Accent reduction course

Reba · 06-11-2006, 04:20 PM

What is your opinion of this?

Do you think it is necessary to reduce accents for career success?

Quote:

SUNDAY, JUNE 04, 2006 12:00 AM

Accent reduction course helps eliminate career hurdle

By Margarita Bauza
Detroit Free Press

DETROIT - When Xiaoyun Shen's boss asked her to take an accent reduction class, she was a little flustered.

"I didn't know I had a problem," said Shen, a 43-year-old senior scientist at biotech company Asterand Inc.

Shen's arsenal of degrees includes an M.D. and a master's degree from Chinese universities, a Ph.D. from a British university and three post-doctorates from universities in Britain, Canada and the United States.

But when it came to communicating, the degrees lost some of their luster. Colleagues and supervisors asked her to repeat repeatedly and strained to understand her.

At the conclusion of her first week of a 10-week course with Ann Arbor, Mich.-based Accent Reduction Institute, Shen realized she had a problem.

"I couldn't do an R or an L at all," said Shen, who supervises three scientists who perform research on human tissue. Before she took the course, her pronunciation of the word "heart" sounded like "hat" and "car pool" like "cah-poo."

Asterand runs a human tissue bank for research on the genetic causes of diseases such as cancer and operates a 55-person lab in Detroit and one in Britain. It has 100 employees worldwide. The company paid $1,800 for the 10-week course to teach Shen and her colleague Philip Saywrayne Jr., an accountant from Liberia, to soften their accents.

Asterand CEO Randal Charlton said he heard about the course and didn't hesitate to offer it even though he was concerned initially about hurting his employees' feelings.

"I was a bit worried," Charlton said. "There could be an implied criticism. Good diction is critical. Both of these individuals are very talented and this will help them advance their careers."

The class is a step beyond courses that teach English as a second language and focuses on teaching tongues, lips and teeth how to form the closest thing to an American sound.

In a recent class, Accent Reduction President and instructor Judy Ravin helped students pronounce the letter R by mimicking the sounds of an angry dog. "ARRR!" she snarled, and they growled back.

Ravin's company, which she created in 1999 after leaving her job teaching accent reduction at Eastern Michigan University in Ypsilanti, grew slowly in the early years. She made $8,000 her first year. But in 2005, with four part-time employees, earnings of $70,000, 10 corporate clients and 50 individual clients, Ravin sold her company to Ann Arbor-based software developer Menlo Associates for an undisclosed sum.

Nine months later, the company has 12 full- and part-time employees, projected earnings of $500,000, 27 corporate clients and 75 individual clients.

Since the purchase, Accent Reduction Institute has developed a program that promises to get rid of accents in 28 days. The company has a line of software that has been adopted by more than 30 businesses and universities across the country, including General Motors, DaimlerChrysler, Daewoo Heavy Industries America, Cisco Systems and Federal Mogul.

Ravin also has contracts with dozens of universities to certify instructors in teaching accent reduction. The institute charges $1,500 to certify teachers using the Ravin method. To enroll in her course, candidates must be licensed language teachers or certified speech pathologists.

"It's not about removing the accent," said Ravin. "It's about eliminating a language barrier."

An accent that is too hard to understand often presents a real hurdle in a person's career, holding a person back from promotions, projects or opportunities to lead, Ravin said.

"If people have to keep telling you 'what?,' 'excuse me?,' forget it. You won't get the job or promotion," Ravin said.

Saywrayne says the course has helped his job performance. Like Shen, he has trouble pronouncing the R sound.

"It's improved my confidence," Saywrayne said. "People are not asking me 'what?' all the time. I just have to put my point out once."

This article was printed via the web on 6/11/2006 4:16:09 PM . This article
appeared in The Post and Courier and updated online at Charleston.net on Sunday, June 04, 2006.
http://www.charleston.net/stories/?n...ction=business

sr171soars · 06-11-2006, 04:51 PM

There is truth to this problem especially as we are in a global society. American English is not British English and it is not Indian (India) English (which based on British English!!!). The underlying language of the non native English speakers does distort how it sounds...no way getting around it. I do fine with Queen's English but have trouble with Cockney (which is dying BTW). There are some Indians where I work and I had to adjust to how they say things especially like the "v" sounds (as in virus). They generally don't have the hard "V" in their languages and it comes out different (often like a "w" where virus sounds like wirus). With my CI, I can catch it better but it is still not easy.

