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Unread 02-03-2009, 01:56 PM   #1
smrvb
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Angry DirecTV Charges for Closed Captions

My husband is profoundly deaf, and we always have used captions on our TV. We recently decided on getting a newer TV, which recommended using higer quality cables to get the best picture. The instructions told us that we would then need to access closed captions from our set box from DirecTV. After over two hours on the phone with DirecTV, I learned the ONLY WAY to get access was to upgrade our subscription to HD (which we were not asking for) and pay a fee for the new set box as well as a monthly subscription. After the lengthy call, they attempted to make some credits for the costs, but we would still need to pay for simply getting captions.
I have cancelled my subscription as a result. I simply wanted others to be aware of our experience.
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Unread 02-03-2009, 03:01 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by smrvb View Post
My husband is profoundly deaf, and we always have used captions on our TV. We recently decided on getting a newer TV, which recommended using higer quality cables to get the best picture. The instructions told us that we would then need to access closed captions from our set box from DirecTV. After over two hours on the phone with DirecTV, I learned the ONLY WAY to get access was to upgrade our subscription to HD (which we were not asking for) and pay a fee for the new set box as well as a monthly subscription. After the lengthy call, they attempted to make some credits for the costs, but we would still need to pay for simply getting captions.
I have cancelled my subscription as a result. I simply wanted others to be aware of our experience.
The older box that use for analog TV does not have CC in it - only new box that use for HD are included CC.

You should still able to get CC if you use different plugs other than HDMI and Component (such as S-video or composite), you should be able to use the old box with CC on TV. I have HDTV hooked up with old DISH Network box with S-video plugs and still able to watch TV shows with CC.

HDMI is best if you use it in HD quality - that's with HD box or Blu-Ray video.
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Unread 02-03-2009, 03:16 PM   #3
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Charge for to use Closed Caption? Never hear of.

It's ridiculous, I'm tell you. RIDICULOUS!!!
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Unread 02-03-2009, 03:36 PM   #4
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Never heard about charge. You contact to write compliant letter to FCC against DirecTV.
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Unread 02-03-2009, 04:13 PM   #5
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Charge for to use Closed Caption? Never hear of.

It's ridiculous, I'm tell you. RIDICULOUS!!!
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Originally Posted by Chevy57 View Post
Never heard about charge. You contact to write compliant letter to FCC against DirecTV.
Actually, I think DirecTV is trying to tell the OP to get HD receiver box that can enable CC and I think OP have older DirecTV receiver box that are for analog TV (or standard TV) which does not have CC switch. I know they charge us for upgrade receiver box - no matter if you're deaf of hearing.
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Unread 02-03-2009, 04:35 PM   #6
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Charge as enable HD? That mean you receive digital or HD channel, not just CC.

Well, look like there is major problem with analog because DirectTV won't get analog after Feb 17th.
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Unread 02-03-2009, 05:13 PM   #7
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OP misunderstood what DirecTV said and OP thought DirecTV is charging us CC by buying a new HD box. If OP wanted to use CC on her HDTV, she will need HD receiver box OR she can just use S-Video or composite cable with her old DirecTV receiver box.

No, DirecTV and DISH Network is using digital signal - not analog. So, no need to switch to HD.
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Unread 02-03-2009, 05:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smrvb View Post
My husband is profoundly deaf, and we always have used captions on our TV. We recently decided on getting a newer TV, which recommended using higer quality cables to get the best picture. The instructions told us that we would then need to access closed captions from our set box from DirecTV. After over two hours on the phone with DirecTV, I learned the ONLY WAY to get access was to upgrade our subscription to HD (which we were not asking for) and pay a fee for the new set box as well as a monthly subscription. After the lengthy call, they attempted to make some credits for the costs, but we would still need to pay for simply getting captions.
I have cancelled my subscription as a result. I simply wanted others to be aware of our experience.
Doesn't your new TV already come with closed captions? I am not understanding why the CC on your TV wouldn't work with DirecTV. I don't know much about DirecTV as I do not have that, but I have always thought that no matter what kind of cable or satellite company you subscribe to, you would always be able to use the CC from your own TV and not needing to use the CC from the DirecTV set box, as long as your TV already came equipped with its own closed captions? I am puzzled.

