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Unread 09-27-2009, 09:17 PM   #1
pagedancer
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Manualism vs. Oralism Research

Hey there,
As some here know, I'm a graduate student studying Deaf Education and my research paper this semester is centered around different means of communication. I'm exploring Manualism vs. Oralism and was curious if anyone could offer some resources for either method. Also, I'd love to have people's opinions or tales of experiences if you are willing to share. No pressure at all. Any assistance offered is amazingly appreciated.

Thanks!
Jared
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Unread 09-27-2009, 09:43 PM   #2
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I was born HOH so I experienced the oral approach. Oral only does more damage then good in my view.

I think all deaf people should be exposed to sign language, and speech therapy if they want it but it shouldn't be done instead of signing and it shouldn't be done excessively.
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Unread 09-27-2009, 09:44 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pagedancer View Post
Hey there,
As some here know, I'm a graduate student studying Deaf Education and my research paper this semester is centered around different means of communication. I'm exploring Manualism vs. Oralism and was curious if anyone could offer some resources for either method. Also, I'd love to have people's opinions or tales of experiences if you are willing to share. No pressure at all. Any assistance offered is amazingly appreciated.

Thanks!
Jared
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Unread 09-27-2009, 10:48 PM   #4
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I am all for Bi-Bi education. I see the value of good English usage. I want ASL used in class because I don't want the students to miss one word. If a student can speak, good. If a student can't speak, fine and don't make the student feel a failure just because he/she can't speak. I value education so I really hate oralism because it would cause students to miss or misunderstood something. I have been to an oral school and otherwise so I know it first-handed.

Many hearing people think that the ability to speak is more important than the education. Many Deaf people see it the other way around. I have learned to speak in spite of my deafness but my family don't know sign language. They still don't try to learn ASL even though they know that I have eye problem and that I could lose my central vision eventually. That is why I see those hearing people are very short-sighted and maybe selfish.
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Unread 09-27-2009, 10:55 PM   #5
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I value Bi-Bi education over oralism because the oralist philosophy in deaf education puts too many deaf children at a disadvantage over their hearing peers due to the lack of full acess to language and information at the educational setting. Even if the child can speak clearly, there is still the issue of receptive language and that's where ASL becomes vital.

I am not a strong believer nor advocate for oral-only deaf education. I have seen too many children end up with language delays and deficits from this philosophy. Too many...
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Unread 09-27-2009, 11:28 PM   #6
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Pagedancer, Shel90 is a teacher for the deaf in Maryland and she often tells us that students get transferred to her school from other schools because they are getting behind.

Putting deaf kids in a school that espouses oralism is like putting hearing kids in a school where no voices are allowed and no signs are allowed and the parents aren't allowed to use their voices either. Would the hearing kids get good marks in school??? Nope.
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Unread 09-28-2009, 02:50 AM   #7
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Dividing into oralism and manualism is a good idea to get an idea of main controversies, but I still feel those terms are a bit limited. Those two terms does not say much about method, as oralism can be anything from auditory verbal therapy to cued speech, and manualism can be SEE instructions or real/fake bi-bi.

I would say oralism and manualism more is about politics, and less methods. Oralism is shunned by many deaf people, but people who label themselves as either manualists or oralists are often hearing people who know "best", and lack the skill to listen to deaf people themselves, from what I have seen. The whole oralism vs. manualism would die in one sec if deaf people, oral or fluent in ASL, was allowed to run the debate, that's my hypothesis.
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Unread 09-28-2009, 05:49 PM   #8
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To be honest. I do like both of them manual and oral in equality. It's balance both of them. How about hearing people use ASL and speak as an oral?? That's make big difference.

I can't remember if I had learn BI BI education at deaf school. I might be forget or remember about BI-BI. It was long times ago!
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Unread 09-28-2009, 09:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bottesini View Post
http://www.alldeaf.com/introduce-you...ead-first.html

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My apologies! I had read that originally and completely forgot before I posted this. Again, any interview-y information offered is more than welcome and greatly appreciated. My focus of the post, though, is more geared towards research materials if anyone has suggestions for books or articles that handle this debate. Thank you, Bottlesini, for pointing out my error and I hope I didn't offend any of the moderators with my post. I will be more vigilant with such things in the future. I really enjoy being here and I don't want to do anything to jeopardize my membership.

