Looking to Be Educated

Hello to all of those taking the time to read my post. My name is Rebecca and I am visiting this website and this forum in particular for educational purposes. I am an aspiring sociolinguist and am writing a paper on Deaf Culture and Cochlear Implants and what's been termed "Elective Disability." I'm not sure how I feel about that terminology but I'd like to hear from the deaf community.

If anyone would be willing to answer some questions, I would greatly appreciate it. Perhaps we could engage briefly in email later if that is agreed upon.

I am not terribly familiar with correct terminology surrounding deaf culture and if I misspeak please know that I mean no disrespect. I am here to learn.

1. Do you have a complete loss of hearing?
2. Were you born deaf?
3. Are your parents deaf?
4. What is the highest level of education you have completed?
5. What type of schools have you attended: public, private, specialty, etc.?
6. Have you had a cochlear implant to alter your hearing capabilities?
7. If you have had an implant, how successful has the procedure been?
8. If you have had an implant, what were the impacts to your life. Both positive and negative?
9. Have you, or has anyone you know, elected NOT to have cochlear implants (granted you or they qualified for the implant)?
10. As a member of the deaf community, what is your personal opinion of parents electing to have deaf children?

I thank you in advance for taking time to give me a glimpse into your life and community. Please feel free to reply to me by email.
writtenbyrebecca@yahoo

Rebecca

Elective disability? HUH? What the heck is that supposed to mean? People with CI are at BEST functionally HOH. Not hearing.

"Elective Disability"......really??????

Everything I find on "elective disability" originates from a report from the The Hastings Center. Smells a bit of Eugenics if you ask me.

"And in this context arise questions about the extent to which individuals with disabilities may decline treatments to ameliorate disabling conditions. When they do so, to what extent may they call upon society to provide supportive services and accommodations?"
-Deaf culture, cochlear implants, and elective disability.

I had Downs child I refused amniocentesis it same principle am I entitled to claim her disability money.It do sound like Eugenics and going to get some robust answers people may not like dreadful terminology shame which not your fault.
I deaf no CI would not want one now I was bad candidate...I seen them go badly wrong causing much distress..If I had qualified I proberly would had one but I never know

deafdyke said:

Elective disability? HUH? What the heck is that supposed to mean? People with CI are at BEST functionally HOH. Not hearing.

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Um, not quite....at Best we have 100% hearing...and many of us do

Elective disability--what is that even supposed to mean??? It's not like we had 100% hearing before we got CI's and just wanted to wear these cool processors....

what in the hell is an elective disability? And how the hell is deafness an elective disability? It's not like we chose to be deaf! We were either born deaf, or went deaf because of a disorder/illness/injury/etc. ...????!!!!!!! Yes, they can choose to stay deaf or treat it with hearing aids/cochlear implants, but even with hearing devices they're still deaf anyway. Hearing devices are not the perfect fix! It's a matter of personal preference. Nothing wrong with being DEAF 24/7, if one is happy with who they are.

School people really ought to go to the intro post and read http://www.alldeaf.com/showthread.php?t=65004 this post for cripes sake!


Sorry if I'm coming across as rude... I'm not in the best of moods today.

"Elective Disability."

Loss of hearing and deafness is not elective. I'm super shocked that term is being used.


1. Do you have a complete loss of hearing?

No - deaf in left ear, profoundly deaf in right. Have about 20% hearing in my right.

2. Were you born deaf?

Yes.. but my hearing loss is progressive and perm nerve damage.

3. Are your parents deaf?

No

4. What is the highest level of education you have completed?

College

5. What type of schools have you attended: public, private, specialty, etc.?

Just the regular public kind.

6. Have you had a cochlear implant to alter your hearing capabilities?

No - the idea personally scares me to death. Plus, I have been told that with my nerve damage, I'm not a candidate.

7. If you have had an implant, how successful has the procedure been?

N/A

8. If you have had an implant, what were the impacts to your life. Both positive and negative?

N/A

9. Have you, or has anyone you know, elected NOT to have cochlear implants (granted you or they qualified for the implant)?

N/A

10. As a member of the deaf community, what is your personal opinion of parents electing to have deaf children?

I'm not sure what kind of question this is? How does one "elect" to have a deaf child? I must have missed something here...

HOH-ME said:

Um, not quite....at Best we have 100% hearing...and many of us do

Elective disability--what is that even supposed to mean??? It's not like we had 100% hearing before we got CI's and just wanted to wear these cool processors....

Click to expand...

