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Unread 08-02-2009, 10:18 PM   #1
Royale
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Attention: Deaf canadians!

Last week the CRTC has issued a press note about Broadcasting and Telecom Regulatory Policy CRTC 2009-430 and there are a couple of real important notes about IP Relay Service and VRS.

Broadcasting and Telecom Regulatory Policy CRTC 2009-430

Since it is a very long press note, I have copied and pasted two sections about IP Relay and VRS below:

Quote:
IP Relay
15. In all relay calls, the relay operator is an intermediary between the caller and the intended recipient of the call who transmits messages back and forth. In a TTY relay call, the relay operator transmits messages via TTY-based text conversation with a person with a hearing or speech disability and via voice conversation with a person without such a disability.
16. In an IP Relay call, the relay operator transmits messages via Internet Protocol (IP)-based text conversation with a person with a hearing or speech disability and via voice conversation with a person without such a disability. The person with a hearing or speech disability communicates using text with the relay operator via the Internet and accesses the IP Relay service through the IP Relay provider's Web page or an Instant Messaging application using IP-based text messaging supported on a web-enabled device (mobile wireless phone, smartphone, web-capable telephone, etc.).5
17. From the perspective of a relay service user with a hearing or speech disability, IP Relay is a logical evolution of TTY Relay. Both TTY Relay and IP Relay are text-to-voice relay services; however, IP Relay is not subject to the same technological limitations as TTY Relay. IP Relay enables faster communication between the user with a disability and the relay operator (including calls to 9-1-1). IP Relay enables users to make relay calls using a web-capable device where there is Internet access. IP Relay allows users to see significantly more of the conversation on their computer screens than they can see with a TTY liquid crystal display (LCD) window. IP Relay allows users to print out and save conversations. IP Relay users can initiate multiple calls simultaneously and make conference calls. In light of the above, the Commission considers that the provision of IP Relay would provide significant benefit to TTY Relay users.
18. Based on the record of this proceeding, the Commission finds that it is technically feasible for TSPs to provide IP Relay. The Commission also notes that TTY Relay costs have decreased since the TTY Relay service rates were last adjusted. The record shows that, on average, between the years 2004 and 2008, the ILECs collectively collected 6 $28.5 million per year and collectively spent $11.7 million per year to provide TTY Relay. During that period, the amount collected to provide TTY Relay has exceeded the amount required to provide it by an average of $16.8 million per year. The Commission finds that the recent excess in the rates collected to provide TTY Relay provides the funding to support the introduction and operation of IP Relay as an adjunct to TTY Relay via the same revenue stream.7
19. Accordingly, the Commission finds it appropriate to require the provision of IP Relay.
20. The Commission further finds it appropriate to continue to require the provision of TTY Relay to meet the specific needs of certain Canadians - particularly those who are DeafBlind, those without Internet access and those who access relay services using payphones.

Implementation of IP Relay

21. The Commission directs all LECs, including wireless CLECs, and VoIP providers that are required to provide TTY Relay to provide IP Relay, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, by 21 July 2010. As with TTY Relay, TSPs may meet the obligation to provide IP Relay by providing the service directly or by outsourcing the provision of the service to a third-party. Further, by 21 July 2010, all references to "message relay service" in the existing relay service requirements set out in previous Commission decisions shall be read to include both TTY Relay and IP Relay.
22. By 21 April 2010 the ILECs are to file revised proposed relay service tariffs. The Commission does not expect the proposed tariffs to include rate increases.
23. The Commission considers that its power under section 24 of the Telecommunications Act to impose conditions on the offering and provision of telecommunications services on Canadian carriers is an appropriate means to impose requirements with respect to IP Relay. The Commission requires Canadian carriers, as a condition of the provision of service, to include in their contracts with resellers, a condition that resellers of local exchange services comply with the same obligations imposed on Canadian carriers.

