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View Poll Results: Gun Law - Do you want to:
BAN THE GUNS! 8 11.43%
allow guns (legally) but make it HIGHLY restrictive 31 44.29%
allow guns (legally) and less restrictive 31 44.29%
Voters: 70. You may not vote on this poll

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Unread 05-03-2008, 05:32 AM   #1
Jiro
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Gun Law

Thought I'll make a new topic to talk about - GUN LAW

Do you agree that guns should be banned and/or highly restrictive? and why?

I believe this issue is very important and absolutely necessary to discuss about because for the past couple years, we've been having horrible gun-related violences such as Virginia Tech shooting, Northern Illinois shooting, Omaha Mall shooting (Nebraska), and strings of Chicago shootings.

For example - NJ, NY, and MD are one of 5 states (I don't know who else) that are extremely anti-guns. Whereas... most of other states such as Virginia, Pennsylvania, Florida, etc. are gun-friendly states and will give you CCW permit (concealed carry weapon) when requested.

I live in NJ and I own a gun for competition purpose (and of course for personal defense at home) but it was damn difficult to get one and expensive, too. Having a CCW in NJ is 99.9% impossible. If I'm correct, only about 200 CCW have been issued so far. If you're rich and powerful, you can get one but what about rest of us who live in dangerous neighborhood such as Camden and Newark? or commuters passing thru it?

It was even an insult and a joke that you can even get sued (for personal injury) by intruder who broke into your house and you shot him in self-defense. Florida was the first state to sign a bill called "STAND YOUR GROUND" that immunizes citizens who use deadly force in self-defense against criminal prosecution and civil liability. 31 states joined this bill (NY/NJ are not part of it).

My opinion is - I am pro-gun and I believe the laws should be less restrictive on guns. Nobody robs armed citizens! Armed neighborhood reduces crimes! Do not misunderstand that lax gun law do increases gun crimes. It's the state with restrictive gun laws that has the most crimes because the criminals who obtain the guns ILLEGALLY will take advantage of this.

Do NOT misunderstand that armed citizens walking around the town/city are trigger-happy Rambo who will start shooting like Wild West when crime occurs. Having CCW permit requires extensive training and it has many certain qualification requirements. Most CCW citizens are quite well-educated with the laws and VERY careful at who they shoot at. The statistic shows that police officers are 11x more likely than armed citizens to shoot at INNOCENT person mistaken for criminals - remember Sean Bell and Amarillo Dillas and many other victims, especially black people who are accidentally killed by cops. In fact, when is the last time you heard in news about accidental shooting by armed citizen? You may have heard of handful of accidental shootings at home by children for some times but it is actually quite rare.

SORRY for long story but I thought it's a good way to start this discussion for everybody to have some understanding about this issue! BTW - the next USA President will undoubtedly be a Democrat... which means he/she will most likely sign to renew the most restrictive gun law (enacted by Bill Clinton) back on the table. George Bush did not sign to renew this law. What will most likely to happen if the new President signs the laws are: all assault weapons will be banned (enacted by Bill Clinton), only 1 firearm can be purchased per month, increase the price of guns and bullets, less gun shows/exhibitions, law-abiding armed citizens will be unable to defend themselves, etc.

let's hear your opinion!!!
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Unread 05-03-2008, 06:49 AM   #2
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Here vote....allow guns (legally) but make it HIGHLY restrictive
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Unread 05-03-2008, 08:12 AM   #3
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hey! you gota explain your stance! haha
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Unread 05-03-2008, 08:23 AM   #4
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moderator - oops! can you move this thread to "On-topic Debates"? Thanks!
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Unread 05-03-2008, 08:25 AM   #5
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Mod's note:

Thread is moved to proper location requested by Creator.
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Unread 05-03-2008, 02:15 PM   #6
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This is an interesting debate, I must say.

I grew up being around guns and have been taught how to shoot it. Does that mean I'd turn out to be a cold-blooded murderer? No. However, I feel that it should be restrictive to a norm. For one to obtain a gun license, in some states, they are required to take classes to learn about the guns, so and on.

Sure, There has been a lot of focus on the guns due to the school shootings, mall shootings or wherever the shootings has been at. The problem is, gun are easily passed around and it's not hard to find one. They say gun kills people but really, that isn't the answer. People kill people. Gun is just a tool that helps people kill people. They chose to either pull the trigger or they chose not to do so.

