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Unread 04-04-2008, 08:02 PM   #1
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Nelson Mandela: A Villain Portrayed As A Hero

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Nelson Mandela: A Villain Portrayed As A Hero

Nelson Mandela is a South African citizen who chose to place his private resentment of the existing Apartheid regime above the welfare of his country. He actively campaigned to replace a regime that gave order and wealth, with a regime that could only ever supply anarchy and poverty. But for helping to convert a prosperous, safe and stable community into an impoverished, unstable and dangerous community, he has won international plaudits, including the Nobel peace prize awarded in Oslo in 1993.
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Why I'm fleeing South Africa

I am leaving South Africa. I have lived here for 35 years, and I shall leave with anguish. My home and my friends are here, but I am terrified. I know I shall be in trouble for saying so, because I am the widow of Alan Paton.

Fifty years ago he wrote Cry, The Beloved Country. He was an unknown schoolmaster and it was his first book, but it became a bestseller overnight. It was eventually translated into more than 20 languages and became a set book in schools all over the world. It has sold more than 15 million copies and still sells 100,000 copies a year.

As a result of the startling success of this book, my husband became famous for his impassioned speeches and writings, which brought to the notice of the world the suffering of the black man under apartheid.

He campaigned for Nelson Mandela's release from prison and he worked all his life for black majority rule. He was incredibly hopeful about the new South Africa that would follow the end of apartheid, but he died in 1988, aged 85.

I was so sorry he did not witness the euphoria and love at the time of the election in 1994.But I am glad he is not alive now. He would have been so distressed to see what has happened to his beloved country.

I love this country with a passion, but I cannot live here any more. I can no longer live slung about with panic buttons and gear locks. I am tired of driving with my car windows closed and the doors locked, tired of being afraid of stopping at red lights. I am tired of being constantly on the alert, having that sudden frisson of fear at the sight of a shadow by the gate, of a group of youths approaching - although nine times out of 10 they are innocent of harmful intent. Such is the suspicion that dogs us all.
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A Simple Example Of Communal Decline

When a country begins sliding into oblivion it really is the little things that get to you. You wake up in the morning and turn to see what time it is. The clock is off. The electricity is off again. Sometimes for a few minutes, sometimes for a few hours, but it seems to happen more regularly than before.

You pick up the phone at work to make a call. Nothing. Your neighborhood is without telephone service again. You breathe a sigh of relief—at least if all the phones are out, they'll do something relatively soon to fix it. If it's just your own line, it can take days before they'll do anything.

After the power comes on, you turn on the television to watch a favorite program, and hope you get the right sound with the right picture. Sometimes you get the sound of one show with the picture of another. Sometimes it's just the one or the other. Or a radio station instead of the soundtrack. You've read the papers—a large number of the "old" employees have walked out of the broadcasting studios. They couldn't take it anymore. And since television is an arm of the government, their replacements are appointed politically, not because of their experience or ability.

You drive home after going out for dinner. Entire neighborhoods are without street lights. Well, to be more accurate they are without lights that work. And the lights have been out for months. The city has said it won't fix them.

These are the little things in South Africa today. These are the things that annoy. The big things are too frightening even to consider.
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Black Savages Murder White Farmer

A WHITE farmer was shot dead by President Robert Mugabe's ZANU-PF activists a day after the Zimbabwean leader vowed to push forward his land seizure plans with greater speed.

Terry Ford's final hours were spent trying to protect his property single-handed from a mob of 20 so-called war veterans, who beat him before killing him with a single bullet through the head.

Police ignored repeated telephone calls for help with the officer on duty telling Mr Ford that he could not come out to Gowrie Farm at Norton, 50km south of Harare, because his driver was fast asleep and must not be woken.

The police eventually arrived, more than six hours after Mr Ford's body was found by his cook, slumped beneath a tree.

"Terry was one of the most kind-hearted people in the world and all he wanted to do was farm," his fiancee Naomi Raaff said. "What has this achieved, other than the loss of a much-loved, innocent man?"
Yet people in Canada, the USA, United Kingdom and other countries write of Nelson Mandela in such a hagiographic way. It's disgusting. I met a man from South Africa. He is now living here with his family. He shared some quite scary stories about South Africa after Nelson Mandela took over the country.

