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Unread 04-15-2009, 03:43 PM   #1
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Grammar

In ASL is there a specific pattern you are supposed to follow? if so what?
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Unread 04-15-2009, 03:47 PM   #2
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Sentence structure

English : subject -verb- object

ASL: object-subject-verb
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Unread 04-15-2009, 03:49 PM   #3
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English order=Subject-Verb-Object

ASL order=Object-Subject-Verb

Ocean blue beat me!!
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Unread 04-15-2009, 03:52 PM   #4
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k, thank you. I keep getting so confused with the order.
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Unread 04-15-2009, 03:53 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bottesini View Post
English order=Subject-Verb-Object

ASL order=Object-Subject-Verb

Ocean blue beat me!!
In asl-speak would that be: "Me, Oceanblue beat?"
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Unread 04-15-2009, 03:55 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by society's_child View Post
In asl-speak would that be: "Me, Oceanblue beat?"
Very good
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Unread 04-15-2009, 09:12 PM   #7
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why is it backward anyway? Why can't they put it in the order of English?
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Unread 04-15-2009, 09:14 PM   #8
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why is it backward anyway? Why can't they put it in the order of English?
If it was in order of English, It would not be made for ASL.

ASL is heavily enforced on verbs and subjects.
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Unread 04-15-2009, 09:24 PM   #9
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why is it backward anyway? Why can't they put it in the order of English?
Because that would be considered English word order (or SEE) which is not ASL.
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Unread 04-15-2009, 09:26 PM   #10
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why is it backward anyway? Why can't they put it in the order of English?
Because a visual language makes more sense the way ASL is ordered.
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Unread 04-15-2009, 10:10 PM   #11
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Quote:
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why is it backward anyway? Why can't they put it in the order of English?
Because it isn't English. English is an auditory based language, and follows a linear syntax because that is they way the brain processes auditory stimuli. Visual stimuli is processed in a spatial and time oriented progression, therefore the syntax of ASL is adapted to cater to the way the brain processes visual information.

Yeah, what Bott said.
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Unread 04-15-2009, 10:12 PM   #12
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Because it isn't English. English is an auditory based language, and follows a linear syntax because that is they way the brain processes auditory stimuli. Visual stimuli is processed in a spatial and time oriented progression, therefore the syntax of ASL is adapted to cater to the way the brain processes visual information.

Yeah, what Bott said.
Holy cow!! You said it so much fancier!! That is what a PhD will do for you!!
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Unread 04-16-2009, 06:09 AM   #13
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Quote:
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Because it isn't English. English is an auditory based language, and follows a linear syntax because that is they way the brain processes auditory stimuli. Visual stimuli is processed in a spatial and time oriented progression, therefore the syntax of ASL is adapted to cater to the way the brain processes visual information.

Yeah, what Bott said.
In other words: The brain processes visual information with two pieces of information: space and time.

Space describes where. For example, my computer is on my desk. The desk is on the floor in a house.

Time describes when. For example, it is 7:10 am now.
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Unread 04-16-2009, 07:59 AM   #14
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Because that would be considered English word order (or SEE) which is not ASL.
SEE sucks.

Sorry, just couldn't hold that in.
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Unread 04-16-2009, 08:11 AM   #15
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SEE sucks.

Sorry, just couldn't hold that in.
I prefer PSE myself, but that's only because SEE takes too d*mn long to sign.
It's just like the difference between Grade I and Grade II Braille. Grade I is spelled out while Grade II is not. Reading Grade I Braille is a pain in the
you-know-where.
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Unread 04-16-2009, 08:24 AM   #16
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I prefer PSE myself, but that's only because SEE takes too d*mn long to sign.
Exactly. SEE is way too stinkin complicated. Not in terms of difficulty,but in terms of saying what you want to say in the most simple terms (after all, why use 12 signs when you can use 6?). Just looking at SEE makes my eyes tired.

I'll admit that I mostly use alot PSE myself but only because I'm still new to asl (been learning a little over 2 years now). Hopefully, I will use ASL more proficiently in the future as I make progress.
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Unread 04-16-2009, 09:24 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by society's_child View Post
Exactly. SEE is way too stinkin complicated. Not in terms of difficulty,but in terms of saying what you want to say in the most simple terms (after all, why use 12 signs when you can use 6?). Just looking at SEE makes my eyes tired.

