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Unread 07-10-2006, 06:51 PM   #1
Foxrac
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Deaf children in between mainstream school and deaf school

I had been in deaf school for 2 years and in mainstream school for 10 years. I noticed education is different in deaf school than in mainstream school and staff in deaf school isn't nice though but hearing teachers at mainstream school is chill out and nice to me. I remember about in long time when most children was struck at deaf school in pre-1970's before law was passed to control all of public school to accept for let deaf children to attend. Education at deaf school is so easier for me but graduation requirement credit is just force all deaf students to take Algebra, Biology, Chemsity, Geometry and more others at deaf school. I believe that high school at deaf school is much better than in elementary school and middle school in campus area. I like deaf school because less pressure in school, make more successful, good along with other students and easier to communication with ASL. I was transferred to mainstream school again for senior because I just don't like some staff and got bad pressure in dorm too but it too limited to struck at deaf school and mainstream school is just normal school that where students can get out to somewhere like mall, go to home and no limited with everything except for school hours.

I was in bilingual education with interpreter that know about ASL at mainstream school.

How is different with between deaf school and mainstream school? Explain yourself.

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Unread 07-10-2006, 06:58 PM   #2
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My fiancee went to a mainstream school that refused to provide interpreters because they thought she wasn't "deaf enough". Then it was because they thought she couldn't sign well enough. Pure BS if you ask me.

Mainstream schools are not the best place for deaf students unless they have decent interpreting services.
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Unread 07-10-2006, 07:11 PM   #3
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That's right but its depends on school district but soome parents already sue on school for broke ADA laws for not provide interpreters and some school district is under fund then cannot afford to hire interpreters and encourage to some parents about deaf children are should to get CI before attend mainstream school because school district is under fund and can't afford to hire interpreters. That's so stupid...
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Unread 07-10-2006, 08:14 PM   #4
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Deaf schools are NOT for every Deaf students !!
Mainstream schools are NOT for every Deaf students !!

I attended both Deaf schools and Pre-Mainstream school

I had an enriched & good experience at Deaf Schools
I actually had lots of respect and LOVE from School headmaster,
teachers and students. Very laid back and easy going
environment like a family. I loved it !

I also attended Pre-mainstream "Hearing" school
before ADA & these interpreters
were NOT existed during that time.
It was alright and challenging, but
I would NOT do it ever again. However,
I had a good time with 3 hearing girlfriends from
our hearing school. They all HATE each other, but I befriend
with each one of them one to one at a time keep myself
very busy during that time. They all have three different
worlds !! 1) Jennifer: creative arts/cooking
2) Susie: Sports such as Rollerskating, tennis & archery
3) Cathy: acrylic oil painting and horseback riding way out
in the country where she and her family owned 2 horses.

During that time, I had a Deaf Boyfriend from
deaf school many miles away. A Beautiful ASL signer

Which one do you think is more suitable for me ?

Since I have a number of Deaf brothers and sisters,
I realize that is very individual matter because
some of my deaf brothers/sisters SHOULD have stayed at
Deaf School and one of them SHOULD have
stayed at mainstream school.
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Unread 07-10-2006, 11:45 PM   #5
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I just think that total mainstreaming should NOT be the default option. Some kids do well under that, but other kids are misrable.....I really think hearing parents should be encouraged to experiment.
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Unread 07-11-2006, 07:42 AM   #6
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One thing I keep seeing/hearing over and over is the concept, in general, that deaf schools aren't really educating the children. If they go to a mainstream school, they learn so much more.

I don't quite understand what is up with that? I totally agree that deafness has nothing to do with intelligence (not to say that some deaf don't have issues just like any other child hearing or not) and therefore have a difficult time understanding the "dumbing" down syndrome of deaf schools. Can anybody clue me in on why this seems to be the case most of the time?