That's in best listening conditions usually done with a speaker who tends to have a professional speaker voice. Yes, some users of CI are superstars, but the overwhelming majority function as HOH. That's just a fact. Why is it that people act like you're saying that CI doesn't work, when you bring up the fact that it's a) LESS then hearing person hearing and b) end results from CI vary HUGELY!
If CIs give you absolutely perfect hearing then how come 95% of kids in a pediatric study by Johns Hopkins reported using EVERY and any traditional dhh accomondations up to and including interpreters, and closed captioned?
How come there are still a lot of CI users who have to use ALDs, Closed captioned and all those other things that hearing people don't?
How come in a June 2011 study by the International Journal of Otolarnology teachers in classrooms without terps (ie VERY oral ones with all the typical oral accomondations) reported that only about one third of children with CI were able to parcipatate easily?

deafdyke said:

That's in best listening conditions usually done with a speaker who tends to have a professional speaker voice. Yes, some users of CI are superstars, but the overwhelming majority function as HOH. That's just a fact. Why is it that people act like you're saying that CI doesn't work, when you bring up the fact that it's a) LESS then hearing person hearing and b) end results from CI vary HUGELY!

If CIs give you absolutely perfect hearing then how come 95% of kids in a pediatric study by Johns Hopkins reported using EVERY and any traditional dhh accomondations up to and including interpreters, and closed captioned?
How come there are still a lot of CI users who have to use ALDs, Closed captioned and all those other things that hearing people don't?

How come in a June 2011 study by the International Journal of Otolarnology teachers in classrooms without terps (ie VERY oral ones with all the typical oral accomondations) reported that only about one third of children with CI were able to parcipatate easily?

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Do you have links to where we can read any of these studies?

deafdyke said:

That's in best listening conditions usually done with a speaker who tends to have a professional speaker voice. Yes, some users of CI are superstars, but the overwhelming majority function as HOH. That's just a fact. Why is it that people act like you're saying that CI doesn't work, when you bring up the fact that it's a) LESS then hearing person hearing and b) end results from CI vary HUGELY!
If CIs give you absolutely perfect hearing then how come 95% of kids in a pediatric study by Johns Hopkins reported using EVERY and any traditional dhh accomondations up to and including interpreters, and closed captioned?
How come there are still a lot of CI users who have to use ALDs, Closed captioned and all those other things that hearing people don't?
How come in a June 2011 study by the International Journal of Otolarnology teachers in classrooms without terps (ie VERY oral ones with all the typical oral accomondations) reported that only about one third of children with CI were able to parcipatate easily?

Click to expand...

I'd be interested in links to the studies you mentioned too, if you can provide them.

HOH-ME didn't say that ALL people who wear cochlear implants have 100% hearing. HOH-ME said only that many do, so that implies that many do not. I don't see anything incorrect in what was said.

I don't think it's a bad thing if cochlear implant users still have to use telecoils, closed captioning, etc. I wear hearing aids due to moderate/severe hearing loss, and I have to use those things. In fact, at my home, we have closed captioning on all the time, and my husband with perfect hearing appreciates having CC on the tv because sometimes actors mumble (David Duchovny, I'm looking at you) and even people with "normal" hearing can't understand what they're saying. Just because a dhh person still uses closed captioning doesn't mean their hearing aids or cochlear implants aren't successful in helping them participate in the hearing world. Even though I still use CC, I usually only NEED it for about 10% of what is being said on the tv. I typically hear the other 90% fine without CC.

I would also hope that ALL dhh children (whether they have cochlear implants or not) would be provided with "EVERY and any traditional dhh accommodations up to and including interpreters, and closed captioning." Isn't that the kind of learning environment that is seen as ideal for dhh children? If any study came up with those results, I'd see that as an extremely good thing and a sign of a successful classroom setting. If the children with cochlear implants used closed captioning to help them, does the study you cite say whether all of those children actually NEEDED CC 100% of the time, or only 10% of the time like I do? Does the study say how long each of the children had been using their cochlear implants? How old the children were?

If you can link to those articles/studies, it would be very helpful in helping people determine for themselves how valid/valuable/accurate the information from them is.

Not sure how many of you remember how useful captions can be when one person in a household wants to watch TV and at least one other person wants to sleep. The TV watcher can turn off the sound and still know what is going on without disturbing the person sleeping.

I cannot quote a source but I have also heard of the use of captions to help in learning English as a second language (transition from Spanish to English for example).

