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Unread 01-30-2007, 04:12 AM   #1
Opal
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Tim become Kim at the age of 14!!

FOXNews.com - 12-Year-Old Boy Becomes 14-Year-Old Girl, World's Youngest Sex Change Patient - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News

A 12-year-old German boy who insisted he was a girl trapped in a boy's body convinced his parents that something had to be done, so they agreed to allow him to receive a series of hormone injections, making him the youngest sex-change patient in the world, according to published reports Monday.

Now 14, the boy, who went by the name Tim, has now become Kim – a blue-eyed blonde with a growing bust line who is allowed to wear make-up at weekends.

Kim has no boyfriends at present but her parents say she is interested in what, now, is the opposite sex.

Her treatment, which has cost more than $40,000, is being funded by German taxpayers.

Psychiatrists treating her say she was an ‘exceptional case – a person clearly in the wrong body’, even though the decision to grant her wishes when she was so young is still the subject of intense debate.

Her identity and medical insurance cards have been changed to her new name and sex.

***********************************************
Girl of 14 who was a boy until she was 12
By ALLAN HALL

Last updated at 16:29pm on 29th January 2007

Even at the age of two, Tim insisted he was a girl trapped in a boy’s body.

And when puberty began to approach at the age of 12, he convinced his parents that something had to be done.

With their agreement, he became the youngest sex-change patient in the world, receiving hormone injections which arrested his male development.

Now, at 14, Tim has become Kim – a blue-eyed blonde with a growing bust line who is allowed to wear make-up at weekends.

She has no boyfriends at present but her parents say she is interested in what, now, is the opposite sex.

Her treatment, which has cost £18,000 so far, is being funded by the German taxpayer.

Psychiatrists treating her say she was an ‘exceptional case – a person clearly in the wrong body’, even though the decision to grant her wishes when she was so young is still the subject of intense debate.

Her identity and medical insurance cards have been changed to her new name and sex.

But she has not been placed at a different school in case of taunting from children who knew her as him in days gone by because, according to her parents, ‘her friends fully accept her as she is’.

She dresses in trendy clothes and told Germany’s Stern magazine that she ‘dreams of moving to Paris to become a fashion designer’.

The family’s full identity has not been made public. But Kim’s father, known as Lutz P, told Stern that as a child, Tim liked to play with Barbie dolls, enjoyed wearing dresses and, from the age of two, insisted that he was a girl.

‘We saw Kim as a girl, but not as a problem. Our life was surprisingly normal.’

Kim reacted badly to the first signs of puberty, he said.

‘At that stage we realised that she was terrified of growing facial hair and her voice breaking.’

Kim’s parents consulted psychiatrists across Germany.

Some condemned their support of their child’s desire to undergo a sex change, or suggested that she be kept under observation in a closed psychiatric ward.

But others agreed that the child should receive therapy, because growing up to be a man would have damaged her personality.

Dr Bern Meyenburg, the head of a clinic for children and adolescents with identity disturbances at Frankfurt University, concluded that the child was serious.

He wrote in his diagnosis: ‘Kim is a mentally well-developed child who appears happy and balanced.

‘There is no doubt of the determined wish, which was already detectable since early childhood. It would have been very wrong to let Kim grow up to be a man.

‘It is rare to have such a clear-cut case.’

The sex change will not become complete for another four years because while German law does not forbid hormone treatment for minors, they must be 18 before gender-transforming surgery can be carried out.

Dr Achim Wuesthof, who is treating Kim at a clinic in Hamburg, said: ‘To the best of my knowledge, Kim is the youngest sex-change patient in the world.

‘Imagine a man who suddenly starts growing breasts or a woman who starts growing a beard against their will – that is how Kim and people like her experience puberty.’

The UK’s youngest sex-change patient was Oliver Wheadon, from Wigton, Cumbria. He was 17 when he was granted the operation on the NHS four years ago and is now known as Angel Paris- Jordan.


Girl of 14 who was a boy until she was 12 | the Daily Mail
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Unread 01-30-2007, 04:35 AM   #2
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wow, Kim is very lucky to have open mind and understanding parents who fulfill Kim's wish. I'm really happy for Kim who desire to become who really she is. Its good to know that everyone, she knows before she was he, accept what she is.