Video Relay

24. Unlike TTY Relay or IP Relay, Video Relay enables communication with a relay operator using sign language. As such, Video Relay provides significant benefit to those persons with hearing and speech disabilities who communicate via sign language (e.g. American Sign Language (ASL) or Langue des signes québécoise (LSQ)).
25. The Commission considers that the record of this proceeding is insufficient to determine whether TSPs should be required to provide Video Relay. In particular, the record did not establish critical information such as the costs of providing this service, the size of the individual ASL or LSQ Video Relay user markets, or projected use. The record does indicate that the costs of providing a Video Relay service would be high, considering the need for high bandwidth and highly-skilled language interpretation in two sign languages.
26. Therefore, the Commission considers that further investigation into this matter is necessary to acquire accurate information pertaining to cost, user market size and projected use of this service. The Commission intends to assess whether a follow-up proceeding on Video Relay is warranted three years from the date of this Regulatory Policy. The Commission considers that information resulting from the Video Relay initiatives (trials) approved in Telecom Decision 2008-1 is vital to determining whether such a follow-up proceeding is warranted. Therefore, the Commission reiterates its determination that Bell Canada and TELUS Communications Company are to implement the initiatives by the date set out in that Decision (31 December 2011).8 The Commission considers that this timeframe will also allow for actual information pertaining to the use, cost and rates of IP Relay and TTY Relay (information that would be relevant to such a proceeding) to become available.
27. The Commission notes that any TSP may choose to provide Video Relay, on a regional or national basis, subject to Commission approval of a Video Relay tariff.
It means we will not have our VRS in place until at least winter 2012.

I am going to contact my friends in CAD, CCSD and other organizations to see if they can push the CRTC hard and aggressively to have ILECs implemented VRS as soon as 2010 or 2011.

CAD and CCSD has had a partnership in VRS called Sign Relay Canada (SRC) and they did apply for a license to run VRS. The CRTC had no choice but rejected their license because of their stupid and ridiculous policy which states that the ILECs get first opportunity to get a license to run any kind of service. I know for a fact that the SRC is already ready to run the VRS but they are stuck with the CRTC decision on awarding licenses to the ILECs.
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Unread 08-02-2009, 10:21 PM   #2
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Oh... wow.

May I have your permission to blog the siplet you have posted on the forum?
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Unread 08-02-2009, 10:29 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by souggy View Post
Oh... wow.

May I have your permission to blog the siplet you have posted on the forum?
Be my guest.

You might know Henry Vlug, a Deaf lawyer in Vancouver. He went to the CRTC hearing and proceedings so maybe you can ask him for more information. I believe he is one of the best sources that you can contact.
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Unread 08-02-2009, 10:38 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Royale View Post
Be my guest.

You might know Henry Vlug, a Deaf lawyer in Vancouver. He went to the CRTC hearing and proceedings so maybe you can ask him for more information. I believe he is one of the best sources that you can contact.
Merci. Unfortunately, I don't know him since I have fell out of being in contact with the Deaf community. Thanks for the heads up though.

It seems like the CRTC is not aware of how many deaf people out there that want this technology.
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Last edited by souggy; 08-02-2009 at 11:13 PM. Reason: Inverted letters
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Unread 08-02-2009, 10:53 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by souggy View Post
Merci. Unfortunately, I don't know him since I have fell out of being in contact with the Deaf community. Thanks for the heads up though.

It seems like the CTRC is not aware of how many deaf people out there that want this technology.
Ah it is okay.

Jim Roots of the CAD told me that the CRTC has been not enough aware of or ignorant of our needs and rights so they need to be educated amd understood.
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Unread 08-18-2009, 12:40 PM   #6
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Does this mean, in Canada, we're unable to connect to a relay operator via VoIP at the meantime? I've recently upgraded to VoIP and I'm currently looking for a solution/workaround to use the TTY-to-Voice service.
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Unread 08-18-2009, 12:55 PM   #7
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I'm not impressed with CRTC. What a bunch of moronic bureaucrats.
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Unread 08-24-2009, 10:55 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banjo View Post
I'm not impressed with CRTC. What a bunch of moronic bureaucrats.
I cannot agree with you more.

