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Unread 03-12-2006, 10:12 PM   #1
foxxyy
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Difference between ASl and ESL?

Hi there,

my best frind who is deaf is teaching me sign language. Since we live in Canada, shes teaching me ESL. I was just wondering, what is the difference between the two languages (ESL, and ASL?)? are the signs a little different between the two?

Thank you
- christine
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Unread 03-12-2006, 10:15 PM   #2
ayala920
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By ESL do you mean SEE (Signing Exact English)?
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"Most English-speaking people...will admit that cellar door is 'beautiful', especially if dissociated from its sense (and from its spelling). More beautiful than, say, sky, and far more beautiful than beautiful. Well then, in Welsh for me cellar doors are extraordinarily frequent, and moving to the higher dimension, the words in which there is pleasure in the contemplation of the association of form and sense are abundant."

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Unread 03-12-2006, 10:17 PM   #3
foxxyy
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ESL as in english sign language
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Unread 03-12-2006, 10:51 PM   #4
ayala920
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I'd typed up a response, but realized that this article explains it far better than I can.
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"Most English-speaking people...will admit that cellar door is 'beautiful', especially if dissociated from its sense (and from its spelling). More beautiful than, say, sky, and far more beautiful than beautiful. Well then, in Welsh for me cellar doors are extraordinarily frequent, and moving to the higher dimension, the words in which there is pleasure in the contemplation of the association of form and sense are abundant."

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Unread 03-12-2006, 10:58 PM   #5
Reba
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Good link.

I think this paragraph gives the "nutshell" difference:

Quote:
ESE, SEE I, and SEE II are examples of "consciously designed" signing systems (Stokoe, 1992). Designers of these systems have either invented signs or borrowed signs from existing sign languages for the purpose of manually encoding spoken English. The purpose for designing such systems is to make spoken English visually accessible to deaf students. American Sign Language, on the other hand, is neither English nor a manual representation of English. ASL is a language with vocabulary and grammatical structures distinct from all other languages. As a language, ASL has developed naturally over time and is the "natural language used by members of the North American Deaf community" (Valli & Lucas, 1992).
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Unread 03-14-2006, 07:20 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxxyy
ESL as in english sign language
ESL means English as a Second Language. It's not used as an acronym in regards to an English sign system.

There is ASL (American Sign Language) and BSL (British Sign Language). If you are in Canada probably you are using ASL, although there is a lot of British (especially Scottish) culture there so possibly some people use BSL, but that's just a guess.
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Unread 03-14-2006, 07:26 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interpretrator
ESL means English as a Second Language. It's not used as an acronym in regards to an English sign system.

There is ASL (American Sign Language) and BSL (British Sign Language). If you are in Canada probably you are using ASL, although there is a lot of British (especially Scottish) culture there so possibly some people use BSL, but that's just a guess.
I believe (I may be wrong) that Canada primarily uses ASL, though some areas use LSQ (I hope I got that acronym right) which is for Quebec.
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"Most English-speaking people...will admit that cellar door is 'beautiful', especially if dissociated from its sense (and from its spelling). More beautiful than, say, sky, and far more beautiful than beautiful. Well then, in Welsh for me cellar doors are extraordinarily frequent, and moving to the higher dimension, the words in which there is pleasure in the contemplation of the association of form and sense are abundant."

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Unread 03-14-2006, 07:31 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interpretrator
ESL means English as a Second Language. It's not used as an acronym in regards to an English sign system...
You are technically correct. Unfortunately, many deaf students coming up thru "mainstream" programs think that they are signing something called English sign language. They are very adament about that (duck and cover if you say otherwise to them).
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Unread 03-14-2006, 07:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reba
You are technically correct. Unfortunately, many deaf students coming up thru "mainstream" programs think that they are signing something called English sign language. They are very adament about that (duck and cover if you say otherwise to them).
Really? Interesting. The VAST majority of my friends (all but a small handful) were mainstreamed, and I've never heard any of them call it that.
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"Most English-speaking people...will admit that cellar door is 'beautiful', especially if dissociated from its sense (and from its spelling). More beautiful than, say, sky, and far more beautiful than beautiful. Well then, in Welsh for me cellar doors are extraordinarily frequent, and moving to the higher dimension, the words in which there is pleasure in the contemplation of the association of form and sense are abundant."

