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Unread 12-26-2007, 11:30 AM   #1
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Thumbs down Other people perspective AGAINST C.I. for the Deaf children

I agree with this vlog alot !!

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Unread 12-26-2007, 11:52 AM   #2
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I've seen this a couple of times, and the vlogger makes some very good points.
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Unread 12-26-2007, 12:56 PM   #3
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I'm sorry but I disagree with this video, first I would like to add it wouldnt matter whether its a hearing aid or a cochlear implants you still have to take it off when you're in the water so this doesn't make any difference and second, the only reason why many deaf people choose to have cochlear implants is because they're no longer benefit these hearing aids, wants to hear more and I don't have anything against that.

The video keep stopping and playing, so I didn't get a chance to view the whole video.
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Unread 12-26-2007, 03:33 PM   #4
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sorry to say I am not against C.I. because Hearing aid don't help much anymore like it used to for me. But I still take it off when I go swimming, shower and go sleep. It just only a part of the C.I. can be removed just like wearing hearing aid. If it was to do harm, it would have been in the news or the newspaper nation wide about the danger of hearing aids or C.I. But I Don't see the proof. Unless the children get mengtisintis shots they are safe with C.I. so without the shot then that when the risks happens. Need to read the health informations before you blame on C.I. :-)
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Unread 12-26-2007, 04:43 PM   #5
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I can't see that this video goes against of your viewpoint in this thread, Angel and GarnetTigerMom? My impression is that they say it's nothing wrong with CI itself, but the oral philosophy often used with it, and how it is used to deprive children of language and identity?
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Unread 12-26-2007, 04:49 PM   #6
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I can't see that this video goes against of your viewpoint in this thread, Angel and GarnetTigerMom? My impression is that they say it's nothing wrong with CI itself, but the oral philosophy often used with it, and how it is used to deprive children of language and identity?
Nods. You raise a good point there, Flip.
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Unread 12-26-2007, 05:15 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by flip View Post
I can't see that this video goes against of your viewpoint in this thread, Angel and GarnetTigerMom? My impression is that they say it's nothing wrong with CI itself, but the oral philosophy often used with it, and how it is used to deprive children of language and identity?
Very well put!
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Unread 12-26-2007, 05:51 PM   #8
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For some reason the video isn't working for me, Anyone has this problem?
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Unread 12-26-2007, 06:32 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by GarnetTigerMom View Post
sorry to say I am not against C.I. because Hearing aid don't help much anymore like it used to for me. But I still take it off when I go swimming, shower and go sleep. It just only a part of the C.I. can be removed just like wearing hearing aid. If it was to do harm, it would have been in the news or the newspaper nation wide about the danger of hearing aids or C.I. But I Don't see the proof. Unless the children get mengtisintis shots they are safe with C.I. so without the shot then that when the risks happens. Need to read the health informations before you blame on C.I. :-)
good posting
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Unread 12-26-2007, 06:44 PM   #10
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Get the latest flash player;
Adobe - Adobe Flash Player for those who were having problem viewing the video. considering that the video is flash based.
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Unread 12-26-2007, 06:54 PM   #11
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I can't see that this video goes against of your viewpoint in this thread, Angel and GarnetTigerMom? My impression is that they say it's nothing wrong with CI itself, but the oral philosophy often used with it, and how it is used to deprive children of language and identity?
Um Flip? did you read the bottom of my post? I said I did not watch the entire video because it kept stopping and playing. second, I watch the first part of the video where the guy was signing about CI, he was saying he heard his friend telling him that he has to wear a hat when hes goes out in the rain, or can not go swimming.
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Unread 12-26-2007, 07:44 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by flip View Post
I can't see that this video goes against of your viewpoint in this thread, Angel and GarnetTigerMom? My impression is that they say it's nothing wrong with CI itself, but the oral philosophy often used with it, and how it is used to deprive children of language and identity?
That's the way I saw it, too, flip. That's why7 I said that he had some good points. Maybe when Angel and GarnetTigerMom have been able to watch the whole video, they will see that, too. They were only to see part of his message.
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Unread 12-26-2007, 09:33 PM   #13
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I'm confused about something - it said edited 2007? They talked about Carter who was the first implantee - so I was thinking the 80's.

I finally got to see the whole thing. I lost out and had to fix it. I noticed a few points.
1. The term hearing impaired was used.
2. Showed a body processor when they were explaining the CIs. Technology has changed
3. At first it talks about natural sound - yes when you first get activated the sound is robotic, but changes. Sounds does not stay like that
4. M.J. Bienvenu - several points upset me
a. compared implants to the Holocaust's
b. robbed of self-esteem
c. failure in hearing world
5. The two parents who were interviewed, the one bill Campbell who has a son in an ASL program did not sign during interview.
6. The other parent brought up that each program said they are the best and in the end the parents have to choose. He also talked about you have to know which way your child is gearing too.
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Unread 12-26-2007, 10:34 PM   #14
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I see it came from the now defunct cable program called 'Deaf Mosaic' - 1985 to 1999. This guy taped it back then and converted it so he can post it. I will get back here later on once my dial-up load it up. It is going to take hours as it is almost 30 minutes long.
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Unread 12-27-2007, 05:27 AM   #15
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Um Flip? did you read the bottom of my post? I said I did not watch the entire video because it kept stopping and playing. second, I watch the first part of the video where the guy was signing about CI, he was saying he heard his friend telling him that he has to wear a hat when hes goes out in the rain, or can not go swimming.
Sure, I noticed you said you did not watch the whole video! Don't take my post as an accusation, I was just curious if perhaps I interpreted the message wrong in this video as I got another impression.