I think there is merit in the idea it helps these folks reduce the problematical aspects of their speech which may impact their career potential.

Sweetmind · 06-11-2006, 05:57 PM

Why would people focus on that issue? I love their accent voices because it s different approach that s where they coming from southern or northern. It doesnt bother me at all.. People are different from other people and it doesnt bother me at all.

I had someone who asked me if I was spanish because they thought I had an accent...but it is really just a deaf voice. I gave my warm smile and let him know that I am deaf. No big deal!

Thank You!

Sweetmind

gnulinuxman · 06-11-2006, 06:05 PM

I don't think getting rid of an accent is necessary, as long as the accent doesn't make it impossible to understand you.

sr171soars · 06-11-2006, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetmind

Why would people focus on that issue? I love their accent voices because it s different approach that s where they coming from southern or northern. It doesnt bother me at all.. People are different from other people and it doesnt bother me at all.

I had someone who asked me if I was spanish because they thought I had an accent...but it is really just a deaf voice. I gave my warm smile and let him know that I am deaf. No big deal!

Thank You!

Sweetmind

Er...you don't have any clue!

For those who can hear well enough (with HA or CI) to carry on verbal conversations, it is not a trivial issue. Even hearing people have problems with non native speakers. If you read the article, you would see that it is an issue. Another thing, accents can also effect word formation for lipreading. Now, that is not trivial for those that depend on it.

If one cannot make themselves easily understood speaking a language which they aren't totally fluent especially in pronunciation, then there is a barrier for them. It is this barrier that brings up the whole issue which should be easily understood by those who are deaf!

sr171soars · 06-11-2006, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnulinuxman

I don't think getting rid of an accent is necessary, as long as the accent doesn't make it impossible to understand you.

The focus of the article isn't to totally get rid of the accent. Rather, the issue is to make sure that a non-native speaker of a language can be understood by the native speaker in general. If one can't be easily understood, then that is a barrier for the person whether they like it or not.

ismi · 06-12-2006, 12:48 AM

They do this in language classes. Not a big deal. As the others have said, it makes the difference between communicating and being frustrated - with both hearing and HOH. Hell, Sweetmind: I'm sure I've seen you complain about the difficulty of understanding accents as a reason that oral training sucks.

deafdyke · 06-12-2006, 03:28 AM

I have to say, I don't mind talking to people who have mild accents, but people who have thick accents.....UGH!!!! Even hearing people are like "WTF did you say?"

deafdyke · 06-12-2006, 03:30 AM

Oh, and in a related thing.....I think on public transportation, they should use a "public speaker" style recording.....sometimes it is VERY hard to undy people b/c they have soft voices or accents or whatever.

gnulinuxman · 06-12-2006, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sr171soars

The focus of the article isn't to totally get rid of the accent. Rather, the issue is to make sure that a non-native speaker of a language can be understood by the native speaker in general. If one can't be easily understood, then that is a barrier for the person whether they like it or not.

Who are you, the Forum Police? I was just stating my opinion.

sr171soars · 06-12-2006, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnulinuxman

Who are you, the Forum Police? I was just stating my opinion.

Nope...er sorry about the tone. Just pointing out what you obviously missed from the article and correcting your non sequitur. It wasn't talking about eliminating the accent altogether and it would be impractical to ask that of anybody (mind you some can do it but most couldn't). But rather it was about reducing the accent to a managable level for native listeners to understand a non native speaker of the language.

Your statement in of itself was fine...

Sweetmind · 06-15-2006, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Er...you don't have any clue!

Look up the mirror and say it aloud to yourself. For pete s sake!

Quote:

For those who can hear well enough (with HA or CI) to carry on verbal conversations, it is not a trivial issue. Even hearing people have problems with non native speakers. If you read the article, you would see that it is an issue. Another thing, accents can also effect word formation for lipreading. Now, that is not trivial for those that depend on it.

If one cannot make themselves easily understood speaking a language which they aren't totally fluent especially in pronunciation, then there is a barrier for them. It is this barrier that brings up the whole issue which should be easily understood by those who are deaf!

I dont agree with you since we do not hear everything with devices if you dont mind. I dont have to follow your strong domination over deaf children s needs since you dont know the truth.

I do sometimes understand their accent because it s fun to read their lips. It s totally different, the way they pronounced their own accent. I have no objection about their accent because I respect their own culture that they were brought up with if you dont mind. Speech impairment, Lipreading, and Listening are not the effective for us Deaf people 100 percent anyhow.

