Accent reduction course - Page 2

Sweetmind · 06-25-2006, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnulinuxman

I prefer signing with deaf people anyway. If I can't understand their speech and they can't sign, I try writing. If I can't understand their speech, they can't sign, and they can't write, then I start to have communication problems. That's why I want deaf people to have signing and literacy skills. If they are just left with bad speech, I can't communicate at all with them.

Thank you so much! Also oral speaking is more limitation for many of us because they dont want to take their time to listen to us or have a good communication skills between Deaf and Hearing as usual. Thats the barrier of communication that we are not the blamed for 100 percent. I m so sick of their lame excuses about our deafness that can turned into a hearing children.
They are narrowmind as well as we are ability in our hands to communicate and can do anything except hear all along and did the best we could speak in our deaf voices.

sr171soars · 06-25-2006, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetmind

Thank you so much! Also oral speaking is more limitation for many of us because they dont want to take their time to listen to us or have a good communication skills between Deaf and Hearing as usual. Thats the barrier of communication that we are not the blamed for 100 percent. I m so sick of their lame excuses about our deafness that can turned into a hearing children.
They are narrowmind as well as we are ability in our hands to communicate and can do anything except hear all along and did the best we could speak in our deaf voices.

I pray tell what does this have to do with accent reduction??? Too many non sequiturs...

Audiofuzzy · 06-25-2006, 07:14 PM

Quote:

I prefer signing with deaf people anyway. If I can't understand their speech and they can't sign, I try writing.

Quote:

Also oral speaking is more limitation for many of us because they dont want to take their time to listen to us or have a good communication skills between Deaf and Hearing as usual.

What does oral, deaf, signing, got to do with the accent reduction, pray tell?

take a chill pill, SM and Gnu.

Fuzzy

gnulinuxman · 06-25-2006, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

What does oral, deaf, signing, got to do with the accent reduction, pray tell?

Ever hear/read about the deaf accent?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

take a chill pill, SM and Gnu.

Fuzzy

You hate anyone who says anything bad about CI's or oral speech. Try taking your own advice.

Y · 06-25-2006, 09:09 PM

Did you know that Sign Language do have
their own accent, too ? We rarely correct or
change their accent in sign language to
respect theirs.

In the same meantime, this topic reminds me
of Reese Witherspoon who had to change
her Southern accent for the movie "Sweet Home Alabama"
Did she become famous and successful
by change her accent
and/or keep her accent the same as before ?

sr171soars · 06-25-2006, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y

Did you know that Sign Language do have
their own accent, too ? We rarely correct or
change their accent in sign language to
respect theirs.
...

Well, I can imagine that is true (I don't know sign). But when it comes to spoken accents, it is important if enough native intonations are provided for a native speaker to understand a non-native speaker. If not, then there is a great deal of difficulty in understanding the non-native speaker which begs the question..."At what point does communication becomes untenable?" Correct intonations are very critical for clear and concise spoken communication. If a non-native speaker own language intrudes into spoken English, then it is either extremely difficult if not impossible to understand the person. That was the whole point about accent reduction...improve communications and hence better job prospects.

FYI - Heck, the Chinese basically use one written language but have many dialects. Most of the dialects are so different as to be defacto langauges in their own right. Mandarian Chinese is the official language of China while in Hong Kong the native language is Cantonese (also known as Guangzhou). The difference is simply how they speak the intonations.

Interpretrator · 06-25-2006, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y

Did she become famous and successful
by change her accent
and/or keep her accent the same as before ?

It's the job of actors to use different accents for different roles. It's not really comparable to everyday life.

Audiofuzzy · 06-26-2006, 02:29 AM

may I remind the topic is about hearing person, not deaf? I was even wondering why it is here not in "On topic debates" or something like that. Unless Reba had hidden agenda..... and looks like it worked.

I am sure when it comes to hiring deaf person nobody in his/her right mind is going to ask for accent reduction course. Because there is big difference between disability and immigration.

Fuzzy

me_punctured · 06-26-2006, 02:43 AM

The accent reduction course sounds like an excellent investment for everyone's benefit, as long as the employers pay for the course in the best interests of the employee and the company. In the past, employees with foreign accents that rendered their speech overtly unintelligible got laid off, fired, or passed over by younger, less qualifed employees. So I can appreciate how employers can find a creative solution for this sort of a problem.

But if they offered an accent reduction course for deaf people, that's an entirely different matter!