I wonder if the DirecTV company is just using the CC feature in the newer set box as an excuse to rip you off and make you upgrade and pay more just to get CC even though you should be able to use the CC from your own TV with the old DirecTV set box?
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Unread 02-03-2009, 05:23 PM   #9
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Doesn't your new TV already come with closed captions? I am not understanding why the CC on your TV wouldn't work with DirecTV. I don't know much about DirecTV as I do not have that, but I have always thought that no matter what kind of cable or satellite company you subscribe to, you would always be able to use the CC from your own TV and not needing to use the CC from the DirecTV set box, as long as your TV already came equipped with its own closed captions? I am puzzled.

I wonder if the DirecTV company is just using the CC feature in the newer set box as an excuse to rip you off and make you upgrade and pay more just to get CC even though you should be able to use the CC from your own TV with the old DirecTV set box?
No, it's a common problem with HDTV sets. They do come with closed captioning decoders built in. However, you will not always be able to decode and render it right on your TV. So instead, you will have to do it on the TV receiver.
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Unread 02-03-2009, 05:50 PM   #10
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No, it's a common problem with HDTV sets. They do come with closed captioning decoders built in. However, you will not always be able to decode and render it right on your TV. So instead, you will have to do it on the TV receiver.
Oh okay. Well, I do not have a HDTV so I did not know this. Thanks.

However, I do not think DirecTV should be charging them extra for a new DirecTV set box if it is only for the same channels that the OP previously had with the old set box and no extra channels, and just so they can access the closed captioning. He wasn't asking for anything extra except the channels he already had and just for the ability to access closed captioning from the new set box, therefore shouldn't he shouldn't paying extra. This is a rip-off.
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Unread 02-03-2009, 06:16 PM   #11
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DirecTV and DISH doesn't use same system as Cable Company - we buy the receiver box, not rent it like Cable Company does.

When I research on getting HDTV, I contacted DISH about upgrade to HD and they said we have to buy HD receiver (I never mentioned CC issue). It’s normal to everyone – deaf or hearing.

So, as I said earlier that OP misunderstood DirecTV.
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Unread 02-05-2009, 03:09 AM   #12
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I have had DirecTV for years and they never charge for CC... It is funny and insane to even think there is an extra fee for CC... HDTV the person must buy the HD converter box to get it and make sure it is installed properly. Many times it works better with the HMDI cables and make sure the firmware is updated.

I will say, I got a good laugh on this thread.
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Unread 02-05-2009, 10:39 PM   #13
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The older box that use for analog TV does not have CC in it - only new box that use for HD are included CC.

You should still able to get CC if you use different plugs other than HDMI and Component (such as S-video or composite), you should be able to use the old box with CC on TV. I have HDTV hooked up with old DISH Network box with S-video plugs and still able to watch TV shows with CC.

HDMI is best if you use it in HD quality - that's with HD box or Blu-Ray video.
He is right!
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Unread 02-05-2009, 10:41 PM   #14
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Charge for to use Closed Caption? Never hear of.

It's ridiculous, I'm tell you. RIDICULOUS!!!
That's not what DirectTV means. They charge HD programming fee so it allows to access CC since using a HDMI or Component cable. If a person does not want a HD programming and wanted to have a CC on nonHD channels. access the TV menu as long as it does not using a HDMI or component cable
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Unread 02-06-2009, 08:54 AM   #15
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uh oh -- I can see problems popping up now when we do finally do the switchover to digital this summer. Since many of us are tight with budgets and cannot afford fancy smancy gadgets just to have CC is a infringement on our rights!! FCC is making a requirement for so much percentage of CC shows, but now with digital switchover, the CC issue seems to be a very large oversight issue. We shouldn't have to be penalized with being forced to buy certain level of service just to have CC enabled just because we were born deaf/HOH or lost hearing due to illness, war, what have you!!!!

We as deaf/hoh have fought long and hard just to get CC on all TV shows and now we could be facing a possibility of losing it just due to digital programming and higher costs of equipment to make it work ?!?! We worked too hard and long and we have become complacent with what we have now and soon many of us will have this ripped from our needs ?!

I admit though that I have digital cable for couple years now as part of all in one package deal and the digital box has instructions for enabling CC. At first I thought this was odd and never thought of any possible ramifications until now. This is an outrage!!