I have seen that there are some there who are open-minded but most are closed minded which is so sad.

Accents are beautiful. It is my opinion that the listener has the responsibility to interpret correctly. Also If everyone had the same accent that would not mean a thing for understanding. Who is to say accent is " the one" that everyone "should" have. Those devices dont change your deaf voice."

You are driving me up the walls about devices that you depend on too much for hearing people s prejudice against others being different. Thats not what I am learning from my own true feelings if you dont mind.

By the way, the idea of making something "perfect" is false. it aint gonna happen.. Face reality is what people need to do.

I am so grateful, that is not what I taught my hearing children, to bicker on people being different.

Also, what if the batteries go out on the HA or CI (it uses batteries, right??) People are prejudiced against something less than perfect and something not being the way they want it to be. I do not feel that seriously, they should not try to brainwash you. I have already made my mind.

People need to accept people for who are: different from them.

Sweetmind

Boult · 06-15-2006, 07:06 PM

eh?

sr171soars · 06-15-2006, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boult

eh?

Agreed Boult! Talk about non sequiturs...most of what she said has no bearing on the subject...

sr171soars · 06-15-2006, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetmind

...
I dont agree with you since we do not hear everything with devices if you dont mind. I dont have to follow your strong domination over deaf children s needs since you dont know the truth.

Has nothing to do with the thread whatsoever and it is just another one of your idiotic statements that you rehash over and over again...

BTW - I have no idea what you are talking about in respect to deaf kids...I have hearing kids and other than here I'm not in the deaf community. A total farce of a statement coming from you...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetmind

I do sometimes understand their accent because it s fun to read their lips. It s totally different, the way they pronounced their own accent. I have no objection about their accent because I respect their own culture that they were brought up with if you dont mind. Speech impairment, Lipreading, and Listening are not the effective for us Deaf people 100 percent anyhow.

Again, I will repeat the mantra "YOU HAVE NO CLUE" about what you are talking about. It doesn't matter what langauge anybody speaks but accents or variations of generally understood language sound intonations throws off any native speaker. If it gets to the point that a hearing native speaker can't understand such a non-native speaker, then there is a problem of communication (and of course it more so for those who use HAs or CIs). I find it highly amusing to see somebody who swears off hearing sounds think they know something about it....YOU DON'T

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetmind

I have seen that there are some there who are open-minded but most are closed minded which is so sad.

This is a nonsense by any other definition. It has nothing to do with open mindedness but rather an issue of communication pure and simple. The article speaks of reducing accents to increase native speakers comprehension not eliminate it. I like accents when I understand them and I'm apparently one of the few HOH (now deaf using CI) types that does well with accents.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetmind

Accents are beautiful. It is my opinion that the listener has the responsibility to interpret correctly. Also If everyone had the same accent that would not mean a thing for understanding. Who is to say accent is " the one" that everyone "should" have. Those devices dont change your deaf voice."

If you can't hear them (and you BOAST of not using "devices"), then you are the last person to say anything about it. That is not the point of the article!!! Nobody saying they are not...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetmind

You are driving me up the walls about devices that you depend on too much for hearing people s prejudice against others being different. Thats not what I am learning from my own true feelings if you dont mind.

By the way, the idea of making something "perfect" is false. it aint gonna happen.. Face reality is what people need to do.

...

Also, what if the batteries go out on the HA or CI (it uses batteries, right??) People are prejudiced against something less than perfect and something not being the way they want it to be. I do not feel that seriously, they should not try to brainwash you. I have already made my mind.

Your problem not mine. I like being able to hear and I function just fine in the hearing world thank you. I know I'm deaf but so what? I can do things with my CI that I couldn't do as well when I had a HA. It has given me an opportunity to keep my dream of staying in the hearing world. You keep forgetting my world is the hearing world...I have NEVER been in the deaf community so I'm not missing anything and not pushing out anybody either!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetmind

People need to accept people for who are: different from them.
Sweetmind

Again, you missed the whole point as usual. It is not about accepting them because of the accents but rather enhancing communications which is the main issue.

loml · 06-15-2006, 08:33 PM

sr171soars

ismi · 06-15-2006, 11:16 PM

Sr171 covered pretty much everything, but just in case he didn't mention this: not understanding someone because of their accent doesn't imply disrespect of their culture. And in fact, most accent training that I've seen is motivated for the same reason as basic language study: a desire to communicate in another's language. So not disrespect by the native speaker against the non-native speaker, but respect by the non-native speaker for the native speaker and or the target language.

jazzy · 06-16-2006, 11:58 AM

Dang I wish I would have thought of that in first place and make big $$$$$$. It would be nice for business who employee those people (with heavy accent) to take those reduction accent classes. Sometime it is so frustrate to make a phone call and u can not understand one word they said. Of course I am speaking for my husband. He is fed up with them sometime.

