ClearSky

I think you are missing that the boy can hear. What are the likelyhood that he's going to encounter ASL signers throughout his life? lowderra states that. He's going to have other technologies to help him communicate with others. What are the likelyhood that I use sign as a deaf person? Zero. Nobody uses signs, and it's so rare that a person knows the language.

I really don't believe this boy needs to learn ASL. If he wants to later in life, then so be it. High school offers those classes. Right now, the importance is how he communicates with his parents. The boy needs a system to express himself in English right now in PSE or SEE because that's what he'll be learning and hearing everyday. His parents will not need to use PSE or SEE later on as the boy become fluent with PSE or SEE because he'll hear them, but they need to use it now to show him how to sign. The problem is the boy's communication. To make it easier on the educators and parents, it makes a lot of sense to use PSE or SEE.

lowderra, Cued Speech is not hard to learn either. Cued Speech has 8 handshapes that you can learn in about a week (yes!). The boy can modulate the words while using Cued Speech near his face. That's not hard to learn either. Cued Speech can be used to show what you're saying with any words and language. It's not limited to just English, so if he wants to say a french word, he can say so with Cued Speech.

I think lowderra is thinking about this really well thinking of the boy's needs and his future. Don't let anyone confuse you. I think you're on the right track knowing about the boy's case better than I could help originally. I had a lot of questions that I couldn't just say SEE or ASL. I think PSE is the best choice unless you might consider Cued Speech.

Deafness

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deafdyke

Thank you lowderra! CS is not used too commonly. It IS like Esperanto! (ie out there, but not used all that much, compared to Sign and speech)
Yes, but he has a receptive language model to work from. He's exposed to spoken English! This is just giving him a way to talk!!!!!!!!!!
It would be like.....a billingal kid asking his father in English where to get apples, and him responding in Spanish. I mean there's no worry with those Tech Talkers that their speech won't develop, right?

ClearSky

It doesn't matter if Cued Speech is like Esperanto. Cued Speech is NOT a language. Cued Speech is a tool to show you what a person is saying using 8 phonetics handshapes even in any language. It's easy to learn. It has no barrier, except not everyone will use it plus it is the same with ASL. Not everyone uses ASL either.

Many times it's recommended that children of other countries speak English at home instead of their foreign language to master their English skills. Besides, the child is likely to use signs less as he grows older because of voice technology. Why spend extra time learning something that's likely not going to be used later anymore?

loml

GNU,

My interpretation, from the way you slice and dice my inputs, is that you do not have the faintest understanding of my position on anything.

Until you actually expand your mind and take a CE/CS course, this really is not going to move forward for either of us.

Until then.

__________________
- Dr. Edward C. Merrill, Jr. past president of Gallaudet

loml

Absolutely! Even though not everyone use it, many people in North America and beyond use English. CE/CE teaches English or French or Hebrew or or or.......

__________________
- Dr. Edward C. Merrill, Jr. past president of Gallaudet

loml

lowderraThe fact that he is hearing has does not mean cueing is not a viable option. Cueing gives multiple stimulations: visual, kinesthetic and auditory. Cueing addresses all learning styles.

also.....

lowderraI understand that time and energy has been spent here, on everyones part. My question to you though is this, if he was your son, and there was another tool that could be added to his toolbox that may be of extreme benefit to him, would you learn it and share your skill with him?

jat

__________________
- Dr. Edward C. Merrill, Jr. past president of Gallaudet

lowderra

Actually, whether I agree with everyone, or whether you agree with me - this thread has been enormously helpful.

I think, after reading all the input - we'll stick with what we are doing. Which is basically PSE. I have Joy of Sign and ABC of ASL to work out of, and I think we'll focus on vocabulary and ditch the linking words and ignore word endings for now.

With this base, he'll be able to communicate, and with a rich vocabulary he'll be able to choose PSE, SEE, or ASL as he gets older. He'll have the vocab and just need to learn grammer and endings.

I think this will work best because multiple people have to learn sign (2 nurses, both parents, therapists, etc.)

I'll keep cued speech in mind - maybe in a year, when the trach is out and not so much of my shift is spent doing trach care, maintaining the central line, giving meds, etc. It's just right now we have to CHOOSE A FOCUS. And I think right now both he and his parents would prefer good communication between them.....to decided what is "best", "right", or "politically correct" or a "real language." Yes, I love him as if he were my own son, but we have to choose a workable solution for RIGHT NOW for him and his parents.