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Unread 03-14-2006, 11:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ayala920
Really? Interesting. The VAST majority of my friends (all but a small handful) were mainstreamed, and I've never heard any of them call it that.
Maybe it is a regional thing.
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Unread 03-15-2006, 01:06 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reba
You are technically correct. Unfortunately, many deaf students coming up thru "mainstream" programs think that they are signing something called English sign language. They are very adament about that (duck and cover if you say otherwise to them).
Like Ayala I've never seen this at all. The students I know who are from mainstreamed programs call their language ASL (even if it's truly contact sign or even SE) or just "sign language"; I've never seen anyone refer to "English" unless it's in an English or ESL class.

I agree, it's probably a regional thing, and good to know that's out there. But don't those students get confused when they have to take an ESL class?
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Unread 03-15-2006, 06:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ayala920
I believe (I may be wrong) that Canada primarily uses ASL, though some areas use LSQ (I hope I got that acronym right) which is for Quebec.
You are correct - I have chatted with deaf folks in Canada and they assured me ASL is used in all of English-speaking Canada. (I was also able to understand them, so it really was ASL, hee) And LSQ is used in French-speaking Canada, i.e. Quebec.

I was looking into possibly moving to Montreal, and I was checking out the job market for interpreters up there. According to the terps I spoke with, most deaf people in Quebec are francophone (French and LSQ) rather than anglophone (English and ASL). The schools in Quebec are mostly French, so deaf English-speakers are usually from elsewhere and moved there. I know ASL and LSQ are somewhat similar - I saw a video in LSQ and was able to understand some of it - but I wouldn't say they are totally compatible.
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Unread 03-16-2006, 01:24 AM   #13
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Well it is true that most of canada does use ASL and in Quebec they use LSQ, but many of the younger signers or oral first --signers second are using SEE Signing exact english - no it is not called ESL. ESL means learning a spoken english as a second language. SEE means that your signing every single word that you would speak in english. b verbs and so on. And the many of the signs are different from asl.
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Unread 03-16-2006, 09:33 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interpretrator
Like Ayala I've never seen this at all. The students I know who are from mainstreamed programs call their language ASL (even if it's truly contact sign or even SE) or just "sign language"; I've never seen anyone refer to "English" unless it's in an English or ESL class.

I agree, it's probably a regional thing, and good to know that's out there. But don't those students get confused when they have to take an ESL class?
They are quite adament that they are using "English Sign Language". If I even suggest that is not correct, WATCH OUT! They are highly offended if I mention that signed English is not a language.

One deaf friend (not my client) told me that, "some Deaf people sign ASL, and some sign ESL; I sign ESL."

None of these students have ever taken an English as second language class. They probably would have benefited from taking one but no one has. At the college, they usually get put into "developmental" reading and writing classes (non-credit, non-GPA) before taking the 101 level courses.
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Unread 03-16-2006, 09:41 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reba
They are quite adament that they are using "English Sign Language". If I even suggest that is not correct, WATCH OUT! They are highly offended if I mention that signed English is not a language.

One deaf friend (not my client) told me that, "some Deaf people sign ASL, and some sign ESL; I sign ESL."

None of these students have ever taken an English as second language class. They probably would have benefited from taking one but no one has. At the college, they usually get put into "developmental" reading and writing classes (non-credit, non-GPA) before taking the 101 level courses.
That's almost scary...I guess they don't know anything about Deaf culture. They really should look at this page that explains exactly why Signed English is not a language! I'm curious, what signs do they use for it? Do they say "ENGLAND" + "SIGNING" + "LANGUAGE" when they are talking about ESL? (Those would be ASL signs...I don't mean SIGN+ING but rather the regular ASL sign for signing.) It is really sad that they don't know what ASL is.

