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Unread 02-15-2012, 08:23 PM   #1
shel90
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Sickening!!!!

I am SICK!!!! This is quoted by HEARINDIANA.ORG website, encouraging citizens of Indiana to write to their senators using this letter.... READ ON!!!

Dear Senator __________,

I am writing to encourage your SUPPORT for HB 1367.

{INSERT YOUR PERSONAL STORY. PLEASE INCLUDE YOUR EXPERIENCES WITH ISD/OUTREACH. OUR REPRESENTATIVES NEED TO KNOW WHY ISD/OUTREACH IS NOT APPROPRIATE FOR ALL FAMILIES.}

IMPORTANT FACTS:

95% of deaf and hard of hearing babies are born to HEARING parents.
80-90% of parents choose a Listening and Spoken Language as their communication option.
Newborn babies can wear hearing aids, and profoundly deaf babies can get a cochlear implant at age one.
99% of all profoundly deaf children are candidates for a cochlear implant, a device which allows them to listen, speak, and thrive in the hearing community.

Indiana's status quo concerning deaf and hard of hearing education is NOT working effectively for 80% of all Hoosier families. Of course, 100% of parents deserve to receive unbiased, comprehensive information about communication options, so they can make an informed decision about what is best for their family. HB 1367 will help ALL children who are deaf or hard of hearing, not just some of them. ALL parents deserve to have their communication choice(s) respected. Likewise, a family's use (or non-use) of hearing technology should be respected and supported through appropriate services. Under the current system, Hoosier parents do NOT have equal access to all communication options or information about hearing technology. Outreach services for the entire state should not be associated with one school and ONE philosophy.

HB 1367 is NOT adding an agency, but rather, it is moving one. Unlike ISD/Outreach, which promotes ASL as the language for thinking, the new Center would be unbiased toward any particular mode of communication. It would serve ALL deaf and hard of hearing families regardless of the communication methods chosen.

HB 1367 includes tracking and monitoring of children who are deaf and hard of hearing as they are identified and enrolled in appropriate services. These activities will prevent children from falling through the cracks. As a result, the State of Indiana will spend less money in intervention down the road.

HB 1367 offers the opportunity to align our state with the best practices in early intervention for children who are deaf or hard of hearing. I will be very disappointed if we do not take advantage of this opportunity to make our Indiana system work for all children who need it.

Every 48 hours a baby in Indiana is born with a hearing loss. We can't wait. We must make this change NOW!

For our children’s future, please SUPPORT HB 1367.

Sincerely,
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Unread 02-15-2012, 08:25 PM   #2
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This is bullshit...
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Unread 02-15-2012, 08:25 PM   #3
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NOW THIS MAKES SENSE and IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO...

It's time to help Indiana again! The National Association of the Deaf (NAD) asks everyone who can, to attend a rally to support the Indiana School for the Deaf in Indianapolis on Thursday, February 16th. Testimony in the Indiana Senate on State House Bill 1367 will begin at 8 am on February 16th. Deaf people as well as parents of Deaf children and all allies need to help convince the state senators to vote against this misguided bill.

The NAD also asks that everyone call and/or email Indiana Senators and ask them to oppose Indiana State House Bill 1367. The bill would remove the outreach center currently housed at the Indiana School for the Deaf, terminate all staff working in that center, and recreate a new outreach center separate from the school. HEAR Indiana is the major proponent of this bill. Please find the phone numbers and emails of Indiana Senators in the Indiana Association of the Deaf Action Alert at the bottom of this news release.

The outreach center already provides comprehensive and impartial information to all deaf and hard of hearing children and their parents in Indiana. There is no need to dismantle this outreach center and begin all over again with a new center. Doing so also is fiscally irresponsible and unnecessary in these difficult economic times.

The National Association of the Deaf sent a letter to Indiana Senators, and asks all members and supporters to call or send their own emails and letters to these Indiana Senators. More information about the bill, contact information for Indiana Senators, and how to write a letter is provided below.
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Unread 02-18-2012, 11:02 PM   #4
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Just wanted to say... I am SO against this... Even if they do want to make changes, why do they need to move the existing facility?

OMG *gasp* it's on a DEAF SCHOOL campus! I think I'm gonna faint!