He isn't a saint. That's for sure.
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Unread 04-04-2008, 08:30 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Banjo View Post
Yet people in Canada, the USA, United Kingdom and other countries write of Nelson Mandela in such a hagiographic way. It's disgusting. I met a man from South Africa. He is now living here with his family. He shared some quite scary stories about South Africa after Nelson Mandela took over the country.

He isn't a saint. That's for sure.
very interesting Banjo, i have never jumped on the Mandela bandwagon, he and his wife were nothing more than thugs during their pre jail regime, don't get me wrong, I totally agree with the cause, they should have equal rights, and rule their own country, but society as it is, picks out a figurehead regardless of their past or intentions, there are planty of other better suited figureheads than Mandela thats for sure.
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Unread 04-04-2008, 08:40 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Macian View Post
very interesting Banjo, i have never jumped on the Mandela bandwagon, he and his wife were nothing more than thugs during their pre jail regime, don't get me wrong, I totally agree with the cause, they should have equal rights, and rule their own country, but society as it is, picks out a figurehead regardless of their past or intentions, there are planty of other better suited figureheads than Mandela thats for sure.
His ex-wife, Winnie Mandela was barred from Canada last year after trying to gain access to the country. She was supposed to give a speech at an university somewhere or something like that.

Thankfully, my country did the right thing. She is nothing but a cold-blooded murderer who burned her victims alive.
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Unread 04-04-2008, 08:41 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Macian View Post
very interesting Banjo, i have never jumped on the Mandela bandwagon, he and his wife were nothing more than thugs during their pre jail regime, don't get me wrong, I totally agree with the cause, they should have equal rights, and rule their own country, but society as it is, picks out a figurehead regardless of their past or intentions, there are planty of other better suited figureheads than Mandela thats for sure.
Anyway, I get what you are saying. It's just astonishing how ignorant we are to the truth.
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Unread 04-04-2008, 08:52 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Banjo View Post
Anyway, I get what you are saying. It's just astonishing how ignorant we are to the truth.

yeah I heard about that banjo, but the media want a figurehead regardless, in my opinion it takes away the strength of their cause puting unsavoury figureheads at the helm, but the world seems to roll withitsadly.
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Unread 04-04-2008, 09:19 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Banjo View Post
Yet people in Canada, the USA, United Kingdom and other countries write of Nelson Mandela in such a hagiographic way. It's disgusting. I met a man from South Africa. He is now living here with his family. He shared some quite scary stories about South Africa after Nelson Mandela took over the country.

He isn't a saint. That's for sure.
Banjo, you must be referring to the popular media and its love of certain political science instructors who champion anyone remotely unfriendly to the old Union of South Africa. Most historians I know agree with your assessment.
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Unread 04-04-2008, 09:42 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Banjo View Post
His ex-wife, Winnie Mandela was barred from Canada last year after trying to gain access to the country. She was supposed to give a speech at an university somewhere or something like that.

Thankfully, my country did the right thing. She is nothing but a cold-blooded murderer who burned her victims alive.
Correct!
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Unread 04-04-2008, 09:55 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Banjo View Post
Yet people in Canada, the USA, United Kingdom and other countries write of Nelson Mandela in such a hagiographic way. It's disgusting. I met a man from South Africa. He is now living here with his family. He shared some quite scary stories about South Africa after Nelson Mandela took over the country.

He isn't a saint. That's for sure.
The story that you posted about the white farmer is similar to what happened to my cousin's family in Angola. Sadly, it's a common event. My cousin now lives again in the Portuguese Azores (home of our common ancestor). We share family information and pictures with each other. Recently, when I asked if he had any older family photos, this is what he emailed me (English is his fourth language so it's not perfect):

"Unfortunatly we dont have any fotos is a long history.
My Grand father sold all is properties in Flores Island [Azores] and bougth a big farm in Angola Africa with the civil War we were obliged to Run away only with the clothing that we were dressing and with war all house was distroyed and burned all foto albums were there.
Is why we dont have any pictures at moment. Fortunatly we save our lifes wasn't bad."
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Unread 04-05-2008, 11:26 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Reba View Post
The story that you posted about the white farmer is similar to what happened to my cousin's family in Angola. Sadly, it's a common event. My cousin now lives again in the Portuguese Azores (home of our common ancestor). We share family information and pictures with each other. Recently, when I asked if he had any older family photos, this is what he emailed me (English is his fourth language so it's not perfect):
Yes, it's quite common... and scary. Sometimes, the MSM can be our worst enemies. When it comes to Nelson Mandela, we can never count on MSM to report the facts.