And yes, some Deaf people do need to go to remedial reading classes when they go to college. I know lots of Deaf people with great English reading and writing skills...but I know lots who don't have them.

edit: I guess you said they do know what ASL is...it's sad that they don't know Signed English is not a language.
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Unread 03-16-2006, 09:46 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Etoile
... I'm curious, what signs do they use for it? Do they say "ENGLAND" + "SIGNING" + "LANGUAGE" when they are talking about ESL?
That, or usually just "E-S-L" .

They really don't sign "textbook" signed English either; it is more PSE/CASE.
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Unread 03-16-2006, 10:02 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Etoile
That's almost scary...I guess they don't know anything about Deaf culture. They really should look at this page that explains exactly why Signed English is not a language! I'm curious, what signs do they use for it? Do they say "ENGLAND" + "SIGNING" + "LANGUAGE" when they are talking about ESL? (Those would be ASL signs...I don't mean SIGN+ING but rather the regular ASL sign for signing.) It is really sad that they don't know what ASL is.

And yes, some Deaf people do need to go to remedial reading classes when they go to college. I know lots of Deaf people with great English reading and writing skills...but I know lots who don't have them.

edit: I guess you said they do know what ASL is...it's sad that they don't know Signed English is not a language.
It is scary! The students I interpret for are all pretty much ASL-users. While I don't know if they realize SEE is not a language, they do know this much: They hate it. When we have down time and they're giving me a hard time, I like teasing them by using SEE (what I grew up with). Drive 'em nuts, and they stop being mean to me.
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"Most English-speaking people...will admit that cellar door is 'beautiful', especially if dissociated from its sense (and from its spelling). More beautiful than, say, sky, and far more beautiful than beautiful. Well then, in Welsh for me cellar doors are extraordinarily frequent, and moving to the higher dimension, the words in which there is pleasure in the contemplation of the association of form and sense are abundant."

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Unread 03-16-2006, 10:30 PM   #18
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Hi everyone.

I am deaf. I am an ASL instructor, I know on Vancouver Island deaf people are using SEE no ASL but some deaf people know ASL. That is really sad for the deaf community. I grew up in Montreal for many years; I attended Gallaudet University for 3 years. In USA and Canada deaf people use ASL but in USA and Canada ASL might be different their own ASL and own their states and their own provinces for their deaf communities.

However, that is really very sad for deaf people learn SEE from the hearing teachers NO deaf teachers or a deaf roll models that is very important for the deaf roll models who can successful for their careers the deaf kids look up the deaf models then they can do it and they will learn ASL habit.

I saw deaf people who live on Vancouver Island, everyone use SEE no ASL that sad. I asked them where they learned from. Everyone attractive on me. Because I am very strong ASL. My ex girlfriend learned from me but she use SEE I want to teach her ASL more that is big challenge for her. Also I want to encourage her to learn more ASL from me. Also I would like to take her to meet the deaf community. So everyone learn about ASL, deaf culture, deaf history, etc a lot from me.

This fall I would be an ASL instructor, who are interested in to learn ASL class.
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Unread 03-16-2006, 10:39 PM   #19
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In add, about 82 % Canadian deaf people use ASL, 10% French Canadian deaf people use LSQ 4 % French Canadian deaf people use LSQ ( Signing exact French) 2% other signing language as LOVE, others signing languages.

FYI ASL and ESS called PSL. Today a lot of hearing people are learning PSL. Also some deaf people to use PSL.

Last edited by Duncan; 03-16-2006 at 10:57 PM.
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Unread 03-17-2006, 11:52 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan
I saw deaf people who live on Vancouver Island, everyone use SEE no ASL that sad.
Are they really using strong SEE in their everyday conversations? I find it almost impossible to sign SEE because it's so SLOW! I'm okay in signed English with some SEE words thrown in but that really is unfortunate if SEE is totally taking over there.
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