Double Standards? Oralism And Asl? - Page 2

ismi · 05-10-2006, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

True, but Eve, it's obvious that you've NEVER experianced speech therapy as a dhh kid. The mechanics of speech therapy are just TOO fucking hard for us to master. You have never been yelled at in the library (or in general) b/c you were talking too loudly. You have never dealt with dumbasses who hear your voice and automaticly think "Oh she's retarded".......

I did speech therapy as a kid. Granted, I'm HOH, not deaf, but I did a lot of repetition, a lot of gameplaying, a lot of roleplaying, without which I probably would not speak clearly today. Does that mean it will work for everybody? No - but I have met lots of dhh with varying levels of hearing loss for whom speech therapy did work.

And while I've never been yelled at for talking too loudly (outside of times when my hearing aids were broken), I have gotten in trouble for things like whistling without realizing it, or tapping on a desk - similar things.

Is it hard work? Sure. Does it work for everyone? No. But there are those of us who do benefit greatly from speech therapy.

Sweetmind · 05-10-2006, 04:38 PM

Of course it s hard work that I had done, however after all those years that I have to put up with their nasty negative attitudes that IS NOT FUN in todays. Thats why I dont support Speech issues in every classroom. PERIOD!!

I have seen some deafies in todays are still complained about their audism people treats them bad that is not necessary. So thats the truth.

Eve · 05-10-2006, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

True, but Eve, it's obvious that you've NEVER experianced speech therapy as a dhh kid. The mechanics of speech therapy are just TOO fucking hard for us to master. You have never been yelled at in the library (or in general) b/c you were talking too loudly. You have never dealt with dumbasses who hear your voice and automaticly think "Oh she's retarded".......

How do you know what I have and have not experienced? True, I wasn’t dhh as a child (latent), but I have experienced plenty of humiliation associated with my hearing loss. Additionally, my husband was deaf as a child and has shared his experiences with me. And, as ismi stated, it may not be for everyone, but it sure does work for some. Blanket statements never fit everyone all of the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetmind

all those years that I have to put up with their nasty negative attitudes that IS NOT FUN in todays

Now just imagine how we feel having to put up with YOUR nasty negative attitude!

gnulinuxman · 05-10-2006, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deaf Images

Guess what? I guess oralists have to spend more $ on aspirins from having so many headaches while reading lips.... ASL users spend less on it...
would that be a wonder?

Many Deaf are successful in either worlds so please don't patronize us!

Thanks!

Interesting point about aspirin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deaf Images

I was oralist so that makes me an EX-ORALIST...

never again I will read lips nor speak i just use ASL It is more serene that way!

You can also use good ol' pencil and paper too, right?

gnulinuxman · 05-10-2006, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetmind

all those years that I have to put up with their nasty negative attitudes that IS NOT FUN in todays

Now just imagine how we feel having to put up with YOUR nasty negative attitude!

What about YOURS, Eve?

Kalista · 05-10-2006, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

I
AMEN Sweetmind! Unfortunatly, speech class was just TOO filled with endlessly going "boo-be-bah" I mean once I caught up with language, (and language therapy IS fun) the mechanics of speech are just TOO fucking impossible for any dhh kid to master!

^^ ^^ High 5 ^^ ^^

Eve · 05-10-2006, 06:21 PM

Take it or leave it, doesn't matter to me. You would argue with a brick wall (despite the fact that you have no personal experience for which to base your comments on) anyway.

Kalista · 05-10-2006, 06:23 PM

Exactly.. it has been stressful reading lips...and also frustrating when I chose ASL and teachers get MAD and slapped a wooden ruler on my hands to make their stupid point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetmind

YEP yep YEPPIE!!! I was the one of them who slapped a wooden ruler on my hands to make their stupid point, too.

Also, I dont agree AUDISM teachers have the right to grade on us for our speech classes.. How would you feel that it hurts Deaf person get an D or F? He just cannot help it and couldnt speak with a very harsh or very high pitch deaf voice that can scare people away? I felt so bad for this guy because he knew it s not doing any good for him to speak. He is smarter than that. Audism teacher is so rude and disrespect toward deafies that is not necessary . I wish I did stand up for him and tell the teacher off but I didnt at that time. JEEZ! That s a very nasty bigotry attitude. SCOFFS!!

I can understand why some deafies refuse to speak and I dont blame them.

Everything is so negative toward Deaf people about a very stupid grade on their orally speaking.. No need to force Deaf children who wishes not to bother to learn and let them be. No need to have their tornment toward Deaf children. How dare for audism people treat Deafies like that?

Also I got threatened to get an F in English class by a college audism teacher because she wanted me to wear the head phone.. I told her NO I dont have to because I had my hearing aid device at that time. I said go right ahead and give me an F as far as I walked out of class and dont have to go back to that damn audism teacher. JEEZ!! tell me what to do while I was a college student.. SCOFFS!