But why is that? I just find that to be quite odd. Although, they did go ga-ga over Adolf Hitler before they realized what a monster he was.
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Unread 05-30-2008, 08:47 AM   #10
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Quite interesting thread. I wasn't pay my attention about Nelson Mandela's history until I saw his history movie until release from long years from prison. A prison guard who can speak the same language as Nelson, wrote the story what he know Nelson and was experienced with him for long years. I do not see anything negative about Nelson in his history movie...

Yes, I heard bad reputation about South Africa... A lot of white african farmers were being murder and rapist by rebels but I am not sure that Nelson do something with those situtation.

I really have no opinion about Nelson but I am learning more about him in this thread here... since I learn about his history few weeks ago.
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Unread 07-21-2008, 02:10 AM   #11
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500 guests party with Mandela for his 90th

500 guests party with Mandela for his 90th

South African legend, wife also celebrate their 10th wedding anniversary

500 guests fete Mandela for his 90th - Africa - MSNBC.com

Read long 2 pages in that link.



Happy 90th Birthday to you, Nelson Mandela!


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Unread 07-21-2008, 11:19 AM   #12
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Who wants to say "Happy Birthday" to this person?

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Mandela - The "Great Statesman"

"Nelson Mandela is a symbol, an icon, one of the world's most famous statesmen, recognised and revered by all. He dines with royalty, associates with the world's great leaders and his opinion is sought and valued on all weighty matters. He has achieved an almost divine status in the world, equal to that of the Pope or the late Princess Diana."

Most people on the left of the political spectrum would agree wholeheartedly with the above quote. But they run into an unexpected problem when someone asks "why is he considered such a great statesman?"

The problem is that Mandela, apart from having a likeable personality, has achieved next to nothing in his relatively short political career which saw South Africa rapidly decline to the status of the world's most violent and crime-ridden country, and, to add to the confusion, his greatest friends are communists and dictators like Fidel Castro, Moammar Qaddafi, Yasser Arafat and Saddam Hussein. His ex-wife Winnie Mandela, whom he quickly jettisoned when it became clear she was a considerable embarassment to his political career, is a self-confessed advocate of terrorism and violence and has even committed murder.

In his public statements and speeches Mandela is always critical of the democratic countries of the west, but has nothing but praise for the remaining communist dictatorships of the world. He condemns mistakes and controversial policies of the west, but refuses to publicly condemn the genocides and brutal repression of current or former communist countries; he is supposedly a "champion of freedom and democracy", the "hero of oppressed people everywhere" but considers dictatorships like Cuba and Libya shining beacons of freedom and justice...

Perhaps this is what makes Mandela such a revered statesman - chameleon-like he can advocate democracy and freedom as the highest ideals one day and hold up Cuba or Libya as shining examples for the world to follow the next day. And his admirers do not even notice the contradiction, or worse, they agree with him...

Many of his apologists optimistically claim that Mandela may well have had "communist leanings" in his past, but that he has since put all that behind him and become a moderate in his political beliefs. They are perhaps unaware of his fulsome praise of a communist dictatorship as late as 1991 when he and Winnie went to what they called their "second home" - Cuba - to celebrate the communist revolution with Fidel Castro. In his speech Mandela said:

"Long live the Cuban Revolution. Long live comrade Fidel Castro
... Cuban internationalists have done so much for African independence, freedom, and justice. We admire the sacrifices of the Cuban people in maintaining their independence and sovereignty in the face of a vicious imperialist campaign designed to destroy the advances of the Cuban revolution. We too want to control our destiny... There can be no surrender. It is a case of freedom or death. The Cuban revolution has been a source of inspiration to all freedom-loving people."

Mandela's adulation of Castro and Cuba almost outshines that of his own admirers. In May of 1990 Mandela, visiting America, went on record, referring to Cuba:

There's one thing where that country stands out head and shoulders above the rest. That is in its love for human rights and liberty.

A week later in Libya, he lauded Qaddafi's:

Committment to the fight for peace and human rights in the world.


