Can someone who is severely deaf talk normally? - Page 10

Passivist · 08-06-2008, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Exactly. One cannot use a pure model of ASL when using spoken English and vice versa.

I don't see this, I see lots of hearing people when they sign still manage to speak as well, it may well be slower, but that isn't the issue, only effectiveness is important. It is drawing a line between deaf communication, i.e. you sign, or you speak, or you lip-read, but you don't mix ? In reality deaf use any and all means to take in information, NO-ONE relies solely on sign language, despite claims, there is MUCH more going on. The more that can be seen the more access comes out surely ? The problem still seems to be, sign tuition is not communication tuition in the broader sense. It only effectively works deaf to deaf ? and if you mimic deaf by not talking ? Hearing pretending to be deaf ?

Etoile · 08-06-2008, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passivist

I don't see this, I see lots of hearing people when they sign still manage to speak as well, it may well be slower, but that isn't the issue, only effectiveness is important. It is drawing a line between deaf communication, i.e. you sign, or you speak, or you lip-read, but you don't mix ? In reality deaf use any and all means to take in information, NO-ONE relies solely on sign language, despite claims, there is MUCH more going on. The more that can be seen the more access comes out surely ? The problem still seems to be, sign tuition is not communication tuition in the broader sense. It only effectively works deaf to deaf ? and if you mimic deaf by not talking ? Hearing pretending to be deaf ?

As we have already established, it is physically impossible to sign ASL and speak English at the same time. You will either end up signing in English word order and maybe dropping out some signs, or you will end up speaking in ASL word order and maybe leaving out some information.

When you say "no one relies solely on sign language" you seem to be under the impression that sign language is only made with the hands. When you say "much more is going on" you're making more sense about ASL. The mouth, body, eyes, face, hands, and arms are all involved in ASL. Yes, of course people who use sign language rely on more information than just the hands. However, that does not mean that speaking, or word-for-word mouthing (with no sound produced), is necessary to understand sign language. Also, using speech does not mean someone is hearing, not using speech does not mean someone is deaf. Plenty of deaf people speak when they sign, they are not "pretending to be hearing," and plenty of hearing people don't speak when they sign, they are not "pretending to be deaf."

If YOU have been unable to learn sign language without using speaking along with it, that is only YOUR issue with how sign language is taught.

~*Kaelei*~ · 08-06-2008, 05:45 PM

I'm profoundly Deaf and I've been told by many people that I talk normal like hearing person, that they can't detect the accent of Deafness.

*shrugs* I believe that people who went to Oral school and is profoundly deaf can speak normal...I have friends who can speak normal but some have little deaf accent and some don't. It just depends on the person and the training they went through.

Jeff_Andum · 08-06-2008, 06:50 PM

Of course they tell all of you that you talk normal, they don't want to hurt your feelings! Hearing people will lie sometimes just to spare your feelings. There are many Deaf people that can speak well enough that the hearing people can understand them....but Deaf people CANNOT talk normal like a hearing person......I dont care how much your hearing friends bullshit you. Also, there are many Deaf that try to voice for themselves insisting they can talk normal....YOU CANT...that is what the interpreter is there for. Continue to practice your speech skills......but dont get on here saying you can talk normal.....you are lying to yourself and everyone else.

shel90 · 08-06-2008, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etoile

As we have already established, it is physically impossible to sign ASL and speak English at the same time. You will either end up signing in English word order and maybe dropping out some signs, or you will end up speaking in ASL word order and maybe leaving out some information.

When you say "no one relies solely on sign language" you seem to be under the impression that sign language is only made with the hands. When you say "much more is going on" you're making more sense about ASL. The mouth, body, eyes, face, hands, and arms are all involved in ASL. Yes, of course people who use sign language rely on more information than just the hands. However, that does not mean that speaking, or word-for-word mouthing (with no sound produced), is necessary to understand sign language. Also, using speech does not mean someone is hearing, not using speech does not mean someone is deaf. Plenty of deaf people speak when they sign, they are not "pretending to be hearing," and plenty of hearing people don't speak when they sign, they are not "pretending to be deaf."

