Deaf children and hearing parents...why don't the parents learn sl?

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Holly

Holly

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I'm a hearing person but I've known and heard of so many people who were deaf, as in completely or almost completely non hearing, whose parents never bothered to learn sign language. I guess I understand if the child is hoh to a certain extent they can understand oral language well, but when the child has no hearing at all, I don't think its fair to force them to read lips! Especially when the child attends a deaf school and is very obviously learning and speaking ASL or some other form.
To me thats like having a child that can only speak french, and will never be able to learn another language well enough to effectively communicate without frustration. If I had a child like that...I'd suck it up and learn french! I don't understand how you can basically tell your child you don't want to communicate with them!
Of course I understand that just because you are completely deaf does not mean you can't speak or read lips well, I can only imagine of course but I think we all understand that reading lips gets hard, especially in a group setting when you have to figure out who is talking!
I guess all I'm saying is that if I ever have a deaf child I'll make every effort possible to communicate effectively, whatever way is best for them.
 
I think part of it might be burnout. Most Sign using kids, are oral failures. The oral route can be extremely intensive. It can be incredibily easy for parents to burn out on that............I mean going oral only is basicly speech therapy 24/7. Not formal speech therapy, but I mean parents are encouraged to turn every and any experiance into a "learning experiance."
 
I also think another cause is that many parents do actually start with ASL, as a part of a toolbox that have it all. The problem is they often get very surprised at the rapid rate their child is developing at, and notice that their child also starts to pick up the home language and speech skills, especially when speaking with family members and hearing people. At that moment, some parents starts to belive that their child really don't need sign language, and find a mainstream program or an oral school, and stop put more effort into sign language.

Deaf students have historically been punished if they pick up speech and don't make noise in the classroom. The norm is that the troubled children, the most delayed children, gets the best ASL resources, while those who manage to develop bilingual skills or speech are put into intensive oral classes or gets a teacher with lousy signing skills but well trained in special pedagogy or specific methods.

So in some ways, it does pay of for deaf and hoh children to don't get early ASL, missing out language skills to develop speech, and get so language deprived so they can enjoy the social experiences in state deaf schools.

I don't blame the parents, the majority have a view on ASL as a last resort tool in special education, and this influences parents skills in ASL enormously.
 
I'm hh - I'm profoundly deaf on my right side, and have hearing loss on my left as well

Growing up my parent were told my the Audies that I should just talk, that all I needed was Preferential Seating and that I'd be fine - and that I should absolutely NOT learn Sign Language (from they're perspective this was a broad spectrum term in this case for anything from cueing to ASL)

My parents didn't understand that "deaf" meant I have no hearing on my right side - in fact my mum recently told me that she thought when they said "deaf" she thought it meant "sounds muffled". I spoke reasonably well (I have problems with "s" "sh" "th" "r") so they just when with the Audies recommendation. They were also told that if I used "sign language" then I'd stop talking, and a number of other things which are just false.

I had to wait almost 20 years to finally start ASL classes ... things are better with my mum now ... she actually took ASL 1-3 (a series of 6 levels) and has worked as a TA with a few hh & d kids now.

My mum's attitude has changed so much she now can't fathom WHY everyone with HL and their families don't at least take a basic class. It's been a hard road - I'm upset at the old Audies - and my mum I think almost feels betrayed by them ... she often says she wishes it could have been different - and if she had have known then what she knows now I would have learned ASL as a young child. Believe it or not the first time my mum say my Audiogram was when I was 25 - she never realized that I really was "off the meter" "tactile response only" on my right side ...

anyway .. I"m rambling .. but that's my story
 
The problem is hearing parents are forgetting that language and speech has two different meanings. while speech is taught by wording out individual sounds, and making out words in sentences. Language is communication, how we are taught to learn, while we cannot hear, we have to use our visual to learn a language. Replying on oral is not the right routine to start off with, I believe sign language is the routine that deaf children should start off with, the moment they arrive in this world.

My parents never knew that sign language existence during the 70's they were recommended to enroll us in oral programs, if they wish for us to continuing with our speech skills. Signs never had been mention until much much later, and that's a shame. Indeed I'll say there's a lot of bias sources back then. I believe that Medical Specialists, audiologists, or any professionals needs to provide information on all methodology choices, so that hearing parents can determining on which methodology choice they prefer that would work for their deaf child. I don't believe in forcing a methodology on a deaf child, to cause some future frustration to the child. That's just my opinion.

