Cheri

I mean kids are little people who deserve respect and consideration like anyone else.

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jillio

Yeah, I know! I was being sarcastic. Sorry

Capmeister

It's a good point.

I was talking to a friend today about some of the issues here and how my brother has told me if someone could wave a magic wand and give him perfect hearing, he wouldn't want it if he couldn't turn it off. My friend asked why.

To demonstrate why, I lightly tapped his shoulder with my fingers. O said: "There. You now have a new sense. It's not hurting you. Would you like it to continue that way forever?" I continued tapping. "People are telling you this is meaningful and a gift." Tap tap tap. "It's a miricle and you're better with it than without it." Tap tap tap. "Those taps have meaning. Work for several years trying to figure out the meaning." Tap tap tap. "How's it working for you?" Tap tap tap.

He said, "Yeah, I get the point. It makes sense."

jillio

Wow! I'll have to remember that one! Great analogy.

Capmeister

If my child were born deaf, I'd strongly consider giving him a CI early as possible so that the brain adapted well for it, if the risk to his health would be minimal.

I'd also teach him sign, and talk at the same time, and foster all forms of communication.

I'd also ask him, when he was old enough, if he wanted a second CI, or wanted to remove the CI's external parts, or if he just wanted to decide later--or never.

But the world IS easier if you're hearing. It's a hearing world, no doubt. I'd want to give him the best possible chances to be as he wishes to be.

It's no crime to admit that deafness is a disability. It hampers communication in many ways, with hearing people. Less so every day, thanks to technology. But if a bionic ear could help my child, and not hurt him, I'd likely do it. I see no reason not to--it's not like if, with my brother, it's not a good experience it can't be just not used.

By the same token, I'd not work on my child's new hearing abilities in a way that would lessen his learning about life. If things can develop well because of a baby's adaptability, I think a CI is of value. If it cannot--it was worth a shot, I think. But I would never let a child of mine think it wasn't totally okay to feel the CI wasn't of value and not use it.

Capmeister

Thanks. By the way, my friend has some hearing loss thanks to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9ni%C3%A8re's_disease and if he loses enough, he might need a CI. :-)

For him it would be fantasic. I think for some deaf people--even born deaf--it can be a blessing. Just not for everyone.

Boult

just making it clickable

Meniere's disease - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Boult

+1

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Cheri

Just the CI external parts? The implant will still be stuck in that head of his, how fair is that? If can be removed, which I doubt it, then does he want to exposed to the risks of surgery again?

Plus There is no test a person can take before surgery that will predict how well he or she will understand language after surgery. It is unknown whether it'll work for your son as it'll work for those who had it. What if it doesn't work for your son? Wouldn't it be a wasted? a disappointing?


And you know how kids love to play with water, and water can damage the external parts, It'll gonna be expensive to repair it, and then again he'll be without hearing. How can you be able to watch your child 24/7 to make sure he is takes care of his CI? You can't.

I'm not trying to be harsh, if I was I apology.

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Capmeister

Thanks! Usually it's so good about parsing it into a link itself, I thought it would.

Capmeister

My brother has lived with a CI in his head for 20 years. Other than it being occasionally irritating (it can buzz a bit sometimes he says), most of the time he's unaware of it. It can be removed, and if an MRI is needed, most modern CI's are safe for that once the magnet is removed--something quick and relatively easy to do.

Is it a risk? Sure. Might it very well be a risk worth taking? Sure. It's risky every time we drive somewhere, but we cart our kids around, don't we? Life involves risks and as a parent one weighs risks and benefits for their children. If I had a deaf child, I'd do what I could--within reason--to give him the broadest possible options and opportunities.

I'd also teach him that deafness isn't a curse, that it's okay to say "this technology is great but it isn't for me," to feel confident that he can do anything but hear (naturally), to laugh at himself, to consider himself a HUMAN (who happens to be deaf) and not a deaf human, and to realize that we ALL have hardships to overcome, some easier than others, and what's most important is living a happy, moral life.

As a quick aside, about the "not a curse, laugh at yourself" thing, my brother likes to say "I'm not hearing impaired--I don't have any hearing to impair. I'm deaf as a stone." He's neither proud of it nor ashamed of it. It just IS. He's comfortable in his own skin. It's the way people should be.

Yup--would be a waste of time, money and effort. Still, worth a shot to make things easier in life. There's no doubt that life is easier in a hearing world if you can have some ability to hear and learn to speak. No doubt. What one must weigh is how much time, and effort, should be put into getting that value. I think some. Just not to exclusion of living, enjoyment, and most importantly LEARNING.

Would I be disappointed if it didn't work? Sure--a bit. I wouldn't cry over it. It's a tool some can use. If it works, bonus, if not, worth a try. Would he be disappointed? Well, we're talking about a person who doesn't exist--I don't know. Hell, I'm not even seeing anyone, let alone married. Probably the implant would be given so young that if it didn't work he might never know until older. I'd just make sure, like I say, that using it or not was explained as being totally okay either way.

Kids get casts for broken bones that shouldn't get wet either. You do what you can. You teach your kids. I wore glasses at age 10 that I had to learn to take care of, too. I managed it. As for "again being without hearing" well that would be his natural state. That would happen a lot--in the shower, if swimming--sleeping at night. Perhaps to his liking--I know sometimes I wish I could turn off my hearing. Again, the benefits of the thing might far outweigh the hassles.

And, who is to say that seeing if this is the right thing--and perhaps learning it's not--isn't a positive? Like I said in this or another thread, I asked my brother recently if getting a CI and learning he didn't LIKE to hear perhaps made him more confident that he was fine the way he was and didn't need to "be fixed." He said that was a good posibility. When lots of hearies learn your deaf and then say "oh, sorry" there is perhaps a freeing quality to being able to say "don't be--I tried it your way and don't like it. "

Not at all! All good questions!