[/sarcasm]

And as far as I can see, ISD's outreach program isn't all that biased and doesn't necessarily "promote ASL as the language for thinking" above all else. Yes, the school believes that ASL is the most accessible language for communication and thinking (a belief I agree with), but they also consider ASL and English as equal. Just because the school believes ASL is the most accessible, that doesn't mean the outreach program can't represent a continuum of modes/opportunities/services in an unbiased way.

And what about Hear Indiana's bias? Their mission/vision statement SCREAMS oralism in a way that is much more biased than ISD's mission/vision/bilingualism statements.

I'm not sure whether it's a good or a bad thing that Senate didn't vote on this on Thursday like they planned to.

Did I mention I don't particularly like Hear Indiana?
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Unread 02-18-2012, 11:50 PM   #5
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An unbiased approach sounds like a pretty good idea to me.
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Unread 02-19-2012, 01:50 AM   #6
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An unbiased approach sounds like a pretty good idea to me.
Me, too. But from what I've found, the current outreach program isn't biased to begin with, so I don't really understand why the current center needs to be eliminated in the first place. A girl who is a senior at ISD put her testimony/case forward, and a she makes a pretty good case for them being unbiased. IMO, the current outreach isn't broken, so why should we fix it (especially when "fixing it" could require a bit of money)?

(BTW, I was very angry--not necessarily just at the bill, but for a number of reasons--when I made my other post, so if anyone thinks I was extremely hostile, that wasn't how I meant to come off.)
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Unread 02-19-2012, 07:22 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by shel90 View Post
NOW THIS MAKES SENSE and IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO...

It's time to help Indiana again! The National Association of the Deaf (NAD) asks everyone who can, to attend a rally to support the Indiana School for the Deaf in Indianapolis on Thursday, February 16th. Testimony in the Indiana Senate on State House Bill 1367 will begin at 8 am on February 16th. Deaf people as well as parents of Deaf children and all allies need to help convince the state senators to vote against this misguided bill.

The NAD also asks that everyone call and/or email Indiana Senators and ask them to oppose Indiana State House Bill 1367. The bill would remove the outreach center currently housed at the Indiana School for the Deaf, terminate all staff working in that center, and recreate a new outreach center separate from the school. HEAR Indiana is the major proponent of this bill. Please find the phone numbers and emails of Indiana Senators in the Indiana Association of the Deaf Action Alert at the bottom of this news release.

The outreach center already provides comprehensive and impartial information to all deaf and hard of hearing children and their parents in Indiana. There is no need to dismantle this outreach center and begin all over again with a new center. Doing so also is fiscally irresponsible and unnecessary in these difficult economic times.

The National Association of the Deaf sent a letter to Indiana Senators, and asks all members and supporters to call or send their own emails and letters to these Indiana Senators. More information about the bill, contact information for Indiana Senators, and how to write a letter is provided below.
Any updated status on it? i missed this one.
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Unread 02-19-2012, 12:11 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by purplewowies View Post
Me, too. But from what I've found, the current outreach program isn't biased to begin with, so I don't really understand why the current center needs to be eliminated in the first place. A girl who is a senior at ISD put her testimony/case forward, and a she makes a pretty good case for them being unbiased. IMO, the current outreach isn't broken, so why should we fix it (especially when "fixing it" could require a bit of money)?

(BTW, I was very angry--not necessarily just at the bill, but for a number of reasons--when I made my other post, so if anyone thinks I was extremely hostile, that wasn't how I meant to come off.)
I had to really dig through this site to find a mention of CIs. I don't know anything about ISD specifically, but in general, from what I have seen on various websites, it would be rare at best to find an unbiased opinion on a school campus. Seems to me moving the outreach off campus would give parents access to more balanced information.