Here's a press statement from Canadian Association of the Deaf.

» News & » Canadian Association of the Deaf
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Unread 10-11-2010, 10:17 AM   #9
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The above press statement from CAD is "unavailable"- error.

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Unread 10-19-2010, 10:07 PM   #10
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Canadian Association of the Deaf - CRTC
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Unread 10-21-2010, 08:43 AM   #11
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Now corrected.

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Unread 10-31-2010, 12:01 PM   #12
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I heard that Telus is starting a test of IP relay - Rogers and Bell ???
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Unread 10-31-2010, 01:47 PM   #13
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Bell doesn't to the best of my knowledge-no info with Bell phone bills which I receive every month as a Bell customer>

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Unread 10-31-2010, 05:35 PM   #14
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Really Canada is very correct I need to information to me Thank! P.S I need to research find more Canadian IP Hope be tell me
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Unread 11-01-2010, 12:03 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by drphil View Post
Bell doesn't to the best of my knowledge-no info with Bell phone bills which I receive every month as a Bell customer>

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It's highly unlikely it would be "advertised" in your bill etc.

Rogers new IP Relay service (which is actaully IM Relay so far but WILL be IP relay soon) wasn't advertised to any of their current customers (I am one, as are many others I know...none of whom received any notification from Rogers in any format at all.

My mum is a Telus client and she's received NO information regarding Telus's IP Relay service.

And previously as an MTS customer no one ever received any updates regarding relay service changes (other than if the 711 service fee changed)

Most of the time these things are NOT advertised at all ... they send an email out to places like CAD, and local organizations for the Deaf as well as 711 operators but that's basically it ... and you'll NEVER see anything on TV as an advert for the new IP Relay service
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Unread 11-01-2010, 12:59 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anij View Post
It's highly unlikely it would be "advertised" in your bill etc.

Rogers new IP Relay service (which is actaully IM Relay so far but WILL be IP relay soon) wasn't advertised to any of their current customers (I am one, as are many others I know...none of whom received any notification from Rogers in any format at all.

My mum is a Telus client and she's received NO information regarding Telus's IP Relay service.

And previously as an MTS customer no one ever received any updates regarding relay service changes (other than if the 711 service fee changed)

Most of the time these things are NOT advertised at all ... they send an email out to places like CAD, and local organizations for the Deaf as well as 711 operators but that's basically it ... and you'll NEVER see anything on TV as an advert for the new IP Relay service

Really Cad is very serious, I believe telus charge service 711 change new policy now!! that is why I think so July start new change rule!
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Unread 11-01-2010, 01:52 AM   #17
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GOOD NEWS!!!! for IP-Relay (not VRS)

Hello everyone.. I think I found some information about IP-Relay.

I hope anyone can read all pdf, doc and zip and see if they can agree with me what I was comment below. I hope I am not misunderstanding.
2008-06-10 - #: 8665-C12-200807943 - Unresolved issues related to the accessibility of telecommunications and broadcasting services to persons with disabilities

I am not sure if I am read right but I don't want give you high hope but I need someone to confirm it (I hope CAD, CHS or other Deaf organization can confirm it)

Right now.. Telus is provide the IP-Relay for Telus (Alberta and BC).
I found that Telus will provide the IP-Relay to Cogeco and Rogers and SaskTel (I suspect around December 2010.

I read Bell Canada (Quebec/Ontario) it doesn't said if it will have own IP-...Relay or use Telus IP Relay.

The reason why Rogers, Shaw, MTS (Manitoba), SaskTel, Cogeco could not set up their own IP-Relay in manner time. So They will use Telus IP-Relay for now as contract.

