members then try to turn the table on them and say they started it.

It always has been you. Always been you. Truth is, you have no people skills. You haven't shown any of that at all. All you have managed to do is offend and provoke more and more people.

You are in fact, saying that we are not qualified to give out any advices. Yet you are. You blatantly ignore the first-hand experiences of many deaf members here. We have quite a few CI users here and they are nowhere as hostile as you and the other hearing parents like Rick48 have been. Heck, Rick got banned because he couldn't resist urging insults and attack people even though he was already warned. Some people are just ill tempered. They have no self-control. The reason why CI users are perfectly welcome here is because they know what’s it’s like to be deaf even though our experiences differ on a large scale, but we all know what it’s like to be deaf.

So do your daughter. I just hope she won’t turn out to be such an arrogant person like you are and I truly hope she will be an independent woman and is unafraid to tell you what’s on her mind. Even if the truth hurts.

You have long forgotten what it’s like to be a child. They seem so innocent and carefree. Then once they grow up, they start to see you differently and realize your flaws as a parent. That day will come for you. Not now, not anytime soon. But someday, the truth will strike you where it hurts the most.

Not trying to dampen your day, but I just had to say it. Wake up and smell the coffee, the world doesn’t revolve around you. Not everybody share the same views as you do. You are not an expert on deafness. Your daughter is. She knows what it’s like because she has the first-hand experience of it. You may try to understand it, but you truly won’t until you experience it.

Here’s an advice, start treating people the way you want to be treated. Then you might be surprised what a difference it makes.

Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Merry Christmas, and Happy New year, Banjo!

loml · 12-23-2007, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

That's true that English is spoken and written but it is impossible to aquire a language solely through written English without learning the spoken form first. If CS was invented because of the written format of English, then that would mean we are asking deaf children to acquire language through the written form first?

shel90- I do not agree that a person needs to have language oraly first. A person can use CS to see the components of the written/oral language. Dr. Cornett view printed word a spoken language on paper. Cued speech does not ask deaf children to aquire language through the written form first.

jillio · 12-23-2007, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loml

English is spoken and written. Once again I can explain this for you, it is the fact that the language has a written format that Dr. Cornett choose to name the system Cued Speech.

It appear you subscribe to the same misinformation regarding Cued Speech as many of the interpretors and members of the Deaf community, that I am familiar with, subscribe to. It is not about learning to speak.

And which came first, loml, the oral mode or the written mode? I'll answer that for you. The oral mode. Therefore, even written English is a mode for conveying an orally based langauge.

Perhaps it is not the terps, the Master TODs and the members of the deaf community that are so much in error, as it is the supporters of CS.

You seem to be incapable of understanding that acquiring language and learning a language are two very different processes, and it is the assumption that one can overcome deficits created by failure to acquire language can be overcome with teaching a language.

loml · 12-23-2007, 03:22 PM

Banjo - He is not you, but neither are you him.

jillio · 12-23-2007, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

That's true that English is spoken and written but it is impossible to aquire a language solely through written English without learning the spoken form first. If CS was invented because of the written format of English, then that would mean we are asking deaf children to acquire language through the written form first?

Exactly, shel. The whole line of reasoning does not make sense.

jillio · 12-23-2007, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loml

Banjo - He is not you, but neither are you him.

That would be, but neither are you he. And that has absolutely nothing to do with Banjo's ability to critical analyze that which he has observed.

jillio · 12-23-2007, 03:34 PM

Here we go, loml....from the Acoustic Characteristics thread, post # 871.Originally Posted by Kaitin
This makes sense to me. If cued speech is not a language then it should be used after ASL and English is learned? Do you agree, Loml?

No I do not agree Kaitin.

And this is but one of your numerous posts that convey your philosophy of Cued Speech being used for langauge acquisiton and ASL not being introduced until a strong foundation of oral English is in place.

The problem with that is, deaf children are able to acquire ASL and must be taught English, even if it is the only language they are exposed to. This is a directive process tthat results in less than fluent use of any language because the process of acquisition has not been attended to.

Cheri · 12-23-2007, 03:35 PM

well said!! Banjo! He's our deaf hero.

shel90 · 12-23-2007, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loml

Banjo - He is not you, but neither are you him.

Banjo never said that Cloggy is him. Banjo is voicing his opinions based on observations. Big difference.

jillio · 12-23-2007, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Banjo never said that Cloggy is him. Banjo is voicing his opinions based on observations. Big difference.

Exactly. Banjo simply made a very astute observation regarding what he has witnessed.

***LinuxGold*** · 12-23-2007, 04:11 PM

I 100% support Banjo.

A dog can't consult a cat how it's like to be a cat simply because dog's relative is a cat.

jillio · 12-23-2007, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LinuxGold

I 100% support Banjo.

A dog can't consult a cat how it's like to be a cat simply because dog's relative is a cat.

Excellent analogy.

deafskeptic · 12-23-2007, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Merry Christmas, and Happy New year, Banjo!

Nods. That was a wonderful post. Anyway, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, Jillio and Banjo.

jillio · 12-23-2007, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

Nods. That was a wonderful post. Anyway, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, Jillio and Banjo.

Right back at you, deafskeptic.

loml · 12-23-2007, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

If CS was invented because of the written format of English, then that would mean we are asking deaf children to acquire language through the written form first?

shel90- Cued Speech was not invented because of the written format of Enlglish, but because Dr. Cornett was concernd by the low level of Enlgish literacy amongst some deaf children.

loml · 12-23-2007, 06:16 PM

dup

loml · 12-23-2007, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Here we go, loml....from the Acoustic Characteristics thread, post # 871.Originally Posted by Kaitin
This makes sense to me. If cued speech is not a language then it should be used after ASL and English is learned? Do you agree, Loml?

