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Unread 01-23-2010, 12:04 AM   #1
Belinda Dill
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Deaf and mute

How do you like those terms, deaf and mute person?
those bother me because hearing people think deaf and mute are stupid or dumb.
i dont like this words. it is like another slang word. sorry if you disagree.
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Unread 01-23-2010, 12:28 AM   #2
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well deaf isn't really a slang word. I know "mute" isn't a well liked word tho. I'm not exactly sure why but I have heard from other people that it isn't the correct term to say for someone that doesn't speak.
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Unread 01-23-2010, 05:14 AM   #3
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I did educate one of my co worker when my co worker said,"mute person wanted to see you,". I said, " you mean this person is hearing and cant talk?". my co worker said, "no this person can't hear". I said, " oh so you mean this person is deaf. Ok. let you know most deaf people can speak, so mute is an old fashion word that dont use anymore." My co worker said, " oh I am so sorry i didnt know. "
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Unread 01-23-2010, 10:05 AM   #4
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I'd rather see Deaf and Mute than Deaf and Dumb any day
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Unread 01-23-2010, 10:21 AM   #5
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Both terms are misleading not to mention insulting. Deafness doesn't make someone mute or dumb.
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Unread 01-23-2010, 10:38 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by CJB View Post
Both terms are misleading not to mention insulting. Deafness doesn't make someone mute or dumb.
That's untrue. Deafness can have muteness as a feature. There are plenty of deaf/mute people still.

You could say aphasic if the term mute bothers you.

But the point is, these people absolutely definitely exist.
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Unread 01-23-2010, 10:41 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Bottesini View Post
That's untrue. Deafness can have muteness as a feature. There are plenty of deaf/mute people still.

You could say aphasic if the term mute bothers you.

But the point is, these people absolutely definitely exist.
It can happen but doesn't always happen. Deaf-mute implies that as a rule Deaf people can't talk.

Aphasic would be even more misleading because that would imply deafness inherently impairs the ability to form language, which it doesn't. Lack of exposure to language does, not deafness.
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Unread 01-23-2010, 10:52 AM   #8
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I would say most of us would be Deaf and selectively mute if you really want to get specific lol. I can talk - I just don't most of the time. I am not really insulted when I am called "Deaf mute" which happens quite often in medical situations but that is really the only place. I am more annoyed by their lack of knowledge. They aren't really doing it intentionally and once corrected they learn. If a person were to call me a Deaf mute with intensions of insulting me then I would be insulted.
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Unread 01-23-2010, 10:53 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJB View Post
It can happen but doesn't always happen. Deaf-mute implies that as a rule Deaf people can't talk.

Aphasic would be even more misleading because that would imply deafness inherently impairs the ability to form language, which it doesn't. Lack of exposure to language does, not deafness.
THink what you are saying. Does Deaf/blind mean both conditions always exist together?

I don't think you would argue that. It is ridiculous. and it is the same as your first sentence above, except using a different second condition.
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Unread 01-23-2010, 11:02 AM   #10
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I'm late deafened, but not mute. One of my ex-bosses was a really nasty man. One day, someone called me on the job, and my boss told him "she's deaf and mute", you can't talk to her", and hung up.

The next day, I asked my friend why he did not call to let me know the news (something important), and he told me what my boss had said. I was enranged!....I confronted my boss about it, and he replied, "well, I didn't know you could hear on the phone."! I said, "I can't, but whenever someone calls for me, someone takes a message for me." And "I'm deaf, but I'm not mute, as I'm standing before you telling you this". His face was "RED".....

All employees were allowed 3 minutes on the phone. Very seldom did I get a phone call! And my boss made me feel as if I was not entitled to a phone call.

The same boss told a gay man that was hired...."If you would stop taking it in the rear, you would be alright." And he quit working there!

I've no qualms with the word "mute". If I was mute, that means I can't talk. But for some people to "think" that a deaf/mute person is the same as "dumb"....that raises the hair on my head! And I'm quick to defend that. I've met some really "hearing and dumb" people in my life. And they have all their facilities, no reason for them to be dumb!
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Unread 01-23-2010, 12:49 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Bottesini View Post
THink what you are saying. Does Deaf/blind mean both conditions always exist together?

I don't think you would argue that. It is ridiculous. and it is the same as your first sentence above, except using a different second condition.
I don't think it's the same.