If YOU have been unable to learn sign language without using speaking along with it, that is only YOUR issue with how sign language is taught.

I couldn't have come up with a better response to that post. Good explaination and thanks!

stueyyy · 08-06-2008, 08:07 PM

I became APHL about 3 years ago, im 57 now so still have speech although im told it fluctuates from very very high, to very very very low, but if i slow down in controlled manner im ok. But i do wonder if its worth it sometimes, i find it easier just to shup up lol...

Stu

~*Kaelei*~ · 08-07-2008, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff_Andum

Of course they tell all of you that you talk normal, they don't want to hurt your feelings! Hearing people will lie sometimes just to spare your feelings. There are many Deaf people that can speak well enough that the hearing people can understand them....but Deaf people CANNOT talk normal like a hearing person......I dont care how much your hearing friends bullshit you. Also, there are many Deaf that try to voice for themselves insisting they can talk normal....YOU CANT...that is what the interpreter is there for. Continue to practice your speech skills......but dont get on here saying you can talk normal.....you are lying to yourself and everyone else.

For your information,

I have met deaf people that CAN talk normal...why on earth would they want to tell me a lie when I preferably want the truth.

I know I'm not lying to myself because it's the truth, I can speak like a normal person and I'm telling you the truth, I do not have deaf accent...believe me, they were shocked when I told them that I'm Deaf.

I never had interpreter most of my life up til after high school...unless you count Captioner an interpreter...I had that since 3rd grade up to 12th grade, but really, it's not that much a difference, I'm just reading and I can hear what the teachers are saying. I pretty much had Speech Therpy from 16 months old to 18 years old, and my parents/friends/Family always help me to say the word correctly...

It take practice to learn speech and you know what...I got better at it and I speak like a normal hearing person.

Now, don't piss me off and be mad at me because you think I'm lying. Well, I'm telling you that I'm not lying and I'm telling you the truth. Most won't even know that I'm deaf just by my talking...They only know once I tell them and show my CI (Which is mostly covered by my hair) and once they get to know me better and longer...they will notice that I sometimes ask to repeat what they have said...that's about it.

So Please refrain from yourself speaking about that...because in case you haven't noticed, you probably have offended some deaf people here. But You haven't offended me...I'm just pointing out the fact.

deafskeptic · 08-07-2008, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff_Andum

Of course they tell all of you that you talk normal, they don't want to hurt your feelings! Hearing people will lie sometimes just to spare your feelings. There are many Deaf people that can speak well enough that the hearing people can understand them....but Deaf people CANNOT talk normal like a hearing person......I dont care how much your hearing friends bullshit you. Also, there are many Deaf that try to voice for themselves insisting they can talk normal....YOU CANT...that is what the interpreter is there for. Continue to practice your speech skills......but dont get on here saying you can talk normal.....you are lying to yourself and everyone else.

I'm yet another deafie who can talk normal as a rule. I speak normal about 95% of the time; I still can't say the r in some words correctly. Most hearing don't realize even when I can't prononce the r correctly they're hearing deaf speech. They will assume that what they're hearing is a slight speech defect.

The interpreter is here to interpret with others say to me as I have a hard time following what other people say or when I have to sit thru a debate or lecture heavy class. Just because I have good speech doesn't mean my hearing is good.

Etoile · 08-07-2008, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff_Andum

Of course they tell all of you that you talk normal, they don't want to hurt your feelings! Hearing people will lie sometimes just to spare your feelings. There are many Deaf people that can speak well enough that the hearing people can understand them....but Deaf people CANNOT talk normal like a hearing person......I dont care how much your hearing friends bullshit you. Also, there are many Deaf that try to voice for themselves insisting they can talk normal....YOU CANT...that is what the interpreter is there for. Continue to practice your speech skills......but dont get on here saying you can talk normal.....you are lying to yourself and everyone else.

Wow, you're an asshat. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Etoile · 08-07-2008, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I couldn't have come up with a better response to that post. Good explaination and thanks!