Right now, I am customer of Cogeco (Ontario) and I am using Cogeco Relay Service (they are under contracted with Telus Relay Service for TTY 711) but Cogeco have not start for IP-Relay with Telus.. not yet.

I will contact Cogeco see if they have IP-Relay ready.. if yes, maybe they will give me access number (it is only for my own personal account). That mean you will have to get your own access number. Maybe Cogeco will give me for Telus access number. Because I read PDF Telus will provide to Cogeco and Rogers... maybe SaskTel, maybe MTS (Manitoba) and maybe (Bell Canada, Bell Aviant)

Good News!!!


also
Chris Newman
IP Relay Client

you can access Telus IP Relay.. It is only for Telus customer who pay to Telis Bill for Phone and Internet.. I am not sure which required both or one of them..

How do you know if you can access.. you will need special access number, they will give you if you are allow (depend where you live)

You must have access number.. you need to have Telus Customer with bill pay that you are use Relay Service then you will get Access number.

But I could not find any Telus Video Relay Service. I think it is secret website address because it is trial and it is limit number to involved trial. If you involved.. I am sure they will give you website address or software program to download.

That's all I know... I am not sure what detail or how it work.

Many Thanks
Chris Newman

I got my Facebook! thank
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Unread 11-01-2010, 08:22 AM   #18
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Thanks Chris for all the info. It just seems odd to me that carriers wouldn't advise their services re: IP et al. They does seem to advertise a great deal about their various new services- at least here in Toronto.

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Unread 11-01-2010, 11:48 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drphil View Post
Thanks Chris for all the info. It just seems odd to me that carriers wouldn't advise their services re: IP et al. They does seem to advertise a great deal about their various new services- at least here in Toronto.

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Mainly it's because of cost - and because if they were to make a TV ad re the "new IP relay" the service would get SWARMED by hearing people who do not need the service, but either:
A) "Just want to try it to see what it's about
B) people who want to use the "anonymity" the service provides to prank/scam etc people/businesses etc.

It's the same reason that in the USA IP Relay, IM Relay and VRS are rarely if every advertised on TV - and if they are they are advertised more as a PSA (like the one's for CC etc during DAW) than the company doing a "commercial" for the product (in this can IP Relay).


Think about it - when was the last time you EVER saw a commercial or "Ad" for TTY Relay service - on TV, on the Radio, in a a publication etc ... never. In fact even on your phone bill "711" isn't explained, it's just listed as "711 Relay service" or at most a blurb saying something like "771 - TTY relay service for the Hard for hearing, Deaf and Speech Impaired"
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Unread 11-03-2010, 09:15 AM   #20
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Anij: I just checked my CURRENT Bell Canada phone bill-there is NO listing for TTY service. There is a listing for 911 emergency service access-0.18 per month.

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Unread 11-03-2010, 09:31 AM   #21
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thank you so much information to know me !!
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Unread 11-03-2010, 03:38 PM   #22
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Your welcome-any time Cheers Bill

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Unread 11-03-2010, 11:25 PM   #23
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Anij: I just checked my CURRENT Bell Canada phone bill-there is NO listing for TTY service. There is a listing for 911 emergency service access-0.18 per month.

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Exactly! - I'm guessing that you thought that if you looked at the bill you'd find an explanation or at least statement about 711/Relay since it's a service that they offer??

One would think/hope that phone companies etc WOULD mention/advertise/explain things like Relay Services - the univerally DON'T.

Relay Services, be they "traditional" (using a TTY) or more "technologically advanced" versions (ie IM relay, IP relay, Video Relay etc) simply aren't "advertised" at all by the providers!!

