Nancy

You know the sign where "the two middle fingers are down, the pinky and the index fingers are up" that you see from hearing people in football games on TV, etc.? The last time I saw that in a DEAF setting was that it's considered a "bad word".
What's the difference? Or does the hearing people on TV didn't realize they were signing a bad word? LOL

Deafness

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Reba

I think you are describing the Texas Longhorns "sign". It is not a bad sign/word. It's like the Atlanta Braves fans doing the "tomahawk chop". It shows team support.

Beowulf

Then it is just INCREDIBLE how many people worldwide are, ummm, Longhorn fans.

Nancy

Well, the last time I heard it is the sign for "B.S."....anyway, here's a link on people talking about different interpretations of this sign.

http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/u...;f=26;t=001045

Beowulf

Wow, SO MANY Longhorns fans!!

Whoaaaa, harmless sports gestures, yeah right.
Yup.
Jeeez, people, wake up.
We are beset upon by a great evil.

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Reba

She asked about the "sign" as used by "hearing people in football games on TV"; in that setting, it is very likely they are Longhorn fans.

Reba

Yeah, Texas is a big state, and they have many fans.

Your first photo shows the Bushes greeting fellow Texans.
Your second photo looks more like someone holding his suit jacket; notice that the fingers are not pointing at anyone.
Your third photo doesn't show the context but since Prez Bush is in the photo addressing someone, I assume the gesture is in support of Texans.

If you are trying to make a point with news photos, you have got to provide the story that goes with them.

Yeah, and it's called "paranoia".

Reba

Texas Longhorns "Hook'em Horns" site:

http://www.texassports.com/index.php...article_id=121

University of Texas at Austin cheerleader Harley Clark knew what he was going to teach football fans at a 1955 pep rally was going to catch on faster than poodle skirts and leather jackets. It had to. After all, the Texas A&M Aggies' "Gig 'em" gesture had been around for years.

Clark sold the student body on the symbolic approximation of the horns of Longhorn mascot Bevo and, thus, began the "Hook 'em Horns" hand signal.

The salute quickly took its place beside the university traditions of singing The Eyes of Texas and lighting the Tower orange.

Fellow student Henry Pitts, who had come up with the Longhorn sign during an inspired game of shadow casting, had shown Clark the sign three days before the Texas Christian University game.

At the Gregory Gym pep rally for that game, Clark showed everyone how to make the Horns hand sign and then proclaimed it to be used from that time forward. By the thousands, the university faithful extended their pinkies and index fingers toward heaven.

"A lot of my friends thought it would be too corny, but I thought it was perfect," said Clark in a recent interview. "Everyone walked out of Gregory Gym that night crazy with it."

The next day at the game, Clark watched the "Hook 'em Horns" gesture surge around the stadium from one side to the other....

Interpretrator

True, it has both the Satanic "death metal" meaning and the Texas Longhorns meaning.

But in Europe (I think especially Italy, but maybe other countries as well), it is a "bad word." Literally it means "I put the evil eye on you" but I think it has the same connotation as the middle finger in the U.S. or the V-sign in England.

(I find it really funny when people think they're giving the Satan sign but they extend their thumb and are really just signing "I love you.")

Banjo

Actually, no. Hearing folks use the B.S. sign too, I remember the principal in the movie The Breakfast Club using the sign to say that the student is full of bullshit. At least, that's what I recall.

Reba

Hubby and I have been hearing people for over 50 years, and neither of us have seen other hearing people use that sign. We have lived in various states, and visited a few countries, and have never seen hearies use that as a B.S. sign. I haven't seen the movie The Breakfast Club, so I can't say anything about that.

Interpretrator

No, he was using it in the "evil eye" context, to scare the student. I don't think hearing people know about the "B.S." meaning of the sign. Like Reba, I've never seen a hearing person use it like that (who didn't know sign, that is!).

Banjo

Oh, that's what it was? It must had been at least 8 years or more since I've seen the movie. So pardon my vaguely recalled memory of the movie, I saw it only once, but recall the gesture. But thanks for clarifying that.

deafdyke

Yeah, it's the evil eye. Why are we posting about this? There are words with multiple meanings too.....ever read one of those essays on how different the English language is in Britain vs the US?

Interpretrator

No worries, I grew up in "the John Hughes years" so that movie is permanently etched onto my subconscious. I always thought it was a really weird gesture to make.

I don't know, I've been in lots of conversations with deaf people that go "what does this sign mean?" "no it means this" "well I've seen people using it like this" "but would you use it like this?" etc. This thread has reminded me of one of those conversations. On the other hand most hearing people don't seem to care too much about the nuances of Englilsh language words, or at least not as much as the deaf people I know care about ASL.

kuifje75

I remember working with a guy who was like early 20s, and he gave me that sign before leaving. I asked what he meant by that, and he said it meant the eye of death or something. But he didn't use it as to wish me in a bad way or anything but it was probably a logo sign from a music group, methinks. I can't remember which one though.

Nancy

I heard of that movie before -- it was from the 1980s.

I am sorry if this is OFF TOPIC, but dear Banjo, I just noticed your new avatar, and you remind me of the actor Antonio Bandaras. You look kind of like him,
and he is one of the nicest looking celebs I've seen.

Banjo

Thanks for the very generous compliment.

bigdaddyb

This sign actually has several meanings. In Texas it's used by Longhorn fans. They display it and say "hook 'em horns".

It's used in metal music all over the world. The origin of its usage there is traced to Ronnie James Dio. He said his grandmother, who is Italian, used it to give or protect from the evil eye. I forget her word for it.

I've also heard that it's been used by satanists, but haven't verified this.

Being a 'hearie', I can tell you that if you see hearing people using a sign, assuming that it's meaning is different from usage in deaf culture is a given. Most hearing people are 100% ignorant of deaf language and culture. I know I was for most of my life.

Hope this helps to clear things up. The VAST majority of hearing people understand ZERO about the deaf world and its subculture. They don't even know that a deaf subculture exists. I didn't.

Hearing people aren't bad. Most people are self-centered. If something doesn't directly effect them on a regular basis, they remain in ignorance of its existance.

I really enjoy reading this forum and will go back to lurk mode now.

brianb

apathrev

Definetely sounds like "the devil's hand sign" or whatever you feel like calling it. It does have several meaning. The meaning I am most familiar with is "rock on." You will see this used at rock concerts, etc. Basically just a sign of encouragement. I was never actually aware of the Long Horns meaning. I believe the sign was made famous by heavy metal rocker Ronny James Dio among the rock music, but then again, I got that off VH1.

ThatGuy

I use the "rock on" symbol allllllll the time, but if I am actually signing, then i use it only as lazy shorthand for B.S.

dkf747

One other possibility. If you saw the referee in a football game do it, I think it means, "second down".