There was different perspectives presented through the clip, with a conclusion in the end. Great clip and almost felt like I was on AD when seeing the arguments
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Unread 12-27-2007, 09:55 AM   #16
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I'm sorry but I disagree with this video, first I would like to add it wouldnt matter whether its a hearing aid or a cochlear implants you still have to take it off when you're in the water so this doesn't make any difference and second, the only reason why many deaf people choose to have cochlear implants is because they're no longer benefit these hearing aids, wants to hear more and I don't have anything against that.

The video keep stopping and playing, so I didn't get a chance to view the whole video.

Think about the hearing aid device outside of your body. Imagine cochlear implants inside the body with those innocence Deaf children. They did not ask for it.

I do respect adults who make their own decision. Otherwise, I am very against parents who make their decision for their children. If my parent did this to me when I was 18 months old because they donít accept me for who I am. I would be piss off at my parents because they did not appreciate what God gave them a beautiful baby healthy and happy baby. I am glad that my parents sent me to Deaf school whole of my life. I started school at my 3 years old, commute home and school everyday.

Medical society is horrible pressure on the parents, they have not any chance second option to meet reality Deaf Community explore first place before they make the right final decision.
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Unread 12-27-2007, 10:01 AM   #17
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Thumbs up

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Vallee- M.J. Bienvenu - several points upset me
I love M.J. Bienvenu's perspective !!! I always enjoyed to seeing her at several at the Deaf conference.
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Unread 12-27-2007, 10:07 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by flip View Post
Sure, I noticed you said you did not watch the whole video! Don't take my post as an accusation, I was just curious if perhaps I interpreted the message wrong in this video as I got another impression.

There was different perspectives presented through the clip, with a conclusion in the end. Great clip and almost felt like I was on AD when seeing the arguments

Ah, I understand what you mean now, sorry.
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Unread 12-27-2007, 10:17 AM   #19
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Kalista,

I already know where you stand on deaf children with CI, but unfortunately I believe in both parents and individual choice, I'm still uncomfortable seeing babies being implanted, I think they should wait until the child is 2 or 3.
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Unread 12-27-2007, 10:40 AM   #20
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Think about the hearing aid device outside of your body. Imagine cochlear implants inside the body with those innocence Deaf children. They did not ask for it.

I do respect adults who make their own decision. Otherwise, I am very against parents who make their decision for their children. If my parent did this to me when I was 18 months old because they donít accept me for who I am. I would be piss off at my parents because they did not appreciate what God gave them a beautiful baby healthy and happy baby. I am glad that my parents sent me to Deaf school whole of my life. I started school at my 3 years old, commute home and school everyday.

Medical society is horrible pressure on the parents, they have not any chance second option to meet reality Deaf Community explore first place before they make the right final decision.
Sorry, I mistyped... It should be "exposure language".
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Unread 12-28-2007, 07:33 PM   #21
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I love M.J. Bienvenu's perspective !!! I always enjoyed to seeing her at several at the Deaf conference.
I agree...I love her perspective. She was one of my ASL instructors at Gally..I love her lectures on the Deaf culture part of my classes. I learned a lot from her.
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Unread 12-28-2007, 09:05 PM   #22
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I agree...I love her perspective. She was one of my ASL instructors at Gally..I love her lectures on the Deaf culture part of my classes. I learned a lot from her.
4. M.J. Bienvenu - several points upset me
a. compared implants to the Holocaust's
b. robbed of self-esteem
c. failure in hearing world

I only have problem with one word, Holocaust. My great grandfather and my grandfather left Nazi Germany. I had family die during the Holocaust, so it is just the use of the word.

I don't want to get into an arguement, just please respect the fact that I grew up hearing first hand Holocaust accounts.
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Unread 12-28-2007, 09:48 PM   #23
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vallee, I can undy being upset about your first point. It does seem like it's belittling the Holocaust by saying CI is basicly a Holocaust for deaf kids.
Hey, if hearing aids did not end deaf culture, there's NO reason whatsoever why CIs would.
Her other points are very valid. .....I mean just b/c a kid has oral skills, it doesn't mean that they are gonna be a sucess in the hearing world. Even many kids who are good at English have social emotional issues.
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Unread 12-28-2007, 11:42 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by vallee View Post
4. M.J. Bienvenu - several points upset me
a. compared implants to the Holocaust's
b. robbed of self-esteem
c. failure in hearing world

I only have problem with one word, Holocaust. My great grandfather and my grandfather left Nazi Germany. I had family die during the Holocaust, so it is just the use of the word.