I'll admit that I mostly use alot PSE myself but only because I'm still new to asl (been learning a little over 2 years now). Hopefully, I will use ASL more proficiently in the future as I make progress.
I enjoy using ASL myself, but I think the only reason I prefer PSE is because English is my first language. PSE makes more sense to me although my comprehension of ASL is as high as 95%.

When I started learning ASL, it literally gave me a headache because all my brain wanted to do is convert the grammatical structure of ASL into English. Now it's second nature and is something I no longer think about.
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Unread 04-16-2009, 09:29 AM   #18
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Holy cow!! You said it so much fancier!! That is what a PhD will do for you!!
I think jillio's ablity to write simply got educated out of her.
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Unread 04-16-2009, 09:30 AM   #19
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I think jillio's ablity to write simply got educated out of her.
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Unread 04-16-2009, 11:00 AM   #20
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I think jillio's ablity to write simply got educated out of her.
You may be right...but even as a kid, people would tell me, "Say it in 10 words or less."
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Unread 04-16-2009, 11:02 AM   #21
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As far as ASL grammar is concerned, though, there is no one rule that will explain ASL grammar completely. Just as there is no one rule that will explain English grammar, or Spanish grammar, or LSF competely. Language is just not that simple.
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Unread 04-16-2009, 11:06 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bottesini View Post
English order=Subject-Verb-Object

ASL order=Object-Subject-Verb

Ocean blue beat me!!
you drown?
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Unread 04-16-2009, 12:29 PM   #23
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you drown?
No? !

(figured out it is a play on words from Oceanblue)
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Last edited by Bottesini; 04-16-2009 at 12:36 PM. Reason: Got the joke!
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Unread 04-16-2009, 01:11 PM   #24
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Quote:
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You may be right...but even as a kid, people would tell me, "Say it in 10 words or less."
My high school resource teachers used to say the same thing to me.
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Unread 04-16-2009, 03:36 PM   #25
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so could i get a few more sentence examples using asl grammar?
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Unread 04-16-2009, 03:50 PM   #26
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so could i get a few more sentence examples using asl grammar?
Example, please? Grammar ASL correct.
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Unread 04-16-2009, 03:57 PM   #27
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The average brain processes immediately an important word, subject or topic, and can "fill in" what may follow. For example, in English, I could say "I'm going to the store. Do you need anything?"

However, in ASL, I would sign that as "store, going" (and point to myself). The ASL end-user sees "store" and immediately knows "store" is the focal point of this sentence, and can start to process what may follow - whether it may be whether that person is going to be asked if he/she wants to go with, or is going to be asked if he/she needs anything. Ultimately, it makes communication that much faster.
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Unread 04-16-2009, 04:01 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthouse77 View Post
why is it backward anyway? Why can't they put it in the order of English?
correct me if I'm wrong - ASL is a very visual language therefore you must think visually in a spatial sense. I do have a trouble myself with this as well. I'm currently thinking ASL in a PSE sense but I try to keep this in mind -

You need to paint the picture first to create the context for others. first think of an object and then talk about it by describing more and more about it as you go. It's similar to french structure in a crude sense - Object-Subject-Verb. ASL = a visual language... meaning describe as much as you can. details details details!!

for ie:
That man <pointing at him or imaginary space that you created that represents the man you're talking about>. (if you know his name, fingerspell it)
white skin. short hair. thin mustache. blue jacket.
<point at him or imaginary space> he deaf. very nice!

hope that somewhat helps.....
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Unread 04-16-2009, 04:05 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiro View Post
You need to paint the picture first to create the context for others. first think of an object and then talk about it by describing more and more about it as you go. It's similar to french structure in a crude sense - Object-Subject-Verb. ASL = a visual language... meaning describe as much as you can. details details details!!
that's because one of the first sign teachers in america was french, so asl is closer to french sign than it is to british sign.

asl sentence structure seems to make more sense than english sentence structure.

Last edited by Jolie77; 04-16-2009 at 05:31 PM. Reason: fixing the quote
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Unread 04-16-2009, 04:07 PM   #30
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oh yeah, look at what i just found!!!

Student Corner : ASL Sentence Structure
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