Audiofuzzy · 06-26-2006, 03:17 AM

May I point out accent reduction course is in the best interest of the person who needs this course?

Even if the employer does not provide financial coverage for such services.

This is not the employer's responsibility to provide clear accent of his employee.

It's a free country, and many people are searching for jobs they want. The potential employers have plenty of applicants to choose from.

It's survival of the fittest, and in certain jobs it means best education, best job skills, and if clear speech too - then whoever needs it, better take care of it.
You can't always count on having a nice and generous boss, but you can count on that out there is someone else with your skills and better speech wanting your position.

Fuzzy

Interpretrator · 06-26-2006, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

may I remind the topic is about hearing person, not deaf?

It is not out of the question that a HOH person might consider one of these courses, if she had enough hearing and the desire to eliminate an accent of some kind (not just the "deaf accent" either).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

Unless Reba had hidden agenda..... and looks like it worked.

That is simply rude. Reba has more knowledge and experience than most people here and she is consistently helpful and polite. Her "hidden agenda" was to inform and to make people think. In my opinion you owe her an apology for blaming the negative direction of this thread on her.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

Because there is big difference between disability and immigration.

So ONLY illegal immigrants need accent reduction courses? No legal citizens of the United States ever take them? You are way off here.

Reba · 06-26-2006, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interpretrator

That is true, and I wouldn't even say they're "harsh," just "ignorant." Absolutely you will still get stereotyped in this country (I can't speak for elsewhere) if you do not have a bland Midwestern accent -- people with Southern accents are dumb hicks, with Brooklyn accents are thugs, with Southern California accents are airheads...and that's just across the U.S.! Never mind the perceptions and stereotypes that are caused by "foreign" accents.

True. It's most noticable in the "generic" non-accents of national news casters.

The prejudice is not really anything new. Just the type of training and wide-spread use is new.

When I was at Defense Information School (in Indianapolis), each of us had to do a radio broadcast audition. I didn't really want to do it (I was there was for public affairs, print media training) but it was required so they could find fresh "talent" for AFRTS billets (remember Good Morning Vietnam? The real guy was an alumnus of that training). Anyway, I was totally mortified at the end of my audition. The evaluators were laughing amongst themselves, and commenting on my "Joisey" accent (which was actually southeastern CT, oh well). Blah!

Reba · 06-26-2006, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

may I remind the topic is about hearing person, not deaf? I was even wondering why it is here not in "On topic debates" or something like that. Unless Reba had hidden agenda..... and looks like it worked.

No hidden agenda. It is what it is. I thought it was an interesting article. It was in the business section of my paper, and I was interested in current trends in the business world, and how they impact all of us who are in the working world.

I didn't put it into "On topic debates" because I didn't realize it would be a hot debate.

Quote:

I am sure when it comes to hiring deaf person nobody in his/her right mind is going to ask for accent reduction course. Because there is big difference between disability and immigration.

I know that some hearing people have speech impediments, and their employers do require speech therapy for them as they move into management or public relations levels. Is that an offense under ADA? I don't know.

Accents don't always have to do with immigration. In the US, yankees mock southern drawls, and midwesterners mock Bronxites, and who doesn't mock Min-a-sooooda. In SC, people from the upstate can't even understand the Gullah and the old-time SOB (that's South-of-Broad) Charlestonians. Regardless of one's politics, people in general found Bush's Texas inflection much warmer than Kerry's Bostom Brahman clip. Accents do influence, and that includes good old native-born Americans.

Audiofuzzy · 06-26-2006, 05:11 PM

Then I apologize if I suspected you of hidden agenda, Reba.
I agree with you than people do criticize and unccessarily mock each other accents. It's silly,

On the other hand it is important for the sake of clear communication that people speak just so they can be understood without any doubts. I guess it's the matter of placement - if you came from the South to NY and people don't understand you, then naturally you should speak like New Yorker not expect everyone learn southern - I think it's logical.

As for speech impediments in hearing pple I suppose there is a thin line for everything. But I also think there is always room for improvement, and the one who benefits most is the person who undergoes the therapy.

Fuzzy

Interpretrator · 06-26-2006, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Is that an offense under ADA? I don't know.

I think that could be successfully argued under "reasonable accommodations," although in this case it's sort of backwards since you're asking the employee to do something for the company, not asking the company to do something for the employee. But if the company pays for an accent reduction or speech therapy course so that an employee (deaf or hearing) can be promoted, it's hard for me to see that as an ADA offense.