If I had a deaf child, I would choose to go with sign and speech, Not sign language only, or speech skills only example as in oral method.
 
Holly said:
Of course I understand that just because you are completely deaf does not mean you can't speak or read lips well, I can only imagine of course but I think we all understand that reading lips gets hard, especially in a group setting when you have to figure out who is talking!
I guess all I'm saying is that if I ever have a deaf child I'll make every effort possible to communicate effectively, whatever way is best for them.
Click to expand...

Holly, I wish there are more of you than the other kind. The reasons I can think of why they don't learn SL is... 1) they are in denial about their kid's deafness 2) They look down on SL 3) They probably feel stupid if they sign 4) If they have their child implant with one or two cochlear implants, they most likely won't sign as they think the child can hear now and/or they bought the myth that if the child learn SL, they would rely on SL more than speaking/hearing.

I have had speech therapy with and without SL. I found I learn more with SL than without. I used to speak nasally until I had that speech therapy in college (with SL). I remember when I was very little at the oral school, the teacher would hold my nose. That just scared me and I didn't know I was supposed to hold my nose except for certain sounds until I was in college.
 
flip said:
I also think another cause is that many parents do actually start with ASL, as a part of a toolbox that have it all. The problem is they often get very surprised at the rapid rate their child is developing at, and notice that their child also starts to pick up the home language and speech skills, especially when speaking with family members and hearing people. At that moment, some parents starts to belive that their child really don't need sign language, and find a mainstream program or an oral school, and stop put more effort into sign language.

Deaf students have historically been punished if they pick up speech and don't make noise in the classroom. The norm is that the troubled children, the most delayed children, gets the best ASL resources, while those who manage to develop bilingual skills or speech are put into intensive oral classes or gets a teacher with lousy signing skills but well trained in special pedagogy or specific methods.

So in some ways, it does pay of for deaf and hoh children to don't get early ASL, missing out language skills to develop speech, and get so language deprived so they can enjoy the social experiences in state deaf schools.

I don't blame the parents, the majority have a view on ASL as a last resort tool in special education, and this influences parents skills in ASL enormously.
Click to expand...
Yep, that's sorta what happened with my parents.

I started out in oral school and never signed until the age of 5. At age 5, we moved to another state and I went to mainstream school with a deaf program. I started out in the deaf program to help me adapt to deaf life there and that was when I was first exposed to the sign language world.

A few years later, I started going mainstream with interpreters. Even though I used sign language when I was in school, I never had the need to use it at home. I didn't have any deaf friends who lived nearby so no deaf friend could actually walk to my house to play.

Finally, high school was when I had deaf friends come over because they all now had cars.

However, it was too late for my parents since they grew up with me without using sign language for many years. Now, they wish they learned sign language.
 
I guess I understand if the child is hoh to a certain extent they can understand oral language well, but when the child has no hearing at all, I don't think its fair to force them to read lips!

The bolded statement was copied and pasted from the OP.

To my way of thinkiing, understanding to a "certain extent" is simply not enough. A child who is functionally hoh misses out on more than most people realize. Many may do well in a one on one situation, with no background noise, and good lighting. But change any one of those things, and the child starts to miss things. Change them all, and chances are they will not be picking up much more than a child who is profoundly deaf. Being able to hear sound, and being able to discriminate speech are two different things. A deaf child deserves full access to the world around them every bit as much as a hearing child does. The way to provide that access is through sign. Speech skills are important, and most certainly should be taught to those deaf children who are capable of developing speech skills. But it should never, never be left at that. We would not be satisfied with saying only every third word in a sentence and expect a hearing child to figure out what was going on. Or of leaving whole sentences out of a periphereal conversation. But that is exactly what happens to the deaf child in an oral only environment. And people, somehow, seem to think that's perfectly acceptable.

I've heard numerous excuses from hearing parents about why they don't learn sign for their deaf child. Personally, I don't find any of them valid.

Kudos to you, Holly, for understanding the importance of a visual communication for deaf kids! Wish there were more like you!
 
jillio said:
I've heard numerous excuses from hearing parents about why they don't learn sign for their deaf child. Personally, I don't find any of them valid.
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I agree.

Burnout is unacceptable excuse. You asked for a child, you got to accept the full package.

Even if it's an accident (you risking ask for child each time you have an intercourse.)
 
jillio said:
I guess I understand if the child is hoh to a certain extent they can understand oral language well, but when the child has no hearing at all, I don't think its fair to force them to read lips!

The bolded statement was copied and pasted from the OP.