The same example what I fulfill my 2nd son's wish for correct his ears with surgery. He asked for our support last month. Sure, we are happy to fulfill his wish.
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Unread 01-30-2007, 06:11 AM   #3
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Wow, cool. Thats great that he have such open-minded parents that they willing to let him to change to become a girl. I hope he made the right decision cos when he gets older, maybe feel fool or what. All the best for girl to feel girly stuff to come.
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Unread 01-30-2007, 08:03 AM   #4
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at the age of 12 years old?....
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Unread 01-30-2007, 09:25 AM   #5
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~ 12 yrs old.. whoa.. This child is very open mind and willing open heart to their parent's open and understanding... Approve their child have undergo surgery change sex.

Amazing!

But.... as my children.. "Big No" Too Scary out there if happened when grow up oh oppiSe, I got grow hairy on the chest.. Mommy, Change my mind, go back sex again.. because got grow hairy chest.. That mean I'm not trapped girl inside me anymore. I got hormones.

Careful..

I've seen the cases and seen on T.V. under TLC
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Unread 01-30-2007, 09:28 AM   #6
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I don't think that this girl is going to change her mind and go back to her orgingal sex. She's lucky to have parents so open minded.
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Unread 01-30-2007, 11:32 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liebling:-))) View Post
wow, Kim is very lucky to have open mind and understanding parents who fulfill Kim's wish. I'm really happy for Kim who desire to become who really she is. Its good to know that everyone, she knows before she was he, accept what she is.

The same example what I fulfill my 2nd son's wish for correct his ears with surgery. He asked for our support last month. Sure, we are happy to fulfill his wish.
I don't think an ear nip and tuck is on the same psychological, emotional, physiological, and sociological level as a sex change, not to mention the financial and legal aspects of the change.
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Unread 01-30-2007, 11:36 AM   #8
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at the age of 12 years old?....
I hope this child doesn't change her (his?) mind in 10 or 20 years.
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Unread 01-30-2007, 11:47 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Opal View Post
... he became the youngest sex-change patient in the world, receiving hormone injections which arrested his male development.

...Her identity and medical insurance cards have been changed to her new name and sex.

...The sex change will not become complete for another four years because while German law does not forbid hormone treatment for minors, they must be 18 before gender-transforming surgery can be carried out. ...
If the child hasn't yet had the surgery, why did they issue new ID and insurance cards with the new sex? "Kim's" body hasn't been fully "changed" yet so the sex on the body and the sex on the cards don't yet match. Is that legal? Also, I didn't read in the story anything about the child's chromosomes. Does the child have male or female chromosomes?
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Unread 01-30-2007, 01:30 PM   #10
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Reba? Is that what you're talking about?

Hermaphrodite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Last edited by mecooncat; 01-30-2007 at 01:31 PM. Reason: add few words
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Unread 01-30-2007, 01:55 PM   #11
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Reba? Is that what you're talking about?

Hermaphrodite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I know what a hermaphrodite is but I don't think that is what this child is. From what I read, this child was born anatomically a male (which would include male chromosomes), but felt psychologically like a female. (Unless there is more to this story that I haven't yet seen.) That's why I'm asking the question about the chromosomes. The posted story didn't mention it, so I'm trying to get more facts about the situation.
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Unread 01-30-2007, 04:05 PM   #12
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I'm proud of Kim..
I support her and Transexual/transgender Rights..
Everyone should become true themself..If not then they wont be happy for rest of their life!
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Unread 01-30-2007, 06:03 PM   #13
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I hope this child doesn't change her (his?) mind in 10 or 20 years.
I know..it is so risky at that age cuz they are not usually pychologically nor emotionally mature for such a life-changing event. If my daughter wanted to be a man at the age of 14, I would tell her to wait until she is 18 but I would be worried that she will have emotional damage from being forced to stay a woman for much longer. It can become very sticky.
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Unread 01-31-2007, 01:45 AM   #14
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Quote:
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I hope this child doesn't change her (his?) mind in 10 or 20 years.

Yeah I was just thinking the same as you were.....Goodness she's so young to make this kind of decision....I just hope it was the right one...

If my child wanted a tattoo at the age of 12, it would be a big NO NO!! I really don't care if people call me a closed minder, I rather them to wait until they're older....wellll I hope it's a good tattoo not bloody or scary ones... but for :ahem: sexually change, heck NO!
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Unread 01-31-2007, 05:48 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by GalaxyAngel;715755
But.... as my children.. "Big No" Too Scary out there [B
if[/B] happened when grow up oh oppiSe, I got grow hairy on the chest.. Mommy, Change my mind, go back sex again.. because got grow hairy chest.. That mean I'm not trapped girl inside me anymore. I got hormones.
No, Kim won't have it because she have female hormone in her body.
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Unread 01-31-2007, 05:55 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Reba View Post
If the child hasn't yet had the surgery, why did they issue new ID and insurance cards with the new sex? "Kim's" body hasn't been fully "changed" yet so the sex on the body and the sex on the cards don't yet match. Is that legal? Also, I didn't read in the story anything about the child's chromosomes. Does the child have male or female chromosomes?
Good point!