I don't want to get into an arguement, just please respect the fact that I grew up hearing first hand Holocaust accounts.
I understand how you feel, I don't like all negative labels on anyone just because one doesn't like cochlear implants.

You got to remember that we (deafies) were labeled too in negatives-- pronounced us "deaf and dumb", How we were incapable of being taught, of learning, and how we don't have any reasonable thinking skills.
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Unread 12-29-2007, 12:08 AM   #25
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Ok I was able to sit down long enough without being interrupted to watch the whole video.

Here is my take...

I agree with the comments that CIs are a valuable tool but that it does not give deaf children language nor self-esteem.

I agree that all deaf children regardless of having CIs or not should be exposed to Deaf culture, other deaf children and Deaf adults.

What really bothered me was what the mother had said about her daughter who had been implanted. She said without her implants, she wouldnt be on the swim team and etc etc. That is a skewed perspective. Many deaf people have been able to do all those things her daughter can do WITHOUT an implant. I am a perfect example of one.

I really love the father of the non-implanted boy's view. He even admitted that sometimes Deaf adults know how to meet his child's needs better than he does. For that, I respect him cuz he is not claiming to be an expert. He showed respect for Deaf culture and the members' input and advice. That is impressive cuz rarely u see that.

This Vlog has made many good points.
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Unread 12-29-2007, 12:10 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by vallee View Post
4. M.J. Bienvenu - several points upset me
a. compared implants to the Holocaust's
b. robbed of self-esteem
c. failure in hearing world

I only have problem with one word, Holocaust. My great grandfather and my grandfather left Nazi Germany. I had family die during the Holocaust, so it is just the use of the word.

I don't want to get into an arguement, just please respect the fact that I grew up hearing first hand Holocaust accounts.
I havent said anything about the Holocaust so how is my comment to Kalista related to the Holocaust? All I was just explaining my experiences of being her student that was all.

However, about sel-esteem and failure in the hearing world..I do agree with her to a degree.
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Unread 12-29-2007, 12:54 AM   #27
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4. M.J. Bienvenu - several points upset me
a. compared implants to the Holocaust's
b. robbed of self-esteem
c. failure in hearing world

I only have problem with one word, Holocaust. My great grandfather and my grandfather left Nazi Germany. I had family die during the Holocaust, so it is just the use of the word.

I don't want to get into an arguement, just please respect the fact that I grew up hearing first hand Holocaust accounts.
I understand your perspective of hearing first hand accounts of the Holocaust. My mother was Jewish, and of German descent. I met many Holocaust survivors during my childhood, as well as those who lost loved ones to this genocide. And I am forever aware of the fact that, even though my father was not Jewish, I am considered to be Jewish by descent because my mother was Jewish, and bloodlines are determined matilinerally. Likewise, my son is considered to be Jewish because I am considered to be Jewish. My son is also deaf. Had we been alive in Germany during the years of the Holocaust, neither one of us would have had much of a chance of survival...me because of my Jewish descent, and my son for 2 reasons....Jewish descent and deafness. One or the other would have been enough to put his life at risk. Even Gentiles with disabilities were subjected to Hitler's attempts to create a pure race.

However, I do agree with M.J.'s analogy of comparing CI to the Holocaust. One can be seen as genocide; the other as ethnocide. And I am not offended in the least by her comparison, nor do I believe my Jewish relatives would be offended. She has in no way discounted the horror of the Holocaust, but has only used it to point out that it can easily happen again under a different guise...technology.
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Unread 12-29-2007, 02:33 AM   #28
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Huh? Jillo, I thought you WEREN'T against CIs. It's ORALISM that is the REAL ethnocide. (oh kids don't "need" sign, and they can just assimulate into the hearing world)
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Unread 12-29-2007, 02:44 AM   #29
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Huh? Jillo, I thought you WEREN'T against CIs. It's ORALISM that is the REAL ethnocide. (oh kids don't "need" sign, and they can just assimulate into the hearing world)
I think it's because so many people who implant CIs in their children have no intention of letting their child learn sign or have contact with other deaf. I've seen quite a few posts from Parents with children who have CIs state that they're glad their child isn't part of the Deaf community.

However, it's up to Jillio to clarify her post.
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Unread 12-29-2007, 11:41 AM   #30
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Huh? Jillo, I thought you WEREN'T against CIs. It's ORALISM that is the REAL ethnocide. (oh kids don't "need" sign, and they can just assimulate into the hearing world)
I am not against CIs, but that doesn't mean that I can't see the validity in M.J.'s analogy. And, I agree that oralism is the true culprit, and CI technology is a direct outgrowth of the the audist attitude that hearing is superior and preferable to deaf, and thus the increased push toward oralism that has been positively correlated with implantation.
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