I feel that speech class should have fun thing to teach us and learn how to speak in a very positive reinforcement.. No pushing or repeat it over and over that makes them fed with orally speaking.. JEEZ! It doesnt do any good for them to enjoy in that speech class.. USE YOUR JUDGEMENT and make it fun and allow them feel free to learn how to speak in their own wishes.

Thank you!

Sweetmind

They slapped the ruler wooden on my hands when I signed. When I spoke like a monkey voice. They put a soap bar in my mouth because I do not speak very well. I only speak perfect F U C K Y O U no other words that I can speak.

deafmedicalpoet · 05-10-2006, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnulinuxman

What about YOURS, Eve?

Yeah, what about yours, Eve. ?? Isn't your attitude nasty?

gnulinuxman · 05-10-2006, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eve

Take it or leave it, doesn't matter to me. You would argue with a brick wall (despite the fact that you have no personal experience for which to base your comments on) anyway.

http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallac...20ad%20hominem

deafmedicalpoet · 05-10-2006, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eve

Take it or leave it, doesn't matter to me. You would argue with a brick wall (despite the fact that you have no personal experience for which to base your comments on) anyway.

Have you been agruing with a brick wall lately? and Where is your personal experience, Eve??

Deaflinuxgeek

deafdyke · 05-10-2006, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Is it hard work? Sure. Does it work for everyone? No. But there are those of us who do benefit greatly from speech therapy.

Sigh.....I'm not anti-speech therapy. I think that speech therapy is a good tool to have, and I'm glad I have that tool. That said, the tool isn't perfect....Some therapists and experts insistutite that oral skills give a dhh kid perfect equality/ equal footing in the hearing world. I'm just saying that maybe it doesn't!
Oh, and I'm hoh (moderate to severe loss)

Deaf Images · 05-10-2006, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnulinuxman

Interesting point about aspirin.

You can also use good ol' pencil and paper too, right?

sure I prefer pen and paper =^)

ismi · 05-10-2006, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

Sigh.....I'm not anti-speech therapy. I think that speech therapy is a good tool to have, and I'm glad I have that tool. That said, the tool isn't perfect....Some therapists and experts insistutite that oral skills give a dhh kid perfect equality/ equal footing in the hearing world. I'm just saying that maybe it doesn't!
Oh, and I'm hoh (moderate to severe loss)

Quote:

True, but Eve, it's obvious that you've NEVER experianced speech therapy as a dhh kid. The mechanics of speech therapy are just TOO fucking hard for us to master.

"just TOO fucking hard for us to master" sounds pretty anti-speech-therapy to me.

Eve · 05-10-2006, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deaflinuxgeek

Have you been agruing with a brick wall lately?

Two actually (you and your fiancé)

Quote:

Originally Posted by deaflinuxgeek

and Where is your personal experience, Eve??

My personal experience is in that I am hearing impaired. My personal experience is in going through the entire qualifying process with my husband who was only recently approved for a CI.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafdyke

Sigh.....I'm not anti-speech therapy. I think that speech therapy is a good tool to have, and I'm glad I have that tool. That said, the tool isn't perfect....Some therapists and experts insistutite that oral skills give a dhh kid perfect equality/ equal footing in the hearing world. I'm just saying that maybe it doesn't!
Oh, and I'm hoh (moderate to severe loss)

My husband is profoundly deaf and went through speech therapy his entire childhood. He has impeccable speech and lip reading skills now and is glad his mother saw fit to have him orally trained. I am not saying it is for everyone, but he is obviously a success story.

Sweetmind · 05-10-2006, 10:24 PM

Quote:

My personal experience is in that I am hearing impaired. My personal experience is in going through the entire qualifying process with my husband who was only recently approved for a CI.

How s that so since you are latened deaf? Being late-deafened isn't a bad thing necessarily--but some of them think they know everything about being deaf.

Eve · 05-10-2006, 10:42 PM

I know enough....and I know more about MY situation than you do. I also am intelligent enough to know that this isnt a one-size-fits-all world.

gnulinuxman · 05-10-2006, 10:49 PM

Why is the common belief that the only way to talk to hearing people is by jaw-flapping? What's wrong with writing it down? Or hearing people who are signers?

Eve · 05-10-2006, 10:51 PM

Writing it down is not always appropriate (time consuming, low lighting, etc) and hearing signers are not always available. Why be so limited in your options?

deafdyke · 05-10-2006, 10:57 PM

Quote:

just TOO fucking hard for us to master" sounds pretty anti-speech-therapy to me.

I said the MECHANICS of speech therapy. By, THAT I mean things like modualtion, pitch, volumne, articualtion, enuncition, learning how to pronounce sounds we can't hear (like I STILL have to remember to pronounce sounds like th) Many of us can have pretty decent skills in those areas, but we'll NEVER be as good as a hearing person! So much of speech therapy (post language aqqustion) is so My Fair Lady "The Rain In Spain Falls Mainly On the Plain-"ish

Quote:

He has impeccable speech and lip reading skills now and is glad his mother saw fit to have him orally trained. I am not saying it is for everyone, but he is obviously a success story.