Just FYI - I was educated as oral to the nth degree and was mainstreamed from third grade on. Heck, I was reading on a level several grades ahead of hearing children! I can sort of remember that the four years in a deaf school weren't exactly easy and I did learn good things too.
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Unread 07-11-2006, 08:44 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sr171soars

I don't quite understand what is up with that? I totally agree that deafness has nothing to do with intelligence (not to say that some deaf don't have issues just like any other child hearing or not) and therefore have a difficult time understanding the "dumbing" down syndrome of deaf schools. Can anybody clue me in on why this seems to be the case most of the time?
i can't understand it either, and i suspect it got a lot to do with 'orders' from high rankiing higbrows to deny resources, finanically and educationally, for all the equipments, stationarys and staffs alike are arranged, to prove a point that deafness is the 'problem' and was made into an 'industry'.

Those hideous 'educational acts' to stupefy the deaf children have their parents flooded with nonsensical 'concepts', only baffles. We'd never know the real reasons the why it still functions in this failed state, it will tend to go buried to the grave with those highbrows.

nuff rant
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Unread 07-11-2006, 08:50 AM   #8
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I think this is another case of "your milage may vary". Meaning, each school district is most likely a bit different. My son has been in mainstream school that has classes dedicated for the deaf kids and then they are in with the mainstream kids for a couple of classes like Art and PE. The teachers are certified and the schools seem to be receptive to adapting the methods to what works for each individual student. That's my experience in my area but it doesn't mean it's the norm. Again, your milage may vary.
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Unread 07-11-2006, 11:26 AM   #9
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i was mainstreamed kid ALL my life with deaf program with other deaf kids i had 2 best friends in same program as me we grew up together until i moved other state but still i keep in touch with them for years and years

i learn SL (both english language and ASL) when i was 3 cuz what my parents believe was best for me they were right sign lauguage is the best i still use sign language for long time 31 years of using sign lauguage
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Unread 07-11-2006, 12:02 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonflower
i was mainstreamed kid ALL my life with deaf program with other deaf kids i had 2 best friends in same program as me we grew up together until i moved other state but still i keep in touch with them for years and years

i learn SL (both english language and ASL) when i was 3 cuz what my parents believe was best for me they were right sign lauguage is the best i still use sign language for long time 31 years of using sign lauguage
You are right... ASL is the best thing in the deaf world... signs was my first langauge.. my parents were deaf.. and I was HOH...

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Unread 07-11-2006, 12:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volcomskatz
I had been in deaf school for 2 years and in mainstream school for 10 years. I noticed education is different in deaf school than in mainstream school and staff in deaf school isn't nice though but hearing teachers at mainstream school is chill out and nice to me. I remember about in long time when most children was struck at deaf school in pre-1970's before law was passed to control all of public school to accept for let deaf children to attend. Education at deaf school is so easier for me but graduation requirement credit is just force all deaf students to take Algebra, Biology, Chemsity, Geometry and more others at deaf school. I believe that high school at deaf school is much better than in elementary school and middle school in campus area. I like deaf school because less pressure in school, make more successful, good along with other students and easier to communication with ASL. I was transferred to mainstream school again for senior because I just don't like some staff and got bad pressure in dorm too but it too limited to struck at deaf school and mainstream school is just normal school that where students can get out to somewhere like mall, go to home and no limited with everything except for school hours.

I was in bilingual education with interpreter that know about ASL at mainstream school.

How is different with between deaf school and mainstream school? Explain yourself.

Make up your mind... which schools you like best??
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Unread 07-11-2006, 01:36 PM   #12
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This topic is something that is close to my heart because of all the problems I had with school systems when my son was younger. He started off in elementary school in mainstream because I didn't want to send him to deaf school as a residential student. From the very beginning, it was a constant fight to get them to keep an interpreter in class for him. The school system used the same old excuse of lack of funding, which is just a bunch of BS! The money for interpreters does not come directly from the local school system. Because it is based on federal law, the local system is reimbursed by the State Dept. of Ed. and they are reimbursed by the federal government. That is the excuse they use to try to get parents to sign off on an IEP that only provides services that are convienient for the school system.