Audiofuzzy · 06-16-2006, 04:37 PM

Quote:

But when it came to communicating, the degrees lost some of their luster. Colleagues and supervisors asked her to repeat repeatedly and strained to understand her.

Quote:

Why would people focus on that issue? I love their accent voices because it s different approach that s where they coming from southern or northern. It doesnt bother me at all.. People are different from other people and it doesnt bother me at all.

Fuzzy

gnulinuxman · 06-16-2006, 05:33 PM

Rose Immortal · 06-18-2006, 12:58 AM

If someone WANTS to take the class then I think it can be a good idea. When I was in college for Spanish, those who wanted the full degree had to go through a phonetics course that was geared towards helping us to reduce our accents. While I was one of the students who had less of a problem, I wanted very much to learn.

Not sure you could force someone though--although the article doesn't imply this lady was forced to, especially given the CEO's initial worries.

Audiofuzzy · 06-18-2006, 01:58 AM

If you apply for a job that require English then you should know from the very beginning what are you getting into. You should deliver what you were asked for, and agreed to do.

Some jobs does not requite perfect English skills, some do.

I think it was VERY nice of the company to suggest language improvement course instead of just firing the lady and hire someone who can do the same job and speak clear English.

Fuzzy

ClearSky · 06-18-2006, 07:03 AM

I don't think it hurts to take an accent reduction course. If it works, way to go. Who wants to go through life being asked, "what?!" if you have an option to soften your accent? It can help improve the quality of your life with people. I admire accent reduction therapists. I think the company was very nice to the lady instead of fire her.

There are some harsh people in the world who want accents reduced completely or those who hate to hear words pronounced differently or those who judge you for it. They are closed-minded people.

Interpretrator · 06-18-2006, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClearSky

There are some harsh people in the world who want accents reduced completely or those who hate to hear words pronounced differently or those who judge you for it. They are closed-minded people.

That is true, and I wouldn't even say they're "harsh," just "ignorant." Absolutely you will still get stereotyped in this country (I can't speak for elsewhere) if you do not have a bland Midwestern accent -- people with Southern accents are dumb hicks, with Brooklyn accents are thugs, with Southern California accents are airheads...and that's just across the U.S.! Never mind the perceptions and stereotypes that are caused by "foreign" accents.

It may not be pleasant, but it's reality that in business management, a heavy accent will likely work against you. Personally I'm amazed that this is still the case given the skyrocketing rate of globalization in American business, but somehow it persists. Certainly ESL classes are trending away from focusing on pronunciation, but it is still very much an issue in today's world.

Rose Immortal · 06-19-2006, 12:55 AM

I hate the accent stereotypes, but sadly they are VERY pervasive. I have the ability to switch mine from New Jersey to Midwest to Alabama at will, and as sad as this is to admit, unless I interview for a company that has a lot of pride in the region, I'm going to keep my Southern accent very firmly in the "OFF" position when I interview.

Demise · 06-24-2006, 06:59 AM

If I got so tired of talking to my boss or telling him repeatedly, I guess I'll get fired for trying to use sign language to communicate with him. (lol) At least he'll know how I feel when he talks to me in voice.

06-11-2006, 05:57 PM	#3 (permalink)
Sweetmind Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 788	Why would people focus on that issue? I love their accent voices because it s different approach that s where they coming from southern or northern. It doesnt bother me at all.. People are different from other people and it doesnt bother me at all. I had someone who asked me if I was spanish because they thought I had an accent...but it is really just a deaf voice. I gave my warm smile and let him know that I am deaf. No big deal! Thank You! Sweetmind __________________ "Tell the mothers I said, "Don't try to change your child; you are the adult, you bear the burden of change" - Harlan Lane

06-11-2006, 06:05 PM	#4 (permalink)
gnulinuxman Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 1,740	I don't think getting rid of an accent is necessary, as long as the accent doesn't make it impossible to understand you. __________________ --Danny

06-16-2006, 05:33 PM	#20 (permalink)
gnulinuxman Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 1,740	__________________ --Danny

