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Unread 09-10-2011, 07:45 PM   #1
Audiofuzzy
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The truth about me, Fuzzy...

I am sick and tired of certain people spreading vicious lies about me
to suit their own agenda, making them look like "oh, poor, abused me"
while making me look like some fascist audist while I am NOT.

I was always of an opinion that:

- deaf babies should be allowed to SIGN freely

- parents of deaf children should learn sign language ASAP
- deaf children should be able to learn sign language and speech equally
- deaf babies, children, teens, adults should never ever be denied an access to their natural means of communication which is a SIGN LANGUAGE
- deaf babies, children, teens, adults should be given an equal opportunity to learn speech and written English
- because studies shown without slightest doubt that early CI implantation yields the best results, the deaf babies should be implanted early BUT
these babies should receive an equal access to SIGN LANGUAGE, deaf community and deaf culture at THE SAME TIME.
does that require more work? too bad!
- Ci is a tool only, not an indoctrination. it is like a H-A - just a TOOL.
so, use it as tool, not as a means to mass hysteria.

Now, stop spreading your crazy lies about me already.
Educate yourself about my stance on this before you start insulting me with
your unfounded lies.

Fuzzy
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Unread 09-10-2011, 07:50 PM   #2
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Can you tell me why your posts demonstrate otherwise?
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Unread 09-10-2011, 07:57 PM   #3
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I love your post expect "because studies shown without slightest doubt that early CI implantation yields the best results, the deaf babies should be implanted early." I totally against that. These deaf children need to grow up so they can make a choice. I don't give a **** if early is best chance.
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Unread 09-11-2011, 12:32 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyDeafNinja View Post
I love your post expect "because studies shown without slightest doubt that early CI implantation yields the best results, the deaf babies should be implanted early." I totally against that. These deaf children need to grow up so they can make a choice. I don't give a **** if early is best chance.
You are absolutely right that deaf babies and deaf children need to grow up so they can make choices whether they want to have CIs or hearing aids. CI implantation is only for surgery and why put deaf babies and deaf children have to go through with having surgery. UGH! No one should brainwash the deaf children being ashame of being deaf or hard of hearing just because the hearing society want them to hear sooooo badly. Get a life. We can function better without hearing anyway. Surgery for CI is not a life threatening thing. It is what hearing parents and other AGB people want them to go through surgery. They don't care about the deaf children's needs. So gee.
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Unread 09-11-2011, 12:35 AM   #5
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Thank you for sharing it with me, Fuzzy.


Ok, whatever.
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Unread 09-11-2011, 01:04 AM   #6
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Thank you for sharing that, Fuzzy. From personal experience (and what I've learned from the work earning my Psychology degree has helped), I know how frustrating it can be for people to come to the wrong conclusions about one's views. It's one thing for people to disagree with your views and quite another for someone to get upset with you because of a misunderstanding. I understand that any language can be very tricky (that's why laws are the way they are, they try to make it understandable to the masses and pretty much end up not understandable for anyone). Language in print without cues from facial expressions and body language can easily lead to those misunderstandings. I hope you have better luck in the future getting your views across. While I may not agree with all of your views, I hope that I am able to at least correctly understand what your (and anyone else's) views are.
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Unread 09-11-2011, 01:09 AM   #7
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to AD.
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Unread 09-11-2011, 01:14 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naisho View Post
to AD.
Are you in the wrong introduction thread?

Who are you welcoming to?
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You speak to me on lip..
I don't speak..
I sign with you..
You gesture..
I can't hear you..
You can hear me..
You can see and I can see..
-Smell, Sense, Taste, Feel and See-
Was born with broken ears..
I was not perfect, but I am used to being happy and Deaf..
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Unread 09-11-2011, 09:15 AM   #9
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I'm not sure what happened...all I know is that you should hold your ground with your beliefs...no one is going to be 100% in agreement. Even though I'm Deaf, I believe in things that turn the heads of the deafies...I believe in using cued speech to teach literacy (I get some dirty looks, whoa) and I believe in auditory training...that one gets me in the hot water. The key for me is backing up my beliefs with data when necessary. I'm not a sheep...but if I must be, then let me proudly be a black sheep. Be yourself. If anyone has a problem with it, they can go play with themselves. Of course, report any abusive behavior to the mods...
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Unread 09-11-2011, 04:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
I'm not sure what happened..
Oh it's an old story - certain people tend to twist and misinterpret
what other people say so badly, that an innocent person is being
accused of being something she or he is NOT.

I am continually accused of being audist, while I am NOT.

I choose this forum because it's about Sign Language and Oralism,
the very subjects disputed.