The school my son was mainstreamed in did not have a separate program for deaf. He was the only deaf student in th elementary school, and it just wasn't a good situation. I finally ended up relocating so he could go to St. Rita School for the Deaf in Cincinnati as a day student. But I had to take the home school district to due process before an administrative law judge before they would agree to send him.

They kept arguing that the Least Restrictive Environment was a mainstream school. I argued that it was most restrictive, because he could not communicate effectively with his teachers or the other students. If his interpreter was sick and didn't show up, he lost a day of classroom instruction. Fortunately, the law judge saw it my way, and ordered the school system to pay his tuition to the deaf school.

I have heard all of the old arguments that students in deaf schools do not receive as good an education as students in mainstream schools for years. I personally don't buy it. I sat in on classes before my son was enrolled, and the material was equal to the material being taught in hearing schools. My son always read above grade level. I think that people feel that the education is not as good because the teaching is done in sign, and they have a mistaken belief that it is an inferior language to verbal english. But the statistics show that when deaf students are taught English as a second language using ASL as the reference to teach it, their reading vocabulary and comprehension are equal to the scores for hearing students.

I firmly believe that is the biggest problem with mainstream education. They want to teach the deaf student the same way the hearing student is taught, but simply use sign as a supplement. They do not understand that deaf student process incoming information in a different way than hearing students do, and that has to be taken into consideration when teaching them. You can't just make the information visual. It doesn't work.

Teachers in mainstream used to tell me my son had problems sequencing (taking pictures and putting them in order of what happens first, etc.) When I asked them to show me his work, he wasn't having problems. He was putting the pictures in order of ASL systax, because that's what made sense to him. But the teachers didn't understand that language affects things like that. It wasn't wrong, just different than the hearing students would have done it. It wasn't that he didn't understand, he just understood in a different way.

Just one more point, and then I'll stop since this is getting so long. (I could go on FOREVER)! School is about more than just sitting in a classroom and studying from a book. It is about interacting with peers, and learning to form relationships. It's about socialization. It's about discovering your identity. In a mainstream school, that was impossible for my son. He couldn't interact because he couldn't communicate in a natural way with the hearing students. His identity would have always been "That deaf kid." At St. Rita, he wasn't "that deaf kid". He was just P.J. He wasn't defined by his deafness.

I think the reference to mainstream teachers chilling out was interesting. My son originally thought that the teachers in deaf school were meaner, too. But that wan't it. The mainstream teachers just didn't expect much from him because he was deaf. At the deaf school, teachers said, "You can too do it. Don't try that, "I'm deaf" stuff here! We're deaf, too. Might work on your hearing teachers, but not here!" They expected his best, and he had to give his best. And that's a good thing.

Sorry for such a long post!
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Unread 07-11-2006, 02:06 PM   #13
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Good posting, Jillio !


Thats why I had an enriched & good experience
at my deaf school.

According to my hearing school experience,
it was not that great but I had a good time
learning from my neighbor friends more than
from hearing school itself ! I had no real
identity there.

People usually asked me how did I have
no fear at the front audience. They were
very surprised that I had all the confidence
without any fear at the front audience
learning from my former Deaf school !!
Many thanks to my Deaf school where
they encouraged me to join and travel
with them going to civic clubs and
spoke with these people in a private room
full of philanthropists & donors smoking cigars.

I mean my Deaf school already knew
my strengthness and weaknesses so
I was able to contribute one of
my best strengths.
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Unread 07-11-2006, 02:11 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jillio
This topic is something that is close to my heart because of all the problems I had with school systems when my son was younger. He started off in elementary school in mainstream because I didn't want to send him to deaf school as a residential student. From the very beginning, it was a constant fight to get them to keep an interpreter in class for him. The school system used the same old excuse of lack of funding, which is just a bunch of BS! The money for interpreters does not come directly from the local school system. Because it is based on federal law, the local system is reimbursed by the State Dept. of Ed. and they are reimbursed by the federal government. That is the excuse they use to try to get parents to sign off on an IEP that only provides services that are convienient for the school system.