I look forward to chatting with all of you in the future, and again, your input has been immensely helpful. From me, my patient, and his family......

Thank you!

Rose Immortal

It seems to me that if he learns PSE, he can learn ASL later. In fact, it could even be a way for him to get his foreign language credit in high school or college. And if he does continue to practice some signing even after he turns to other means of communication, if he likes it he may have an advantage and be at the top of the class.

This is totally un-grounded advice because I'm not an expert, but I highly suggest exposing him to the written word as soon as you get communication going in a way that you can see will work well for both of you. Literacy will be of KEY importance and visual/writing exposure to grammatical concepts like articles and word endings early on would probably be very helpful.

gnulinuxman

You have some very good ideas, RoseImmortal. I would agree literacy is key for anyone, especially him.

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--Danny

Rose Immortal

I guessed this particular one off of my own background. I am not dhh, but had problems with language acquisition because of severe ADHD. I got some vocabulary but had no command over grammar--not even simple concepts like the difference between a sentence and a question, or the differences between the pronouns. Basically I wasn't able to hold my attention on something long enough to pick up on those nuances. At least that's what we guess.

My mother had majored in early childhood education and picked up on it WAY before most parents ever would've known something was wrong. She started teaching me to read at 2 or 2 1/2, and the weirdest thing happened: for some reason reading made me sit down and concentrate! That gave me a way to put all of the concepts together. I still remember the book "He Bear, She Bear" that my mom used to teach me gender pronouns. The combination of hearing her read, seeing the words, and seeing the pictures did the trick. To this day I still frame my thoughts in written form first...THEN the little voice in my mind does the voice-over.

Interpretrator

Generally speaking it's actually easier to learn ASL first and then contact sign and/or signed English later, assuming you also know English. It's easier to learn the rules of ASL along with the vocabulary, and then later plug the signs into an English word order, so to speak. Otherwise you end up having to break a lot of "Englishy" signing habits when you learn ASL.

This is a generalization, though, not a recommendation for these kids necessarily.

Demise

Well if I were you, I'd teach them in SEE, but in their level of understanding. So that way when they grow up in mainstream school in hearing classes, they will not have a problem writing in English and a conversation with hearing person. But if you teach them in ASL, they'll keep their old habit. Old habit dies hard...

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loml

Interpretrator,

I agree with you. Unfortunately, the majority of deaf children do not have a native ASL model. That is the reality, a workable, doable solution needs to be implemented.

__________________
- Dr. Edward C. Merrill, Jr. past president of Gallaudet

Interpretrator

I totally agree. (And is why I won't interpret for K-12.)

Which ideally would include a native ASL model.

Please note I wasn't offering a solution, just making a generalization.

Sweetmind

My hearing daughters learned ASL since four/six months old and are very successful with their written English . They have very good receptive eyes and they can understand when d/Deaf people use ASL. Communication is a key for those d/Deaf children and hearing children that helps a lot more than you think.


I did taking my responsibility to teach my two hearing children ASL. I have watched everything how they processed to learn with their own visual eyes first before speak. It works so well for them to understand the concept of langauge before English language. I am proud of what I had accomplished for my hearing children 's best interest and given them to accomplish their own reading and creation of writing that they read the books at 3 years old on their own. I am d/Deaf mother and Grandmother who knows the best, too so therefore I was a deaf child as well as I know what it s alike to be deaf not just Hearing parents who are ignorant and dont know what it s alike to be deaf.

Ears does not think but Brain does.

Loml is hearing and thinks she knows it all after all she isnt deaf.

Thank you!
Sweetmind

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"Tell the mothers I said, "Don't try to change your child; you are the adult, you bear the burden of change" - Harlan Lane

jillio

This child can hear. He perceives and processes language as an auditory stimulus--quite differently than the deaf child. His problem is with expressive language. Because he uses receptive language the same way a hearing child would, he understands the grammatical structure of English. That is what he is exposed to. For the Deaf child, ASL is the best option because they process language--both receptive and expressive--in a visual mode. ASL is a language that paints a picture, you understand it by seeing it. English is a language that describes the picture. This child can hear the description. He only needs visable language to express himself, not to uderstand others.

jillio

Sure makes me tired! I don't even like to think in English when I am communicating in ASL. It's confusing!!

Obiwan100

this involves a hearing child, this subject is always going to initate a controversy.