We need to stick together on this and make sure we get reimbursed or get a much lower rate becuase of the CC issues. There has gotta be a way.
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Unread 02-06-2009, 03:43 PM   #16
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uh oh -- I can see problems popping up now when we do finally do the switchover to digital this summer. Since many of us are tight with budgets and cannot afford fancy smancy gadgets just to have CC is a infringement on our rights!! FCC is making a requirement for so much percentage of CC shows, but now with digital switchover, the CC issue seems to be a very large oversight issue. We shouldn't have to be penalized with being forced to buy certain level of service just to have CC enabled just because we were born deaf/HOH or lost hearing due to illness, war, what have you!!!!

We as deaf/hoh have fought long and hard just to get CC on all TV shows and now we could be facing a possibility of losing it just due to digital programming and higher costs of equipment to make it work ?!?! We worked too hard and long and we have become complacent with what we have now and soon many of us will have this ripped from our needs ?!

I admit though that I have digital cable for couple years now as part of all in one package deal and the digital box has instructions for enabling CC. At first I thought this was odd and never thought of any possible ramifications until now. This is an outrage!!

We need to stick together on this and make sure we get reimbursed or get a much lower rate becuase of the CC issues. There has gotta be a way.

You still can use your analog cable box or Sat box and still get the same CC even on HDTV but the picture would look so blocky unless you view it in the standard scale which put black bar on each side of the screen and shrink it down.

If you stay with old TV then you can keep using old analog cable box and old Sat box with CC still working like always.

If you want a full Digital cable or Sat programming then you need to purchase a box that will support Digital to use with HDTV then.

So people with low budget can stay with analog cable boxes and Sat boxes, if they use antenna or rabbit ear then they can apply for coupon for OTA (Over the Air) box from Wal Mart would cost them only 12 dollar to get one to use with rabbit ears or antenna and they can keep using thier old TV still.


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Unread 02-06-2009, 06:21 PM   #17
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You still can use your analog cable box or Sat box and still get the same CC even on HDTV but the picture would look so blocky unless you view it in the standard scale which put black bar on each side of the screen and shrink it down.

If you stay with old TV then you can keep using old analog cable box and old Sat box with CC still working like always.

If you want a full Digital cable or Sat programming then you need to purchase a box that will support Digital to use with HDTV then.

So people with low budget can stay with analog cable boxes and Sat boxes, if they use antenna or rabbit ear then they can apply for coupon for OTA (Over the Air) box from Wal Mart would cost them only 12 dollar to get one to use with rabbit ears or antenna and they can keep using thier old TV still.


.
I am afraid you are missing the point here. smrvb wanted to get direct tv. they found out just to have CC, they MUST upgrade. Big companies should not be allowed to get away with this. They ended up canceling the service so I am applauding smrvb on this. big kudos for them.

I do NOT want to hear a work around by finding a different way just be cause we are deaf/HOH. If the big companies like directtv wants me to be a customer, then I want to be served with the services i pay for along with CC without paying extra for this which is what we always have been doing.
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Unread 02-06-2009, 06:59 PM   #18
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Uh, no, that's not what happened. It was a simple misunderstood between OP and DirecTV.

It seems to me that OP bought a new TV - which is HDTV - and they wanted to use better quality picture which HDMI provided. And then they learned from "instruction" (I don't know if it's from their new HDTV or HDMI cable itself) suggested them to enable CC through their DirecTV box.

Now they learned they cannot enable CC through their OLD DirecTV box and they contacted DirecTV. DirecTV suggested them to get newer box - HD box. DirecTV HD box can enable CC.

If anybody - hearing or deaf - wanted to upgrade to HD package, you got to buy the HD box and pay little extra for HD TV shows. It's normal. If the OP wanted to use the HDMI, they got to get HD upgrade and yes, it cost money. That's life, period.

So, if the OP doesn't want HD package, then they can keep their old box and hook up S-video cable and they still can enjoy the show with CC.
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Unread 02-06-2009, 10:41 PM   #19
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I am afraid you are missing the point here. smrvb wanted to get direct tv. they found out just to have CC, they MUST upgrade. Big companies should not be allowed to get away with this. They ended up canceling the service so I am applauding smrvb on this. big kudos for them.

I do NOT want to hear a work around by finding a different way just be cause we are deaf/HOH. If the big companies like directtv wants me to be a customer, then I want to be served with the services i pay for along with CC without paying extra for this which is what we always have been doing.
Nope I did not miss the point at all.