I'm not saying that guns should be banned but I believe it should be cared with awareness because a lot of the time, people would just grab the gun and start shooting with revenge or whatever emotions they may come across with. A lot of the time, they are not aware of the safety of the guns. The only reason gun laws has became stricter is because of how people have been abusing the privilege to own a gun.
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Unread 05-03-2008, 02:54 PM   #7
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Thanks for your input! Your last sentence - "The only reason gun laws has became stricter is because of how people have been abusing the privilege to own a gun" is the most common reason for stricter gun law. In my opinion, I believe it's just those overly-sensitive liberals who think there are too many bad people and are just easily afraid of everything - ban violent movies/tv, ban all drugs, ban guns, ban ban ban. I believe that if criminals TEND not to commit gun-related crimes in armed neighborhood. It's already proven that city/town with most restrictive gun laws have much more crimes than less restricted. Maybe I should clarify what I meant about "highly restrictive" means.

They allow you to own a gun due to Amendment 2 but they make it so restrictive by making you liable to any shooting occurred by you even in case of self-defense, CCW is usually not allowable, and making it extremely expensive - high fees, high cost of bullets, etc.

What I want is - allow guns and less restriction but stricter requirements - extensive training and clean mental history. I do not want people behind me in the line at CVS to have one. I'm comfortable with selected, competent, well-trained citizens carrying it around.

The cases of people who own guns abusing the privileges are quite rare and we all know media likes to over-exaggerate anything like shark attacks which are also VERY rare. It's the criminals who own the guns ILLEGALLY that made public think banning guns will fix it. We can't even own stun gun or pepper spray especially in NY. How are we supposed to defend ourself? call 911? by the time they come, you're already dead. in fact - cops are not obliged by laws to rescue you.
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Unread 05-03-2008, 04:05 PM   #8
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Voted allow guns legal and less restrictive except for the government's building, public area, schools, etc. I support it for protect rights.
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Unread 05-03-2008, 04:23 PM   #9
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Legal gun for protect. They must have a license of gun. The crime of gangs group got murder and robbery. They do not have a handgun license. They can get arrested. They got charged of carrying a handgun without license. I don't like for gangs and other people get into crime like kill to anyone and do robbery to get money. It's right for gun legal with license only. It's protect to family and people to prevent of crimes. Make sure if any crimes to have a handgun license. It make sure check the criminal history. They can't get a handgun license due to Criminal record. If no criminal record and can get a license for gun protect.
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Unread 05-03-2008, 05:04 PM   #10
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Those who want guns for criminal purposes will get ahold of them no matter what the restrictions are. The majority of guns in criminal activity were obtained without legal purchase, and are unregistered. People who use weapons in the commission of crimes certainly aren't concerned about about obeying gun laws.

For those that have purchased guns and later suffer a psychotic break and use the weapon in the commission of a crime, such as at Virginia Tech, if they don't have a diagnosis of a mental illness, and no criminal record, gun laws would not serve to prevent things such as this happening.
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Unread 05-04-2008, 03:30 AM   #11
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mostly police officers can allowed carry gun in public because must have license and also include police school too.

my uncle also police for correction officers he can carry gun at work
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Unread 05-04-2008, 03:35 AM   #12
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they are cops... they're automatically given guns and badges after they graduate from police school. My point is - the cops are not there for you 24/7. This debate is about being able to carry gun with you as civilian to protect yourself.
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Unread 05-04-2008, 03:52 AM   #13
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In the U.S., it violates the constitution to restrict an adult citizen who has no felony conviction from carrying a firearm.

Every large urban areas that ignores the constitutional law of the land to ban firearms anyway now has the worst gun crimes in our country, because honest citizens are disarmed, and criminals don't give a rodent's behind what is banned.

Terrorists, thugs, and cowards who inflict violence on women and children love gun banners.
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Unread 05-04-2008, 04:28 AM   #14
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I voted: allow guns (legally) but make it HIGHLY restrictive.

The reason I am for it because many people suffers mental illness and can create more problems to hurt themselves and hurt innoncent children and adults.

If you want to own guns then need reason in writing to get a court order and make sure your weapons are legal (licensed).
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Unread 05-04-2008, 06:33 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Liebling:-))) View Post
If you want to own guns then need reason in writing to get a court order and make sure your weapons are legal (licensed).
That may be true where you live, but laws vary state by state here in the U.S. In the states where I live and visit, a gun in one's home or carried openly does not need to be registered or licenced. It is already permitted by the U.S. and state constitutions.

In the states where I live, if you want to carry concealed, the sheriff must issue a concealed weapon permit if you pass a background check and show safe competency. An adequate reason is "personal protection." As for those buildings where concealed carry is (legally) not allowed, that violates my personal rights, and I do not enter. Freedom is often inconvenient.
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Unread 05-04-2008, 06:40 AM   #16
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I dont have anything against people who own guns, especially those who use them for hunting or target practicing at a shooting gallery. But, I don't understand why people need to keep high-powered, semi/automatic guns, especially if they think such guns are good for defending themselves.
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Unread 05-04-2008, 09:00 PM   #17
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who said they need to keep high-powered, semi/automatic guns for defending themselves? didn't you say you're fine with them using it for hunting or target practicing?