No I do not agree Kaitin.

And this is but one of your numerous posts that convey your philosophy of Cued Speech being used for langauge acquisiton and ASL not being introduced until a strong foundation of oral English is in place.

jillio - I would still answer Kaitlins' question with a no.

For your own needs, you insert your interpretation of my statements, claiming that this is what I have said.

loml · 12-23-2007, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

And that has absolutely nothing to do with Banjo's ability to critical analyze that which he has observed.

Are you implying that my statement is referring to Banjos' ability to critical analyze?

loml · 12-23-2007, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Banjo never said that Cloggy is him. Banjo is voicing his opinions based on observations. Big difference.

shel90- I was eluding to Banjo having not walked in Cloggys' shoes and vica versa.

Cheri · 12-23-2007, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loml

shel90- I was eluding to Banjo having not walked in Cloggys' shoes and vica versa.

Parents will naturally want their child to be as much like themselves as possible and will probably choose oralism, Most of us know that for fact because we have hearing parents, What Banjo stated was 100 percent correct-- You must walk a mile in another person's shoes before you can understand what it means to be that person. Only deaf people understand what it means to be deaf because deaf people know the full communication access and quality for themselves.

jillio · 12-23-2007, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loml

jillio - I would still answer Kaitlins' question with a no.

For your own needs, you insert your interpretation of my statements, claiming that this is what I have said.

The words are right there. No interpretation needed. Direct question, direct answer.

jillio · 12-23-2007, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loml

shel90- Cued Speech was not invented because of the written format of Enlglish, but because Dr. Cornett was concernd by the low level of Enlgish literacy amongst some deaf children.

Which again stresses the fact that it was never intended for language acquisition, nor for the teaching of speech skills. One must have a langauge before one can become literate.

12-23-2007, 03:35 PM	#76 (permalink)
Cheri Prayers for my dad. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 22,546	well said!! Banjo! He's our deaf hero. __________________ God didn't promise days without pain, laughter without sorrow and sun without rain, But God did promise strength for the day, comfort for the tears and light for the way.

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12-23-2007, 02:56 PM	#63 (permalink)
Banjo Mr. Movie Guy Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 5,884 Blog Entries: 1	Cloggy, It's a wonder why people would listen to you after all that conspiracy theories you spew out about 9/11 and that it was an insider job. You tried to say it was true. You have absolutely no credibility here at Alldeaf.com. This isn't a personal attack, but it's quite clear you are only here to provoke the members by belittling their intelligence on a daily basis. Enough is enough. It's quite clear you are no longer welcome here because of your hostility toward the other members simply because you don't agree with them. You treat them like second-class citizens. You are not deaf. Your daughter is, not but you. You seem to keep forgetting that. Therefore, your knowledge on deafness is much, much more limited whether you like it or not. You have demonstrated how limited your knowledge is on many occasions. Even hearing parents like Jillo know that and they know better not to cross that line with us. What I'm saying is, we don't need hearing parents coming in here and tell us you know what's the best for deaf children. Especially when we are deaf. We should be debating in a civilized manner, but with that attitude of yours, we are getting nowhere. Instead, you keep pointing fingers and provoking members then try to turn the table on them and say they started it. It always has been you. Always been you. Truth is, you have no people skills. You haven't shown any of that at all. All you have managed to do is offend and provoke more and more people. You are in fact, saying that we are not qualified to give out any advices. Yet you are. You blatantly ignore the first-hand experiences of many deaf members here. We have quite a few CI users here and they are nowhere as hostile as you and the other hearing parents like Rick48 have been. Heck, Rick got banned because he couldn't resist urging insults and attack people even though he was already warned. Some people are just ill tempered. They have no self-control. The reason why CI users are perfectly welcome here is because they know what’s it’s like to be deaf even though our experiences differ on a large scale, but we all know what it’s like to be deaf. So do your daughter. I just hope she won’t turn out to be such an arrogant person like you are and I truly hope she will be an independent woman and is unafraid to tell you what’s on her mind. Even if the truth hurts. You have long forgotten what it’s like to be a child. They seem so innocent and carefree. Then once they grow up, they start to see you differently and realize your flaws as a parent. That day will come for you. Not now, not anytime soon. But someday, the truth will strike you where it hurts the most. Not trying to dampen your day, but I just had to say it. Wake up and smell the coffee, the world doesn’t revolve around you. Not everybody share the same views as you do. You are not an expert on deafness. Your daughter is. She knows what it’s like because she has the first-hand experience of it. You may try to understand it, but you truly won’t until you experience it. Here’s an advice, start treating people the way you want to be treated. Then you might be surprised what a difference it makes. Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

12-23-2007, 03:34 PM	#75 (permalink)
jillio Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 32,289	Here we go, loml....from the Acoustic Characteristics thread, post # 871.Originally Posted by Kaitin This makes sense to me. If cued speech is not a language then it should be used after ASL and English is learned? Do you agree, Loml? No I do not agree Kaitin. And this is but one of your numerous posts that convey your philosophy of Cued Speech being used for langauge acquisiton and ASL not being introduced until a strong foundation of oral English is in place. The problem with that is, deaf children are able to acquire ASL and must be taught English, even if it is the only language they are exposed to. This is a directive process tthat results in less than fluent use of any language because the process of acquisition has not been attended to.

12-23-2007, 04:11 PM	#79 (permalink)
*LinuxGold* Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Felton, DE Posts: 1,689	I 100% support Banjo. A dog can't consult a cat how it's like to be a cat simply because dog's relative is a cat.