Jane B. said:

Not sure how many of you remember how useful captions can be when one person in a household wants to watch TV and at least one other person wants to sleep. The TV watcher can turn off the sound and still know what is going on without disturbing the person sleeping.

I cannot quote a source but I have also heard of the use of captions to help in learning English as a second language (transition from Spanish to English for example).

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I could definitely see how closed captioning in the classroom and at home would help ALL children who are learning to read. I just wish closed captioning was more accurate in general. Sometimes it's just a bunch of nonsense letters, and sometimes CC only shows half of what is being said (the last half of sentences get left off). But it's much better to have than to not have

It's funny, but I can't tell you how many times, even with closed captioning on, my husband with perfect hearing asks me, "What did he/she say???" Often, I can tell him, because I can lipread and he can't - haha!

Crickets said:

I could definitely see how closed captioning in the classroom and at home would help ALL children who are learning to read. I just wish closed captioning was more accurate in general. Sometimes it's just a bunch of nonsense letters, and sometimes CC only shows half of what is being said (the last half of sentences get left off). But it's much better to have than to not have

It's funny, but I can't tell you how many times, even with closed captioning on, my husband with perfect hearing asks me, "What did he/she say???" Often, I can tell him, because I can lipread and he can't - haha!

Click to expand...

The main guy in charge of captioning at one of the TV stations that is local for me has such a small staff that he has asked me to keep telling him when I get problems. Lately they had a computer problem which resulted in them doing the following. So, as you see, some of it is the "gliches" that are just part of the use of computers.

[FONT=&quot]We are currently using a dial up interface from our captioners to the encoder while we troubleshoot a computer network problem. The telephone line has caused intermittent garbling of the caption data. We hope to be on a computer network connection in a couple of days.[/FONT]

RLDawson said:

Hello to all of those taking the time to read my post. My name is Rebecca and I am visiting this website and this forum in particular for educational purposes. I am an aspiring sociolinguist and am writing a paper on Deaf Culture and Cochlear Implants and what's been termed "Elective Disability." I'm not sure how I feel about that terminology but I'd like to hear from the deaf community.

If anyone would be willing to answer some questions, I would greatly appreciate it. Perhaps we could engage briefly in email later if that is agreed upon.

I am not terribly familiar with correct terminology surrounding deaf culture and if I misspeak please know that I mean no disrespect. I am here to learn.

1. Do you have a complete loss of hearing?
2. Were you born deaf?
3. Are your parents deaf?
4. What is the highest level of education you have completed?
5. What type of schools have you attended: public, private, specialty, etc.?
6. Have you had a cochlear implant to alter your hearing capabilities?
7. If you have had an implant, how successful has the procedure been?
8. If you have had an implant, what were the impacts to your life. Both positive and negative?
9. Have you, or has anyone you know, elected NOT to have cochlear implants (granted you or they qualified for the implant)?
10. As a member of the deaf community, what is your personal opinion of parents electing to have deaf children?

I thank you in advance for taking time to give me a glimpse into your life and community. Please feel free to reply to me by email.
writtenbyrebecca@yahoo

Rebecca

Click to expand...

1. I am deaf. Besides the dead people i hear at times, ringing in my left.ear..
2. Born hearie,.got lucky, deaf at 9
3parents are hearie
4, besides somw strecthes iN the joint. Ive completed no post secondary education but was a gally hound...
5 hearie school until 9, gov resedential school for the deaf from 9 to gally. Then gally, i also attended hearie universities, but washed out
6. No
7. ....
8. .....
9. As i told my doc. Ill let you drill a hole in my head, if i can drill one in yours...he didnt accept the bargain.
10. Electing as in choosing not to have their deaf chikdren experemented on and wee heads drilled into?
I think these deaf parents are heros..

Jane B. said:

The main guy in charge of captioning at one of the TV stations that is local for me has such a small staff that he has asked me to keep telling him when I get problems. Lately they had a computer problem which resulted in them doing the following. So, as you see, some of it is the "gliches" that are just part of the use of computers.

[FONT=&quot]We are currently using a dial up interface from our captioners to the encoder while we troubleshoot a computer network problem. The telephone line has caused intermittent garbling of the caption data. We hope to be on a computer network connection in a couple of days.[/FONT]

Click to expand...

That's really great that they ask for your input

Jane B. said:

The main guy in charge of captioning at one of the TV stations that is local for me has such a small staff that he has asked me to keep telling him when I get problems. Lately they had a computer problem which resulted in them doing the following. So, as you see, some of it is the "gliches" that are just part of the use of computers.