Indiana School for the Deaf: Outreach
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Unread 02-19-2012, 12:24 PM   #9
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Any updated status on it? i missed this one.
As far as I know, the most recent info is that there was supposed to be a vote on it on Thursday, but there was no vote that day. I can't find anything on when the vote might be now, so that's the most recent info.
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Unread 02-19-2012, 08:51 PM   #10
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TxGolfer, there's already an unbiased approach. The thing is, what AG Bell does not understand is that Deaf schools are NOT some glorious voice off paradise. Even lots of DODAs get speech training!?!?! HEAR in Indiana, seems to think that EVERY dhh kid has access to good suburban schools without maybe thinking that kids may be stuck in Gary Indiana or other horrible schools. Hell, even a suburban school can be really bad. I know of a case where a 5th grade girl is struggling even thou she's an auditory verbal sucess....I keep encouraging the mother to send her kid to ISD. There are prolly tons and tons and tons of stories like that out there.
Also, the stats are inaccurate. Yes, many parents chose oral only for their kids.....but many of them are already HOH.
Plus, a lot of profound kids can benifit from HAs...one of my best friends is profound
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Unread 02-19-2012, 09:10 PM   #11
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TxGolfer, there's already an unbiased approach. The thing is, what AG Bell does not understand is that Deaf schools are NOT some glorious voice off paradise. Even lots of DODAs get speech training!?!?! HEAR in Indiana, seems to think that EVERY dhh kid has access to good suburban schools without maybe thinking that kids may be stuck in Gary Indiana or other horrible schools. Hell, even a suburban school can be really bad. I know of a case where a 5th grade girl is struggling even thou she's an auditory verbal sucess....I keep encouraging the mother to send her kid to ISD. There are prolly tons and tons and tons of stories like that out there.
Also, the stats are inaccurate. Yes, many parents chose oral only for their kids.....but many of them are already HOH.
Plus, a lot of profound kids can benifit from HAs...one of my best friends is profound
:Hmm: I don't see anything about closing ISD in the letter. And it seems equal access is the goal of the bill.

Quote:
Under the current system, Hoosier parents do NOT have equal access to all communication options or information about hearing technology. Outreach services for the entire state should not be associated with one school and ONE philosophy.
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Unread 02-19-2012, 09:45 PM   #12
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TxGolfer, you don't understand that they already have the choices. Even oral....The fuss is that it's not being presented in an pro "auditory verbal" "dhh kids can be a part of the hearing world and not need ASL and deaf stuff" platform.
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Unread 02-19-2012, 09:57 PM   #13
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TxGolfer, you don't understand that they already have the choices. Even oral....The fuss is that it's not being presented in an pro "auditory verbal" "dhh kids can be a part of the hearing world and not need ASL and deaf stuff" platform.
I'm going by the letter and the bill.
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Unread 02-19-2012, 11:23 PM   #14
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We can't go just off of Hear Indiana's form letter, though, since they as an organization are biased. If we're going to look at Hear Indiana's stuff, we should be looking at IAD's stuff, too. I'm currently looking at IAD's website to see if they have a form letter and to check what parts of said letter contradict/agree with Hear Indiana's letter.

Here's their letter:

Quote:
Please register my opposition to HB 1367 and Vote NO to this bill. Rather than revamp…enhance already existing services at ISD’s Outreach.

This bill is NOT about parent Choice of options and services when it comes to Outreach services for Deaf and Hard of Hearing Children. It is about gutting one state agency that is an expert in Deaf Education and Early Intervention, the Indiana School for the Deaf Outreach, to replace it with an unknown, unplanned, and unfunded agency under the SOLE direction of the Office of Management and Budget with no accountability to anyone.

This bill was based upon NO official OMB report on ISD’s Outreach and NO accurate fiscal analysis. This bill aims to gut ISD’s Outreach by reinventing the wheel with NO Plan instead of simply enhancing services that are already provided through ISD’s Outreach. This bill is not a Study Group…this bill creates a team SOLELY administered and overseen by OMB who has full authority to hire who they want and place this center wherever they like. This bill seriously leaves out Deaf/ASL Professionals. Deaf children WILL fall through the cracks without Deaf professionals.

* ASL means American Sign Language. A full language comparable to any spoken language.