While in America Mandela also made public statements that amounted to support for violence and terrorism in the furtherance of political aims. In a speech in Harlem, referring to four Puerto Rican terrorists who shot and wounded five US Congressmen in 1954, he said:

We support the cause of anyone who is fighting for self-determination, and our attitude is the same, no matter who it is. I would be honored to sit on the platform with the four comrades you refer to.


Suitable "comrades" for Mandela indeed. He was himself originally incarcerated, not for his political views, but for involvement in 23 different acts of sabotage and conspiring to overthrow the government. He and his fellow conspirators of the ANC and the South African Communist Party were caught by the police while in the possession of 48,000 Soviet-made anti-personnel mines and 210,000 hand-grenades!*

It is also interesting to note that in later years Mandela was offered his freedom by none other than the South African President Botha if he would simply renounce the use of terrorism, but Mandela refused to do this.

Winnie Mandela has been equally fulsome in her praise of Communism and violence. In 1986 she was reported in Moscow's communist party newspaper Pravda as saying:

The Soviet Union is the torch-bearer for all our hopes and aspirations. We have learned and are continuing to learn resilience and bravery from the Soviet people, who are an example to us in our struggle for freedom, a model of loyalty to internationalist duty. In Soviet Russia, genuine power of the people has been transformed from dreams into reality. The land of the Soviets is the genuine friend and ally of all peoples fighting against the dark forces of world reaction.

and again at Munsieville, on April 13, 1986, she said:

With our boxes of matches and our necklaces we shall liberate this country.


referring here to her own specific brand of democratic political activity whereby anyone who opposed her would be bound hand and foot and then burned to death by means of a tyre filled with gasoline being placed around the neck and set on fire....
(More at How To Be A Good Communist by Nelson Mandela }


Not me.
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Unread 07-22-2008, 09:06 AM   #13
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Many people consider him as an African hero whom US governments doesn’t but consider him as a terrorist. Surprise, his name in US Terror Watch list was being removed because Rice urged them.

I only know that he’s a peace-maker and support human rights and anti-discrimination. Please don’t try to blame him for what and how black people did to white farmers because he did not send his people to hurt white farmer but the people themselves. Remember, black people were being treated horrible by white Africans in the past, that’s why Mandela determines to have equal rights for all races. It's people who did it, not Mandela.

Black Africans would have no rights today if Mandela is not around. It’s Mandela who freed his people from inhumane and racists.

Yes, Mandela was a freedom fighter and fight for equal rights that’s he was with the ANC. He sacrificed his own freedom for his people and country.

My hubby’s cousin & her family were in South Africa for long 15 years until around 1986/7, they escaped back to Germany. During their experience, they were very rich and have own villa, swimming pool, 3 or 4 black servants in their villa. They paid their wages very cheaply… We said nothing when we look the pictures of cousin’s villa, etc when Aunt showed the pictures to us. We all feel bad for black people because white people look down to them and treat them as “slave”. It wakes black people up and start problem…. It wakes cousin & family up and knows it would risk their life so they escaped back to Germany.

I would recommend you to rent DVD Goodbye Bafana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia its white African James Gregory who wrote his experience as prison guard where Mandela was spend long years in prison. I saw the movie at few months ago… It inspired me… I bided DVD at EBay and re-watch it… I realized now why Mandela doing. Yes, white Africans were very cruel to black Africans and have power over them and do what they want over them… no involve with black people etc. White Africans made fun of you if they see you involve with black people or befriend with black people. Black people suffer badly... until Mandela came... White Africans have no more power over black people...

His former wife Winnie was violent during Mandela's prison time...

All what I want to say is he's a good person and I respect him.



I agree with that link ...

http://blogcritics.org/archives/2008/04/10/163344.php

Long from top to bottom to 2 pages because it's an exactly what I saw on TV movies and DVD Goodbye Bafana

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Unread 07-22-2008, 11:04 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Liebling:-))) View Post
Many people consider him as an African hero whom US governments doesn’t but consider him as a terrorist. Surprise, his name in US Terror Watch list was being removed because Rice urged them.

I only know that he’s a peace-maker and support human rights and anti-discrimination. Please don’t try to blame him for what and how black people did to white farmers because he did not send his people to hurt white farmer but the people themselves. Remember, black people were being treated horrible by white Africans in the past, that’s why Mandela determines to have equal rights for all races. It's people who did it, not Mandela.

