deafdyke

Oh in this case, it IS very appropreate!!!! It comes from auditory verbal therapy philopshophy, which is making the kids as "normal and healthy" as possible!
loml, I've been told I have pretty good speech....Not to mention the fact that I utilize language like Willam Safire. It's just certain prejudicated dumbasses who think that I'm MR.....and the thing is, that I've noticed that many of those people are almost MR themselves!

Deafness

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kayla123

In the auditory verbal approach it is used so the child will learn to listen to what is being said. It also helps to build the childs auditory memory.

deafdyke

On the other hand, is the auditory verbal approach really backed up by solid research? I mean even HEARIES speechread......LOL, especially if they are around a dhh person. So many of my hearing friends picked up speechreading from me......we could have "spoken" conversations without making a sound!

Rose Immortal

There IS proof that hearing people understand better when looking at someone...I can vouch for it, especially when I'm in a crowd.

I don't understand why some people think speech is totally evil--or why anyone would think signing is evil. Bad teaching doesn't make the whole concept invalid. And I say if anybody's going to nitpick a person's speech or signing just to be hurtful, or because they're ignorant...SCREW 'EM. At least for me, I don't care about perfection and I'm willing to put in the time to understand where it's not readily apparent (and I catch on fast). I mean, if I were rude to everyone who mispronounced, I'd have to hate myself.

Being hearing doesn't mean you don't mangle a word every so often, some of us more so than others. Love him or hate him, our president is a perfect example. (PLEASE don't turn this thread political or insulting!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

kayla123

Well from my experience, I've met other dhh kids using this approach who were implanted early and to be honest i was quite amazed at the results. These kids have been in therapy for about 5 years or so and i was quite impressed. Dhh kids are going to lipread no matter what, the AV approach just helps them to listen first when they are not able to lipread like for example: telephone, or if someone is not faceing them.

kayla123

Btw, i 'm not and never would be against sign. Even though my daughter is in AV theraphy we are still going to learn sign.

deafdyke

Yeah, but how much of it is due to the methodology vs. parental affluence/ hyperinvolvement? It's hard to say.
Oh, and kayla123, that does rock that you're open to Sign. I really like your mindset! However, it does seem like there are a lot of AV parents who are rather closed minded about Sign. Some are openminded about Sign, and I think that rocks, but there are too many parents out there who are anti Sign.

sr171soars

I hear you and in a perfect world...make it so.

Unfortunately, we are not talking about a couple of mispronounced words but often a rather "way" of speech that brings up questions (whether right or wrong) in the mind of the listener. The almost automatically takes the listener totally offtrack from focusing on communication and into issues of judgement. I agree this shouldn't be so but it is the reality and the way most people operate. Most people don't have the patience or time to stop and think what is going on here to adjust to the situation. I have done it myself in other circumstances. Everybody has got to decide in "split second" time whether to spend the time or not and deal with something different. I think a great part of it is the "rat race" mentality of the day we live.

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Rose Immortal

I think I just find it hard to get my head around that, in most circumstances; that's not the way I was brought up. I would be lying if I said I never make judgments based on how a person (of any kind) talks, but I wouldn't call it a terribly frequent response.

jillio

Cued speech only alerts that a sound is present. It still does not make the position of the anatomy used for articulation visable. Without that, the deaf child still has no indication of how to correctly reproduce the sound.

jillio

Asking a profoundly deaf child to "listen" is an absurd thing to do! Auditory memory is enhance through language. Sign language activates the auditory loop in the brain the same way verbal language does in the hearing.

jillio

Don't misunderstand. I am not anti spoken language. My son has some verbal skills, and he will use them when the situation demands. However, his verbal skills were aquired after years and years of effort. He aquired sign language in a very natural manner--simply by being exposed to it. He learned it, but the process was of natural acquisition, the same way a hearing child learns spoken language through exposure. Refusal to allow a deaf child to acquire language in a way that is natural for them because of a ridiculas belief that permitting them their natural language will interfere with their acquisition of a forced language does great harm to that deaf child. All the research supports the fact that language delays have negative life long consequences on cognitive functioning. I fail to see how it can become so important to develop speech that we sacrifice the cognitive functioning of a child. Especially when research also supports the fact that early exposure to sign allows the child to develop language at the optimal point in development, thus preventing language delay and all of the subsequent problems.

deafdyke

Good point jillo!!!!! It's about going boo-be-bah vs. being able to Sign at a Harvard level. I mean, kids who are orally educated, tend to have low verbal IQs, just the same as Signers. Verbal IQ measures mastery of language.
I'm not anti- auditory verbal therapy. I think AVT can be a great tool. That said, a lot of people go overboard with the AV mentality of constant therapy.