Thanks to everyone who has responded!
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Unread 09-29-2009, 08:03 PM   #10
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I support a full toolbox approach for everyone. Oral skills are good.......but even a lot of "oral sucesses" have signifient social emotional issues.
Also, oral skills don't capitalize on the fact that visual processing is a strengh for many if not all dhh kids.
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Unread 09-30-2009, 10:54 AM   #11
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Check out this thread on the subject http://www.alldeaf.com/sign-language...m-oralism.html Hopefully you will find some helpful discussion there.

Here is another http://www.alldeaf.com/sign-language...n-oralism.html

And another http://www.alldeaf.com/sign-language...al-social.html
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Unread 09-30-2009, 02:35 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pagedancer View Post
Hey there,
As some here know, I'm a graduate student studying Deaf Education and my research paper this semester is centered around different means of communication. I'm exploring Manualism vs. Oralism and was curious if anyone could offer some resources for either method. Also, I'd love to have people's opinions or tales of experiences if you are willing to share. No pressure at all. Any assistance offered is amazingly appreciated.

Thanks!
Jared
Hello Jared - There is much "out" there to analyze and experience if/when the opportunity presents itself and one is ready.

I would recommend to you the following:

1. Communicating with Deaf Children - Tom Bertling (if you google his name he has written quite a few books. Some individuals would consider them controversial, but certainly worth exploring, imo.

2.The Cued Speech Resource Book for Parents of Deaf Children - R. Orin Cornett, Ph.D. & Mary Elsie Daisey, M.Ed.

3. Cued Speech and Cued Language for Deaf and Hard of Hearing Children - due to be released March 2010 ( might be too late for you...) , but an excellent resource.

4. website: National Cued Speech Association and Cued Speech Discovery Home Page - There are several links to information and personal experiences.

Enjoy!
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Unread 09-30-2009, 06:02 PM   #13
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When you are gathering your information, be certain to gather from both sides of the discussion. Using websites of one organization with an agenda is hardly considered generalizable to the deaf population. Your best source is the deaf community itself.
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Unread 10-01-2009, 04:45 AM   #14
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Hello Jared - There is much "out" there to analyze and experience if/when the opportunity presents itself and one is ready.

I would recommend to you the following:

1. Communicating with Deaf Children - Tom Bertling (if you google his name he has written quite a few books. Some individuals would consider them controversial, but certainly worth exploring, imo.

2.The Cued Speech Resource Book for Parents of Deaf Children - R. Orin Cornett, Ph.D. & Mary Elsie Daisey, M.Ed.

3. Cued Speech and Cued Language for Deaf and Hard of Hearing Children - due to be released March 2010 ( might be too late for you...) , but an excellent resource.

4. website: National Cued Speech Association and Cued Speech Discovery Home Page - There are several links to information and personal experiences.

Enjoy!
/\
|
Perfect case of a hearing oralist, taking a side in this old oralist vs manualist debate, spanning over centuries, between hearing "professonials". Strongly recommend to read the stuff above for case studies. Good luck
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Unread 10-01-2009, 08:48 PM   #15
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When you are gathering your information, be certain to gather from both sides of the discussion. Using websites of one organization with an agenda is hardly considered generalizable to the deaf population. Your best source is the deaf community itself.
Amen!
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Unread 10-01-2009, 11:14 PM   #16
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I am late deaf but I like watching such vlogs as this one on youtube relating to oralism.... This is a strong viewpoint and not necessarily my own. Since AGBell's advocate was already here, it wouldn't hurt to see or read an opposite viewpoint, hmm?


