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Unread 08-06-2011, 04:34 AM   #1
Miss-Delectable
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The Audists are coming for you...

I found this in deafread.

Remember this poem by Pastor Martin Niemller. Adolf HItler had him spent 7 years in concentraton camps after speaking out.

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I didnít speak up,
because I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for the sick,
the so-called incurables, I didn't speak up,
because I wasnít mentally ill.


When they came for the Catholics, I didn't
speak up because I was a Protestant.

When they came for me,
there was no-one left to speak out.

This can be you as the audists are coming for you!

Audism spreads while good Deaf people do nothing!
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Unread 08-06-2011, 08:11 AM   #2
drphil
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Valid comparison: "audists" to nazis?
As a DEAF person never have "heard" hearing persons compared to Nazis. Does that comparison seem to apply to "persons one's knows"?

Different worlds?

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Unread 08-06-2011, 08:17 AM   #3
dogmom
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Miss D, I recall these words - I had this on a postcard on the outside of my dorm room door.

I think if we consider the eugenic ideas and policies of person AGB, then we can certainly make the comparison.
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Unread 08-06-2011, 12:55 PM   #4
drphil
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The idea of "eugenics" predate Alexander Graham Bell's group by many years.

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Unread 08-06-2011, 07:28 PM   #5
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I love it MissD! Everyone needs to speak out. I have no patience with those who simply tolerate it because they don't see it as having a direct impact on their little life.
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Unread 08-06-2011, 10:26 PM   #6
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The "Audism spreads while good Deaf people do nothing!" quote is now one of my favorite quotes!
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Unread 08-07-2011, 12:42 AM   #7
Buffalo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drphil View Post
Valid comparison: "audists" to nazis?
As a DEAF person never have "heard" hearing persons compared to Nazis. Does that comparison seem to apply to "persons one's knows"?

Different worlds?

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Are you saying that you don't see how audists are like nazis??
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Unread 08-07-2011, 09:33 AM   #8
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What do you think-an exercise in Sociology: culture? Opinions: "dogmatic truths"?

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Unread 08-07-2011, 09:48 AM   #9
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Wirelessly posted

you think it is a valiad comparison? A parent who chooses a cochlear implant and spoken language for their child because they believe it will provide more opportunities than ASL would...is a NAZI?

an audiologist who programs CIs and hearing aides because he thinks he is improving people's lives....a NAZI?

a teacher of the deaf who works with little children, teaching them spoken language because she wants them to be able to live their life without "being tied to an interpreter". Who spends her time and energy and personal money on learning games and toys and keeping up to date with all the research and pours her whole heart into working with those kids....a NAZI?

really? There is a difference between disagreeing and being a NAZI...come on. It is incredibly disrespectful to the horror of the holocaust and the people who lost their lives to throw that word around.

Last edited by faire_jour; 08-07-2011 at 09:51 AM.
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Unread 08-07-2011, 10:19 AM   #10
Beowulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss-Delectable View Post
I found this in deafread.

Remember this poem by Pastor Martin Niemller. Adolf HItler had him spent 7 years in concentraton camps after speaking out.

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I didnít speak up,
because I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for the sick,
the so-called incurables, I didn't speak up,
because I wasnít mentally ill.


When they came for the Catholics, I didn't
speak up because I was a Protestant.

When they came for me,
there was no-one left to speak out.

This can be you as the audists are coming for you!

Audism spreads while good Deaf people do nothing!
Quote:
Originally Posted by faire_jour View Post
Wirelessly posted

you think it is a valiad comparison? A parent who chooses a cochlear implant and spoken language for their child because they believe it will provide more opportunities than ASL would...is a NAZI?

an audiologist who programs CIs and hearing aides because he thinks he is improving people's lives....a NAZI?

a teacher of the deaf who works with little children, teaching them spoken language because she wants them to be able to live their life without "being tied to an interpreter". Who spends her time and energy and personal money on learning games and toys and keeping up to date with all the research and pours her whole heart into working with those kids....a NAZI?