kayla123

Well your going to have your own opinion and thats fine. I never said anything negative about sign, all i'm saying is that AV is working for my daughter and listening and speaking has become easier for her to do. Why is that such a crime!! I had her implanted to give her options in life. I don't have to make her wear it, when she gets up in morning, the first thing she does is get her implant because she loves watching and singing along with her favorite cartoons. Is that such a bad thing? I dont understand why you can't be happy for the child who is actually enjoying the experience to hear instead of being so negative about things.

deafdyke

And that's good! She's not attacking your choice at all! What's she's saying, is that the gross majority of dhh kids won't be able to develop sophiscated language with spoken language alone. Even many hoh kids have a lot of problems making themselves understood orally. I mean I have very decent language skills, but a lot of people have trouble understanding me or treat me like I'm MR b/c of the way I sound.

signer16

Spoken languages and signed languages each have their benefits. I think the problem that DD has, as well as others, with spoken language is NOT that a deaf child can speak, that is an AMAZING tool for a deaf person to have. The problem is not in a ACQUIRING the ability to speak, but rather an overall lack of language COMPREHENSION that comes with it.
When parents focus only on a child's ability to speak, they don't realize how much they sacrifice in comprehension.
I have deaf friends who don't speak, deaf friends who do, and hoh friends that grew up oral and are now learned/have learned sign. The ones that seem to have the most trouble in life are my hoh friends who speak well! Yes, they can communicate with the hearing world, and yes, that is nice, BUT their common knowledge is WAY below average.
When a deaf/hoh child has to focus SO much on learning to speak, and on being able to physically understand the words that are being said, understanding their meaning becomes secondary. Oral Deaf/hoh people learn to fake it very well, but if you get into a real conversation with them, signed or spoken, you will see how much they have missed.

sr171soars

Yep!!! A very valid point! It took me until I was in my late teens/early twenties to grasp that essential truth. By then, I was able to put it together and have both great speech and a very good understanding of things that are common knowledge in terms of events that everybody heard and the colloquial expressions of the day. It not just book knowledge (which does help) but the ordinary concerns of the day and what people were talking about. If you can "hear" the everyday cultural stuff, then being a part of the hearing world is very, very easy.

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Tousi

Couldn't have said that better myself, soars!

MsGiglz

I have few problems with hearing people disbelif that i am deaf (without HAs).. with HAs.. I can hear better.. but..

they dont believe that i speak so well.. keep asking me are you sure you are deaf? cuz they met more than few or alot deafies, and they said their speeches are not good even Marlee matlin too! lol...

so I spend all my childhood and teenager in speech therapy 3 times a week.. like i said in my other threads about my mom not accepted my deafness.. so thats why..

but I am glad that i can read lips really good, i should have a job .. lip reader for police dept or fbi lol..

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Boult

Nice dream eh?

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Sweetmind

Wow you are in the same shoes as I am.. Thank goodness someone like me.

Ha ha My daughters told me the same thing about Matlee Matlin s speech is not so great because I speak better than her. I was kinda shocked to hear this. It s not the point who is better than me or them but it s true.

Thanks!
Sweetmind

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Sweetmind

YES YES YES thats correct.. Thanks for your honest statement.

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sillycat

I have met a few profoundly deafies who speak well enough to understand clearly but the majority have "deaf accent" becuz they cant hear the sounds well enough to pronounce the words correctly. I believe that you need to have enough hearing ability to learn speech.

CATLOVERS2000

I Don't See Why Not. I Speak And Sing Very Well Even Though I Have A 95% Hearing Loss.

Castleman

born deaf and talked all the way until 19 and then started learning the sign language,

jag

I would think that many who are severely deaf could speak normally. But when you get to profoundly deaf you will probably hear more of a deaf voice. It would have alot to do with how much of their own voice a person hears probably.

Tousi

I think it also depends on the time of the onset of deafness; say, a 28 year old waking up one morning deaf vs someone going deaf at age 5........

gnulinuxman

Neither. With enough practice and determination, there is no reason why a deaf person couldn't.

neecy

one of my best friends from RIT/NTID was born deaf, her mom is a speech therapist and she has near perfect speech as a result.

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loml

CE/CS makes the sounds of words visible and much more. It is not an alerting system.

Why would you think that CE/CS would/should accomplish the anatomy used for articulation? Best do some more research.

CE/CS can used in cunjunction with AV, just as it can be used in conjunction with ASL, CE/CS can be voiced or voiceless. CE/CS embraces diversification.

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