FACTS:
  • ISD’s Outreach Holds NO Bias and DOES meet the resource needs of ALL Deaf and Hard of Hearing Children in Indiana. Deaf professionals work along hearing professionals to provide Best Practices in Early Intervention and Education.
  • ISD’s Outreach already works with DOE, DOH, FSSA, Early Steps, and even a private religious oral school called St. Joseph Institute for the Deaf.
  • ISD’s Outreach is separate from ISD “the school”. Don’t let them throw you off: ISD’s test scores are low because many students who are in mainstream who are failing get enrolled at ISD at a late ages…8, 12, 15 etc., many times middle school. By this time, they are so far behind in language and academics that it is almost impossible to catch them up. ISD tries its best BUT this still pulls ISD’s state test scores down. Those students that start at ISD at an early age, on the average, do VERY well on their state testing. So don’t be fooled. ISD is one of the top schools for the Deaf in the nation.
  • 90% of Deaf children come from hearing families. 80% are mainstreamed. There is N0 data on how many use ASL or spoken language or both.
  • Cochlear implants are not a cure. Many children with cochlear implants will not benefit from them or will later stop using them. The cochlear implant removes all hearing and when the cochlear implant breaks down or batteries fail, the child is left without any residual hearing.
  • St. Joseph Institute for the Deaf who provide services for ages 0 to 8 and Hear Indiana organization are advocate for oral only education and Outreach. This small private school does not provide for any ASL and in fact prohibits its use. ISD’s Outreach is inclusive of all approaches, languages, and opportunities for all ages of Deaf and Hard of Hearing from ages 0 to 21.
    Please vote responsibly…..Vote NO.

Thank You,
Your Name
Some notes on what I thought was contradictory:
1. Hear Indiana says the current outreach is biased; IAD doesn't. Which is it?
2. IAD states that the current outreach works with the auditory-oral school in Indy; Hear Indiana states that the current outreach is only associated with one philosophy.
3. IAD says 90% of children are born to hearing families; Hear Indiana says 95%. These can't both be correct.
4. Hear Indiana says children won't fall through the cracks; IAD says they will.
5. Hear Indiana says 80-90% of parents choose listening/spoken language as their communication option, whereas IAD says 80% of deaf children are mainstreamed and that there's no data on how many use ASL or spoken language or both.

What they agree upon:
1. The current system could be enhanced/improved.


Other thoughts:
I don't understand why this new thing's (apparently) going to be run by the Office of Management and Budget.

Also, here is the video of the girl I mentioned earlier (I felt the need to post it):


I'm not saying she's right or wrong. I tried to investigate some of the claims she made (namely the one about closing ISD/the "stated objective in [Hear Indiana's] newsletters"), but I couldn't find any online archive of Hear Indiana's newletters, only a page on their website where I could sign up to receive new issues.
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Unread 02-20-2012, 12:27 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by purplewowies View Post
We can't go just off of Hear Indiana's form letter, though, since they as an organization are biased. If we're going to look at Hear Indiana's stuff, we should be looking at IAD's stuff, too. I'm currently looking at IAD's website to see if they have a form letter and to check what parts of said letter contradict/agree with Hear Indiana's letter.

Here's their letter:



Some notes on what I thought was contradictory:
1. Hear Indiana says the current outreach is biased; IAD doesn't. Which is it?
2. IAD states that the current outreach works with the auditory-oral school in Indy; Hear Indiana states that the current outreach is only associated with one philosophy.
3. IAD says 90% of children are born to hearing families; Hear Indiana says 95%. These can't both be correct.
4. Hear Indiana says children won't fall through the cracks; IAD says they will.
5. Hear Indiana says 80-90% of parents choose listening/spoken language as their communication option, whereas IAD says 80% of deaf children are mainstreamed and that there's no data on how many use ASL or spoken language or both.

What they agree upon:
1. The current system could be enhanced/improved.


Other thoughts:
I don't understand why this new thing's (apparently) going to be run by the Office of Management and Budget.

Also, here is the video of the girl I mentioned earlier (I felt the need to post it):

Oppose Indiana HB 1367 - YouTube

I'm not saying she's right or wrong. I tried to investigate some of the claims she made (namely the one about closing ISD/the "stated objective in [Hear Indiana's] newsletters"), but I couldn't find any online archive of Hear Indiana's newletters, only a page on their website where I could sign up to receive new issues.
I stick with what I said earlier. I think moving the outreach off campus gives parents the best chance to receive balanced information. I guess we will see what happens.
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Unread 02-20-2012, 03:01 PM   #16
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Not understanding what this suppose mean? Hmmm, too many fancy words.
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Unread 02-20-2012, 08:18 PM   #17
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I stick with what I said earlier. I think moving the outreach off campus gives parents the best chance to receive balanced information. I guess we will see what happens.
Yes, but balanced info how? ISD contacts with St. Joseph's!!!! ISD's outreach offers the WHOLE APPROACH. ISD is the CENTER of Deaf Ed. Most dhh stuff is targeted towards OLD PEOPLE or late deafened people.
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Unread 02-20-2012, 08:42 PM   #18
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I stick with what I said earlier. I think moving the outreach off campus gives parents the best chance to receive balanced information. I guess we will see what happens.
I guess my major problem with this bill is that the major proponent is an oralist organization. I mean, why are IAD and NAD against it so much, and why are Hear Indiana and Cochlear Implant Online so for it? Something seems fishy.