To my way of thinkiing, understanding to a "certain extent" is simply not enough. A child who is functionally hoh misses out on more than most people realize. Many may do well in a one on one situation, with no background noise, and good lighting. But change any one of those things, and the child starts to miss things. Change them all, and chances are they will not be picking up much more than a child who is profoundly deaf. Being able to hear sound, and being able to discriminate speech are two different things. A deaf child deserves full access to the world around them every bit as much as a hearing child does. The way to provide that access is through sign. Speech skills are important, and most certainly should be taught to those deaf children who are capable of developing speech skills. But it should never, never be left at that. We would not be satisfied with saying only every third word in a sentence and expect a hearing child to figure out what was going on. Or of leaving whole sentences out of a periphereal conversation. But that is exactly what happens to the deaf child in an oral only environment. And people, somehow, seem to think that's perfectly acceptable.

I've heard numerous excuses from hearing parents about why they don't learn sign for their deaf child. Personally, I don't find any of them valid.

Kudos to you, Holly, for understanding the importance of a visual communication for deaf kids! Wish there were more like you!
Click to expand...

Silentwolfdog said:
I agree.

Burnout is unacceptable excuse. You asked for a child, you got to accept the full package.

Even if it's an accident (you risking ask for child each time you have an intercourse.)
Click to expand...


I agree so much with both of you!

jillio you make a good point when you say that being able to hear soud and discriminate speech are different things. Especially when you are faced with accents, muffled or slurred speech, or people who just don't enunciate well, not to mention the external factors like light and background noise. I have met many deaf/hoh people who are oral but also sign along with themselves, i have to say that it helps me understand them too, even though I don't know that much sl yet. But as I am finding, a lot of signs just "make sense" once you know what word or concept they represent.

And silentwolfdog, I also agree that burnout is not an excuse! Accepting the whole package is important to the child's healthy development!
 
To my way of thinkiing, understanding to a "certain extent" is simply not enough. A child who is functionally hoh misses out on more than most people realize. Many may do well in a one on one situation, with no background noise, and good lighting. But change any one of those things, and the child starts to miss things.
Click to expand...
OMG YES!!!!! Sign shouldn't just be for kids with deaf losses (severe and profound)
Hoh kids need a full toolbox.
One time in high school I got stuck with a teacher who had a VERY soft voice. I could speechread her, but not really "hear" her. Even my PARENTS (100% hearing) had trouble understanding her. The school made it sound like it was MY fault. (ie oh she's just gonna have to deal with it) At the time I didn't know Sign. If I'd known Sign, I could have made use of a 'terp. I'm great in perfect sittuions.....................but oral skills aren't perfect in every sitution.
 
Hi Holly...my brother and I were both born deaf. I was able to develop oral skills but he wasnt so he was sent to the Deaf school where he thrived on ASL. However, at home my parents never learned ASL nor exposed me to ASL so the mode of communication remained orally despite my brother having less than adequate lipreading and absulotely no speech skills. I always ended up the interpreter for him even though I didnt know any ASL at all. I was the only one my brother could understand and vice versa. Pretty sad state of affairs. I felt bad for my brother that none of us were willing to learn the only language that is fully accessible to him.

I finally learned ASL in my 20s and my brother and I are very very tight. My family still hasnt learned.


I work with deaf children..About half of their parents are fluent in ASL while the other half arent.

I agree with Jillo...there is no excuse valid enough not to learn the language their child speaks.
 
Holly,
Welcome !
Holly said:
............
I guess all I'm saying is that if I ever have a deaf child I'll make every effort possible to communicate effectively, whatever way is best for them.
Click to expand...
Excellent idea! That's what we did.

Now, imagine. All spanish-speaking family (parents, grandparents, friends) , living fully english speaking part of the USA (friends, school, shops etc..)..
What mode of communication will you choose to make sure your child will be able to communicate with family & grandparents who only speak spanish, but also with the english-speaking friends and family?

Are you going to learn 2 different sign-languages? Make evryone speak sign?
Are you going to stick to 1 sign-language.
Will you make a decision to have your child being able to hear sound, and learn to speak multiple languages?
 
Cloggy said:
Holly,
Welcome !
Excellent idea! That's what we did.

Now, imagine. All spanish-speaking family (parents, grandparents, friends) , living fully english speaking part of the USA (friends, school, shops etc..)..
What mode of communication will you choose to make sure your child will be able to communicate with family & grandparents who only speak spanish, but also with the english-speaking friends and family?