I read as much the same as you, I cannot understand why!
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Unread 01-31-2007, 06:01 AM   #17
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For me he/she is too young to have this operation.

If he/she is my child, I won't support the operation until 18th Birthday, otherwise I would feel responsible if she/he changed mind afterward!

What if he realised being woman is not what he is looking for, and want to reverse as a male again?

I remember a French man received an artificial hand from donor, as he lost his through accident, and he wasn't happy with it, and want it to be removed again through surgery, as he thought having two hands would make his life easier but it don't work for him, the doctors wasn't impressed with him!!
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Unread 01-31-2007, 06:05 AM   #18
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I don't think that this girl is going to change her mind and go back to her orgingal sex. She's lucky to have parents so open minded.
Yes, that's right...

babies/toddlers who plays with dolls/cars or dress as lady or man are normal but soon before they hit puberty is not okay. The teenagers who have puberty will be unhappy to being himself/herself to end to damage their good personality because they don't know who they really are.

Yes, Kim's very lucky to have the parents like this who focus to help her until there're 100% absolutely with no doubt. I would prefer Kim enjoy herself in experience of puberty time than deny her wish and then end unhappy and suffer.

I know a boy at school, we grow up together at school. He like to dress woman clothes and play the doll when he was a little boy in doll house with us. During puberity time, he was being bullied by boys because of this. It ends him crying and unhappy.... His movement like girl... He was unpopular at school...
Many years later, my hubby & I visited at my school at 175th anniversary festival in 1992. We met him there... He become "She"... She look so beautiful and happy. Of course he wear make up and dress like woman but not transexual yet. Everyone talked to "her" and realized how cruel they was to "her" in the past... and accept what I don't know what happened with him now because I haven't see her since 1992. Good thing is that he didn't kill himself at puberty time...
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Unread 01-31-2007, 06:13 AM   #19
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I don't think an ear nip and tuck is on the same psychological, emotional, physiological, and sociological level as a sex change, not to mention the financial and legal aspects of the change.
Oh yes... they are the same because ear belongs part of body.

If I deny to fulfil his wish to have ear surgery until he is 18 years old then he will suffer physcial emotional in puberty/teenage time. No way, I prefer to let him to have ear surgery soon before he hit puberty...


Quote:
Planning For Surgery
Most surgeons recommend that parents stay alert to their child's feelings about protruding ears; don't insist on the surgery until your child wants the change. Children who feel uncomfortable about their ears and want the surgery are generally more cooperative during the process and happier with the outcome.
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Unread 01-31-2007, 06:42 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Reba View Post
If the child hasn't yet had the surgery, why did they issue new ID and insurance cards with the new sex? "Kim's" body hasn't been fully "changed" yet so the sex on the body and the sex on the cards don't yet match. Is that legal? Also, I didn't read in the story anything about the child's chromosomes. Does the child have male or female chromosomes?
Interesting link.
Does having a Y chromosome make someone a man? | Intersex Society of North America

Google-Ergebnis für http://geneticsassociates.com/images/toddler.jpg

Yes I know the article didn't write much either ambiguous genitalia, intersex, hermaphrodite, etc. he suffer but it written in article that Kim's parents check with Psychiatrists. I beleive they made tests including cytogenetic test until 100% absolutely before he become she. If the parents suspect something not okay with toddlers and children then have doctors to make cytogenetic test on toddlers and children.
Example David Reimer:
CBC News Indepth: David Reimer

What the doctor did to David is not right. First doctor did accidently to burn David's skin under circumcison surgery. It's impossible to correct his penis so he suggest David's parents to change David into girl without test his genetic either he have male hormone or not. He was She until puberty time, she feel in her body that she is man... She suffer during puberty time... pretty unhappy.... end to damage her good self-esteem... but what Kim did is not same thing as David... The tests was done by doctors on Tim before he become Kim... Without tests, is an illegal... I thought you aware that every makes tests.
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Unread 01-31-2007, 06:46 AM   #21
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I hope this child doesn't change her (his?) mind in 10 or 20 years.
No, I has no doubt that she will change her mind in 10 or 20 years later.