Black Africans would have no rights today if Mandela is not around. It’s Mandela who freed his people from inhumane and racists.

Yes, Mandela was a freedom fighter and fight for equal rights that’s he was with the ANC. He sacrificed his own freedom for his people and country.

My hubby’s cousin & her family were in South Africa for long 15 years until around 1986/7, they escaped back to Germany. During their experience, they were very rich and have own villa, swimming pool, 3 or 4 black servants in their villa. They paid their wages very cheaply… We said nothing when we look the pictures of cousin’s villa, etc when Aunt showed the pictures to us. We all feel bad for black people because white people look down to them and treat them as “slave”. It wakes black people up and start problem…. It wakes cousin & family up and knows it would risk their life so they escaped back to Germany.

I would recommend you to rent DVD Goodbye Bafana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia its white African James Gregory who wrote his experience as prison guard where Mandela was spend long years in prison. I saw the movie at few months ago… It inspired me… I bided DVD at EBay and re-watch it… I realized now why Mandela doing. Yes, white Africans were very cruel to black Africans and have power over them and do what they want over them… no involve with black people etc. White Africans made fun of you if they see you involve with black people or befriend with black people. Black people suffer badly... until Mandela came... White Africans have no more power over black people...

His former wife Winnie was violent during Mandela's prison time...

All what I want to say is he's a good person and I respect him.

I agree with that link ...

http://blogcritics.org/archives/2008/04/10/163344.php

Long from top to bottom to 2 pages because it's an exactly what I saw on TV movies and DVD Goodbye Bafana

Do you deny Mandela's own words that support terrorists, communism and communist dictators?
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Unread 07-22-2008, 12:47 PM   #15
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Is that the same Mandela who is strongly supported by Oprah?
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Unread 07-23-2008, 08:29 AM   #16
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Do you deny Mandela's own words that support terrorists, communism and communist dictators?
I do not ignore or deny your post when I tried to provide the positive example about him... You seem to ignore it and interest his support for dictators/communists...

Okay, here is my answer:

So? Why fingerpoint just him when you know Bush did the same thing as well? Yes he support dictators and communists. Yes he shake his hands to them... I know it's not just Mandela or Bush but many presidents from many countries as well. What's your point? I have some ex-communist friends who want to go back communist again... It doesn't mean that they are bad person who see different view as us which they beleive in their is freedom than us.

I can't stand that anyone fingerpoint / accuse them as terrorists, communists, dictators etc when they are guilty the same thing.

Anyway, I still admire Mandela for what and how he did for his people and country. Yes, he fought for freedom.

It look like that Bush is a terrorist...

"I heard somebody say, Where's Mandela?' Well, Mandela's dead because Saddam Hussein killed all the Mandelas" --- George W. Bush


Think Progress » Bush inartfully suggests Saddam killed Mandela.

Mandela still alive after embarrassing Bush remark | International | Reuters

I think they pissed on Mandela because he criticised Bush over Iraq war.

BBC NEWS | Africa | Mandela condemns US stance on Iraq

Would they (US Government) consider Mandela as their supporters/friends if he said to them that he support Iraq war ?


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Unread 07-23-2008, 02:54 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Liebling:-))) View Post
I do not ignore or deny your post when I tried to provide the positive example about him... You seem to ignore it and interest his support for dictators/communists...

Okay, here is my answer:

So? Why fingerpoint just him when you know Bush did the same thing as well? Yes he support dictators and communists. Yes he shake his hands to them... I know it's not just Mandela or Bush but many presidents from many countries as well. What's your point? I have some ex-communist friends who want to go back communist again... It doesn't mean that they are bad person who see different view as us which they beleive in their is freedom than us.
Then I guess all those Germans who fought and sacrificed their lives to fight against communist control of Germany wasted their efforts. I guess America's support for German reunification was wasted since you think communism isn't so bad.

If you say that Bush and other presidents do the same thing that Mandela did, then why do you criticize Bush and praise Mandela? You just posted that they "did the same thing."

You can't have it both ways unless you're a hypocrite.


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I can't stand that anyone fingerpoint / accuse them as terrorists, communists, dictators etc when they are guilty the same thing.
Oh, really? Even if the accusations are true?