really? There is a difference between disagreeing and being a NAZI...come on. It is incredibly disrespectful to the horror of the holocaust and the people who lost their lives to throw that word around.
What would you have us do? Remain silent? The first post was written by a Holocaust survivor.
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Unread 08-07-2011, 10:51 AM   #11
dogmom
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THIS: "I think if we consider the eugenic ideas and policies of person AGB, then we can certainly make the comparison"

from my earlier post-


not about parents, audi.'s, as a group and no personal sentiment in it.
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Unread 08-07-2011, 11:11 AM   #12
deafskeptic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogmom View Post
THIS: "I think if we consider the eugenic ideas and policies of person AGB, then we can certainly make the comparison"

from my earlier post-


not about parents, audi.'s, as a group and no personal sentiment in it.
Exactly.
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Unread 08-07-2011, 11:44 AM   #13
jillio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faire_jour View Post
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you think it is a valiad comparison? A parent who chooses a cochlear implant and spoken language for their child because they believe it will provide more opportunities than ASL would...is a NAZI?

an audiologist who programs CIs and hearing aides because he thinks he is improving people's lives....a NAZI?

a teacher of the deaf who works with little children, teaching them spoken language because she wants them to be able to live their life without "being tied to an interpreter". Who spends her time and energy and personal money on learning games and toys and keeping up to date with all the research and pours her whole heart into working with those kids....a NAZI?

really? There is a difference between disagreeing and being a NAZI...come on. It is incredibly disrespectful to the horror of the holocaust and the people who lost their lives to throw that word around.
Yeah. Just like the audi that pushes a CI so someone won't "fall into" Deaf culture. You live in a make believe world.
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Unread 08-07-2011, 11:45 AM   #14
jillio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogmom View Post
THIS: "I think if we consider the eugenic ideas and policies of person AGB, then we can certainly make the comparison"

from my earlier post-


not about parents, audi.'s, as a group and no personal sentiment in it.
Of course the comparison can be made. Only those without the ability to think fluidly, or those that are far too defensive regarding the decisions they have made, fail to see the connections.

AGBell most certainly promoted eugenics by recommending that the deaf not be permitted to propogate. And it was all based on a very faulty theory of genetic transmissions. His organization continues to strive for the eradication of the signing deaf with policies based on just as faulty of theories regarding the deaf.
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Unread 08-08-2011, 08:17 AM   #15
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"Fluid thinking" is that effected by swimming? Helps to organize one's thinking while multitasking swimming. Recommend it to everyone.

Off to another bout - intensive fluid thinking-" what is for supper?" while swimming. Important!

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Unread 08-08-2011, 08:54 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beowulf View Post
What would you have us do? Remain silent? The first post was written by a Holocaust survivor.
I am pretty sure he didn't write the last two lines.

I do think it is in poor taste if deaf people DID tell others that they identify with those who are jailed, tortured, killed, and so on. Example: saying that audism/hearing people who are for CIs are practically the same as the Nazis/Nazi propaganda.

However, that is NOT what the OP is saying. This first post has a good underlying message, which is simply: Speak out.
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Unread 08-08-2011, 09:18 AM   #17
jillio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drphil View Post
"Fluid thinking" is that effected by swimming? Helps to organize one's thinking while multitasking swimming. Recommend it to everyone.

Off to another bout - intensive fluid thinking-" what is for supper?" while swimming. Important!

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If it was affected by swimming, you should have developed the ability by now, given all the time you devote to deaf swimming. Since you show no evidence of the ability, however, I think it is safe to say that swimming does not affect it at all.
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Unread 08-08-2011, 09:19 AM   #18
jillio
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I am pretty sure he didn't write the last two lines.

I do think it is in poor taste if deaf people DID tell others that they identify with those who are jailed, tortured, killed, and so on. Example: saying that audism/hearing people who are for CIs are practically the same as the Nazis/Nazi propaganda.

However, that is NOT what the OP is saying. This first post has a good underlying message, which is simply: Speak out.
Audism really has nothing to do with CIs.
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Unread 08-08-2011, 09:34 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by jillio View Post
Audism really has nothing to do with CIs.
Gawd... fine!

Let me rephrase: I do think it is in poor taste if deaf people DID tell others that they identify with those who are jailed, tortured, killed, and so on. Example: saying that audism/audists are practically the same as the Nazis/Nazi propaganda.
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Unread 08-08-2011, 09:48 AM   #20
jillio
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Originally Posted by Daredevel7 View Post
Gawd... fine!