Here is the meaning provided by the vlogger:

Someone asked me if I were against oralists when I know s/he must have meant oralism because to be against oralists just because they can speak is outrageous! So my response to this modified question is, yes, I am against oralism but not spoken English. Let me share you that the term oralism to me is a stigma. It is associated "to force" for some even "abuse" (i.e. hands whacked with rulers, put hand down (watch this):


although physical abuse is prohibited but still, this term brings back these memories that many are scarred with the term oralism.

Oralism is way different from spoken English. Oralism tends to be the only approach and it bans from ASL. Spoken English is not against for one to know both languages since birth. It has no biased meaning -- it is just a language. Signed English doesn't ban a Deaf child from using ASL nor force those who cannot hear enough to use it. Some people who think the world of oralism are ignorant. Using the word, oralism, still did not change to a positive concept just we would never change the concept of slavery. Would we want to still practice slavery? No! Unfortuantely, it is still happening in some parts of the world. Slavery will always be negative just like oralism therefore there is no way to change the meaning. They should now that there were horrors associated to oralism. Although it is history but today the practice, the principle and the philosophy still discriminate against ASL. The term should be changed to oracy since it involves the use of switching to both languages where they have the options to use, spoken or signed where there is a more flexibility and compatibility.


In my video clip, you will see my description on how Flemish Deaf view oralism definition vs. Deaf culture definition.

That's why I don't accept and approve the concept of oralism because of the attitude. The concept is negative so that is something to think about how should we view oralism.
From my experience, I was able to grow up using spoken English and ASL. Did I ever think that I think of myself as a oralist? No. I am just a spoken English user so it is completely different than being oralist. I use spoken English, yes. I am ASL user, yes! Oralists don't! It is just a different view about the way I grow up as I never thought one has to separate those from using ASL. They had to use oralism as one approach method and it is not necessary.
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Unread 10-01-2009, 11:31 PM   #17
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I am late deaf but I like watching such vlogs as this one on youtube relating to oralism.... This is a strong viewpoint and not necessarily my own. Since AGBell's advocate was already here, it wouldn't hurt to see or read an opposite viewpoint, hmm?

YouTube - I Am Against Oralism Because...

Here is the meaning provided by the vlogger:

Someone asked me if I were against oralists when I know s/he must have meant oralism because to be against oralists just because they can speak is outrageous! So my response to this modified question is, yes, I am against oralism but not spoken English. Let me share you that the term oralism to me is a stigma. It is associated "to force" for some even "abuse" (i.e. hands whacked with rulers, put hand down (watch this):


although physical abuse is prohibited but still, this term brings back these memories that many are scarred with the term oralism.

Oralism is way different from spoken English. Oralism tends to be the only approach and it bans from ASL. Spoken English is not against for one to know both languages since birth. It has no biased meaning -- it is just a language. Signed English doesn't ban a Deaf child from using ASL nor force those who cannot hear enough to use it. Some people who think the world of oralism are ignorant. Using the word, oralism, still did not change to a positive concept just we would never change the concept of slavery. Would we want to still practice slavery? No! Unfortuantely, it is still happening in some parts of the world. Slavery will always be negative just like oralism therefore there is no way to change the meaning. They should now that there were horrors associated to oralism. Although it is history but today the practice, the principle and the philosophy still discriminate against ASL. The term should be changed to oracy since it involves the use of switching to both languages where they have the options to use, spoken or signed where there is a more flexibility and compatibility.


In my video clip, you will see my description on how Flemish Deaf view oralism definition vs. Deaf culture definition.