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Would they (US Government) consider Mandela as their supporters/friends if he said to them that he support Iraq war ?
I don't think it makes any difference what Mandela thinks about the Iraq war.
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Unread 07-23-2008, 08:14 PM   #18
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I agree with Banjo and Reba regarding Mandela.

South Africa is now a place of pain and turmoil because of him. Yet this man boasts at his handiwork and is rewarded a Noble Peace Prize .... for what? The mind boggles!

I was horrified with the world's hero worship at his recent birthday celebrations! That did not sit very comfortably with me at all!


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Is that the same Mandela who is strongly supported by Oprah?

Yes, Shel ... he is Oprah's cherished friend! *smh*
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Unread 07-23-2008, 10:17 PM   #19
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...Yet this man boasts at his handiwork and is rewarded a Noble Peace Prize .... for what? The mind boggles!
Yasser Arafat got a Nobel Peace Prize, too--what's that tell you?
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Unread 07-23-2008, 10:19 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Matilda View Post
I agree with Banjo and Reba regarding Mandela.

South Africa is now a place of pain and turmoil because of him. Yet this man boasts at his handiwork and is rewarded a Noble Peace Prize .... for what? The mind boggles!

I was horrified with the world's hero worship at his recent birthday celebrations! That did not sit very comfortably with me at all!





Yes, Shel ... he is Oprah's cherished friend! *smh*
I was blind...seriously blind. Ugh!

I really need to educate myself on politics.
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Unread 07-23-2008, 11:20 PM   #21
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Yasser Arafat got a Nobel Peace Prize, too--what's that tell you?
I didn't know that, Reba.

Whatever happened to choosing worthy aspirants? *smh*
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Unread 07-25-2008, 08:42 AM   #22
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I am total appalled over your comment here.

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reba View Post
Then I guess all those Germans who fought and sacrificed their lives to fight against communist control of Germany wasted their efforts.
Huh? What is this issue do with this thread here ?

Quote:
I guess America's support for German reunification was wasted since you think communism isn't so bad.
Huh? Where have I say that communism is not bad? It doesn't mean that I support communism because I respect former communist friends' view over their hometown in East Germany before Berlin Wall pulled down in 1990s.

Quote:
If you say that Bush and other presidents do the same thing that Mandela did, then why do you criticize Bush and praise Mandela? You just posted that they "did the same thing."

You can't have it both ways unless you're a hypocrite.
Huh?

Okay let me get the fact straight...

Did Mandela send his soliders to attack other countries ?

Did Mandela label Bush as a terrorist because he freed Iraqis from Saddam Hussein ?

Why have Bush label Mandela as a terrorist because he freed his people from racist and discrimination (apartheid) when he is guilty the same thing is "free Iraqi from Saddam"...?

Mandela expressed his support to Bush fully soon after 9/11 and then he and Bush fall out because Mandela was against Iraq war.... As what the author of your article claimed that Mandela support Saddam Hussein... If it's true which mean is Mandela would send his soliders to support Iraq war against US but he didn't. It mean that the author who wrote the article, you posted is a false.

Bush on Mandela for not support him on Iraq war... He made very stupid speech and make Mandela look bad... Mandela dead... next day newspaper comes... Mandela is still alive... It make Bush look fool himself.


SOUTH AFRICA'S NEW ERA;
In Phone Call, Bush Invites Mandela to Visit Him
LEAD: President Bush rejoiced today over the freedom of Nelson Mandela, spoke to him by telephone and invited the anti-apartheid leader to visit the White House.

It was before 9/11 - Bush impressed wonderful about Mandela...after 9/11, he was label as a terrorist and make him look bad because he was against Iraq war..

SOUTH AFRICA'S NEW ERA; In Phone Call, Bush Invites Mandela to Visit Him - New York Times

Bush delivers unprecedented snub to Mandela in Africa visit
Bush delivers unprecedented snub to Mandela in Africa visit | Independent, The (London) | Find Articles at BNET

Nelson Mandela: The U.S.A. Is a Threat to World Peace
In a rare interview, the South African demands that George W. Bush win United Nations support before attacking Iraq


Nelson Mandela: The U.S.A. Is a Threat to World Peace - More Newsweek International - MSNBC.com


If you deny it then you're a hypocrite


Quote:
........ praise Mandela?
Yes I praise Mandela for free his people from racist and discrimination against Apartheid. Without him, Black Africans would have no equal rights as white Africans if Mandela did not end Apartheid. Yes, he deserves a Nobel Peace Prize for fight for long years to end Apartheid against racist and discrimination. You would call yourself as a racist if you disagree what and how Mandela did for his country to end Apartheid.