At most there will be a few word explanation for the 25¢ - 50¢ (or whatever it is) Relay Fee (sometimes simply called "711 fee" - which most people mis read at "911" not "711)


Personally - I think that if phone/media companies did a better more public job of explaining both on their monthly statements, and on the TV/internet etc WHAT "Relay Services" are to the "general public" there would be a lot fewer problems with individuals and many businesses either hanging up on, or being frustrated with relay calls.
("Hang ups" are much less common with VCO calls ... I haven't been hung up when using VCO, however I have been hung up using "traditional" (ie:I type, not talk) TTY Relay (from the same company) - simply because the didn't understand what was happening and thought it was a "joke"/"prank" etc - not because they were being discriminatory etc)


I guess the bottom line is ... Whenever a new relay service, communication service for the Hoh/Deaf/SI DOES come out from Bell (or is available in your area and available / accessible to you) - it's almost 100% guaranteed that you will NOT see or hear ANYTHING about it - from the company providing it, or any other "official source" that you'd expect to hear/see it from ... instead, you'll more than likely find out about it on a site like this, through and email from CHS or some other "non-official, word of mouth source".

Weird isn't it
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Unread 11-04-2010, 08:55 AM   #24
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Anij: The reason TTY doesn't show up on my phone bill- I am NOT paying for the service specifically. Just part of the "monthly service-residence line" which everyone who uses Bell pay. Not sure about other companies-MTS?
Whether the "rollout" of IP etc will cost one specifically- no idea- at the present time. I assume "some additional cost will be associated".-how much? In due course-this will be known.

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Unread 11-05-2010, 07:59 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drphil View Post
Anij: The reason TTY doesn't show up on my phone bill- I am NOT paying for the service specifically. Just part of the "monthly service-residence line" which everyone who uses Bell pay. Not sure about other companies-MTS?
Whether the "rollout" of IP etc will cost one specifically- no idea- at the present time. I assume "some additional cost will be associated".-how much? In due course-this will be known.

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You've misunderstood.

In North America, part of everyone's landline phone bill cost (regardless of specific provider) is both a 911 "emergency fee" as well as a 711/Relay fee. Many phone companies write these both out on the bill for their clients to be able to see, while some companies (like Bell, apparently) do NOT separate the "billing" out to show 711/Relay as a month fee on everyone's bill (the cost si typically the same as the 911 fee). My point was that regardless of if a company does have a separate "711/relay" line with the cost on the bill, or not - universally they never actaully EXPLAIN what "711/relay" IS. Because none of the currently available 711 services are ever actually explained to any clients on any of their bills - it's logical to state that any upcoming or new Relay services will NOT be "explained" to customers on their bill either ... it's just not how it's done (I've had phone service with a number of providers, none have ever detailed out what 711 is, or their services for TTY/Relay users etc on the bill.)
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Unread 11-06-2010, 09:06 AM   #26
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Anij: Bell Canada DID send an insert explaining BCRS. I have a copy which explains how the Relay service works which started in 1987. It says the cost of $0.13 a month was added to everyone's phone bill. It is April 1. 1996. Yeah- I got my TTY in January 1996 that is why I still have it as part of all the info on using my TTY. The number then was 1 800 346-7531 using TTY1 800 771-6179. Not secret to me or CHS assistive devices section-Toronto.
I also have Bell Call Answer Quick Reference Guide which is now call Telemessage service which I continue to access via the Relay service-to this day.
As I have noted before I am a Bell Canada customer. Yeah this computer is "hooked into" Bell lines-at NO additional cost. ( My computer son did this-a long time ago.) No reason to change-at the present time.

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Unread 11-06-2010, 10:17 AM   #27
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Wirelessly posted

The TTY is a dinosaur in the Deaf Community, imho. You will see pagers, VP and internet [FB, AIM/MSN and/or email] being used in place of the TTY. The only places that still carries the TTY interestingly enough are the governmental buildings, jails, hospitals and courthouses. The only reason they still must have this is that they can ID you using caller ID.
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Unread 11-06-2010, 12:45 PM   #28
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As for "TTY being a dinosaur in the Deaf Community"-irrelevant to me. Still use. I assume TTY will be around as long as phones are in service. Yeah, I am aware one can send Emails from their computer.

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