Terms like deaf-mute lead people to thinking that just cause someone can speak means they can hear. It leads people to thinking that just because someone can't hear they can't speak. Deafness can occur independent of the ability or inability to speak. Deafblindness by definition includes both hearing and vision loss. Someone who is only deaf/hard of hearing or only blind/low vision is not considered deafblind. So why would someone who is only deaf/hard of hearing and not mute be considered deaf-mute?
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Unread 01-23-2010, 01:06 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by CJB View Post
I don't think it's the same.

Terms like deaf-mute lead people to thinking that just cause someone can speak means they can hear. It leads people to thinking that just because someone can't hear they can't speak. Deafness can occur independent of the ability or inability to speak. Deafblindness by definition includes both hearing and vision loss. Someone who is only deaf/hard of hearing or only blind/low vision is not considered deafblind. So why would someone who is only deaf/hard of hearing and not mute be considered deaf-mute?
I understand you are a blind person who is coincidentally losing hearing.

THat is a very odd last statement as no one suggested it.

Study a little deaf history. DId you know that Deaf schools used to have classrooms for the "aphasic" as it was considered more politically correct?
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Unread 01-23-2010, 01:40 PM   #13
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Back in the day when those two terms, "mute/dumb" were used, they meant not able to speak.
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Unread 01-23-2010, 01:47 PM   #14
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If one is going to use terms, I prefer deaf-mute than deaf and dumb.
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Unread 01-23-2010, 03:38 PM   #15
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If one is going to use terms, I prefer deaf-mute than deaf and dumb.
I understand that. I prefer just Deaf above all.
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Unread 01-23-2010, 06:47 PM   #16
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I guess I never really thought about it and I have seen it a lot in the news. At least our local news, when reporting on a deaf or hard of hearing person, and it is relative to the story, will mention either deaf or hard of hearing. We did have one instance where the words were exactly this: "Brianna **??**, who is deaf and also a mute, meaning she is unable to speak, has been missing for the afternoon." Someone obviously educated our local TV stations.
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Unread 01-23-2010, 07:02 PM   #17
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Defination of mute: "Refraining from producing speech or vocal sound."

If a deaf person can scream, is that deaf person mute?

Another defination of mute from the same link: thefreedictionary.com

"Often Offensive One who is incapable of speech." Bingo! it is often offensive.
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Unread 01-23-2010, 07:11 PM   #18
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Quote:
You could say aphasic if the term mute bothers you.
Botte, small correction. Aphasic is related to spoken language brain damage (like from a stroke)
I think the word you're looking for was apraXic. You can have apraxia and be dhh (some hoh folks have poor oral skills) and you can also be apraxic on its own (some people with CP use ASL due to apraxia)
I have to say I do think that there should be a more up to date causal term for a Deaf person who isn't orally skilled. Nonverbal isn't good, since it's pretty much been preempted by the autistic and cognitively affected crowd.
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Unread 01-23-2010, 07:15 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by deafdyke View Post
Botte, small correction. Aphasic is related to spoken language brain damage (like from a stroke)
I think the word you're looking for was apraXic. You can have apraxia and be dhh (some hoh folks have poor oral skills) and you can also be apraxic on its own (some people with CP use ASL due to apraxia)
I have to say I do think that there should be a more up to date causal term for a Deaf person who isn't orally skilled. Nonverbal isn't good, since it's pretty much been preempted by the autistic and cognitively affected crowd.
I wonder why deaf educators had specific "aphasic" classrooms, for children who did not develop speech? It did not mean brain damage in that context, they just thought is nicer that saying mute.

Oh yeah, I am autistic spectrum and verbal too.

Do you ever research or just talk?
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Unread 01-23-2010, 07:50 PM   #20
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Quote:
I wonder why deaf educators had specific "aphasic" classrooms, for children who did not develop speech? It did not mean brain damage in that context, they just thought is nicer that saying mute.

Oh yeah, I am autistic spectrum and verbal too.
Look here for the difference.
Apraxia of Speech
Aphasia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Actually maybe back then the general term was aphasia. Now that I think of it, that does kind of sound familiar, the usage of that term for kids with spoken language disorders back in the '60's/70's) Medical terminlogy has changed you know. For example back in the old days autism was classfied as either childhood onset psychosis or childhood onset schizeophernia.
I wasn't implying that autistic people can't speak. Where the hell did you get that? All I said is that
Quote:
Nonverbal isn't good, since it's pretty much been preempted by the autistic and cognitively affected crowd.
Being nonverbal if you're classic autistic is quite common. It's NOT universal (and there are a lot of high functioning autistic folks /Asperger's who can speak quite well) However, it's common enough that there's a HUGE therapy industry for autistic people who don't speak.
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Unread 01-23-2010, 08:52 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deafdyke View Post
Being nonverbal if you're classic autistic is quite common. It's NOT universal (and there are a lot of high functioning autistic folks /Asperger's who can speak quite well) However, it's common enough that there's a HUGE therapy industry for autistic people who don't speak.
"a classic autistic". What exactly is a classic autistic? I was unaware I am an autistic? What is an autistic anyway? I don't think a determiner such as "a" can been added infront of the word autisic since there is no one autism. There are people who have autism, but last time I checked there weren't people who were an autistic, classic or not.