During toddler/small children time, play with dolls, cars, etc. are normal but soon before they hit puberty is not okay.
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Unread 01-31-2007, 06:49 AM   #22
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I know what a hermaphrodite is but I don't think that is what this child is. From what I read, this child was born anatomically a male (which would include male chromosomes), but felt psychologically like a female. (Unless there is more to this story that I haven't yet seen.) That's why I'm asking the question about the chromosomes. The posted story didn't mention it, so I'm trying to get more facts about the situation.
I know it didn't write in article about heraphrodite but I beleive yes. Many people unaware either they have male or female hormones in their body until soon before they hit puberty.

Check links in my previous posts.
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Unread 01-31-2007, 07:02 AM   #23
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If my child wanted a tattoo at the age of 12, it would be a big NO NO!! I really don't care if people call me a closed minder, I rather them to wait until they're older....wellll I hope it's a good tattoo not bloody or scary ones... but for :ahem: sexually change, heck NO!
Accord this thread here, this is not doctors's job to fulfill patients's wish with tattoos, piercings etc but yourself as parents. It's up to parents, not doctors.

With medical issues is total different, Doctors are responsible to take care of health issues where it relate to every bodies etc. Tattoo/piercing doesn't relate on medical issues...
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Unread 01-31-2007, 09:26 AM   #24
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Oh yes... they are the same because ear belongs part of body.

If I deny to fulfil his wish to have ear surgery until he is 18 years old then he will suffer physcial emotional in puberty/teenage time. No way, I prefer to let him to have ear surgery soon before he hit puberty...


Otoplasty
You're kidding, right? You can't really believe an ear tuck has the same impact on a person's life as a sex change.

A sex change impacts a person's entire identity. An ear tuck doesn't change a name, an ID card, marriage status, life-long hormone treatments, and legal status.
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Unread 01-31-2007, 09:51 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Liebling:-))) View Post
...Yes I know the article didn't write much either ambiguous genitalia, intersex, hermaphrodite, etc. he suffer but it written in article that Kim's parents check with Psychiatrists. I beleive they made tests including cytogenetic test until 100% absolutely before he become she.
Where did you read that? Please include the link. If they did do the tests, what were the results? Nothing in the posted story says anything about any physical reason for changing the child's sex. It just mentions the mental, emotional and behavioral reasons.

If the child was actually born with female hormones, then why does Kim need female hormone treatments now? That's contradictory.

Quote:
If the parents suspect something not okay with toddlers and children then have doctors to make cytogenetic test on toddlers and children.
If Kim's parents did that, then why isn't it mentioned in the article? There is nothing in the article that says Kim was born with female hormones or chromosomes. It just says that Kim felt and behaved female.


Quote:
Example David Reimer:
CBC News Indepth: David Reimer

What the doctor did to David is not right.
You are correct. The doctor was wrong. But this situation is not the same thing as the Kim situation.

Quote:
... Without tests, is an illegal... I thought you aware that every makes tests.
From what I have read, many people have their sex "reassigned" because they are mentally, emotionally, and behaviorally the opposite sex. It has nothing to do with their hormones or chromosomes. (Notice, I said "many", not "all".) Sure, they take the tests, and the tests come back proving that they are the sex that they were born with, and that they don't need a "change" for any medical or physical reasons. But they go ahead and get the surgery anyway. So, taking a test doesn't make the change legal or illegal.

Your link about David explains:

"Two studies – released by the Johns Hopkins Children's Center – concluded that it's prenatal exposure to male hormones that turns normal male babies into boys. The studies 'seriously question the current practice of sex-reassigning some of these infants as females'…"

In Kim's case, the child apparently was born with male hormones (unless you find more information that states otherwise). That's why Kim needs to take a hormone therapy to become feminized. Kim's body doesn't naturally produce female hormones. That's why I suspect Kim was born male, and is still male, physically. That's why I'm curious about the chromosome and hormone tests. Why aren't those results published in the article? That would clarify the situation.
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Unread 01-31-2007, 09:57 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Liebling:-))) View Post
No, I has no doubt that she will change her mind in 10 or 20 years later.
But then how will she change back? The surgery doesn't work as well changing back to male.


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During toddler/small children time, play with dolls, cars, etc. are normal but soon before they hit puberty is not okay.
Huh? Playing with dolls and cars is not OK during puberty? Why not?
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Unread 01-31-2007, 10:00 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Liebling:-))) View Post
I know it didn't write in article about heraphrodite but I beleive yes. Many people unaware either they have male or female hormones in their body until soon before they hit puberty.

Check links in my previous posts.
None of your links were about Kim's situation.

According to the parents, Kim had girlish behavior and desires long before puberty.