Yes they got a new TV which is probably a HDTV but they still can get CC from thier old DirectTV box using lesser quailty video output like Yellow Video RCA Composite or S-Video .

Most likily they were not happy with the quailty of the picture or did not turn on the right CC on their TV set (Some HDTV have a seperate Digital and Analog line21 CC toggle on menu) so it would work on their old DirectTV box.

I am a DirectTV user for a very long time and still using DirectTV on both old analog TV and new HDTV with no problems.





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Uh, no, that's not what happened. It was a simple misunderstood between OP and DirecTV.

It seems to me that OP bought a new TV - which is HDTV - and they wanted to use better quality picture which HDMI provided. And then they learned from "instruction" (I don't know if it's from their new HDTV or HDMI cable itself) suggested them to enable CC through their DirecTV box.

Now they learned they cannot enable CC through their OLD DirecTV box and they contacted DirecTV. DirecTV suggested them to get newer box - HD box. DirecTV HD box can enable CC.

If anybody - hearing or deaf - wanted to upgrade to HD package, you got to buy the HD box and pay little extra for HD TV shows. It's normal. If the OP wanted to use the HDMI, they got to get HD upgrade and yes, it cost money. That's life, period.

So, if the OP doesn't want HD package, then they can keep their old box and hook up S-video cable and they still can enjoy the show with CC.
JMH is thinking the very similar thing as I am thinking and I agree with JMH here.




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Unread 02-07-2009, 11:14 AM   #20
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WOW the confusion. And it is a simple thing to fix .. oh well
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Unread 02-07-2009, 07:57 PM   #21
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WOW the confusion. And it is a simple thing to fix .. oh well
You’ll be amazing how many people out there are ignorant on technology.
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Unread 02-26-2009, 12:56 PM   #22
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My husband is profoundly deaf, and we always have used captions on our TV. We recently decided on getting a newer TV, which recommended using higer quality cables to get the best picture. The instructions told us that we would then need to access closed captions from our set box from DirecTV. After over two hours on the phone with DirecTV, I learned the ONLY WAY to get access was to upgrade our subscription to HD (which we were not asking for) and pay a fee for the new set box as well as a monthly subscription. After the lengthy call, they attempted to make some credits for the costs, but we would still need to pay for simply getting captions. I have cancelled my subscription as a result. I simply wanted others to be aware of our experience.
Many people are not aware that it is often possible to get NTSC, Line 21, analog closed caption data through component video cables, which will provide the best picture quality for standard definition video. (However, when using a DVD player, it is essential to turn off progressive scanning and upconversion in order for the TV to be able to decode the Line 21 caption data. Some HDTVs, like some Samsung HDTVs, also do not provide decoding of analog caption data through component video inputs.)

A DirecTV user with a new digital TV thus may not *have* to upgrade to HD service from DirecTV. The user can try using the best analog video connection possible from the set top box that will also transmit closed caption data. The analog connections are listed below in descending order of picture quality:

Component (best)
S-video
Composite
RF (worst)

No HDTV will be able to get the best picture quality possible by using a set-top box that is designed to provide standard definition (SD) programming at only 480i. If you want the best picture quality, then you generally have to pay more for HD service from the pay TV service provider (1080i) whenever you're required to use a set-top box (as is the case with satellite service). (Cable company customers may be able to get some HD channels by plugging the cable directly into their HDTV, however.)

Unfortunately, some HDTVs that don't have analog tuners may not decode Line 21, analog closed caption data; they may only decode ATSC closed caption data that are received directly via antenna or cable. It's possible that the kind of TV that was purchased by the OP lacks an analog, NTSC tuner, (and possibly a decoder for NSTC analog captions) and cannot decode NTSC analog captions sent via set-top boxes. The DTV may be able to decode only ATSC CEA-608 and ATSC CEA-708 caption data that are received via the RF input. This (unnecessary) inadequacy would be due to the design of the TV, which isn't currently required by the FCC to be fully accessible, and this would not be the fault of DirecTV or other pay TV service providers.