Thank you very much for welcoming me here, for supporting me,
for disagreeing,
and expressing your opinions on this.


Bebonang,
like it or not, the truth is our brain develop the way it develops.

The brain makes the most neural connections between the ages birth-3years, period.
If you want to have the best benefit from CI, is in this period of time.
And later, and the benefit from CI drops dramatically.


They way you say - to heck with how the brains develop, let the kiddies
decide when they are bigger is like saying
I will let my 18 years old decide if she wants to be a ballerina.

Sorry, but after 18 years of not being stretched and worked on
there is hardly any chance her bones, her muscles will ever be as flexible
as if she was training since a little girl.


THAT'S why this is such an immense decision to implant early.
years of auditory inactivity in the brain will never be made up
just as years of not training and stretching for ballet for 18 years.

Fuzzy
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Unread 09-11-2011, 06:23 PM   #11
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Okay. I wonder, does that means it is too late for someone to learn how to speak and hear with CIs or HAs, right? If someone learn how to speak and hear at much early age, then it won't be a problem, right? So, if someone don't learn to speak and hear until much later, it is too late and cannot be learned at all? Am I understand you, right?
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Unread 09-11-2011, 06:44 PM   #12
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Quote:
Okay. I wonder, does that means it is too late for someone to learn how to speak and hear with CIs or HAs, right? If someone learn how to speak and hear at much early age, then it won't be a problem, right? So, if someone don't learn to speak and hear until much later, it is too late and cannot be learned at all? Am I understand you, right?
It means the results wont be as great as they could have been if the implantation was earlier. The later, the less great a results.

An 18 years old will stretch some to the capacity of being, say,
excellent jazz or hip hop dancer but to be a great classic ballerina
like, say, Julie Kent -

.

it's rather unlikely.

And I am of opinion, to undergo such surgery, to decide on such implantation
- then this should be done to receive the best benefits possible,
because, otherwise, what's the point?

And to give a child a CI from my stand point, does NOT exclude
an access to sign language, to deaf community, to deaf culture.
Nope, not from this person.
Quote:
If someone learn how to speak and hear at much early age, then it won't be a problem, right?
If someone already is speaking and hearing at an early age, and pretty well at that,
then yes, then implanting later will help a lot better that person than it would soemone
who was totally deaf at birth and never heard or learned speech.


Fuzzy
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Unread 09-11-2011, 06:53 PM   #13
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No, I don't say anything about sign languages or the Deaf communities. I just asked if it is only work for people with CIs and/or HAs, and their speech & listen skills once they were taught at their early childhood. If they don't get a chance at such younger age, it won't work for learn how to speak and hear. EDIT: That is what I asked.

Why am I asking this? Because, last March, I was told that it is never too late to learn how to speak and hear. It could be anytime...
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Unread 09-11-2011, 07:07 PM   #14
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Wirelessly posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarissaMann05
Okay. I wonder, does that means it is too late for someone to learn how to speak and hear with CIs or HAs, right? If someone learn how to speak and hear at much early age, then it won't be a problem, right? So, if someone don't learn to speak and hear until much later, it is too late and cannot be learned at all? Am I understand you, right?
depends how much later. The outcomes for before 2 are great, before 4 ok. After age 5, things get much more difficult. After age 7, if the child is not already oral it is very unlikely that they will be.
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Unread 09-11-2011, 07:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faire_jour View Post
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depends how much later. The outcomes for before 2 are great, before 4 ok. After age 5, things get much more difficult. After age 7, if the child is not already oral it is very unlikely that they will be.
Completely understood.

Personally, I think it is okay to learn how to speak and hear at any time, even if it won't fully fluent speaker, it is just a worthy try.
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Unread 09-11-2011, 07:10 PM   #16
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Wirelessly posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarissaMann05
No, I don't say anything about sign languages or the Deaf communities. I just asked if it is only work for people with CIs and/or HAs, and their speech & listen skills once they were taught at their early childhood. If they don't get a chance at such younger age, it won't work for learn how to speak and hear. EDIT: That is what I asked.