Chromosomes can be checked any time, not just before puberty.
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Unread 01-31-2007, 02:02 PM   #28
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You're kidding, right? You can't really believe an ear tuck has the same impact on a person's life as a sex change.

A sex change impacts a person's entire identity. An ear tuck doesn't change a name, an ID card, marriage status, life-long hormone treatments, and legal status.
What do with entire identiy, name, etc?

Please re-read my post carefully. It has nothing do with a person´s identity etc.

I try to say that ear surgery belongs part of body. I´m happy to fulfill my son´s wish to CORRECT his ears. He would end unhappy and depression (suffer psychological, emotional, physiological, etc) if I deny his wish and tell him to wait until 18 years old then have ear surgery.

I´m try to say that Kim´s parents know her well to fulfill her wish.
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Unread 01-31-2007, 02:22 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reba View Post
Where did you read that? Please include the link. If they did do the tests, what were the results? Nothing in the posted story says anything about any physical reason for changing the child's sex. It just mentions the mental, emotional and behavioral reasons.

If the child was actually born with female hormones, then why does Kim need female hormone treatments now? That's contradictory.
Again, I already stated in previous posts that I know that it didn´t write everything in article and provide you few interesting links about tests etc.

Quote:
If Kim's parents did that, then why isn't it mentioned in the article? There is nothing in the article that says Kim was born with female hormones or chromosomes. It just says that Kim felt and behaved female.
Yes that´s right. Tim is not only one who consider himself as girl because many people like that.

Many people who consider themselves as man or woman then later have sex change surgery. Before transexual surgery, they didn´t know who really they are... Perhaps they refuse to accept who really they are until they are old enough to realize who really they are and then make tests. I have read their stories about transexual etc before.


Quote:
You are correct. The doctor was wrong. But this situation is not the same thing as the Kim situation.
I already mentioned in my previous post that this situation is not the same thing. I only want to show you the example of David´s case what the doctor did is not right which Kim´s case is different as David.

Quote:
From what I have read, many people have their sex "reassigned" because they are mentally, emotionally, and behaviorally the opposite sex. It has nothing to do with their hormones or chromosomes. (Notice, I said "many", not "all".) Sure, they take the tests, and the tests come back proving that they are the sex that they were born with, and that they don't need a "change" for any medical or physical reasons. But they go ahead and get the surgery anyway. So, taking a test doesn't make the change legal or illegal.
Yes I know. I have read, too but this is for adult who decide themselves to become woman or man but accord Kim is a different because she is minor. I beleive that the doctor are obligate to have test on her on the behalf of Kim´s parents and health insurance. Health Insurance don´t cover the costs for Kim without tests, etc. I know that because public healthy insurance demand the proof and tests, etc. before they cover the costs for her treatment. Public Health Insurance cover the costs for a person who born wrong hormones or chromosomes, intersex, etc, not people who desire themselves to be woman or man.

Quote:
Your link about David explains:

"Two studies – released by the Johns Hopkins Children's Center – concluded that it's prenatal exposure to male hormones that turns normal male babies into boys. The studies 'seriously question the current practice of sex-reassigning some of these infants as females'…"

In Kim's case, the child apparently was born with male hormones (unless you find more information that states otherwise). That's why Kim needs to take a hormone therapy to become feminized. Kim's body doesn't naturally produce female hormones. That's why I suspect Kim was born male, and is still male, physically. That's why I'm curious about the chromosome and hormone tests. Why aren't those results published in the article? That would clarify the situation.
This link is relate David´s case, not Kim.
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Unread 01-31-2007, 02:38 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Reba View Post
But then how will she change back? The surgery doesn't work as well changing back to male.
Can you provide me some examples to compare Kim´s case? I never heard that that she want to back to he again.
Quote:
Huh? Playing with dolls and cars is not OK during puberty? Why not?


I think I didn´t make my prevoius post clear.

Example:

A toddler/small child boy play with dolls and wear woman´s clothes is normal for toddler/small child´s age but soon he hit puberty (11 to 12 years old) still wear woman clothes and use woman´s things is not okay.

It´s same with girl, who play with cars is normal for toddler/small child´s age but soon before she hit puberty still desire to be boy and use boy´s things is not okay.

Got it?

It says in German websites (I will search for English link to provide here) that parents noticed that Tim wear girl clothes and play dolls, etc. and thought it´s normal for toddler age... until they begin notice his behavior development... something not okay... until Tim admit their parents that he do not feel that he is a boy. That´s how the parents focus Tim´s feeling and check with doctors, etc. until there´re 100% correct.... and decide to fulfill Tim´s wish into Kim.
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