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Unread 02-04-2012, 05:25 AM   #1
Doug5
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I am So Sick of Hearing That Raising Taxes is Bad For the Economy.

It is always the extremely wealthy/rich people making this argument.

The 99% people should use this argument against them. Lowering taxes on the middle class and poor helps the economy most. THe tax rate on the rich has negilible affect on the economy.

Get rid of sales taxes and gas taxes which hits the lowest income people the most.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 08:13 AM   #2
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And how would you pay for all the entitlement programs? Should not every person (note:I did not say every "rich" person) participate in funding entitlement programs?
An example would be those middle class taxpayers who fund alot of the programs but receive not one penny of service. I'm middle class and have never received one penny of SSI, SSDI, C.H.I.P., FOOD STAMPS, ETC. I've paid thousands and thousands of dollars in taxes.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 08:33 AM   #3
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I support the Fair Tax.

p.s.

I'm not rich.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 12:52 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by rolling7 View Post
And how would you pay for all the entitlement programs? Should not every person (note:I did not say every "rich" person) participate in funding entitlement programs?
An example would be those middle class taxpayers who fund alot of the programs but receive not one penny of service. I'm middle class and have never received one penny of SSI, SSDI, C.H.I.P., FOOD STAMPS, ETC. I've paid thousands and thousands of dollars in taxes.
who cares? We are already 15T in the whole. Whats wrong with 5T more?

Seriously, they can cut things like the military and DEA and shrink down the federal govmint. Quit subisidizing illegals. THen audit the Fed Reserve and see whats goin on with the monetary policy.

The fed taxes the old by lowering interests rates and printing too much money. This makes it impossible for people to make any money of interest in savings accounts and it also lowers the value of the money saved
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Unread 02-04-2012, 01:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug5 View Post
It is always the extremely wealthy/rich people making this argument.

The 99% people should use this argument against them. Lowering taxes on the middle class and poor helps the economy most. THe tax rate on the rich has negilible affect on the economy.

Get rid of sales taxes and gas taxes which hits the lowest income people the most.
Second here.

Some states like Oregon doesn't have sale tax.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 01:28 PM   #6
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who cares? We are already 15T in the whole. Whats wrong with 5T more?

Seriously, they can cut things like the military and DEA and shrink down the federal govmint. Quit subisidizing illegals. THen audit the Fed Reserve and see whats goin on with the monetary policy.

The fed taxes the old by lowering interests rates and printing too much money. This makes it impossible for people to make any money of interest in savings accounts and it also lowers the value of the money saved
Yup, I think that government should stop subsidizing on corns and other commodities, including gas.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 02:12 PM   #7
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Yup, I think that government should stop subsidizing on corns and other commodities, including gas.
Good for you to say that but don't stop there. Go after entitlement abuse also.
Right now there is a ton of news about WS, banks, mortgage companies, etc. abusing the systems and being charged (some even criminally) for the abuse. When will we see charges against the ordinary man who abuses the entitlement programs?
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Unread 02-04-2012, 02:16 PM   #8
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Unread 02-04-2012, 02:17 PM   #9
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i posted that on my FB wall last week. Love it.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 02:19 PM   #10
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Good for you to say that but don't stop there. Go after entitlement abuse also.
Right now there is a ton of news about WS, banks, mortgage companies, etc. abusing the systems and being charged (some even criminally) for the abuse. When will we see charges against the ordinary man who abuses the entitlement programs?
If they were caught abusing their entitlements, they'll be charged.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 02:57 PM   #11
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i posted that on my FB wall last week. Love it.
It's the best photo caption I've ever seen. I will recycle ad naseum.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 03:15 PM   #12
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LOL, I laughed at that when I saw you posting that on your FB.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 03:30 PM   #13
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snicker...

