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Unread 01-25-2013, 07:39 PM   #1
MommaC
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WVSDB- Using SEE?

Hi, I'm Christie, Mom of a beautiful Deaf 3 month old. I realize that I'm probably getting way ahead of myself, but in my research I found out that WV School for the Deaf and Blind uses SEE exclusively. I am still learning a lot but understand that there are big differences between SEE and ASL, is this correct? My gut instinct has been that as a family we need to start using ASL to make sure that she has a good form of communication. My question is, are the two languages easily maneuvered between? I want to make sure that she doesn't graduate and find herself unable to communicate or fit in with people who primarily use ASL. Also, any feedback on the school itself would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
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Unread 01-25-2013, 09:02 PM   #2
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Hi Christie,
I do know that right now Deaf Ed is going through a huge sea change. By the time your daughter is old enough to go to Deaf School, they will all be bi-bi. Matter of fact I think right now WVSDB is on the verge of changing to Bi-Bi!
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Unread 01-25-2013, 09:04 PM   #3
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and yes, ASL is an awesome first language to have......
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Unread 01-25-2013, 09:10 PM   #4
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SEE is not a language. ASL is.

Thats the difference.
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Unread 01-25-2013, 09:34 PM   #5
MommaC
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Thank you, shel90. I'm still trying to figure it all out. Deafdyke, thanks. I guess that means I should focus my research on learning more about bi-bi.
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Unread 01-25-2013, 09:46 PM   #6
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Bi-Bi is basicly using ASL to teach English.
Excited that you've already decided she's going to Deaf School too! YAY!
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Unread 01-25-2013, 10:30 PM   #7
MommaC
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I guess what I'm confused about is that from what I'm told, sentence structure is different in asl than spoken english, but wvsdb signs exact english, so if she learns that way will she still be able to effectively communicate with others who use asl? Or am I not understanding this correctly? Thanks for all your help.
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Unread 03-20-2013, 10:03 AM   #8
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My humble opinion would be that the goal of teaching SEE would be so that a child can effectively communicate with others using ENGLISH. With SEE, written and spoken English could be grammatically correct, but it would have no bearing on how well the child can effectively use ASL.
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Unread 03-20-2013, 10:44 AM   #9
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Oh, boy, here we go again........
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Unread 03-20-2013, 11:04 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShilohBuchman View Post
My humble opinion would be that the goal of teaching SEE would be so that a child can effectively communicate with others using ENGLISH. With SEE, written and spoken English could be grammatically correct, but it would have no bearing on how well the child can effectively use ASL.
Video isn't captioned so for my Deaf friends, I will be captioning it for you. Ready?

"D'oh"

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Unread 03-20-2013, 11:50 AM   #11
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My humble opinion would be that the goal of teaching SEE would be so that a child can effectively communicate with others using ENGLISH. With SEE, written and spoken English could be grammatically correct, but it would have no bearing on how well the child can effectively use ASL.
Are you for real?
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Unread 03-20-2013, 11:54 AM   #12
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Oh, boy, here we go again........
Guess do you miss this kind of talk?
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Unread 03-20-2013, 11:58 AM   #13
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Angry

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShilohBuchman View Post
My humble opinion would be that the goal of teaching SEE would be so that a child can effectively communicate with others using ENGLISH. With SEE, written and spoken English could be grammatically correct, but it would have no bearing on how well the child can effectively use ASL.
Are you that ?!?!?!?!? Is your head stuck in the sand?!? I couldn't fathom that would have no bearing on how well the child can effectively use ASL!
That doesn't work that way, otherwise that would scramble a child's brain into oblivion!
"In my humble opinion", that is the most pathetic statement I ever heard of!
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Unread 03-20-2013, 02:39 PM   #14
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I guess we know who'll be jumping into this page as soon as she catches wind of it.
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Unread 03-20-2013, 05:34 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShilohBuchman View Post
My humble opinion would be that the goal of teaching SEE would be so that a child can effectively communicate with others using ENGLISH. With SEE, written and spoken English could be grammatically correct, but it would have no bearing on how well the child can effectively use ASL.
Gotta love hearing people and the whole "SEE is great" thing ...


The purpose of SEE is to be used in a strictly academic setting to teach English grammar components.

SEE is NOT a language, it's not meant to function as a language - which is good, because it does NOT function as a language.

Hearing people misunderstand how SEE relates to English, and even more, people misunderstand how SEE relates to ASL, and ASL to English.

If you're looking to instill a strong linguistic foundation, then ASL is what you need to use, because it is a complete language, and thus provides a complete language foundation to build on (once you understand how language "works" then learning additional languages is much easier).

Living in a multi-lingual country that is officially bi-lingual I can say that learning TWO complete languages (ASL and English) at the same time is not only "doable" it's beneficial.