06-24-2006, 06:59 AM	#26 (permalink)
Demise as the flower cringes Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 60	If I got so tired of talking to my boss or telling him repeatedly, I guess I'll get fired for trying to use sign language to communicate with him. (lol) At least he'll know how I feel when he talks to me in voice. __________________

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06-11-2006, 04:51 PM	#2 (permalink)
sr171soars Cyborg since March '05 Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 2,376	There is truth to this problem especially as we are in a global society. American English is not British English and it is not Indian (India) English (which based on British English!!!). The underlying language of the non native English speakers does distort how it sounds...no way getting around it. I do fine with Queen's English but have trouble with Cockney (which is dying BTW). There are some Indians where I work and I had to adjust to how they say things especially like the "v" sounds (as in virus). They generally don't have the hard "V" in their languages and it comes out different (often like a "w" where virus sounds like wirus). With my CI, I can catch it better but it is still not easy. I think there is merit in the idea it helps these folks reduce the problematical aspects of their speech which may impact their career potential.

06-12-2006, 12:48 AM	#7 (permalink)
ismi Implanted 7/18/07 Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 749	They do this in language classes. Not a big deal. As the others have said, it makes the difference between communicating and being frustrated - with both hearing and HOH. Hell, Sweetmind: I'm sure I've seen you complain about the difficulty of understanding accents as a reason that oral training sucks.

06-12-2006, 03:28 AM	#8 (permalink)
deafdyke So NOT a Princess! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Trebekistan Posts: 6,685	I have to say, I don't mind talking to people who have mild accents, but people who have thick accents.....UGH!!!! Even hearing people are like "WTF did you say?"

06-12-2006, 03:30 AM	#9 (permalink)
deafdyke So NOT a Princess! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Trebekistan Posts: 6,685	Oh, and in a related thing.....I think on public transportation, they should use a "public speaker" style recording.....sometimes it is VERY hard to undy people b/c they have soft voices or accents or whatever.

06-15-2006, 11:16 PM	#17 (permalink)
ismi Implanted 7/18/07 Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 749	Sr171 covered pretty much everything, but just in case he didn't mention this: not understanding someone because of their accent doesn't imply disrespect of their culture. And in fact, most accent training that I've seen is motivated for the same reason as basic language study: a desire to communicate in another's language. So not disrespect by the native speaker against the non-native speaker, but respect by the non-native speaker for the native speaker and or the target language.

06-16-2006, 11:58 AM	#18 (permalink)
jazzy Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,196	Dang I wish I would have thought of that in first place and make big $$$$$$. It would be nice for business who employee those people (with heavy accent) to take those reduction accent classes. Sometime it is so frustrate to make a phone call and u can not understand one word they said. Of course I am speaking for my husband. He is fed up with them sometime.

06-18-2006, 12:58 AM	#21 (permalink)
Rose Immortal Telepathic Spirit Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,254	If someone WANTS to take the class then I think it can be a good idea. When I was in college for Spanish, those who wanted the full degree had to go through a phonetics course that was geared towards helping us to reduce our accents. While I was one of the students who had less of a problem, I wanted very much to learn. Not sure you could force someone though--although the article doesn't imply this lady was forced to, especially given the CEO's initial worries.

06-18-2006, 01:58 AM	#22 (permalink)
Audiofuzzy Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,968	If you apply for a job that require English then you should know from the very beginning what are you getting into. You should deliver what you were asked for, and agreed to do. Some jobs does not requite perfect English skills, some do. I think it was VERY nice of the company to suggest language improvement course instead of just firing the lady and hire someone who can do the same job and speak clear English. Fuzzy

06-18-2006, 07:03 AM	#23 (permalink)
ClearSky Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,085	I don't think it hurts to take an accent reduction course. If it works, way to go. Who wants to go through life being asked, "what?!" if you have an option to soften your accent? It can help improve the quality of your life with people. I admire accent reduction therapists. I think the company was very nice to the lady instead of fire her. There are some harsh people in the world who want accents reduced completely or those who hate to hear words pronounced differently or those who judge you for it. They are closed-minded people.

06-19-2006, 12:55 AM	#25 (permalink)
Rose Immortal Telepathic Spirit Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,254	I hate the accent stereotypes, but sadly they are VERY pervasive. I have the ability to switch mine from New Jersey to Midwest to Alabama at will, and as sad as this is to admit, unless I interview for a company that has a lot of pride in the region, I'm going to keep my Southern accent very firmly in the "OFF" position when I interview.