Also, I found this on American Society for Deaf Children's site, and I think it covers my concern:

Quote:
ASDC shares this concern that the bill was drafted without comprehensive input from all of the stakeholders – from the Hoosier parents who were served by the current center, from the ISD School Board at large, from the Indiana Deaf Community, and from other Hoosier stakeholders. Transparency and inclusion of dialogues would have resulted in all parties supporting each other and be united with having a comprehensive center.
Basically, if everyone had provided input on the creation of the bill, I think there might be much less opposition toward it.

Really all anyone (supporting or opposing) can do is wait. There will be a committee proceeding on Thursday, but the public is not allowed to comment (though I believe it was said that they can watch it). Then, if it makes it out of committee, the entire Senate would vote on it.
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Unread 02-20-2012, 10:11 PM   #19
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Yes, but balanced info how? ISD contacts with St. Joseph's!!!! ISD's outreach offers the WHOLE APPROACH. ISD is the CENTER of Deaf Ed. Most dhh stuff is targeted towards OLD PEOPLE or late deafened people.
Yet you really have to dig through the outreach website to find any mention of CI's. That just doesn't seem balanced to me.
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Unread 02-21-2012, 01:01 AM   #20
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Well, the new Center will be more biased than usually and their research is really nothing to prove the fact. I oppose HB 1367 as well and I believe that Center should be in deaf school. The unbiased and biased are left to people to make their own thinking about how is bad with Center at deaf school.

Yup, Hear Indiana is obviously biased and side with AG Bell. They doesn't believe ASL as optional to communicate.

ASL is only language that I used to communicate after decade of failed speech therapies and CI never make success in my life. The cases are varies by person to person so person shouldn't forced to accept oral language if they can't thorough with speech therapies.

In Alabama, I doubt about anything will change and ASD (deaf school in Alabama) is homogeneously ASL. I met couple of ASD students at Gally and they are Class of 2011 so none of students wear CI. I believe that most students with CI attend at mainstream school. The education at ASD is much improving and most students graduated with regular HS diploma that equally to hearing school.
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Unread 02-21-2012, 07:00 PM   #21
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Well, the new Center will be more biased than usually and their research is really nothing to prove the fact. I oppose HB 1367 as well and I believe that Center should be in deaf school. The unbiased and biased are left to people to make their own thinking about how is bad with Center at deaf school.

Yup, Hear Indiana is obviously biased and side with AG Bell. They doesn't believe ASL as optional to communicate.

ASL is only language that I used to communicate after decade of failed speech therapies and CI never make success in my life. The cases are varies by person to person so person shouldn't forced to accept oral language if they can't thorough with speech therapies.

In Alabama, I doubt about anything will change and ASD (deaf school in Alabama) is homogeneously ASL. I met couple of ASD students at Gally and they are Class of 2011 so none of students wear CI. I believe that most students with CI attend at mainstream school. The education at ASD is much improving and most students graduated with regular HS diploma that equally to hearing school.
You realize you are basically stating the case FOR the bill, right?
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Unread 02-21-2012, 08:31 PM   #22
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Bill Says Deaf School Wouldn’t Run New Deaf Education Center

Bill Says Deaf School Wouldn’t Run New Deaf Education Center | News - Indiana Public Media

Outreach services to parents and families of deaf and hard of hearing children are handled by the Indiana School for the Deaf, or ISD. The legislation would transfer those duties — and the funds that go with them — to a new center for deaf and hard of hearing education.

The bill’s sponsors say they want to establish a place without a bias between two significant groups within the deaf community – those who support oral learning using cochlear implants and those who support American Sign Language, or ASL, education. Christopher Mann is the father of a deaf child who has cochlear implants. He says ASL supporters have not been welcoming since he and his wife opted to give their child the implants:

“Since that time, we have been referred to by some in the ASL community as child abusers,” Mann says.