Are there times when you might use SEE signs - sure, for example when I read a story book to kids I'll sign it using ASL first, and then we'll read the English words and use SEE to teach reading (then clarify meaning in ASL again).
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Unread 03-20-2013, 07:16 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShilohBuchman View Post
My humble opinion would be that the goal of teaching SEE would be so that a child can effectively communicate with others using ENGLISH. With SEE, written and spoken English could be grammatically correct, but it would have no bearing on how well the child can effectively use ASL.

Not always. I have seen many children start of with SEE and end up with poor literacy skills.

I have seen evidence of that on AD with former members who grew up with SEE. They had a problem with constantly misunderstanding what others wrote and would always get pissed off for the littlest things thinking the other poster meant something totally different from what he/she really meant.

Also, it is not just only looking at incorrect grammar but one's ability to organize their thoughts as well.

SEE is not a language and by building a first language based on SEE is just TOO risky and the child could end up with language delays or deficient.

SEE is just a teaching tool. ASL is a language, not a teaching tool. Big difference.
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Unread 03-20-2013, 07:16 PM   #17
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I guess we know who'll be jumping into this page as soon as she catches wind of it.
Well, I jumped in first.
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Unread 03-20-2013, 07:38 PM   #18
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Not always. I have seen many children start of with SEE and end up with poor literacy skills.

I have seen evidence of that on AD with former members who grew up with SEE. They had a problem with constantly misunderstanding what others wrote and would always get pissed off for the littlest things thinking the other poster meant something totally different from what he/she really meant.

Also, it is not just only looking at incorrect grammar but one's ability to organize their thoughts as well.

SEE is not a language and by building a first language based on SEE is just TOO risky and the child could end up with language delays or deficient.

SEE is just a teaching tool. ASL is a language, not a teaching tool. Big difference.
I agree 100%! I know most of my friends who went through mainstream schools that were taught in all SEE have very poor literacy and English grammar skills. They now use ASL but too late to remedy the skills. That made me cringe when I read their writings. Same goes to former oral school kids. I was from oral school but my mom introduced me to the books at age of one that made me a true avid reader. (Picture books of course) That helped me with my literacy and English grammar skills tremendously. While I was in oral school, we used homemade, gestures and ASL in mix (in private out of staff's eyes) until I picked up ASL at age of 14. That is WHY ASL should be the utmost primary language for Deaf babies all the way.
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Unread 03-20-2013, 08:05 PM   #19
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I agree 100%! I know most of my friends who went through mainstream schools that were taught in all SEE have very poor literacy and English grammar skills. They now use ASL but too late to remedy the skills. That made me cringe when I read their writings. Same goes to former oral school kids. I was from oral school but my mom introduced me to the books at age of one that made me a true avid reader. (Picture books of course) That helped me with my literacy and English grammar skills tremendously. While I was in oral school, we used homemade, gestures and ASL in mix (in private out of staff's eyes) until I picked up ASL at age of 14. That is WHY ASL should be the utmost primary language for Deaf babies all the way.
;
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Unread 03-20-2013, 08:08 PM   #20
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I agree 100%! I know most of my friends who went through mainstream schools that were taught in all SEE have very poor literacy and English grammar skills. They now use ASL but too late to remedy the skills. That made me cringe when I read their writings. Same goes to former oral school kids. I was from oral school but my mom introduced me to the books at age of one that made me a true avid reader. (Picture books of course) That helped me with my literacy and English grammar skills tremendously. While I was in oral school, we used homemade, gestures and ASL in mix (in private out of staff's eyes) until I picked up ASL at age of 14. That is WHY ASL should be the utmost primary language for Deaf babies all the way.
It is NEVER too late. It's certainly harder but it is never too late. That is a FACT!
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Unread 03-20-2013, 08:13 PM   #21
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It is NEVER too late. It's certainly harder but it is never too late. That is a FACT!
True but most said they don't bother with it and stick with ASL. Remember that they included me were in schools from age 2 and over till graduation are tired of learning all over again. Some can catch up while others continue struggling. Two way street.....
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Unread 03-20-2013, 09:10 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shel90 View Post
Not always. I have seen many children start of with SEE and end up with poor literacy skills.

I have seen evidence of that on AD with former members who grew up with SEE. They had a problem with constantly misunderstanding what others wrote and would always get pissed off for the littlest things thinking the other poster meant something totally different from what he/she really meant.

Also, it is not just only looking at incorrect grammar but one's ability to organize their thoughts as well.

SEE is not a language and by building a first language based on SEE is just TOO risky and the child could end up with language delays or deficient.