Quote:
Oh, really? Even if the accusations are true?
See above...

Really? I'm surprise that you didn't know that he met communists and dictators.

Do you remember that US Government support for Saddam Hussein during the Iraq-Iran war?

If your answer is yes, should we call US Government as a terrorist for support Saddam Hussein against Iran ? I just can't beleive that Mandela was being labeled as a terrorist by US Government for sacrificed his own freedom for his people and country for long 27 years against racist and discrimination...

I can see if anyone who disagrees with Bush for Iraq war then automaticially labeled as a terrorist.

This is a disgusting.




Quote:
I don't think it makes any difference what Mandela thinks about the Iraq war.
If you deny it then you're a hypocrite
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Unread 07-25-2008, 08:52 AM   #23
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[QUOTE=Liebling:-)));1044186]I am total appalled over your comment here.

Quote:

Huh? What is this issue do with this thread here ?



Huh? Where have I say that communism is not bad? It doesn't mean that I support communism because I respect former communist friends' view over their hometown in East Germany before Berlin Wall pulled down in 1990s.



Huh?

Okay let me get the fact straight...

Did Mandela send his soliders to attack other countries ?

Did Mandela label Bush as a terrorist because he freed Iraqis from Saddam Hussein ?

Why have Bush label Mandela as a terrorist because he freed his people from racist and discrimination (apartheid) when he is guilty the same thing is "free Iraqi from Saddam"...?

Mandela expressed his support to Bush fully soon after 9/11 and then he and Bush fall out because Mandela was against Iraq war.... As what the author of your article claimed that Mandela support Saddam Hussein... If it's true which mean is Mandela would send his soliders to support Iraq war against US but he didn't. It mean that the author who wrote the article, you posted is a false.

Bush on Mandela for not support him on Iraq war... He made very stupid speech and make Mandela look bad... Mandela dead... next day newspaper comes... Mandela is still alive... It make Bush look fool himself.


SOUTH AFRICA'S NEW ERA;
In Phone Call, Bush Invites Mandela to Visit Him
LEAD: President Bush rejoiced today over the freedom of Nelson Mandela, spoke to him by telephone and invited the anti-apartheid leader to visit the White House.

It was before 9/11 - Bush impressed wonderful about Mandela...after 9/11, he was label as a terrorist and make him look bad because he was against Iraq war..

SOUTH AFRICA'S NEW ERA; In Phone Call, Bush Invites Mandela to Visit Him - New York Times

Bush delivers unprecedented snub to Mandela in Africa visit
Bush delivers unprecedented snub to Mandela in Africa visit | Independent, The (London) | Find Articles at BNET

Nelson Mandela: The U.S.A. Is a Threat to World Peace
In a rare interview, the South African demands that George W. Bush win United Nations support before attacking Iraq


Nelson Mandela: The U.S.A. Is a Threat to World Peace - More Newsweek International - MSNBC.com


If you deny it then you're a hypocrite




Yes I praise Mandela for free his people from racist and discrimination against Apartheid. Without him, Black Africans would have no equal rights as white Africans if Mandela did not end Apartheid. Yes, he deserves a Nobel Peace Prize for fight for long years to end Apartheid against racist and discrimination. You would call yourself as a racist if you disagree what and how Mandela did for his country to end Apartheid.



See above...

Really? I'm surprise that you didn't know that he met communists and dictators.

Do you remember that US Government support for Saddam Hussein during the Iraq-Iran war?

If your answer is yes, should we call US Government as a terrorist for support Saddam Hussein against Iran ? I just can't beleive that Mandela was being labeled as a terrorist by US Government for sacrificed his own freedom for his people and country for long 27 years against racist and discrimination...

I can see if anyone who disagrees with Bush for Iraq war then automaticially labeled as a terrorist.

This is a disgusting.