Capmeister

By the way... I asked my brother that if he someday has a deaf child, would HE consider giving it a CI at a young age? He said, "yeah, probably." Same reasons as I've stated. Just because it wasn't right for him--probably because he was too old for it even at age 9--doesn't mean it's not right for anyone who is profoundly deaf.

rockdrummer

I'm sorry but I don't see that happening at my son's school. Perhaps this is something that occurs in pockets.

jillio

You are very lucky in the educational environment that you have been able to obtain for your son. I would suggest that his situation would be the one occurring in pockets, and the situation shel describes as being more widespread. I, too, have encountered the same situation as shel, and it has occurred over a span of several states.

rockdrummer

I didn't say anything about terps but since you mention it, It's believed that Interpreting - Academic Paper - The Importance of Sign Language Interpreters for Deaf Clients: History, Roles, Responsibilities and Relationships

The various forms of sign I speak of are American Signed English; Seeing Essential English (SEE1); Signing Exact English (SEE2); Linguistics of Visual English (LOVE); Conceptually Accurate Signed English (CASE) etc.

If you research the history of ASL as I did, you will see it was evolved by hearing people but derived from signs that originated from deaf populations. Read this history on ASL. It is consistant with several other sources. Deaf History - History of Sign Language

If you check into the history of cc you will find that is not true. A Brief History of Captioned Television

Actually I have researched the history of hearing aids and perhaps you would change your position if you checked yourself. Here are some resources.
American Chronicle: Looking at the History of Hearing Aids: The Past, Present, and Future of Hearing Aid Technology
Hearing Aid Timeline
Hearing Aids - History


see above.

rockdrummer

Cheri, we make a choice for our children if we go with a CI or not. I'ts still a choice. As parents our children are our responsibility and as such we make choices for them all of the time. Think about the choices you make for your own children and the reasons you make those choices.

rockdrummer

Much of what he said isn't factual.

rockdrummer

No they are not but our children are our responsibility and any good parent would want to do what they feel is in the best interest of their child. To not get a CI is also a choice that you make for your children. If the choice is made without investigating all of the issues then its not a good choice IMO.

jillio

Huh?

jillio

That wasn't a serious question. I was kidding with Cheri.

rockdrummer

Read my response to his post
ASL, SEE Sign, & Signed English

rockdrummer

Ah yes.. humor.. almost forgot about that... lol

Cheri

I don't make choices on non-emergency surgeries when it comes to my children. I let my children decide that.

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rockdrummer

I understand your position on the surgury aspect however there is much more than just the surgury to consider.

flip

Look careful at the sentence you typed: "A Deaf cave person would ask a hearing person to act as an interpreter"

It was not the hearing person who asked the deaf person if he wanted an interpreter...

It's actually oposite. You have a truly vivid imagination if you find claims in those sources, that the grammars of ASL, like classifiers, was invented by hearing people. Read your sources a bit more careful, please.

Can it be you are a bit confused about the difference between "various forms of sign" and ASL?

It hasn't hit you that NAD and other deaf organizations maybe lurked behind the curtains? I do not find any evidence here that it is not true that deaf people demanded CC, and was heard by the politicans. I am not sure what you are trying to prove with this?

???? What does those links prove, except showing the evolution of the technology itself? Hearing aids are mostly created by smart people that have lost some hearings. They work in companies like Phonak, Phillips, Starkey, etc.

Maybe you should do some studying on what "research" and "factual" means?

shel90

If u can give me background to what's going on at your son's school, maybe I can answer your questions better or understand where u are coming from. I remember u mentioned that your son is learning at a slow pace. Is that due to the school's doing?

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rockdrummer

Never did I say that terps were brought to you by the hearing. You are the one that brought up terps. I just provided some information that I found on the history.

Please re-read what I said. ASL was evolved by hearing people but the basis was derived from the deaf communities. I am agreeing with you on the roots of ASL but not on the evolution of it. I hope that is clear. If not then please research the history of ASL and draw your conclusion from that. If the sources I provided are not accurate please porvide me with sources that have differing information. I'm not really a hard guy to convince if you provide me with the information and sources that contradict what I have found. As far as various forms of sign... if you say I am confused then what would you call the things that I listed?
Just as there is no evidence that it is true that NAD lurked. At least I have not come across it yet. Lack of a fact doesn't make it true and maybe is only specutlation. Show me sources that contradict what I provided and I will be more than happy to entertain them.

That statement shows me that you didn't even read through those links. If you had you would know that the hearing aid was not invented by a deaf scientist as you claim. You would find that they are not even sure exactly who invented the hearing aid. They started as horn shaped objects fashioned from wood most likely by a HOH person. Not a deaf scientist as you claim. Read through the information and if you don't agree with it, that's ok. Show me proof including sources that contradict what I have found and I am more than happy to check into it. Just stating what you belive to be true without evidence to back it up is not what I would consider a reliable source. Please don't take that personally. I always need sources to back up claims such as what you have made. I read your claims, investigated them and found sources that contradict them. Thus my response. I am open to reviewing any sources you may have that back up what you claim.

rockdrummer

I'm not sure what questions you are referring to. My comment above was based you you saying that oral skills are taking priority. At my son's school they take the total communication approach and speach therapy is a very small piece of that. Additionally, they adjust depending on what is working. The one thing that bothers me is that his current teacher doesn't know ASL therefore I'm sure he is not being exposed to that.

jillio

I am going to have to disagree on the evolution of ASL. Hearing culture has nothing to do with the evolution of ASL. Only with the artifical forms of signs that are derived from ASL.

rockdrummer

Please show me evidence of that.