Most people who carry concealed weapons DO NOT usually own high-powered, automatic guns because that is impractical to carry. It's heavy and bulky. They mostly carry fairly small pistols. And do you have any idea how expensive high-powered guns are??? and the bullets for that too! Mind you - automatic weapons are illegal and have always been illegal.

If you can - can you please tell me if you have heard in news where people shot intruders in self-defense with high-powered, semi/automatic weapon?
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Unread 05-04-2008, 09:03 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by jiro123 View Post
who said they need to keep high-powered, semi/automatic guns for defending themselves? didn't you say you're fine with them using it for hunting or target practicing?

Most people who carry concealed weapons DO NOT usually own high-powered, automatic guns because that is impractical to carry. It's heavy and bulky. They mostly carry fairly small pistols. And do you have any idea how expensive high-powered guns are??? and the bullets for that too! Mind you - automatic weapons are illegal and have always been illegal.

If you can - can you please tell me if you have heard in news where people shot intruders in self-defense with high-powered, semi/automatic weapon?
And the fact that they are illegal does not prevent those who want to obtain them from purchasing them and using them, now does it?
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Unread 05-04-2008, 09:13 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liebling:-))) View Post
I voted: allow guns (legally) but make it HIGHLY restrictive.

The reason I am for it because many people suffers mental illness and can create more problems to hurt themselves and hurt innoncent children and adults.

If you want to own guns then need reason in writing to get a court order and make sure your weapons are legal (licensed).
But that doesn't make much difference. What if I lied about having legitimated reason to own one? And mind you - I've repeatedly said that the people with mental history CANNOT own guns by law and all gun purchases are LEGAL & LICENSED.

I think we should increase age limit for smoking or get court order to have a reason to smoke since it kills more people (estimated 5 million deaths a year) than AIDS/tuberculosis/accidents/gun crimes combined. Smoking kills more innocent children and adults than guns do! Ever heard of second-hand smoking?! <cough cough>
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Unread 05-04-2008, 09:15 PM   #20
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And the fact that they are illegal does not prevent those who want to obtain them from purchasing them and using them, now does it?
oh you mean the criminals? I think you confuse gun crimes with legal guns. You know most of gun crimes are occurred by illegal guns where criminals bought it from black markets. so you tell me how are we supposed to defend ourselves from criminals with illegal guns. my cell phone?
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Unread 05-04-2008, 10:54 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiro123 View Post
Do you agree that guns should be banned and/or highly restrictive? and why?
The U.S. Constitution protects the rights of U.S. citizens to be armed, so if I support anything other than that I'd be going against the Constitution.

So, I believe guns should NOT be banned because that would be unconstitutional. Gun ownership should NOT be highly restrictive because that too, would be unconstitutional.


Quote:
It was even an insult and a joke that you can even get sued (for personal injury) by intruder who broke into your house and you shot him in self-defense. Florida was the first state to sign a bill called "STAND YOUR GROUND" that immunizes citizens who use deadly force in self-defense against criminal prosecution and civil liability. 31 states joined this bill (NY/NJ are not part of it).
South Carolina:

ARTICLE 6.

PROTECTION OF PERSONS AND PROPERTY

SECTION 16-11-410. Citation of article.

This article may be cited as the "Protection of Persons and Property Act".

SECTION 16-11-420. Intent and findings of General Assembly.

(A) It is the intent of the General Assembly to codify the common law Castle Doctrine which recognizes that a person's home is his castle and to extend the doctrine to include an occupied vehicle and the person's place of business.

(B) The General Assembly finds that it is proper for law-abiding citizens to protect themselves, their families, and others from intruders and attackers without fear of prosecution or civil action for acting in defense of themselves and others.

(C) The General Assembly finds that Section 20, Article I of the South Carolina Constitution guarantees the right of the people to bear arms, and this right shall not be infringed.

(D) The General Assembly finds that persons residing in or visiting this State have a right to expect to remain unmolested and safe within their homes, businesses, and vehicles.

(E) The General Assembly finds that no person or victim of crime should be required to surrender his personal safety to a criminal, nor should a person or victim be required to needlessly retreat in the face of intrusion or attack.

S.C. Code of Laws Title 16 Chapter 11 Offenses Against Property - www.scstatehouse.net-LPITS


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SORRY for long story but I thought it's a good way to start this discussion for everybody to have some understanding about this issue! BTW - the next USA President will undoubtedly be a Democrat...
Not necessarily a Democrat but definitely not a conservative.