If you deny it then you're a hypocrite
I gotta agreed with you here.
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Unread 07-25-2008, 09:03 AM   #24
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matilda View Post
I agree with Banjo and Reba regarding Mandela.

South Africa is now a place of pain and turmoil because of him. Yet this man boasts at his handiwork and is rewarded a Noble Peace Prize .... for what? The mind boggles!

I was horrified with the world's hero worship at his recent birthday celebrations! That did not sit very comfortably with me at all!
I find sad that someone label a great man as a terrorist. Before he end Apartheid, they have everything for white people. Can you image what if USA was ruled by black people where the white people can't vote, not even ride a bus, etc. no beach for black people, etc. black people were being beat up and burnt up alive by white people... that's why Mandela want to end it. I would consider anyone as a racist if anyone support Apartheid for white people only against Mandela and labeled him as a terrorist. Mandela fought for equal rights for all races. (read my previous posts).

No, Mandela did not solve anything because he was in jail. The country got out of it by itself.

Yes, Mandela deserved Noble Peace Prize for free black people from racist and discrimination.


I would recommend you to rent a DVD Goodbye Bafana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia







Quote:
Yes, Shel ... he is Oprah's cherished friend! *smh*
Huh? Is what you mean mandela and Oprah - Google Bilder

Google-Ergebnis für http://www.achievement.org/achievers/win0/large/win0-022.jpg

Why?


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Unread 07-25-2008, 09:19 AM   #25
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South Africa under apartheid

South Africa under apartheid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Unread 03-05-2009, 11:31 PM   #26
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Mandela grandson enters politics

Mandela grandson enters politics

The grandson of South Africa's former President Nelson Mandela is entering politics ahead of April's elections.

The governing African National Congress says Mandla Mandela is on its list of parliamentary candidates.

The elections are set to be the most interesting since Mr Mandela became president in 1994, ending apartheid.

A new opposition party - the Congress of the People (Cope) - was formed in December by dissidents unhappy with Jacob Zuma's leadership of the ANC.

On Wednesday, the most high-profile defector from the ANC - former Deputy President Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka - appeared at a Cope meeting.

It was her first appearance after much speculation about her role in the breakaway party.

Obviously his family has the legacy of Nelson Mandela... so certainly there will be a lot of expectations of him

ANC spokesman Brian Sokutu


How ANC came to split

She resigned as deputy president soon after Thabo Mbeki was sacked as the country's president last September, after a fall-out with Mr Zuma.

Mandla Mandela is a businessman with ties to Mr Zuma, who is the front-runner to become president.

"Obviously his family has the legacy of Nelson Mandela, the world renowned icon of our struggle, so certainly there will be a lot of expectations of him," ANC spokesman Brian Sokutu said.

Mr Zuma has remained popular despite the shadow of corruption hanging over him.

Correspondents say Cope could win enough votes to deny the ANC a two-thirds majority in parliament, needed to change the constitution.

BBC NEWS | Africa | Mandela grandson enters politics
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Unread 03-06-2009, 08:33 AM   #27
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[quote=Liebling:-)));1044194]
Quote:

[FONT="Century Gothic"][COLOR="Blue"]I find sad that someone label a great man as a terrorist. Before he end Apartheid, they have everything for white people. Can you image what if USA was ruled by black people where the white people can't vote, not even ride a bus, etc. no beach for black people, etc. black people were being beat up and burnt up alive by white people... that's why Mandela want to end it. I would consider anyone as a racist if anyone support Apartheid for white people only against Mandela and labeled him as a terrorist. Mandela fought for equal rights for all races. (read my previous posts).

No, Mandela did not solve anything because he was in jail. The country got out of it by itself.

Yes, Mandela deserved Noble Peace Prize for free black people from racist and discrimination.
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Unread 03-06-2009, 08:56 AM   #28
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[quote=society's_child;1274489]
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Originally Posted by Liebling:-))) View Post

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Unread 03-06-2009, 09:26 AM   #29
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and society's_child & Jillio.
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Unread 03-06-2009, 11:08 AM   #30
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South Africa is a hellhole these days. Nobody in their right mind would go there. It's amazing how people go ga-ga over Mandela while turning a blind eye to what is going on in that country these days. It is much, much worse than it used to be.

South Africa was handed over to a different person other than Mandela years ago and he's not any better either. It's not getting any better either.
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