Thank you!

AlleyCat · 08-07-2008, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff_Andum

Of course they tell all of you that you talk normal, they don't want to hurt your feelings! Hearing people will lie sometimes just to spare your feelings. There are many Deaf people that can speak well enough that the hearing people can understand them....but Deaf people CANNOT talk normal like a hearing person......I dont care how much your hearing friends bullshit you. Also, there are many Deaf that try to voice for themselves insisting they can talk normal....YOU CANT...that is what the interpreter is there for. Continue to practice your speech skills......but dont get on here saying you can talk normal.....you are lying to yourself and everyone else.

What a load of crap.

deafskeptic · 08-07-2008, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlleyCat

What a load of crap.

Agreed.

Lavender · 08-07-2008, 10:42 PM

Ha ha ha.. deaf can't talk normal not the same thing like hoh.

Hear Again · 10-14-2008, 03:27 AM

Despite having severe-profound hearing loss for 10 years prior to receiving my first CI, I've been told by hearies (pre-CI) that I could speak quite well with the exception of speaking too loudly as well as sounding monotonous, "nasaly" and as if I had a lisp. Now that I have CIs, I'm able to regulate my voice and speak at a normal volume.

overthepond · 10-14-2008, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff_Andum

Of course they tell all of you that you talk normal, they don't want to hurt your feelings! Hearing people will lie sometimes just to spare your feelings. There are many Deaf people that can speak well enough that the hearing people can understand them....but Deaf people CANNOT talk normal like a hearing person......I dont care how much your hearing friends bullshit you. Also, there are many Deaf that try to voice for themselves insisting they can talk normal....YOU CANT...that is what the interpreter is there for. Continue to practice your speech skills......but dont get on here saying you can talk normal.....you are lying to yourself and everyone else.

Ahem! Then how when I am at work I never tell my clients that I am deaf (i am lifelong profoundly deaf), When they ask me for advice, tips, etc and we often end up with conversation. Then often they come back asking for me to help them as I was good to them, quite alot of times after 3 or 4 visits, those times i had my hair up they said "oh i didn't realise you were Hard of hearing" I said nope I am Profoundly deaf. They thought my speech was beyond exceptional and asked me how I managed it with very little hearing. Intensive speech therapy until i was 16, Oral deaf school aswell, and my Damn stubborness!
I am now 30/ci user (only had it 2 months) I was told I don't need speech therapy, and to be honest why should I need it I communicate very well with outside world.

If I were you you need to re read what you wrote. And don't bother coming on here if you carry on insulting us.

JClarke · 10-14-2008, 06:28 AM

"Can you talk?"

"Oh, I speak deaf..."

"Whoa! You can talk!"

David · 10-17-2008, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff_Andum

Of course they tell all of you that you talk normal, they don't want to hurt your feelings! Hearing people will lie sometimes just to spare your feelings. There are many Deaf people that can speak well enough that the hearing people can understand them....but Deaf people CANNOT talk normal like a hearing person......I dont care how much your hearing friends bullshit you. Also, there are many Deaf that try to voice for themselves insisting they can talk normal....YOU CANT...that is what the interpreter is there for. Continue to practice your speech skills......but dont get on here saying you can talk normal.....you are lying to yourself and everyone else.

Interesting. I have been told by college professors (professors, not instructors), that they didn't realize I was deaf. I have told medical doctors to look at me when they speak so I can read their lips due to deafness. I have told lawyers and judges that I needed sign language interpreters in court only to see them appalled and confess to me that they had no idea I was deaf. These are all intelligent and well-educated people; they are qualified to criticize a person's grammar and linguistics. They all admitted to me that I speak just as well as they do. Therefore, your argument is without merit.

Furthermore, I speak three languages and I am profound deaf.

You, Jeff_Andum, are obviously ignorant about the issue of which you spoke.