Ah... Where to start... I suppose you are aware of the Federal Reserve System, which was created to further the goals of the moneyed class, which was to get away from gold/silver as money towards fiat currency. Nixon cemented the deal on August 15, 1971, moving the US to a pure fiat system. Look what happened to the value of the US dollar vis-a-vis gold and oil in the 70s. Don't forget to look at what happened during the 20s just a mere decade after the FRS was implemented. Not long after that, the IRS was enacted, I believe, to create the apparent reality that the paper dollar was real, by requiring taxes to support the government, gold, silver, or paper dollars accepted. It has been used to hide the fact that all of your taxes collected each year cannot possibly cover the entire operating budget of the US Govt (I'm talking during the 20th century). Now, it's a well-known fact that our taxes don't pay for it all, thusly the deficits and the bonds/treasury games that serve as shell-games to make it look real. Make it look as though that China and several other countries really make it possible for the gov't to borrow money to operate. It's not real!

It is NOT that the rich people are not paying their taxes, but that gov't has gotten too big, and the business environment is very hostile to businesses with its numerous regulations and taxes. It's no wonder that jobs keep getting outsourced and more and more people are working on a part-time basis in this country. Please read the labor-relevant portions of this particular blog entry - Harvey Organ's - The Daily Gold and Silver Report: Baltic Dry Index and Related Shipping Problems with Greece/Phony Jobs report,1.2 million jobs seekers removed from BLS

Read this, folks; this is where the problem lies - Thanksgiving: the triumph of capitalism over socialism - National Conservative | Examiner.com

Another one here - http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2009/11/g...ving-hoax.html

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Unread 02-04-2012, 03:36 PM   #14
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Get rid of sales taxes and gas taxes which hits the lowest income people the most.
You know what would really hurt the working class and people living in poverty? Poll tax.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 03:49 PM   #15
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Lawmakers in 13 states are attempting to circumvent problems with Washington DC - States consider alternative currencies of gold and silver - Feb. 3, 2012

Learn about it, and don't get left behind.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 06:03 PM   #16
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If they were caught abusing their entitlements, they'll be charged.
Oh you are right. But who will go after them?

Think about how many work for ICE.....not enough.
Think about how many work for Border Patrol....not enough.
And so on down the list .
Entitlement enforcement is way, way down the list.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 06:05 PM   #17
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Oh you are right. But who will go after them?

Think about how many work for ICE.....not enough.
Think about how many work for Border Patrol....not enough.
And so on down the list .
Entitlement enforcement is way, way down the list.
Whichever departments gave them assistance are the ones who go after them.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 07:17 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by rolling7 View Post
Good for you to say that but don't stop there. Go after entitlement abuse also.
Right now there is a ton of news about WS, banks, mortgage companies, etc. abusing the systems and being charged (some even criminally) for the abuse. When will we see charges against the ordinary man who abuses the entitlement programs?
Abusing on entitlement is illegal as always and you could get in trouble with FBI or other agents who take care of entitlement.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 07:43 PM   #19
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That poster upset me as it is true about how the government think the people are stupid! We where told in my state if we voted for the seat belt law our auto insurance rate would go down. Right!! I voted against the law.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 08:15 PM   #20
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That poster upset me as it is true about how the government think the people are stupid! We where told in my state if we voted for the seat belt law our auto insurance rate would go down. Right!! I voted against the law.
Well, regardless on states with seat belt law or without seat belt law, the insurance companies could REFUSE to cover you after car accident without seat belt and it is on their policy.

If you live in NH and decide to driving without seat belt then get into accident then auto insurance won't cover you, even unable to pay to fix your car or send a fat check if car is declared as totaled. You will be BIG LOSS if you don't wear seat belt and it is on insurance policy.