(I suppose someone might *personally* take offense at this, but that seems kind of self-defeating.)

It is a thin line, though, as Audiofuzzy says, both with deaf and hearing. Because if a company said to a deaf person "You will only be promoted if you use your voice instead of sign," that could well be seen as offensive if not an out-and-out ADA issue. It's all so complicated.

Rose Immortal · 06-26-2006, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interpretrator

So ONLY illegal immigrants need accent reduction courses? No legal citizens of the United States ever take them? You are way off here.

Indeed, I've heard of people taking those kinds of courses to reduce garden-variety regional accents, like a Southern accent or a Brooklyn accent or whatever. Even in a general presentation-skills course that will often be a part of it. I had a professor who nagged me for saying "cuz" like I was from New Jersey all the time, in presentations, and got on other kids for their Southern accents (hey, at least she was an equal-opportunity nitpicker!). I think it can have a legitimate place because by learning the standard accent, you're most likely to be understood by the greatest number of people, and that's one reason I "kill" my own accent in critical situations...on the phone especially because I know I have trouble understanding accents I'd be fine with face-to-face, in a conversation.

BTW, any thoughts on what the polite way is to say to someone that you don't understand them, when they have a regional/national/other kind of accent, so they don't get offended?

Sweetmind · 06-26-2006, 11:50 PM

Quote:

may I remind the topic is about hearing person, not deaf? I was even wondering why it is here not in "On topic debates" or something like that. Unless Reba had hidden agenda..... and looks like it worked.

I am sure when it comes to hiring deaf person nobody in his/her right mind is going to ask for accent reduction course. Because there is big difference between disability and immigration.

Fuzzy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy

Then I apologize if I suspected you of hidden agenda, Reba.
I agree with you than people do criticize and unccessarily mock each other accents. It's silly,

On the other hand it is important for the sake of clear communication that people speak just so they can be understood without any doubts. I guess it's the matter of placement - if you came from the South to NY and people don't understand you, then naturally you should speak like New Yorker not expect everyone learn southern - I think it's logical.

As for speech impediments in hearing pple I suppose there is a thin line for everything. But I also think there is always room for improvement, and the one who benefits most is the person who undergoes the therapy.

Fuzzy

WHOOLA WHOOLA MOOLA MOOLA

gnulinuxman · 06-27-2006, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rose Immortal

BTW, any thoughts on what the polite way is to say to someone that you don't understand them, when they have a regional/national/other kind of accent, so they don't get offended?

In high school, they taught me it was always rude to say anything about that.

Interpretrator · 06-27-2006, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnulinuxman

In high school, they taught me it was always rude to say anything about that.

Ugh. Yeah. I really hate having to say anything like that but sometimes it's just plain unavoidable. I don't know that it's necessarily always rude...it's just the truth sometimes.

Hopefully someone whose first language isn't English will not be offended if you say "I'm sorry, I'm having trouble understanding you." I mean, I certainly don't expect to be understood all the time in the languages I use other than English. If they're a native English speaker and have a strong regional accent...I guess you just have to hope they have a good sense of humor!

At least on the phone you can blame it on a bad connection. I've done that more than once! In person, though...I guess just tell the truth nicely and hope for the best.

me_punctured · 06-27-2006, 01:41 AM

Coming from a large family of immigrants whose native language isn't English and growing up in a multi-cultural environment with non-native English speakers, I'm accustomed to hearing heavily accented English. And being deaf myself, I have come up with a few tricks up my sleeve to bridge communication gaps. If I don't understand what someone is saying on account of incomprehensible English, I'll put on a genuinely perplexed expression and ask, "What do you mean by that?" or "Can you rephrase that please?" It usually works.

Sweetmind · 06-27-2006, 02:55 AM

http://linguistlist.org/issues/5/5-443.html

Date: Mon, 18 Apr 94 20:13 PDT
From: benji wald <IBENAWJMVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
Subject: Re: 5.438 Accents

Quote:

I have been followingthe discussion on accents with more than my usual
interest. I have some observations to make and a request. I'll make the
request first, andthen go on to the observations. The request is: can anybody
out there tell me how I can subscribe to the American Speech network on
which this particular topic started?
Observations: first that stereotypes of accents are distinct from accents,
regardless of whether the stereotypers have the accents or not. This is
relevant to all portrayals of accents by actors etc, where the actors box
office drawing power is of more concern to producers than their ability to
do "authentic" accents of whatever type is needed. It is also relevant to
Cokie Roberts "joke" about unintelligible Mississippi accents, if I got the
areal reference right. Sure, Cokie has a discernible but underplayed Southern
accent of an educated type, approporiate to her profession -- but that doesnt
mean that her comment does not reflect a smugness which may accomodate to
her "sophisticated" Washington DC milieu, or have a class basis among
educated Southerners. So while it's worth observing that she is Southern,
as many postings have done, that does not mean that it is not a reflection
of the same prejudice which is acknowledged when coming froma "Northern"
mouth/pen -- and then I have allowed that it may also be a more local
class-accent prejudice among Southerners, but I think she was playing to
the general American audience to whom she addressed her remark as a witticism.
Northern prejudice of the Southern accent, and stereotyping it with undesirabl
e but particularly "country" and "ignorant" characteristics has a long history,
but I think it reached its height of unpopularity as "dangerous" "racist"
and "evil" in the films of the 1960s, starting with "Easy Rider". There is
also a sexual split, so that I have heard many Northerners say they hate the
Southern accent in a MAN, but find it charming in a WOMAN -- and come to
think of it, I can't think of any MALE Southern actors with the success of
female Southerners like Holly Hunter (but there are not many like her either
in Hollywood, does Cissy Spacek, how do you spell it? count?)
Stemberger had asked about whether North American accents had been
radically altered by immigrants -- implying some substratal phenomena.
Actually, when I first read his question, I thought of Northern US accents,
in the context of Southern US accents -- although I realised that is not
what he meant. But I already had some thoughts about that, so I thought I
would mention them. To begin with, a concept which became popular among the
creolists in arguing with the dialectologists about the origin of Black Englis
h is very disagreeable to many white Southerners and contradicts their own
myths about their varieties of English. This was that SouthernUS English in
general was (largely?) shaped by the African population and their descendents,
this was in the context of arguments about the African and/or creole origin
of various BE features like double modals, invariant be, etc etc, to which
the dialectologists, like McDavid, a Southerner, said whites had them too, as
if precluding a creole/African origin -- to which then the creolists came
back with the argument I just mentioned. For example, Dillard cites a
British traveler in the late 18th c who had the impression that Southerners
who did not go to Northern or British schools to learn how to speak "properly
", which included many of the "ladies" even in adulthood, spoke like their
Black servants. Features were not given, but that's not the point. From
the age of this particular document I imagined, but have not done all the
research, that the argument is actually an old one, and one which Northerners
were in more overtly racist times able to taunt white Southerners about their
accents. With that in mind, I read into the following passages of one of
the usual popularising stereotyped accents books, in this case, Dian Eaton's
"Is it true what they say about Dixie?" (Secaucus,NJ: Citadel Press, 1988)
a loving treatment, and informative, but no less stereotyping for that:

Quote 1: The Southern population has grown by natural increase rather than
by the waves of immigration that swept the more industrial North. Therefore,
the same principal population divisions as the original settlers have pretty
well been maintained: the Anglo-Saxons, the Scotch-Irish, the Germans, French
, Spanish, Mexicans, and the Africans. (p.3)
Quote 2: The Southern dialect is not really Southern at all, but the
Queen's English of the time of Queen Elizabeth I, Shakespeare, Marlowe...
if Shakespeare were to travel into the remote regions of North Carolina
today, into the coves and hollows of the Blue Ridge and Great Smoky
Mountains, he would find highlanders conversing in his own pure mother
tongue (although heavily accented), and he would have no difficulty in
fitting in (p.8)

Quote 2 is of course a familiar version of the myth of Appalachian speech
(rather than Lowland Southern varieties). Although the two quotes are
pages apart I read them together as a subtext in response to the Northern
"taunt" that they speak like "Africans". The retort is: not at all, we
speak "real" English, the way it was spoken in England when WE left. On
the other hand, you Northerners speak a jargon corrupted by your many waves
of immigrants who have overwhelmed your original "Anglo-Saxons" -- listen
to the way you talk -- isn;'t that enough proof?