Are you going to learn 2 different sign-languages? Make evryone speak sign?
Are you going to stick to 1 sign-language.
Will you make a decision to have your child being able to hear sound, and learn to speak multiple languages?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the welcome Cloggy:), thats a very good point. I think its important to expose our children to languages they may come in contact with. Therefore, if my child was mildly hoh I think it would be in their best interest to learn both oral languages, and probably have one dominant form of sign, whichever one would be most useful in the community. Hopefully they would be around both english and spanish growing up so fewer formal lessons are needed. However, if my child was profoundly hoh/deaf I would say it is up to the family on whether or not they would ever like to communicate with him/her.
Now here's the part where it might get tricky. Since my deaf child was born into a world where two languages are spoken, it might be in their best interest to learn both american sign and spanish sign. It might make it a little easier on the spanish relatives because they can use spanish sign, in which I assume the concepts and words would make more sense to them, and the english speaking or american family members could use american sign. If I had the means I would probably offer to pay for signing classes to all my family members if they wanted. If I didn't have the means I would suggest they do it anyway, it is up to them if they want to communicate with my child.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to introduce both american and spanish sign language to a child who is growing up in both worlds. It could benefit them if they ever went to a spanish speaking country, and because they might run into a spanish deaf person in america who speaks spanish sign.

Depending on the situation I would say that having a dominant sign language (whichever one would be used most frequently in the household and community) might be easiest, but it wouldn't hurt to learn a little of the other one too. Hey at least they could say they know more than one language, a lot of us hearies would kill to be able to say that!

:type:
 
Holly said:
Thanks for the welcome Cloggy:), thats a very good point. I think its important to expose our children to languages they may come in contact with. Therefore, if my child was mildly hoh I think it would be in their best interest to learn both oral languages, and probably have one dominant form of sign, whichever one would be most useful in the community. Hopefully they would be around both english and spanish growing up so fewer formal lessons are needed. However, if my child was profoundly hoh/deaf I would say it is up to the family on whether or not they would ever like to communicate with him/her.
Now here's the part where it might get tricky. Since my deaf child was born into a world where two languages are spoken, it might be in their best interest to learn both american sign and spanish sign. It might make it a little easier on the spanish relatives because they can use spanish sign, in which I assume the concepts and words would make more sense to them, and the english speaking or american family members could use american sign. If I had the means I would probably offer to pay for signing classes to all my family members if they wanted. If I didn't have the means I would suggest they do it anyway, it is up to them if they want to communicate with my child.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to introduce both american and spanish sign language to a child who is growing up in both worlds. It could benefit them if they ever went to a spanish speaking country, and because they might run into a spanish deaf person in america who speaks spanish sign.

Depending on the situation I would say that having a dominant sign language (whichever one would be used most frequently in the household and community) might be easiest, but it wouldn't hurt to learn a little of the other one too. Hey at least they could say they know more than one language, a lot of us hearies would kill to be able to say that!

:type:
Click to expand...

Excellent reply, Holly. Quite obviously, you have thought about this issue quite a lot, and have become capable of addressing the issue from the perspective of the deaf child rather than the hearing parent. I applaud your openmindedness. A deaf child would indeed be at an advantage having you as a hearing parent.
 
jillio said:
Excellent reply, Holly. Quite obviously, you have thought about this issue quite a lot, and have become capable of addressing the issue from the perspective of the deaf child rather than the hearing parent. I applaud your openmindedness. A deaf child would indeed be at an advantage having you as a hearing parent.
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Thanks:) I have indeed thought it over, although i'm just 22 i've considered adopting a deaf child if I get married, at least I know they will be in good hands and not get returned!!!!!!!
 
Holly said:
Thanks:) I have indeed thought it over, although i'm just 22 i've considered adopting a deaf child if I get married, at least I know they will be in good hands and not get returned!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

:hug: Intelligence and the ability the be empathic have nothing to do with age. You have developed the skill quite well at 22....there are others who will not have it even at 72!:cool:
 
Holly said:
Thanks:) I have indeed thought it over, although i'm just 22 i've considered adopting a deaf child if I get married, at least I know they will be in good hands and not get returned!!!!!!!
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Wow! We need more hearing people like u who respect the language we, deaf people, cherish.
 
shel90 said:
Wow! We need more hearing people like u who respect the language we, deaf people, cherish.
Click to expand...

and there need to be more people who realize that it is indeed a language! not just monkey talk and grunts:giggle:
 
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