If you mean a person who has Kenner type (disintegrative) Autism, many of us who have this kind develop speech normally until we are a few years old and then as the inability to process sensory information gets worse a "regression" happens and we struggle to produce speech. There are many of us with Kenner type autism who can speak and speak well.

It is really frustrating me that you are such an "expert" on everything.
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Unread 01-23-2010, 08:55 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by JennyB View Post
"a classic autistic". What exactly is a classic autistic? I was unaware an autistic? What is an autistic anyway? I don't think a determiner such as "a" can been added infront of the word autisic since there is no one autism. There are people who have autism, but last time I checked there weren't people who were an autistic, classic or not.

If you mean a person who has Kenner type (disintegrative) Autism, many of us who have this kind develop speech normally until we are a few years old and then as the inability to process sensory information gets worse a "regression" happens and we struggle to produce speech. There are many of us with Kenner type autism who can speak and speak well.

It is really frustrating me that you are such an "expert" on everything.
x2.
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Unread 01-23-2010, 09:05 PM   #23
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Just plain Deaf and Mute meaning the Deaf would like to use ASL and not wanting to produce speaking the language. Dumb is very offensive. I was deaf and mute until I started to wear my hearing aid (left ear) and started to learn how to talk at 8 years old. I was forced to do this. So I guess I did not have a choice if I do not want to wear hearing aid and not want to speak. My voice was funny and has a deaf accent. Go figure!
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Unread 01-23-2010, 09:16 PM   #24
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"a classic autistic". What exactly is a classic autistic? I was unaware I am an autistic? What is an autistic anyway? I don't think a determiner such as "a" can been added infront of the word autisic since there is no one autism. There are people who have autism, but last time I checked there weren't people who were an autistic, classic or not.

If you mean a person who has Kenner type (disintegrative) Autism, many of us who have this kind develop speech normally until we are a few years old and then as the inability to process sensory information gets worse a "regression" happens and we struggle to produce speech. There are many of us with Kenner type autism who can speak and speak well.

It is really frustrating me that you are such an "expert" on everything.


I was misdiagnose as autistic by the doctor in Chicago. The doctor or maybe even other doctors with him thought I could not placed the words for objects. When someone dropped the tray on the floor very close to me, I responded to it by feeling the vibration but the hearing person thought I could hear. Hmmf. That is why they thought I was hearing because I never took a hearing test at all. Years later I went to the Minnesota University Hospital and the doctor there gave me the hearing test and found that I have been deaf all my life. Weird doctors in Chicago. They need to go back to the medical school and start over, but now they are old and already gone. Good grief. Misdiagnosed happen to every Deaf or HOH people when they went to see the doctors. Autistic happen to many Deaf and HOH people like that for misdiagnose.
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Unread 01-24-2010, 02:59 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Bebonang View Post
Just plain Deaf and Mute meaning the Deaf would like to use ASL and not wanting to produce speaking the language. Dumb is very offensive. I was deaf and mute until I started to wear my hearing aid (left ear) and started to learn how to talk at 8 years old. I was forced to do this. So I guess I did not have a choice if I do not want to wear hearing aid and not want to speak. My voice was funny and has a deaf accent. Go figure!
Way back then, dumb and mute meant the same thing. The sign for that would be on the lips, not the forehead.
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Unread 01-24-2010, 11:23 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Bottesini View Post
I understand you are a blind person who is coincidentally losing hearing.

THat is a very odd last statement as no one suggested it.

Study a little deaf history. DId you know that Deaf schools used to have classrooms for the "aphasic" as it was considered more politically correct?
I didn't know that. I'd consider "aphasic" an inaccurate description because aphasia is a language disorder in the brain, not on the tongue. Deaf aphasics have just as hard a time producing signs as their hearing counterparts do producing spoken word.