SEE is just a teaching tool. ASL is a language, not a teaching tool. Big difference.
Exactly!!!!!! Deaf kids deserve ASL first. They may use SEE in English class, but their primary LANGUAGE needs to be ASL. The problem with using SEE as a first "language" is basicly the same problem with using Cued Speech as a first "language"
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Unread 03-20-2013, 09:59 PM   #23
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Exactly!!!!!! Deaf kids deserve ASL first. They may use SEE in English class, but their primary LANGUAGE needs to be ASL. The problem with using SEE as a first "language" is basicly the same problem with using Cued Speech as a first "language"
SEE, Cued Speech, SimCom, TC and PSE are NOT even "language" at all. I wish you stop using them as "language." They are just communication tools, nothing else.
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Unread 03-20-2013, 10:22 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneMisha View Post
SEE, Cued Speech, SimCom, TC and PSE are NOT even "language" at all. I wish you stop using them as "language." They are just communication tools, nothing else.
That is why I put language in "quotation" marks.
I can see how SEE and Cued Speech COULD be used as a "bridge" to English, by being used in English class. Note I said COULD. ASL needs to be used for the CONTENT, since it's easiest for dhh kids to understand......SimCom and TC are screwed up since you need to keep the languages separate.
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Unread 03-20-2013, 11:05 PM   #25
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That is why I put language in "quotation" marks.
I can see how SEE and Cued Speech COULD be used as a "bridge" to English, by being used in English class. Note I said COULD. ASL needs to be used for the CONTENT, since it's easiest for dhh kids to understand......SimCom and TC are screwed up since you need to keep the languages separate.
I know but don't use that because it sends mix signals.
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Unread 03-21-2013, 12:42 AM   #26
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what should be more important is the academics. Does the school have a good graduation rate? How many of the students go on to college? Does the school offer AP classes? If SEE is the only downside then the others, grad rate,AP and college track,should trump ASL. You have to know they students will use ASL outside the classroom and with you at home.
Don't need to focus so much on the signs if the academics are good to great
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Unread 03-23-2013, 01:24 AM   #27
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what should be more important is the academics. Does the school have a good graduation rate? How many of the students go on to college? Does the school offer AP classes? If SEE is the only downside then the others, grad rate,AP and college track,should trump ASL. You have to know they students will use ASL outside the classroom and with you at home.
Don't need to focus so much on the signs if the academics are good to great
Why is college so important? I DO think that there needs to be a college track, and there are some WVSDB kids who attend college.....But I also think that there needs to be attention paid to skilled job training. Also people need to realize that while Deaf Schools may not score super high on tests,(for a variety of reasons) many of them can still give their students functional academic abilty......Yes, I know it's better to score on par BUT a) testing can be a HUGE scam even in the hearing world....and b) At least many of the kids who test below grade level, have functional academic abilty. From the bashing from certain quarters you would think that Deaf Schools mostly produce kids who can't even write or read a kindergarten level book. There ARE some deaf school kids like that yes....but hearing schools ALSO produce HEARING kids like that too! And a lot of the times it's due to kids having missed out in the mainstream, or badly trained teachers or many other circumstances......I mean yes a more then fourth grade level is good....but at least with a fourth grade level, the kid has at least SOME functional abilty, and could do factory work or other semi skilled work.
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Unread 03-23-2013, 02:37 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneMisha View Post
I agree 100%! I know most of my friends who went through mainstream schools that were taught in all SEE have very poor literacy and English grammar skills. They now use ASL but too late to remedy the skills. That made me cringe when I read their writings. Same goes to former oral school kids. I was from oral school but my mom introduced me to the books at age of one that made me a true avid reader. (Picture books of course) That helped me with my literacy and English grammar skills tremendously. While I was in oral school, we used homemade, gestures and ASL in mix (in private out of staff's eyes) until I picked up ASL at age of 14. That is WHY ASL should be the utmost primary language for Deaf babies all the way.
Quick question.............do you agree with using SEE SOME of the time? Humble opinon. They need to concentrate on ASL for CONTENT for most subjects. They COULD use Cued Speech (the way hearing children use phonics) or SEE as a "bridge" to English in English/reading class....But they need to be LIMITED to that class
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Unread 03-23-2013, 03:11 AM   #29
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And I think that WVSDB is not exactly reknown. But hopefully that will change.....It does have the beginnings of potential to be a good school..Like it has a program for multihandicapped kids ...As I said it's in the works to turn into a good school.....and it's a resource that's desperately needed. West Virginia isn't a great state for education overall...Why not make the D&B school a good resource for the kids who are in really bad towns?
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Unread 03-27-2013, 04:24 PM   #30
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SEE, Cued Speech, SimCom, TC and PSE are NOT even "language" at all. I wish you stop using them as "language." They are just communication tools, nothing else.
exactly SEE.

PSE is risk on SEE is sign language on pretty deaf/Hoh community, many people risk confuse to understand clear interpreter SEE. language doesn't work .

access commmunication.. Burden Communication hard to risky hard problem your misunderstand stuck. how do you stuck awkward to communication PSE risky. How language aware it limit SEE. that is perceptive. it is very risky on language own your language both grammar, it is pretty difficult!
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