The school my son was mainstreamed in did not have a separate program for deaf. He was the only deaf student in th elementary school, and it just wasn't a good situation. I finally ended up relocating so he could go to St. Rita School for the Deaf in Cincinnati as a day student. But I had to take the home school district to due process before an administrative law judge before they would agree to send him.

They kept arguing that the Least Restrictive Environment was a mainstream school. I argued that it was most restrictive, because he could not communicate effectively with his teachers or the other students. If his interpreter was sick and didn't show up, he lost a day of classroom instruction. Fortunately, the law judge saw it my way, and ordered the school system to pay his tuition to the deaf school.

I have heard all of the old arguments that students in deaf schools do not receive as good an education as students in mainstream schools for years. I personally don't buy it. I sat in on classes before my son was enrolled, and the material was equal to the material being taught in hearing schools. My son always read above grade level. I think that people feel that the education is not as good because the teaching is done in sign, and they have a mistaken belief that it is an inferior language to verbal english. But the statistics show that when deaf students are taught English as a second language using ASL as the reference to teach it, their reading vocabulary and comprehension are equal to the scores for hearing students.

I firmly believe that is the biggest problem with mainstream education. They want to teach the deaf student the same way the hearing student is taught, but simply use sign as a supplement. They do not understand that deaf student process incoming information in a different way than hearing students do, and that has to be taken into consideration when teaching them. You can't just make the information visual. It doesn't work.

Teachers in mainstream used to tell me my son had problems sequencing (taking pictures and putting them in order of what happens first, etc.) When I asked them to show me his work, he wasn't having problems. He was putting the pictures in order of ASL systax, because that's what made sense to him. But the teachers didn't understand that language affects things like that. It wasn't wrong, just different than the hearing students would have done it. It wasn't that he didn't understand, he just understood in a different way.

Just one more point, and then I'll stop since this is getting so long. (I could go on FOREVER)! School is about more than just sitting in a classroom and studying from a book. It is about interacting with peers, and learning to form relationships. It's about socialization. It's about discovering your identity. In a mainstream school, that was impossible for my son. He couldn't interact because he couldn't communicate in a natural way with the hearing students. His identity would have always been "That deaf kid." At St. Rita, he wasn't "that deaf kid". He was just P.J. He wasn't defined by his deafness.

I think the reference to mainstream teachers chilling out was interesting. My son originally thought that the teachers in deaf school were meaner, too. But that wan't it. The mainstream teachers just didn't expect much from him because he was deaf. At the deaf school, teachers said, "You can too do it. Don't try that, "I'm deaf" stuff here! We're deaf, too. Might work on your hearing teachers, but not here!" They expected his best, and he had to give his best. And that's a good thing.