Why am I asking this? Because, last March, I was told that it is never too late to learn how to speak and hear. It could be anytime...
speak? Sure. Use and understand fluent spoken language through listening? That's totally different.
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Unread 09-11-2011, 07:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faire_jour View Post
Wirelessly posted

speak? Sure. Use and understand fluent spoken language through listening? That's totally different.
I understand what you do mean. I am sure that it will take a lot of practice for Deaf/deaf/HOH adults if they try it someday.
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Unread 09-11-2011, 09:00 PM   #18
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On the other hand......when talking about benifit from implantation etc are we talking about deep profound/auditory nereopathy vs. some speech perception from hearing aids? There is a HUGE difference. I mean I do think that if a baby or toddler has some speech perception with hearing aids, that there's still a window to develop spoken language. Heck.....a lot of kids weren't dx until they were toddlers even when WE were little....Heck, back in the old days when Clarke was booming, kids didn't start school until they were five and they still developed spoken language!
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Unread 09-11-2011, 09:34 PM   #19
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I didn't get my first HA till I was 2 1/2 years old and I didn't speak till I was 3 but now most strangers can understand me.
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Unread 09-11-2011, 09:36 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy View Post
I am sick and tired of certain people spreading vicious lies about me
to suit their own agenda, making them look like "oh, poor, abused me"
while making me look like some fascist audist while I am NOT.

I was always of an opinion that:

- deaf babies should be allowed to SIGN freely

- parents of deaf children should learn sign language ASAP
- deaf children should be able to learn sign language and speech equally
- deaf babies, children, teens, adults should never ever be denied an access to their natural means of communication which is a SIGN LANGUAGE
- deaf babies, children, teens, adults should be given an equal opportunity to learn speech and written English
- because studies shown without slightest doubt that early CI implantation yields the best results, the deaf babies should be implanted early BUT
these babies should receive an equal access to SIGN LANGUAGE, deaf community and deaf culture at THE SAME TIME.
does that require more work? too bad!
- Ci is a tool only, not an indoctrination. it is like a H-A - just a TOOL.
so, use it as tool, not as a means to mass hysteria.

Now, stop spreading your crazy lies about me already.
Educate yourself about my stance on this before you start insulting me with
your unfounded lies.

Fuzzy
If I have said or done anything to upset you, make you feel uncomfortable, make you angry with me, I humbly apologize. That was never my intention. I do not know you well enough to criticize anything you say and/or do.

I know who it is that you speak of, though I can't say anything about them either because for the same reasons, I do not know them well enough either.

I am only here to make sure that I have not done anything ungentleman like, and if I have, apologize for it.

I bid you peace.
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Unread 09-11-2011, 09:43 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deafbajagal View Post
I'm not sure what happened...all I know is that you should hold your ground with your beliefs...no one is going to be 100% in agreement. Even though I'm Deaf, I believe in things that turn the heads of the deafies...I believe in using cued speech to teach literacy (I get some dirty looks, whoa) and I believe in auditory training...that one gets me in the hot water. The key for me is backing up my beliefs with data when necessary. I'm not a sheep...but if I must be, then let me proudly be a black sheep. Be yourself. If anyone has a problem with it, they can go play with themselves. Of course, report any abusive behavior to the mods...

Now a days, one must have the attitude of "this is me. this is who I am. I will forever continue to be me, & if you do not like it, that is your problem not mine".

The Deaf should be this way more than the hearing I believe, for it is the deaf that are pushed, and forced into a life that most of them do not want.
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Unread 09-11-2011, 09:49 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMES09 View Post
If I have said or done anything to upset you, make you feel uncomfortable, make you angry with me, I humbly apologize. That was never my intention. I do not know you well enough to criticize anything you say and/or do.

I know who it is that you speak of, though I can't say anything about them either because for the same reasons, I do not know them well enough either.

I am only here to make sure that I have not done anything ungentleman like, and if I have, apologize for it.

I bid you peace.
Then you are not a Militant.
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You speak to me on lip..
I don't speak..
I sign with you..
You gesture..
I can't hear you..
You can hear me..
You can see and I can see..
-Smell, Sense, Taste, Feel and See-
Was born with broken ears..
I was not perfect, but I am used to being happy and Deaf..
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Unread 09-11-2011, 09:49 PM   #23
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i will observed more review your personal take an time More story I need to aware it important It is very worth reason
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Unread 09-11-2011, 09:55 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faire_jour View Post
Wirelessly posted



depends how much later. The outcomes for before 2 are great, before 4 ok. After age 5, things get much more difficult. After age 7, if the child is not already oral it is very unlikely that they will be.
I grew up hearing & speaking. had excellent hearing. then I got cancer & lost most of my hearing. I am 95% deaf in my right ear & 60% deaf in my left ear. Tho I have the ability to speak, I rarely do any more because people do not understand me when I use my voice; so I use sign language about 98% of the time.
It is easier for me this way & I suspect that the reason why many deaf do not use their voice is for the same reasons....it's easier for them to not speak.

I have no statistics to back this up, no numbers to crunch. This is what I have observed in the last 30 yrs in myself AND with the deaf.
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Unread 09-11-2011, 10:04 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bebonang View Post
Then you are not a Militant.
No Ma'am.

I am not a militant. I'm a lover not a fighter. If there is a peaceful way out of a bad situation, I will find it. I do not like to fight or argue with anyone. That is not my way.