Hear Again · 10-18-2008, 12:03 AM

>>Of course they tell all of you that you talk normal, they don't want to hurt your feelings! Hearing people will lie sometimes just to spare your feelings. There are many Deaf people that can speak well enough that the hearing people can understand them....but Deaf people CANNOT talk normal like a hearing person......I dont care how much your hearing friends bullshit you. Also, there are many Deaf that try to voice for themselves insisting they can talk normal....YOU CANT...that is what the interpreter is there for. Continue to practice your speech skills......but dont get on here saying you can talk normal.....you are lying to yourself and everyone else.<<

I'm not big "D" deaf, but I have friends who are and I'm insulted by your post. If I remember correctly, you're an interpreter (or are currently in training to become one). If that's the case, you ought to go back to your ITP and learn a little more about Deaf culture.

Etoile · 10-18-2008, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hear Again

I'm not big "D" deaf, but I have friends who are and I'm insulted by your post. If I remember correctly, you're an interpreter (or are currently in training to become one). If that's the case, you ought to go back to your ITP and learn a little more about Deaf culture.

Agreed!

shel90 · 10-18-2008, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff_Andum

Of course they tell all of you that you talk normal, they don't want to hurt your feelings! Hearing people will lie sometimes just to spare your feelings. There are many Deaf people that can speak well enough that the hearing people can understand them....but Deaf people CANNOT talk normal like a hearing person......I dont care how much your hearing friends bullshit you. Also, there are many Deaf that try to voice for themselves insisting they can talk normal....YOU CANT...that is what the interpreter is there for. Continue to practice your speech skills......but dont get on here saying you can talk normal.....you are lying to yourself and everyone else.

So, I talk so badly that people are so shocked when I tell them I am deaf after talking with me for a quite wel? I guess they lied to me when they said that they would have never known that I am deaf due to my excellent speech skills? I will go back and tell them that they should be ashamed of themselves!

Really, I couldnt care less if I dont talk perfectly or not.. If I dont ..life goes on..I stopped caring since I learned ASL.

Bottesini · 10-18-2008, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob

"Can you talk?"

"Oh, I speak deaf..."

"Whoa! You can talk!"

I like the "I speak deaf" response.

SimplyMints · 10-18-2008, 12:00 PM

Er, I had surgery yesterday, and I'm on some strong medication at the moment, so what I'm about to say may contain more flaws than usual

I was born and grew up with better hearing than most people tested at the age I was originally tested in first or second grade, don't remember which. Anyway, I began losing my hearing at around age 20, and as of this summer, I was told that I have absolutely no residual hearing.

Jeez, I think I'm about to pass out. Well, let me see if I can finish this thought.

My mom and my sister have told me that my speech is exactly the same as when I was hearing, although I did have a little speech therapy earlier, which may have given me an advantage over those who haven't.

There are times, however, when I cannot figure out what word to say, and I must sign it. If I were signing ASL, there are vast amounts of concepts that are expressed in ASL in such a way as to be impossible to duplicate in voice, and I mean IMPOSSIBLE. You can have an IQ of 10,000 and it will be impossible. It has nothing to do with skill. The basic principals of the language of ASL are entirely different from all spoken languages.

However, because my family originally agreed to learn SEE, I reluctantly ordered a SEE dictionary and studied and learned SEE so that I could communicate with them. I very quickly became fluent since SEE is an exact copy of my native language of English. My mom wanted me to speak while I signed because she believed that she would learn more quickly that way. However, though I can speak very well and I can sign in SEE very well, when I try to do both at once, they both simultaneously suffer tremendously. I know there are people who can speak and sign at the same time, but they are not speaking English while signing ASL. In all likelihood, they're signing PSE or SEE.

I did have a deaf ASL instructor who spoke when he signed, but he was not speaking English. He only spoke in ASL word order, and always left out concepts that couldn't be translated directly into English. He did this only for the first few weeks of the class, and after that, speaking was forbidden. The advantage I got out of the rule against speaking was actually that it encouraged us to learn ASL much more quickly due to it being our only form of communication combined with our need to communicate. It doesn't mean you can't speak out in the real world, but it's a very useful and effective educational tool.