Quote:
... What will most likely to happen if the new President signs the laws are: all assault weapons will be banned (enacted by Bill Clinton), only 1 firearm can be purchased per month, increase the price of guns and bullets, less gun shows/exhibitions, law-abiding armed citizens will be unable to defend themselves, etc.
Stock up now.
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Unread 05-04-2008, 10:58 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolie_77 View Post
...The only reason gun laws has became stricter is because of how people have been abusing the privilege to own a gun.
One correction . . . according to the Constitution, gun ownership is a right, not a privilege.
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Unread 05-04-2008, 11:03 PM   #23
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... I'm comfortable with selected, competent, well-trained citizens carrying it around.
I prefer gun owners/users to be competent and well-trained citizens but I'm a little nervous about the word "selected". Who is doing the selecting?


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The cases of people who own guns abusing the privileges...
Oops! There's that word "privileges" again.


Quote:
... It's the criminals who own the guns ILLEGALLY that made public think banning guns will fix it. We can't even own stun gun or pepper spray especially in NY. How are we supposed to defend ourself? call 911? by the time they come, you're already dead. in fact - cops are not obliged by laws to rescue you.
Good points.
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Unread 05-04-2008, 11:14 PM   #24
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In the states where I live, if you want to carry concealed, the sheriff must issue a concealed weapon permit if you pass a background check and show safe competency. An adequate reason is "personal protection." As for those buildings where concealed carry is (legally) not allowed, that violates my personal rights, and I do not enter. Freedom is often inconvenient.
In my state, SC, the conceal carry permits are issued by SLED (State Law Enforcement Division; similar to a state police force). We are required to have a background check, attend classes, pass a written test, and pass a performance (shooting) test, all of which we pay for out of our own pockets.

We also avoid private businesses that don't permit guns. Hubby has even quit serving an entire gated community with his business because they forbid firearms. When potential clients call him from there, he tells them that until the homeowners change the "laws" of their community, he won't enter. (He doesn't normally carry when he works but it's the principle for him.)

Almost all of my assignments are in schools, hospitals, and government buildings, so I'm stuck.
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Unread 05-04-2008, 11:33 PM   #25
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oh you mean the criminals? I think you confuse gun crimes with legal guns. You know most of gun crimes are occurred by illegal guns where criminals bought it from black markets. so you tell me how are we supposed to defend ourselves from criminals with illegal guns. my cell phone?
That's my whole point. People who purchase guins legally and have them liscensed are not the ones committing crimes with them. So greater restriction on the gun laws will not reduce crime committed with weapons. The criminals will simply get them by other means just as they do now. Stricter gun laws would do nothing more than provide the already law abiding citizen with afalse sense of security.
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Unread 05-04-2008, 11:38 PM   #26
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Banning guns isn't going to solve the problem.

Take a gun away. There's still knives. Take a knife away. There's still baseball bats. Take a baseball bat away. There's still hockey sticks.

I could go on and on... cuz there will always be weapons out there. We're pretty resourceful when it comes to achieving something.

The bigger issue is being more aware of what's going on and doing something about it.

Nowadays, people have obvious problems and no one does anything about it.
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Unread 05-06-2008, 06:33 PM   #27
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I prefer gun owners/users to be competent and well-trained citizens but I'm a little nervous about the word "selected". Who is doing the selecting?
Maybe I should carefully choose the word but I'll clarify. "Selected" as in - you must pass the tests demonstrating your competence and skill. For example - you get driver license after you pass the test. You get your college degree after you pass the tests/courses. We all like to see some kind of paper proofs that you are competent. So nobody is doing the selecting... you pass the test to obtain CCW - no biased judgment involved... simple as that. how about that?
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Unread 05-06-2008, 06:39 PM   #28
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Taser Gun? let me know-
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Unread 05-06-2008, 06:48 PM   #29
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Maybe I should carefully choose the word but I'll clarify. "Selected" as in - you must pass the tests demonstrating your competence and skill. For example - you get driver license after you pass the test. You get your college degree after you pass the tests/courses. We all like to see some kind of paper proofs that you are competent. So nobody is doing the selecting... you pass the test to obtain CCW - no biased judgment involved... simple as that. how about that?
I understand, and to a point agree with you if you mean getting a conceal carry permit. But for general gun ownership, that's a right, not a privilege, unlike a driver's license or college degree.

I guess I'm just sensitive to anything that sounds like "selected" groups of people. If you didn't mean it that way, then I'm cool with it.
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Unread 05-06-2008, 07:55 PM   #30
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I understand, and to a point agree with you if you mean getting a conceal carry permit. But for general gun ownership, that's a right, not a privilege, unlike a driver's license or college degree.

I guess I'm just sensitive to anything that sounds like "selected" groups of people. If you didn't mean it that way, then I'm cool with it.
I know. Gotta love how politic is... gotta be very very careful with the choosing of words when it can be subjective to any interpretations. But I'm glad we're on same pages!
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