Unfortunately, the FCC and consumer organizations appear to have overlooked the need to require digital TVs to decode NTSC CEA-608 (analog) caption data on analog video inputs. The FCC is requiring pay TV service providers to transmit analog caption data to old analog TVs but hasn't made sure that new TVs will have the capability of decoding that data on the analog inputs (which is also important for backwards compatibility with VCRs, DVRs and DVD players). In my opinion, the FCC needs to be told to require a) all future set top boxes to decode all available caption data and b) all new DTVs to be able to decode NTSC caption data on all analog inputs.

For consumers who need captions, one way of getting around this problem for now is to purchase DTVs that have both analog (NTSC) and digital (ATSC) tuners since those TVs have to be able to decode both NTSC and ATSC caption data and they would be more likely to decode NTSC captions on the analog inputs. It's also important to check out the capability of the TV to decode caption data on all these inputs within 15 days after buying the TV, though.

There *may* be some DTVs that have only a digital tuner which can still decode NTSC caption data on the analog inputs, but if there are, people and companies need to let us know about them.


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Unread 02-26-2009, 02:01 PM   #23
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Many people are not aware that it is often possible to get NTSC, Line 21, analog closed caption data through component video cables, which will provide the best picture quality for standard definition video. (However, when using a DVD player, it is essential to turn off progressive scanning and upconversion in order for the TV to be able to decode the Line 21 caption data. Some HDTVs, like some Samsung HDTVs, also do not provide decoding of analog caption data through component video inputs.)
That's a common problem with some HDTVs not offering CC as an option on component video inputs when people are in fact able to get CC through component cables as long it is in the interlaced mode, not progressive mode. It's rather perplexing why they would leave that option out on some HDTVs. I know ViewSonic is one of them too.

It's quite a pain in the neck that we have to keep fighting for equal access all of the times. It's a neverending battle. The HDMI technology is now a new battle to fight to gain equal access.

Ugh.
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Unread 02-26-2009, 02:14 PM   #24
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That's a common problem with some HDTVs not offering CC as an option on component video inputs when people are in fact able to get CC through component cables as long it is in the interlaced mode, not progressive mode. It's rather perplexing why they would leave that option out on some HDTVs. I know ViewSonic is one of them too.

It's quite a pain in the neck that we have to keep fighting for equal access all of the times. It's a neverending battle. The HDMI technology is now a new battle to fight to gain equal access.

Ugh.
Banjo, I'd really like to know what other TVs aren't decoding captions through the component inputs. Was it your personal experience that Viewsonic HDTVs don't decode captions on the component inputs, or did you see that somewhere else? Do you know what models of Viewsonic HDTV had these deficits?

Reply comments to the FCC are due tomorrow about digital captioning, so specific information could be included in the reply comments if we can verify this on the Viewsonic web site. (I did that for a Samsung plasma HDTV, for example, in my own comment.)

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Unread 02-26-2009, 03:32 PM   #25
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Sorry for off topic.... I was wonder is there way to get Blu-ray player to support CC? not only subtitles.
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Unread 02-27-2009, 07:41 AM   #26
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Sorry for off topic.... I was wonder is there way to get Blu-ray player to support CC? not only subtitles.
Only if you use composite or S-video that directly to TV.
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Unread 02-27-2009, 07:57 AM   #27
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Yes it amazes me how the FCC overlooks CC, and where is the D/deaf nazi when we need them ???? hmmmm
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Unread 02-27-2009, 03:38 PM   #28
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Yes it amazes me how the FCC overlooks CC, and where is the D/deaf nazi when we need them ???? hmmmm
FCC is just offers basic needs for deaf people, there's no law and FCC couldn't make any regulation with CC situation over HDMI.

It's up to congress to consider any new bill, you need call to your CONGRESSMEN.
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Unread 02-27-2009, 05:37 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Foxrac View Post
Only if you use composite or S-video that directly to TV.
Oh, I will try it and let you know.
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Unread 02-27-2009, 05:40 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Foxrac View Post
FCC is just offers basic needs for deaf people, there's no law and FCC couldn't make any regulation with CC situation over HDMI.

It's up to congress to consider any new bill, you need call to your CONGRESSMEN.
Well, HDMI should support CC look at those Cable box and Tivo they were used with HDMI and CC working fine. Plus CC not support on Blu-ray it will make Blu-ray look bad! I already own Blu-ray Player myself. Now my roommate think Blu-ray player sucks it because it doesn't support CC I gonna need prove them wrong.
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