Now, with my limited experience with ASL, I feel I should point out that from what I've seen, I wouldn't recommend speaking while signing ASL because for one thing, it doesn't make sense, and for another thing, not speaking allows you to use more facial expressions to emphasise what you're signing. Besides, as many have pointed out, it's not the same language, so it's silly to speak two languages at once, even if you have a duel-core processor in your brain that allows you do that.

This is my personal viewpoint and experiences, granted I've expressed them while under the influence of a potent pain medication due to my recent surgery yesterday

kula23 · 10-18-2008, 01:26 PM

I was born deaf but can hear little without my hearing aids. I been oral all my life and people though I am hearing but I am not. And as for ASL to sign and speak, that is very difficult for me to do at same time because it is not match ASL and English. So I don't use my voice when I sign. I am very thankful my parent forced me oral, it's very useful in hearing world but at same time I felt bad that some deaf people can't speak but to write on paper which it is sucks.

08-06-2008, 05:45 PM	#273 (permalink)
~Kaelei~ Slytherin Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 193	I'm profoundly Deaf and I've been told by many people that I talk normal like hearing person, that they can't detect the accent of Deafness. shrugs I believe that people who went to Oral school and is profoundly deaf can speak normal...I have friends who can speak normal but some have little deaf accent and some don't. It just depends on the person and the training they went through. __________________

08-06-2008, 08:07 PM	#276 (permalink)
stueyyy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Southeast England. Posts: 25	Hello I became APHL about 3 years ago, im 57 now so still have speech although im told it fluctuates from very very high, to very very very low, but if i slow down in controlled manner im ok. But i do wonder if its worth it sometimes, i find it easier just to shup up lol... Stu

08-07-2008, 10:42 PM	#283 (permalink)
Lavender Season's Greetings Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Mother Earth Posts: 609	Ha ha ha.. deaf can't talk normal not the same thing like hoh. __________________

10-14-2008, 03:27 AM	#284 (permalink)
Hear Again Proud Beeper/5150 Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin and my own little manic world... Posts: 7,655	Despite having severe-profound hearing loss for 10 years prior to receiving my first CI, I've been told by hearies (pre-CI) that I could speak quite well with the exception of speaking too loudly as well as sounding monotonous, "nasaly" and as if I had a lisp. Now that I have CIs, I'm able to regulate my voice and speak at a normal volume. __________________ Left ear - Nucleus 24 Contour Advance with Freedom BTE (Implanted: 12/22/04 \| Activated: 1/18/05) Right ear - Nucleus Freedom (Implanted: 2/1/06 \| Activated: 3/1/06) Deafblind/Postlingual What is bipolar disorder? What are the different types of bipolar disorder? "All things are difficult before they are easy." -- Thomas Fuller

10-14-2008, 06:28 AM	#286 (permalink)
JClarke AD addict Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Down Under Posts: 14,256 Blog Entries: 4	"Can you talk?" "Oh, I speak deaf..." "Whoa! You can talk!" __________________

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08-06-2008, 06:50 PM	#274 (permalink)
Jeff_Andum Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 18	Of course they tell all of you that you talk normal, they don't want to hurt your feelings! Hearing people will lie sometimes just to spare your feelings. There are many Deaf people that can speak well enough that the hearing people can understand them....but Deaf people CANNOT talk normal like a hearing person......I dont care how much your hearing friends bullshit you. Also, there are many Deaf that try to voice for themselves insisting they can talk normal....YOU CANT...that is what the interpreter is there for. Continue to practice your speech skills......but dont get on here saying you can talk normal.....you are lying to yourself and everyone else.