So much for that, because all this stuff is pretty naive and simplistic as
linguistics, but it's very interesting and important as a reflection of
American society and the continuing rift for whatever current reasons between
the North and the South. My next thought has to do with the apparent fact
that Southerners are much more disturbed and resentful of the misportrayal
of their accents in the media than are, say, New Yorkers, who seem almost
obtuse to itsimplications,True enough, New York stereotypes are widely
romanticised as glamorous or at least cunning gangsters, preferrable to the
violent, racist, nasty stereotypes of Southerners. But still...? Well,
it seems to me that New Yorkers are able to laugh off the stereotypes, or
even accept them, as applying to some "other" New Yorkers. Southerners
seem more communal in taking offense, because of the longstanding historical
hostility. Some examples of New Yorkers accepting the stereotypes, Mae
West in "She Donna Him Wrong" (193something) She's an authentic "oi" speaker,
like a lot of New York performers of the time, e.g., Groucho Marx. Of course,
"oi" is not pronounced "oi" except in the stereotype. In one scene, someone
else use the stereotype,"I'm noivous" (it's a showgirl before the show where
Mae West sings at her nightclub) -- the stereotype is used by someone who
is not really a New Yorker. Mae West repeats her pronunciation of "noivous"
mocking it "don't be noivous", as if unaware that the stereotype stems from
a New York pronunciation like her own, never commented on by anyone in any of
her films. That is, the stereotype became the written "oi", not the actually
pronunciation. Later 1930s "Dead End" or whatever with Humphrey Bogart
Sylvia Sydney and those Dead End Kids, Muggsy n them. Bogart is a real New
Yorker, but of a relatively elevated class, prep school and all that. In
the film he is a gangster returning to the hood. He has a phoney "oi"
stereotype which comes up often, and contrasts like night and day with the
authentic pronunciation of some of the street kids (that is the actors who
portray them and do not have to phoney up this particular aspect of their
character accents). In the late 1960s I found that New Yorkers I asked
were deaf to the phoniness of Dustin Hoffman's accent in "Midnight Cowboy"
portraying the New York City slimeball Rizzo. Actually he was quite good,
but his dream was to go to "FLOOR-ida" that is "Florida" with the vowel of
"floor" rather than "far", a feature of his native LA accent, common in
the US outside of the East Coast, but alien to New York City or much of the
East Coast. More recently I saw some movie where Jessica Lange plays a
New Yorker opposite Robert DiNiro (a 199something movie) I forgot the title.
Her accent is amusing and much less competent than Hoffman's. Particularly
striking was that in the film DiNiro was "Harry", but she was incapable of
calling him anything but "Hairy". Again, that's typical of American accents
apart from the East Coast, but short a and "ay" are distinguished before r
in open syllables in New York, just as short "o" as in Florida, forest, orang
e, etc etc is distinguished from long "o" in the same environment. These
aspects of pronunciation are almost impossible for people whose authentic
accents have suffered the mergers to get right. So pop the films into your
VCRs and check out what I have said.
Getting back to the main point, New Yorkers are not upset by these mis-
portrayals of their accent the way Southerners are, and I have already
suggested that this has to do with the stereotyped character of the people
associated with the (stereotyped) accents, and how the stream of history
compels people who are the target of different stereotypes to take the
stereotypes more or less personally, fearing -- with good reason, I think --
that the stereotypes are poisoning people's minds in a way that will be to
their personal disadvantage. In closing, I want to encourage more talk about
stereotypes, their relation to linguistic reality, and whether it is
excusable for targets of stereotypes to play to the stereotypes, as seems
to have been suggested, I think naively, in the case of Cokie Roberts.
But I also think the irate Southerners should also discuss THEIR stereotypes
of each other and other people, and discuss that too. Stereotypes will
always be with us for comic effect, I think, although I'm not quite sure
why it is universal to laugh at other people's speech. Benji
Mail to author|Respond to list|Read more issues|LINGUIST home page|Top of issue

Audiofuzzy · 06-27-2006, 04:19 AM

I forgot about this;

Quote:

So ONLY illegal immigrants need accent reduction courses? No legal citizens of the United States ever take them? You are way off here.

Oh nono. Now you are making assumptions.
First of all why illegal, where did I gave you an impression I was speaking of illegal aliens?

I meant all immigrants, people who at one point did not speak any English, or barely, or - exactly- were speaking with heavy accent.

They certainly might need an accent reduction course.
Some go for it by their own initiative.

Now, when it comes to disability the line is not only thin but like you said - complicated.
Usually it is possible to improve one's accent considerably when the matter is merely different ethinicity,
but when it comes to disability the improvement might or might not be possible. And since it might be unfair to demand impossible, this is why there is an ADA act.

Fuzzy

ps and also of course any US born, English speaking citizen who wishes to improve his accent for any reason can do that.