Deaf-mute excludes people who are being deaf but being able to speak. I know mute can describe a choice not to use voice just as much as a physiological inability to, but many Deaf people do choose to use their voice anywhere from a bit to all the time.

I'd say none of the groups we're discussing are aphasics. If a non-verbal person can produce language in writing, they're still using the language facility in their brain.
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Unread 01-24-2010, 02:03 PM   #27
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I didn't know that. I'd consider "aphasic" an inaccurate description because aphasia is a language disorder in the brain, not on the tongue. Deaf aphasics have just as hard a time producing signs as their hearing counterparts do producing spoken word.

Deaf-mute excludes people who are being deaf but being able to speak. I know mute can describe a choice not to use voice just as much as a physiological inability to, but many Deaf people do choose to use their voice anywhere from a bit to all the time.

I'd say none of the groups we're discussing are aphasics. If a non-verbal person can produce language in writing, they're still using the language facility in their brain.
I merely told you how there were classrooms, titled "aphasic"

Jenny tried to explain too.

Since you obviously have no interest in how deaf history went, I will cease attempting to educate or communicate with you.
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Unread 01-24-2010, 05:32 PM   #28
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I merely told you how there were classrooms, titled "aphasic"

Jenny tried to explain too.

Since you obviously have no interest in how deaf history went, I will cease attempting to educate or communicate with you.
And I merely said I think that's a misnomer. Of course I have interest in Deaf history.

I tried to PM you (cause I don't want to totally derail the thread) but you don't receive PM's so I just want to say:

I put a lot of effort into trying not to be offended by many of the things you say because you seem to always bite my head off or snap back at whatever I say. I try to take things you say the best way possible and reply based on that. I'd appreciate if you made the same effort.

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Unread 01-24-2010, 07:11 PM   #29
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Quote:
It is really frustrating me that you are such an "expert" on everything.
I don't claim to be an expert on everything. I think you just took my comment the wrong way. Maybe I could have used a better term. What I meant is the population of autistic adults and kids who aren't verbally skilled. I was trying to differentate that popultion from the more high functioning autistic (eg Asperger's) population. That's all. I'm sorry I said anything.
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Unread 01-25-2010, 06:13 AM   #30
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This thread turned to be a fantastic place for discussing and sharing opinions.

I'v recently read a couple of papers about this subject.
I also think all the time about the labels and words I use to define things/ppl.
In response in a website about deaf culture, to a Dr. who wrote about wich term is apropriate, I said, and quote myelf-
Quote:
Con todo respeto, leer sobre cómo los investigadores llamaban a los sordos
hace 500 años, me es totalmente irrelevante. Es como leer en cada sitio que
encuentro sobre astrofísica, que antes de Copérnico los ACADEMICOS EXPERTOS
Y ESTUDIOSOS creían y ENSEÑABAN el geocentrismo. Acaso cada vez que quiero
aprender sobre el sistema solar y el heliocentrismo, tengo que leer sobre
una TEORIA OBSOLETA (ver en Wikipedia "Teoría científicamente obsoleta)"? No
creo. De hecho, no es así. Nadie habla ya de eso.
Entiéndase desde ya que no hay por que dejar de hablar de cómo se le llamaba
antes a la persona usuaria nativa de la LS (mudo, sordomudo, sordo) Pero, es
relevante hoy? No es relevante, en mi opinión.
Localmente, no utilizo la seña para SORDO-MUDO (mano haciendo un cuatro, con
los dedos juntos, tocando el oído y luego la boca, o, como se dijo, tocando
el oído y la boca con el dedo índice) Solo uso la de sordo, que es la seña
de NO-HABER en la zona de la oreja.
Quote:
With all due respect, reading about how researchers called the deaf 500 years ago, it's totally irrelevant to me. It's like reading on every website I find about astrophisics, that a long time ago, before Copernico, EXPERTS AND ACADEMICS believed and TAUGHT geocentrism. It's the case that every time I want to learn about the solar system and heliocentrism do I have to read about an OBSOLETE THEORY? (pls note Obsolete scientific theories on Wikipedia) I don't think so. In fact, its not like that. No one speaks about that anymore.
Let me say that im not implying that we shouldnt discuss how a native user of SL used to be called (deaf, deafmute, mute) But, it's relevant today? It is not, in my opinion.
Locally, I don't use the sign for DEAF-MUTE (hand in four shape, with fingers together, touching the ear and then the mouth, or, like it was said, touching the ear and then the mouth with the index finger) I just use the the DEAF sign, wich is THERE-IS-NO in the ear area (note on the translation: the glose is transliteration)
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