10-18-2008, 12:03 AM	#288 (permalink)
Hear Again Proud Beeper/5150 Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Wisconsin and my own little manic world... Posts: 7,655	>>Of course they tell all of you that you talk normal, they don't want to hurt your feelings! Hearing people will lie sometimes just to spare your feelings. There are many Deaf people that can speak well enough that the hearing people can understand them....but Deaf people CANNOT talk normal like a hearing person......I dont care how much your hearing friends bullshit you. Also, there are many Deaf that try to voice for themselves insisting they can talk normal....YOU CANT...that is what the interpreter is there for. Continue to practice your speech skills......but dont get on here saying you can talk normal.....you are lying to yourself and everyone else.<< I'm not big "D" deaf, but I have friends who are and I'm insulted by your post. If I remember correctly, you're an interpreter (or are currently in training to become one). If that's the case, you ought to go back to your ITP and learn a little more about Deaf culture. __________________ Left ear - Nucleus 24 Contour Advance with Freedom BTE (Implanted: 12/22/04 \| Activated: 1/18/05) Right ear - Nucleus Freedom (Implanted: 2/1/06 \| Activated: 3/1/06) Deafblind/Postlingual What is bipolar disorder? What are the different types of bipolar disorder? "All things are difficult before they are easy." -- Thomas Fuller

10-18-2008, 12:00 PM	#292 (permalink)
SimplyMints I love all my ponies! Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Eastern Oregon, USA Posts: 815 Blog Entries: 1	Er, I had surgery yesterday, and I'm on some strong medication at the moment, so what I'm about to say may contain more flaws than usual I was born and grew up with better hearing than most people tested at the age I was originally tested in first or second grade, don't remember which. Anyway, I began losing my hearing at around age 20, and as of this summer, I was told that I have absolutely no residual hearing. Jeez, I think I'm about to pass out. Well, let me see if I can finish this thought. My mom and my sister have told me that my speech is exactly the same as when I was hearing, although I did have a little speech therapy earlier, which may have given me an advantage over those who haven't. There are times, however, when I cannot figure out what word to say, and I must sign it. If I were signing ASL, there are vast amounts of concepts that are expressed in ASL in such a way as to be impossible to duplicate in voice, and I mean IMPOSSIBLE. You can have an IQ of 10,000 and it will be impossible. It has nothing to do with skill. The basic principals of the language of ASL are entirely different from all spoken languages. However, because my family originally agreed to learn SEE, I reluctantly ordered a SEE dictionary and studied and learned SEE so that I could communicate with them. I very quickly became fluent since SEE is an exact copy of my native language of English. My mom wanted me to speak while I signed because she believed that she would learn more quickly that way. However, though I can speak very well and I can sign in SEE very well, when I try to do both at once, they both simultaneously suffer tremendously. I know there are people who can speak and sign at the same time, but they are not speaking English while signing ASL. In all likelihood, they're signing PSE or SEE. I did have a deaf ASL instructor who spoke when he signed, but he was not speaking English. He only spoke in ASL word order, and always left out concepts that couldn't be translated directly into English. He did this only for the first few weeks of the class, and after that, speaking was forbidden. The advantage I got out of the rule against speaking was actually that it encouraged us to learn ASL much more quickly due to it being our only form of communication combined with our need to communicate. It doesn't mean you can't speak out in the real world, but it's a very useful and effective educational tool. Now, with my limited experience with ASL, I feel I should point out that from what I've seen, I wouldn't recommend speaking while signing ASL because for one thing, it doesn't make sense, and for another thing, not speaking allows you to use more facial expressions to emphasise what you're signing. Besides, as many have pointed out, it's not the same language, so it's silly to speak two languages at once, even if you have a duel-core processor in your brain that allows you do that. This is my personal viewpoint and experiences, granted I've expressed them while under the influence of a potent pain medication due to my recent surgery yesterday __________________ "A world that is not on the verge of annihilation can still be perfectly stimulating, and definitely not boring." - Andrea Berlinghoff

10-18-2008, 01:26 PM	#293 (permalink)
kula23 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 92	I was born deaf but can hear little without my hearing aids. I been oral all my life and people though I am hearing but I am not. And as for ASL to sign and speak, that is very difficult for me to do at same time because it is not match ASL and English. So I don't use my voice when I sign. I am very thankful my parent forced me oral, it's very useful in hearing world but at same time I felt bad that some deaf people can't speak but to write on paper which it is sucks.