In our state, there is no law on seat belt in back seat but it is required by auto insurance. If you want sit in back seat in my car so please click the seat belt or you will be OUT!
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Unread 02-04-2012, 09:06 PM   #21
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Whichever departments gave them assistance are the ones who go after them.
Oh, you are right. But these offices are not budgeted a police force.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 09:13 PM   #22
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Oh, you are right. But these offices are not budgeted a police force.
You don't need to be budgeted a police force to cut someone off SS or other entitlements.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 09:20 PM   #23
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Oh, you are right. But these offices are not budgeted a police force.
Any office that disburses assistance also has an accountability and compliance unit. I don't understand why there is this big assumption among conservatives that everyone on welfare/foodstamps/SSI/etc is abusing it and scamming the system. The truth is, the vast majority of people on assistance programs are 100% qualified under the rules and depend on it for survival. Most people who scam the system are caught eventually.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 10:24 PM   #24
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Love It!
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Unread 02-04-2012, 10:55 PM   #25
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Any office that disburses assistance also has an accountability and compliance unit. I don't understand why there is this big assumption among conservatives that everyone on welfare/foodstamps/SSI/etc is abusing it and scamming the system. ...
Maybe some conservatives believe that but not all do. That certainly isn't my position.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 11:33 PM   #26
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I have never met anybody who believes that everybody on assistance is abusing it. Nor have I ever read anything making that claim.

Straw men are so much easier to mock than reality.
And photoshopped pictures with made up captions substitute for reasoned arguments.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 11:35 PM   #27
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Any office that disburses assistance also has an accountability and compliance unit. I don't understand why there is this big assumption among conservatives that everyone on welfare/foodstamps/SSI/etc is abusing it and scamming the system. The truth is, the vast majority of people on assistance programs are 100% qualified under the rules and depend on it for survival. Most people who scam the system are caught eventually.
The title of the thread says it all. POTUS wants to raise taxes and keep spending on entitlement programs. How much longer can we taxpayers be expected to hold on?
I don't totally disagree with you that most people on entitlement are qualified but just being qualified under the rules does not equal responsible behavior. Look at the women getting entitlement for their children.....totally qualified under the rules....BUT....five kids and give baby daddys.....and no support from the daddys.
I even know, personally, a deaf man and deaf woman who have eleven kids. Never been married and live separate because she gets a housing allowance and entitlements for the kids. Since she is deaf, no income and has that many kids, she is qualified and untouchable. It is like we all know, it is not illegal to give birth over and over again.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 11:42 PM   #28
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It is also most certainly not only extremely wealthy people who believe raising taxes is bad for the economy. My husband spent 20 years in the Air Force as an enlisted man. We had one kid when he joined. We had seven when he retired. We were often eligible for food stamps (although we did not take them after the first year we were married).
We've been pretty poor before, and we may be again (he just joined the ranks of the unemployed). But we've never see raising taxes as good for the economy.
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Unread 02-05-2012, 12:42 AM   #29
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Maybe some conservatives believe that but not all do. That certainly isn't my position.
I didn't say ALL conservatives believe that, but you can't possibly tell me for a second that there is not an overall negative viewpoint in the conservative circle not just for "entitlement" programs but for the people who survive on them. C'mon. Secondly, the fact that you, personally, don't feel this way does not really mean anything in terms of the argument. I'm very happy to know that you don't feel that way (thank you), but it doesn't change the fact that there are many who do.


Quote:
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I have never met anybody who believes that everybody on assistance is abusing it. Nor have I ever read anything making that claim.

Straw men are so much easier to mock than reality.
And photoshopped pictures with made up captions substitute for reasoned arguments.
Sigh, the denial of implied meaning defense. I think we last went through this a month or two ago. It was a pretty fun time. Just because a person/group/entity/political organization does not come out and specifically say "I FEEL THIS PARTICULAR WAY ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE/PERSON" does not mean their true intent or attitude cannot be deciphered from their words or actions.

But wait! You, personally, have not met anybody or read anything making this claim? Well, that must mean the claim has never been made by anyone! There goes my whole game plan. Drats.

I also find it very ironic that you would accuse me of building a strawman and then imply that I used a photo, which is obviously meant for humorous purposes, as a "reasoned argument." There's certainly truth to the picture and the caption, but as a point of evidence in a debate? c'mon.
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Unread 02-05-2012, 01:26 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by whatdidyousay! View Post
That poster upset me as it is true about how the government think the people are stupid! We where told in my state if we voted for the seat belt law our auto insurance rate would go down. Right!! I voted against the law.
Regardless, seat belts have saved countless lives.
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