[FONT=&quot]We are currently using a dial up interface from our captioners to the encoder while we troubleshoot a computer network problem. The telephone line has caused intermittent garbling of the caption data. We hope to be on a computer network connection in a couple of days.[/FONT]

Click to expand...

I've been having trouble with some captioning on just one of the tv stations that I watch, captioning on all other stations is fine. I am working with someone at this tv station, who is getting in touch with a technician, but so far no improvement. I do give them credit for trying and I expect further notice of the problem.

I rely completely on captions, my husband doesn't mind having them on.

Not saying that those accomondations are bad.... Just that the overwhelming majority of HEARING people don't use them. HARD OF HEARING people use them! ...So basicly most people who have the CI are pretty much functionally HOH. Especially since most (3 out of four) people with audilogical hearing loss are CHILDREN! The Johns Hopkins study says that 95% still function as HOH... I just LOVE how people act like they're so invested in How Well the CI Works that they act like stock is going to bottom out b/c the product isn't being painted In The Best Possible Light.I remember about ten years ago they were pushing research into CI MEMs which were supposed to more closely mimic what hearing people hear.......and I mean if CIs are so amazing why are ex hearing people looking for a cure?
Just as with HAs, the performance of CIs varies HUGELY.... There are some subgroups that have really good performance, but just as with HAs, the performance of CIs is VERY INDIVDUAL. Again, I'm not pulling a Radical Deaf Activist POV and bashing CIs, saying they don't work....I'm just saying that the performance varies a lot!

deafdyke said:

Not saying that those accomondations are bad.... Just that the overwhelming majority of HEARING people don't use them. HARD OF HEARING people use them! ...So basicly most people who have the CI are pretty much functionally HOH. Especially since most (3 out of four) people with audilogical hearing loss are CHILDREN! The Johns Hopkins study says that 95% still function as HOH... I just LOVE how people act like they're so invested in How Well the CI Works that they act like stock is going to bottom out b/c the product isn't being painted In The Best Possible Light.

Click to expand...

deafdyke, please provide links that support your statistics, otherwise we don't know if you're just making them up or if you are quoting them correctly. For instance, this statement of yours is wrong and I'm not sure what it has to do with the other things you said, or where you got the information in the first place because you didn't provide a link:

"Especially since most (3 out of four) people with audilogical hearing loss are CHILDREN!"

Click to expand...

Audiological means the study of hearing disorders, so there's no such thing as "audiological hearing loss." If you mean that 3 out of 4 people with any hearing loss are children, that is wrong, because most people with hearing loss are those who lose their hearing as they get older. According to the Hearing Health Foundation, "In the United States, three out of every 1,000 children are born deaf or hard-of-hearing. Hearing loss becomes more prevalent with age; hearing impairment occurs in about 18% of American adults between ages 45 and 54, 30% of adults between ages 65 and 74, and 47% of adults ages 75 and older." (http://hearinghealthfoundation.org/index.php?pg=statistics&gclid=CLz_gPGxzcQCFUlp7Aod8zUAhQ) At the bottom of their web page, they provide links for where they got those statistics.

Here are more statistics from the National Institutes of Health related to cochlear implants and children (although I can't tell if they have anything to do with what you were trying to say): "Nearly 188,000 individuals worldwide are fitted with a cochlear implant. In the United States, more than 41,000 adults and nearly 26,000 children have one. NIH-supported scientists showed that profoundly deaf children who receive a cochlear implant at a young age develop language skills at a rate comparable to children with normal hearing. Although the benefits of the cochlear implant can vary among individual users, improvements in speech processors and other related technologies allow children with cochlear implants to succeed in mainstream classrooms. NIH-supported scientists found that the benefits of the cochlear implant far outweigh its costs in children. A cochlear implant costs approximately $60,000 (including the surgery, adjustments, and training). In comparison, the services, special education, and adaptation related to a child that is deaf before age three costs more than $1 million." (http://report.nih.gov/nihfactsheets/ViewFactSheet.aspx?csid=83)

I see points of both DD and Crickets...but what came to mind when I saw that quote from the studies- who paid for them?

....what does it mean to "succeed" - succeed according to Hearing?

....and once again the emphasis on mainstreaming which I've learned from d/Deaf people is actually usually very isolating

and "language skills" -is that code for "speech"? Many times "speech" and language" are used interchangeable, when the actual desired result is spoken language, which is perceived as superior