I am a peaceful, caring, type of man & always will be.

Now that does not mean I will be as a rug for people to walk on, no way! I will stand up for what I believe, but not at the cost of my reputation or character. I will often walk away from a fight because I am not a great speaker like many I know that are.
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Unread 09-11-2011, 11:11 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by JAMES09 View Post
No Ma'am.

I am not a militant. I'm a lover not a fighter. If there is a peaceful way out of a bad situation, I will find it. I do not like to fight or argue with anyone. That is not my way.

I am a peaceful, caring, type of man & always will be.

Now that does not mean I will be as a rug for people to walk on, no way! I will stand up for what I believe, but not at the cost of my reputation or character. I will often walk away from a fight because I am not a great speaker like many I know that are.
That is what you have to do when you need to stand up for your right to be heard and let them know how you feel when you can not hear or not be able to understand what hearing people say. You have the right to have accommodations when you need them to help you in the hearing society.

That is what I am trying to do to get my right as a Deaf person and as a Native person. I have two worlds and it is hard on me trying to live by their standards (meaning the white society that want me to be like them all the way through). Geez. I am never be like them ever. That is who I am. If you are still not a militant, then you can decline and never get your right to stand up and face them.
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Gegiibishedjig (Deaf Person)

You speak to me on lip..
I don't speak..
I sign with you..
You gesture..
I can't hear you..
You can hear me..
You can see and I can see..
-Smell, Sense, Taste, Feel and See-
Was born with broken ears..
I was not perfect, but I am used to being happy and Deaf..
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Unread 09-12-2011, 01:39 PM   #27
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Wirelessly posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by deafdyke
On the other hand......when talking about benifit from implantation etc are we talking about deep profound/auditory nereopathy vs. some speech perception from hearing aids? There is a HUGE difference. I mean I do think that if a baby or toddler has some speech perception with hearing aids, that there's still a window to develop spoken language. Heck.....a lot of kids weren't dx until they were toddlers even when WE were little....Heck, back in the old days when Clarke was booming, kids didn't start school until they were five and they still developed spoken language!
you can't have it both ways. You can't say that thousands of deaf kids were failed by oralism twenty years ago, but then advocate for the same methods! If we wait for huge language delays to implant, we end up with kids with huge language delays! You can't on one hand say that it worked just fine and then on the other curse the methods.
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Unread 09-12-2011, 02:01 PM   #28
DeafCaroline
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Originally Posted by faire_jour View Post
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you can't have it both ways. You can't say that thousands of deaf kids were failed by oralism twenty years ago, but then advocate for the same methods! If we wait for huge language delays to implant, we end up with kids with huge language delays! You can't on one hand say that it worked just fine and then on the other curse the methods.
You can support a kid learning to speak and listen but still condemn some of the teaching methods. And if a kid can hear well enough with hearing aids, then yeah, of course they can learn to speak and read.

And yes, oralism 20 years ago meant no ASL, no deaf schools, no contact with the deaf community. That SHOULD be condemned.
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Unread 09-12-2011, 02:01 PM   #29
sallylou
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Please deal directly with the people with whom you have issues. It doesn't help to create drama. If you cannot resolve the conflict with certain people, the ignore feature is your friend. Add me to ignore if you'd like. That's what I'm going to do to avoid the drama.
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Last edited by sallylou; 09-12-2011 at 02:02 PM.
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Unread 09-12-2011, 05:30 PM   #30
Audiofuzzy
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If I have said or done anything to upset you, make you feel uncomfortable, make you angry with me, I humbly apologize. That was never my intention.
I have no beef with you James
No need for an apology - first, in no way you hurt me,
second, from your other posts I can tell you don't know me that well so you couldn't continually mis-interpret me, sweetie,
thus you can't be one of those people I had in mind.
There, it's all resolved


Quote:
Please deal directly with the people with whom you have issues. It doesn't help to create drama. If you cannot resolve the conflict with certain people, the ignore feature is your friend. Add me to ignore if you'd like. That's what I'm going to do to avoid the drama.
I have better idea- I can sense I make you itch. Why don't YOU put me on ignore???

My thread was needed.

There is too many people who keep misleading other people about me
by way of continually twisting my words.
It is impossible to write each one of them and anyway it would be useless and you know why?

Because no matter what I would tell them,
they would twist and misinterpret my words anyway.

No, I had to declare my opinions out in the open, and once and for all
a hard, clear, written proof, impossible to manipulate,

so there would be NO mistake this time around ever again,
like it or not - Sally Lou.

Fuzzy
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A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes' merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble.
Mohandas Gandhi
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