That's why I don't accept and approve the concept of oralism because of the attitude. The concept is negative so that is something to think about how should we view oralism.
From my experience, I was able to grow up using spoken English and ASL. Did I ever think that I think of myself as a oralist? No. I am just a spoken English user so it is completely different than being oralist. I use spoken English, yes. I am ASL user, yes! Oralists don't! It is just a different view about the way I grow up as I never thought one has to separate those from using ASL. They had to use oralism as one approach method and it is not necessary.
Thanks very much for that transcription.
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Unread 10-01-2009, 11:37 PM   #18
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A day when deaf people and their language are completely accepted -- no, more than that, truly welcomed -- as a part of the family of man, in which god created diversity not to oppress the minority who are different, but to enrich the lives of all.
-- Laurent Clerc
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Unread 10-01-2009, 11:38 PM   #19
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Dreama, how did you know that I was thinking of you? You are most welcome.
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Unread 10-02-2009, 04:58 PM   #20
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A day when deaf people and their language are completely accepted -- no, more than that, truly welcomed -- as a part of the family of man, in which god created diversity not to oppress the minority who are different, but to enrich the lives of all.
-- Laurent Clerc
Where did you find that quote? The more I learn about Laurent Clerc, the more I like this guy.
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Unread 10-02-2009, 05:08 PM   #21
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Where did you find that quote? The more I learn about Laurent Clerc, the more I like this guy.
Me too. That's a really good quote.
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Unread 10-02-2009, 05:11 PM   #22
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Oh man! I wish the freaking audists would accept that quote!!!
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Unread 10-02-2009, 09:19 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by pagedancer View Post
Hey there,
As some here know, I'm a graduate student studying Deaf Education and my research paper this semester is centered around different means of communication. I'm exploring Manualism vs. Oralism and was curious if anyone could offer some resources for either method. Also, I'd love to have people's opinions or tales of experiences if you are willing to share. No pressure at all. Any assistance offered is amazingly appreciated.

Thanks!
Jared

loml mentioned Tom Bertling's books. "A child sacrificed to Deaf Culture" is his account of his own personal experiences and an interesting and different perspective then is usually presented.

Good luck
Rick
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Unread 10-03-2009, 03:18 AM   #24
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Are you studying to become a teacher for the deaf?
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Unread 10-03-2009, 03:22 AM   #25
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loml mentioned Tom Bertling's books. "A child sacrificed to Deaf Culture" is his account of his own personal experiences and an interesting and different perspective then is usually presented.

Good luck
Rick
Excactly what pagedancer is looking for, the most hardcore hearing oralist on internet forums, recommending the all time classic and beloved horror book of the oralist, the BERTLING nightmare

You can't get closer to oralism than this, lol.
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Unread 10-03-2009, 03:55 AM   #26
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Excactly what pagedancer is looking for, the most hardcore hearing oralist on internet forums, recommending the all time classic and beloved horror book of the oralist, the BERTLING nightmare

You can't get closer to oralism than this, lol.
Sacrificing to the Deaf culture? Sounds like someone was skinned alive for the sake of Deaf culture. How frightening!
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Unread 10-03-2009, 05:14 AM   #27
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"Sacrificing to Deaf Culture"

Nice undertone on something that is akin to British imperialist paternalism....
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Unread 10-03-2009, 08:01 AM   #28
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Better Hearing Blog - Hearing Loss Doesn't Equal Hearing Function <----criticizing someone because they respect the deaf culture
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Unread 10-03-2009, 08:37 AM   #29
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Excactly what pagedancer is looking for, the most hardcore hearing oralist on internet forums, recommending the all time classic and beloved horror book of the oralist, the BERTLING nightmare

You can't get closer to oralism than this, lol.
What pagedancer is looking for is for information and resources. What Bertling's book gives her/him is but one perspective whether or not one agrees with it is irrelevent. For a different extreme perspective, Harlan Lane comes to mind.

However, your attack upon me, which is incorrect, is but another example for him/her to see the extremes which certain people, like yourself, will resort to when presented with views that differ from their own.

Sorry pagedancer but what flippy is incapable of understanding and/or accepting is that because one chooses to raise their child orally it does not make one an oralist. He can't seem to accept our personal decision for our child and for some strange reason takes it as a personal rebuke of him. What he repeatedly chooses to ignore is that I have stated many, many times that decision we made for our child is not one that we would recommend or advocate for other children, and in fact never have.


Rick
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Unread 10-03-2009, 12:04 PM   #30
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Where did you find that quote? The more I learn about Laurent Clerc, the more I like this guy.
He was amazing.
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