Interpretrator · 06-27-2006, 12:51 PM

Okay, fair enough. When you said "between disability and immigration" I thought you were talking about two controversial issues, and currently the controversy about immigration is about illegal immigration.

My point, if I had made it when I wasn't annoyed, would have been that "accent reduction" and "immigration" are two very separate issues that might occasionally interact, but not necessarily.

sr171soars · 06-27-2006, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by me_punctured

Coming from a large family of immigrants whose native language isn't English and growing up in a multi-cultural environment with non-native English speakers, I'm accustomed to hearing heavily accented English. And being deaf myself, I have come up with a few tricks up my sleeve to bridge communication gaps. If I don't understand what someone is saying on account of incomprehensible English, I'll put on a genuinely perplexed expression and ask, "What do you mean by that?" or "Can you rephrase that please?" It usually works.

In a perfect world, that is how it should work. Unfortunately, we live in a time where the rats can't run fast enough. Impatience is probably the bigger culprit in dealings like this. Nobody got the time to do a language shingding because a person can't enunciate their English very well.

Today
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06-25-2006, 09:09 PM	#35 (permalink)
Y Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 3,113	Did you know that Sign Language do have their own accent, too ? We rarely correct or change their accent in sign language to respect theirs. In the same meantime, this topic reminds me of Reese Witherspoon who had to change her Southern accent for the movie "Sweet Home Alabama" Did she become famous and successful by change her accent and/or keep her accent the same as before ?

06-26-2006, 02:29 AM	#38 (permalink)
Audiofuzzy Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,968	may I remind the topic is about hearing person, not deaf? I was even wondering why it is here not in "On topic debates" or something like that. Unless Reba had hidden agenda..... and looks like it worked. I am sure when it comes to hiring deaf person nobody in his/her right mind is going to ask for accent reduction course. Because there is big difference between disability and immigration. Fuzzy

06-26-2006, 02:43 AM	#39 (permalink)
me_punctured Urdhva Dhanurasana Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 363	The accent reduction course sounds like an excellent investment for everyone's benefit, as long as the employers pay for the course in the best interests of the employee and the company. In the past, employees with foreign accents that rendered their speech overtly unintelligible got laid off, fired, or passed over by younger, less qualifed employees. So I can appreciate how employers can find a creative solution for this sort of a problem. But if they offered an accent reduction course for deaf people, that's an entirely different matter!

06-26-2006, 03:17 AM	#40 (permalink)
Audiofuzzy Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,968	May I point out accent reduction course is in the best interest of the person who needs this course? Even if the employer does not provide financial coverage for such services. This is not the employer's responsibility to provide clear accent of his employee. It's a free country, and many people are searching for jobs they want. The potential employers have plenty of applicants to choose from. It's survival of the fittest, and in certain jobs it means best education, best job skills, and if clear speech too - then whoever needs it, better take care of it. You can't always count on having a nice and generous boss, but you can count on that out there is someone else with your skills and better speech wanting your position. Fuzzy

06-26-2006, 05:11 PM	#44 (permalink)
Audiofuzzy Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,968	Then I apologize if I suspected you of hidden agenda, Reba. I agree with you than people do criticize and unccessarily mock each other accents. It's silly, On the other hand it is important for the sake of clear communication that people speak just so they can be understood without any doubts. I guess it's the matter of placement - if you came from the South to NY and people don't understand you, then naturally you should speak like New Yorker not expect everyone learn southern - I think it's logical. As for speech impediments in hearing pple I suppose there is a thin line for everything. But I also think there is always room for improvement, and the one who benefits most is the person who undergoes the therapy. Fuzzy

06-27-2006, 01:41 AM	#50 (permalink)
me_punctured Urdhva Dhanurasana Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 363	Coming from a large family of immigrants whose native language isn't English and growing up in a multi-cultural environment with non-native English speakers, I'm accustomed to hearing heavily accented English. And being deaf myself, I have come up with a few tricks up my sleeve to bridge communication gaps. If I don't understand what someone is saying on account of incomprehensible English, I'll put on a genuinely perplexed expression and ask, "What do you mean by that?" or "Can you rephrase that please?" It usually works.

06-27-2006, 12:51 PM	#53 (permalink)
Interpretrator Crime fighter Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,425	Okay, fair enough. When you said "between disability and immigration" I thought you were talking about two controversial issues, and currently the controversy about immigration is about illegal immigration. My point, if I had made it when I wasn't annoyed, would have been that "accent reduction" and "immigration" are two very separate issues that might occasionally interact, but not necessarily.