I consider myself to be a sucess story as well.....that said I'm just wondering why my aquastion of speech skills had to be so damn AUDIST. Why can't speech and Sign be learned in tandem?

sr171soars · 05-10-2006, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnulinuxman

Why is the common belief that the only way to talk to hearing people is by jaw-flapping? What's wrong with writing it down? Or hearing people who are signers?

Because the majority of hearing consistently communicate by talking and any other mode of communication is cumbersome like writing (very slow compared to speech...heck how long does it take us writing emails back and forth compared to speech?!?). ASL is not commonly known to hearing people and are very unlikely to learn it unless they have to. When the majority of the world is 98% or more hearing, there isn't any great urgency or motivation for them to learn ASL. I hate to say this but they don't have to bother and most have probably never met a deaf person.

Eve · 05-10-2006, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Why can't speech and Sign be learned in tandem?

While I am an advocate of TC, most oralists believe that if a child picks up ASL, they will use it as a crutch and ditch speech as it is much more difficult and time consuming.

sr171soars · 05-10-2006, 11:04 PM

I can believe that. Speech therapy was not easy task for me. I had to take it until I was in Jr high. It wasn't until I was in late high school that I had my speech to the point that it fooled people in thinking I was hearing.

gnulinuxman · 05-10-2006, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sr171soars

Because the majority of hearing consistently communicate by talking and any other mode of communication is cumbersome like writing (very slow compared to speech...heck how long does it take us writing emails back and forth compared to speech?!?). ASL is not commonly known to hearing people and are very unlikely to learn it unless they have to. When the majority of the world is 98% or more hearing, there isn't any great urgency or motivation for them to learn ASL. I hate to say this but they don't have to bother and most have probably never met a deaf person.

1. I have some friends who do prefer reading and writing to speaking and lipreading.
2. I learned ASL not because I "had" to (my fiancee was perfectly willing to let me get away with not learning it) but beccause I WANTED to, and most of my all-hearing family wants to learn too.

deafdyke · 05-10-2006, 11:13 PM

Quote:

most oralists believe that if a child picks up ASL, they will use it as a crutch and ditch speech as it is much more difficult and time consuming.

Yes, but that is a MYTH!!!!!!!!!! Like TCers would see Sign as being used to clarify a word, whereas oralists would see it as a crutch. No matter that perhaps the TCer could articualte themselves(in Sign) at a Harvard level....the kid with oral skills is ALWAYS on top! No matter that there's no significent difference in verbal IQ (oral deaf kids STILL have pretty low verbal IQs compared to the hearing population!)

sr171soars · 05-10-2006, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnulinuxman

1. I have some friends who do prefer reading and writing to speaking and lipreading.
2. I learned ASL not because I "had" to (my fiancee was perfectly willing to let me get away with not learning it) but beccause I WANTED to, and most of my all-hearing family wants to learn too.

I hear you but listen...

Most people don't prefer reading and writing to speaking. For a hearing person speaking is the fastest way to communicate pure and simple. It doesn't even have to be complete sentences either. The voice contains inflections that can be used as well.

Most people don't want or need to learn ASL.

You can't base your arguments on what some do but what the majority does. Whether that is fair or not, it is totally irrelevant.

05-10-2006, 10:49 PM	#48 (permalink)
gnulinuxman Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 1,740	Why is the common belief that the only way to talk to hearing people is by jaw-flapping? What's wrong with writing it down? Or hearing people who are signers? __________________ --Danny

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05-10-2006, 04:38 PM	#32 (permalink)
Sweetmind Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 788	Of course it s hard work that I had done, however after all those years that I have to put up with their nasty negative attitudes that IS NOT FUN in todays. Thats why I dont support Speech issues in every classroom. PERIOD!! I have seen some deafies in todays are still complained about their audism people treats them bad that is not necessary. So thats the truth.

05-10-2006, 06:21 PM	#37 (permalink)
Eve Goddess Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Paradise Posts: 1,125	Take it or leave it, doesn't matter to me. You would argue with a brick wall (despite the fact that you have no personal experience for which to base your comments on) anyway.

05-10-2006, 10:42 PM	#47 (permalink)
Eve Goddess Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Paradise Posts: 1,125	I know enough....and I know more about MY situation than you do. I also am intelligent enough to know that this isnt a one-size-fits-all world.

05-10-2006, 10:51 PM	#49 (permalink)
Eve Goddess Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Paradise Posts: 1,125	Writing it down is not always appropriate (time consuming, low lighting, etc) and hearing signers are not always available. Why be so limited in your options?

05-10-2006, 11:04 PM	#53 (permalink)
sr171soars Cyborg since March '05 Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 2,376	I can believe that. Speech therapy was not easy task for me. I had to take it until I was in Jr high. It wasn't until I was in late high school that I had my speech to the point that it fooled people in thinking I was hearing.