Let me rephrase: I do think it is in poor taste if deaf people DID tell others that they identify with those who are jailed, tortured, killed, and so on. Example: saying that audism/audists are practically the same as the Nazis/Nazi propaganda.
It is a comparison to the same mind set, not a comparison to the actual activities. I actually had relatives die in the ovens, and I don't find the comparison offensive at all. In fact, I use it. A Jewish boss I had made the comparison on his own in a discussion of audism many years ago. Viktor Frankl, a survivor of several concentration camps, has used his experience with such to make connections to many different experiences in life.
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Unread 08-08-2011, 10:11 AM   #21
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It is a comparison to the same mind set, not a comparison to the actual activities. I actually had relatives die in the ovens, and I don't find the comparison offensive at all. In fact, I use it. A Jewish boss I had made the comparison on his own in a discussion of audism many years ago. Viktor Frankl, a survivor of several concentration camps, has used his experience with such to make connections to many different experiences in life.
So you DO make the comparison of Audism to Nazi propaganda?

To me, Nazi propaganda is the belief that certain races and types of people were bad for humanity and it's best to eliminate them completely.

To me, audism is the misguided notion that it's better for deaf people to become like hearing people. Audism elicits pity for deaf people. Audism believes that deaf people would be better off with their lives if they could hear.

Not quite the same to me. Now I understand where the similarity lies between audism and nazi-crap, which is simply: the belief of the majority (or even just a group) forces their beliefs on others and makes others CHANGE for the sake of their beliefs.

However.. this applies to almost every single individual who is engaged in a debate, especially a political debate. Everyone is forced to follow current policies of the country. So in a political debate, you are arguing your beliefs on how the government should be run, therefore, dictate how things should operate. (Yes, technically, they can leave the country, but it's very hard to do that for numerous reasons. )
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Unread 08-08-2011, 10:16 AM   #22
jillio
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So you DO make the comparison of Audism to Nazi propaganda?

To me, Nazi propaganda is the belief that certain races and types of people were bad for humanity and it's best to eliminate them completely.

To me, audism is the misguided notion that it's better for deaf people to become like hearing people. Audism elicits pity for deaf people. Audism believes that deaf people would be better off with their lives if they could hear.

Not quite the same to me. Now I understand where the similarity lies between audism and nazi-crap, which is simply: the belief of the majority (or even just a group) forces their beliefs on others and makes others CHANGE for the sake of their beliefs.

However.. this applies to almost every single individual who is engaged in a debate, especially a political debate. Everyone is forced to follow current policies of the country. So in a political debate, you are arguing your beliefs on how the government should be run, therefore, dictate how things should operate. (Yes, technically, they can leave the country, but it's very hard to do that for numerous reasons. )
The intention of Nazi propoganda was to marginalize, and dispose of if possible, a group of people that another group considered inferior. The intention of Audist propoganda is to marginalize, and get rid of of possible, a group of people that another group considers inferior. Those are the comparisons.

Nazi propoganda arose from the mindset that one group had the ability to determine the worth and viability of another group. Audism has, at it fundamental core, the belief that one group has the ability to determine the worth and viability of another group.

Nazi propganda was very up front and out there. Much easier to recognize the enemy. Audism is much more subtle. Not as easy to recognize. But still, there are valid sociological comparisons.
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Unread 08-08-2011, 10:18 AM   #23
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But the same can be for how I perceive the Tea party, I consider them "inferior" and I want to get rid of them from the political scene and those notions because I believe they are wrong.

Nazi comparison?
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Unread 08-08-2011, 02:25 PM   #24
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So deaf parents who implant their deaf children are audists?
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Unread 08-08-2011, 02:30 PM   #25
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Saying that deaf people shouldn't reproduce suggests genocide. And I've heard people say this.
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Unread 08-08-2011, 04:10 PM   #26
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But the same can be for how I perceive the Tea party, I consider them "inferior" and I want to get rid of them from the political scene and those notions because I believe they are wrong.

Nazi comparison?
Are you actively working to do that?
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Unread 08-08-2011, 04:10 PM   #27
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Saying that deaf people shouldn't reproduce suggests genocide. And I've heard people say this.
A.G.Bell wrote it down.
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Unread 08-08-2011, 04:11 PM   #28
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So deaf parents who implant their deaf children are audists?
Where did that come from? Implantation has little to do with audism. Audism was prevalent before CIs were even thought of.
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Unread 08-08-2011, 04:16 PM   #29
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Are you actively working to do that?
Sure! I tell people how bad they are.
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Unread 08-08-2011, 04:18 PM   #30
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Sure! I tell people how bad they are.
Well, I do, too, but that doesn't really count!
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