Mann says the Indiana School for the Deaf does not give equal representation to oral education and ASL learning. But ISD senior Margaret Katter says the new center will hurt, not help, students, adding she questions the motives behind the bill.

“This is about redirecting the taxpayers’ money from experts at the deaf and hard of hearing education at outreach and ISD to private contracts, likely those who helped craft this bill,” she says.

The bill is up for a vote in a Senate committee this week.
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Unread 02-21-2012, 09:10 PM   #23
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You realize you are basically stating the case FOR the bill, right?
No, I don't support this bill.

I just support the Center to sticking at deaf school.

I'm strongly favor ASL and shouldn't left out of options.

ASL is extremely minority since oral language is supermajority.
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Unread 02-21-2012, 09:12 PM   #24
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Bill Says Deaf School Wouldn’t Run New Deaf Education Center | News - Indiana Public Media

Outreach services to parents and families of deaf and hard of hearing children are handled by the Indiana School for the Deaf, or ISD. The legislation would transfer those duties — and the funds that go with them — to a new center for deaf and hard of hearing education.

The bill’s sponsors say they want to establish a place without a bias between two significant groups within the deaf community – those who support oral learning using cochlear implants and those who support American Sign Language, or ASL, education. Christopher Mann is the father of a deaf child who has cochlear implants. He says ASL supporters have not been welcoming since he and his wife opted to give their child the implants:

“Since that time, we have been referred to by some in the ASL community as child abusers,” Mann says.

Mann says the Indiana School for the Deaf does not give equal representation to oral education and ASL learning. But ISD senior Margaret Katter says the new center will hurt, not help, students, adding she questions the motives behind the bill.

“This is about redirecting the taxpayers’ money from experts at the deaf and hard of hearing education at outreach and ISD to private contracts, likely those who helped craft this bill,” she says.

The bill is up for a vote in a Senate committee this week.
I hope this bill fails.
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Unread 02-21-2012, 09:23 PM   #25
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No, I don't support this bill.

I just support the Center to sticking at deaf school.

I'm strongly favor ASL and shouldn't left out of options.

ASL is extremely minority since oral language is supermajority.
I realize you are against the bill, but what you are saying totally supports the argument FOR the bill.
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Unread 02-22-2012, 06:42 PM   #26
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I realize you are against the bill, but what you are saying totally supports the argument FOR the bill.
How so? I think it's pretty clear that he is against it and doesn't support it.

I hope you aren't making a thinly veiled references to his English grammar.
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Unread 02-22-2012, 07:46 PM   #27
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[quote=TheWriteAlex;2034809]
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How so? I think it's pretty clear that he is against it and doesn't support it.
This.

Quote:
ASL is only language that I used to communicate after decade of failed speech therapies and CI never make success in my life. The cases are varies by person to person so person shouldn't forced to accept oral language if they can't thorough with speech therapies.

In Alabama, I doubt about anything will change and ASD (deaf school in Alabama) is homogeneously ASL. I met couple of ASD students at Gally and they are Class of 2011 so none of students wear CI. I believe that most students with CI attend at mainstream school.
Looks like a good argument for a more unbiased approach....especially if CI students are mainly in mainstream schools. I already noted that he was against them.

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I hope you aren't making a thinly veiled references to his English grammar.
Ridiculous.
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Unread 02-22-2012, 08:08 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by TXgolfer View Post

This.



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Looks like a good argument for a more unbiased approach....especially if CI students are mainly in mainstream schools. I already noted that he was against them.

Ridiculous.
How does that support the bill?
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Unread 02-22-2012, 08:44 PM   #29
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How does that support the bill?
Really?
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Unread 02-22-2012, 09:07 PM   #30
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Really?
I think it's funny how you, a late deafened adult with no experience at all in Deaf education, and someone who has not bothered to learn ASL (as far as I can tell from your posting), will assert that this "unbiased approach" is a good idea and try to tell that to Deaf people who have lived through the awful experience this bill is attempting to replicate. Of course you think it is unbiased because you have no clue about Deaf education, ISD or Deaf issues in Indiana, or HEAR Indiana. There's a reason every Deaf educator and Deaf person in the state, and probably the entire country, is against this bill.
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