Sorry for such a long post!
WOW It is best post...
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Unread 07-11-2006, 03:35 PM   #15
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Thanks SxyPorkie and Y! Just my experience. for what it is worth.
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Unread 07-11-2006, 05:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jillio
Thanks SxyPorkie and Y! Just my experience. for what it is worth.
You're welcome !
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Unread 07-11-2006, 06:30 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnulinuxman
Mainstream schools are not the best place for deaf students unless they have decent interpreting services.
They're not the best place, either, for hoh students. The battleax in my public high school limited my services and cut my tutor (for typing) so many times. I fought her all the time and got to repeatedly keep my tutor. You should see the way I type, as it's not the same way that most people do, but it's normal for me.
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Unread 07-11-2006, 07:02 PM   #18
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Quote:
School is about more than just sitting in a classroom and studying from a book. It is about interacting with peers, and learning to form relationships. It's about socialization. It's about discovering your identity. In a mainstream school, that was impossible for my son. He couldn't interact because he couldn't communicate in a natural way with the hearing students. His identity would have always been "That deaf kid." At St. Rita, he wasn't "that deaf kid". He was just P.J. He wasn't defined by his deafness.
excellent post! I also know that while sometimes the mainstream school can offer better curriculm, the mentality of the mainstream teachers can really dilate the better curriculm. Like we are lumped into the rest of the sped kids....quite a few of whom are just apathtic slackers (I'm not saying ALL of them are like that. Just saying that there seem to be a lot of sped kids who just don't give a shit about learning) and we get told that we're not gonna acheive or do anything with our lives.....it's frustating as hell!
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Unread 07-12-2006, 03:37 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deafdyke
excellent post! I also know that while sometimes the mainstream school can offer better curriculm, the mentality of the mainstream teachers can really dilate the better curriculm. Like we are lumped into the rest of the sped kids....quite a few of whom are just apathtic slackers (I'm not saying ALL of them are like that. Just saying that there seem to be a lot of sped kids who just don't give a shit about learning) and we get told that we're not gonna acheive or do anything with our lives.....it's frustating as hell!
and from ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jillio
School is about more than just sitting in a classroom and studying from a book. It is about interacting with peers, and learning to form relationships. It's about socialization. It's about discovering your identity. In a mainstream school, that was impossible for my son. He couldn't interact because he couldn't communicate in a natural way with the hearing students. His identity would have always been "That deaf kid." At St. Rita, he wasn't "that deaf kid". He was just P.J. He wasn't defined by his deafness.
i reckon !
the pressure teachers get from the sped kids as slackers shouldn't (but it does, well they get burned out too) teachers aren't god-send 'teaching' robots, but yeah I can absolutely see how the teacher would look pass the 'well-trying hard deaf/hearnig impaired kids...) I KNOW it, iv'e been there, sometimes it seems they dont 'feel the flow' and nor want to try to make it happen, once a flow works, its wonders, but hell think of the other side too
the deaf kids(me) have to be on wit's ends to rank up in our own heads to try make up , to attempt to over-compensate the lack of auditory information (or just information, though gifted readers are excepted - they are just lucky) but ends up getting MORE confused. its mental torture.

aka deafdykes' words, frustrating as hell

as for both DD and jillio , you have my sentiments
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Unread 07-12-2006, 04:26 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grummer
and from ...



i reckon !
the pressure teachers get from the sped kids as slackers shouldn't (but it does, well they get burned out too) teachers aren't god-send 'teaching' robots, but yeah I can absolutely see how the teacher would look pass the 'well-trying hard deaf/hearnig impaired kids...) I KNOW it, iv'e been there, sometimes it seems they dont 'feel the flow' and nor want to try to make it happen, once a flow works, its wonders, but hell think of the other side too
the deaf kids(me) have to be on wit's ends to rank up in our own heads to try make up , to attempt to over-compensate the lack of auditory information (or just information, though gifted readers are excepted - they are just lucky) but ends up getting MORE confused. its mental torture.

aka deafdykes' words, frustrating as hell

as for both DD and jillio , you have my sentiments
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Unread 07-12-2006, 09:57 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnulinuxman
Mainstream schools are not the best place for deaf students unless they have decent interpreting services.
That's partially true but they need much more than just good interpreting services to be effective. Like certified teachers and programs that are adaptible and the mainstream teachers need to be sensetive to the needs of the deaf kids etc. etc.
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Unread 02-17-2010, 12:51 PM   #22
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Question Mainstream V Special Schools

I am doing my dissertation on this title as I am inerested in the debate on it, I want to eventually teach and work with deaf pupils, your quotes and replys are of interest, I still havnt come to a conclusion on the subject, I know to begin with i would have thought special schools would exclude the child from being included with other children and from the wider society, but reading and researching thier are also some strong views of the oposite side, i just cant see which is betetr for the chid, after all every childs different!
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