The Origins of Homosexuality

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Reba said:
Obama can't monitor the front lines but no worry . . . he has you to sit in at every briefing in the Iraq war theater to report what's going on. :lol:
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Can we be sure about that? I mean, he's pretty serious about his golfing schedule.
 
Beowulf said:
I have the feeling Obama is aware of our military going a bit overboard on their missions. For example, it is practically standard procedure for soldiers to carry "drop weapons" in case they kill an unarmed civilian. This has been going on in all wars, something else I am sure he knows. Where are the written regs for that?
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Like I said, in several posts, if they are doing something outside of regs, they are committing illegal actions.

It's interesting that Bush took all kinds of heat for anything the military did on his watch but Obama gets no criticism at all for what happens during his watch. :hmm:
 
I hear plenty of criticism. Especially since Obama said he would close Gitmo and he didn't.
 
jillio said:
I don't have to. I talk with the returning veterans who have great difficulty functioning when they return thanks to what they were subjected to.:cool2:
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Are you referring to what they were subjected to by their superior officers' indoctrination?

Their sheer numbers belies your claims that it doesn't happen. It happens, and it happens on a consistent basis.
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"It?" The indoctrination against "godless Iraqis?"
 
jillio said:
Oh, I see. It has to be written down somewhere and sanctioned to be occuring?
Riiiight.:roll:
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The military runs on regulations. They are written down, copied, distributed, cataloged. Everything that you do is laid out in extreme detail. Each department, command, staff, company, etc. does it and each senior command conducts routine inspections of all regulations and commands under them. All levels of command eventually end up to the Pentagon level. Then the JCS report to the existing civilian levels right up to the President.

When a military leader approves a plan of attack for instance, he/she must get permission sighting regulation ###### or approved OPLAN (Operational Plan)#####.

Submarine commanders cannot fire upon any country just because he wants to. He gets permission.

Air Force bases cannot launch aircraft loaded with weapons against others without permission, etc.

So when a senior member of the armed forces starts "indoctrinating" his subordinates. No mater what it is. If it is not ordered by regulation and approved by higher authority, it is illegal and should be reported. I have seen many a service member punished under the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) for violating a written regulation or order. Others punished for making something up. Being the Legal Yeoman of many commands might have giving me insight. Talk back to your boss, leave your assigned work space without an ok, fail to complete an assigned task can get you confined with 3 days of bread and water only or worse.

For you to insinuate that we "Reba and I" after 45 years of combined military service don't know what we are talking about is laughable. :laugh2:

When President Obama ordered the "go" to take out pirates to save that American ship captain, it was written regulations that required his permission based upon the circumstance. The CO of that ship received a written order or confirmed radio transmission to make it happen.

If returning service members are saying stuff that is made up, it is them who are stirring up trouble. If it is true, it is their duty to report it to make it known.

And as an aside, yes there are more PTSD cases than in the past due to the long deployments under hostile conditions.
 
Beowulf said:
I have the feeling Obama is aware of our military going a bit overboard on their missions. For example, it is practically standard procedure for soldiers to carry "drop weapons" in case they kill an unarmed civilian. This has been going on in all wars, something else I am sure he knows. Where are the written regs for that?
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There are no written regs for that. That is illegal and when they are caught like some recently were are now in prison. :hmm:
 
TinCanSailor said:
The military runs on regulations. They are written down, copied, distributed, cataloged. Everything that you do is laid out in extreme detail. Each department, command, staff, company, etc. does it and each senior command conducts routine inspections of all regulations and commands under them. All levels of command eventually end up to the Pentagon level. Then the JCS report to the existing civilian levels right up to the President.

When a military leader approves a plan of attack for instance, he/she must get permission sighting regulation ###### or approved OPLAN (Operational Plan)#####.

Submarine commanders cannot fire upon any country just because he wants to. He gets permission.

Air Force bases cannot launch aircraft loaded with weapons against others without permission, etc.

So when a senior member of the armed forces starts "indoctrinating" his subordinates. No mater what it is. If it is not ordered by regulation and approved by higher authority, it is illegal and should be reported. I have seen many a service member punished under the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) for violating a written regulation or order. Others punished for making something up. Being the Legal Yeoman of many commands might have giving me insight. Talk back to your boss, leave your assigned work space without an ok, fail to complete an assigned task can get you confined with 3 days of bread and water only or worse.

For you to insinuate that we "Reba and I" after 45 years of combined military service don't know what we are talking about is laughable. :laugh2:

When President Obama ordered the "go" to take out pirates to save that American ship captain, it was written regulations that required his permission based upon the circumstance. The CO of that ship received a written order or confirmed radio transmission to make it happen.

If returning service members are saying stuff that is made up, it is them who are stirring up trouble. If it is true, it is their duty to report it to make it known.

And as an aside, yes there are more PTSD cases than in the past due to the long deployments under hostile conditions.
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Has Obama ever made a consistent effort to visit wounded soldiers or families of fallen soldiers on a regular basis? I was most impressed when GWB did this often, and visited families of fallen soldiers although his visitations weren't publicized in details until years later did we know. God bless him.
 
Trying to figure out what country in the world treats it's veterans as bad as USA...
 
TCS, you can't be naive enough to think that illegal things don't happen in any institution. I've seen documents documenting illegal actions. You'd think that people would be smarter than that. My theory is that the people who do this are so narcissistic that they believe they will never be caught. All entities have people that act outside the bounds of the law. Often, superior agents cover it up.
 
sallylou said:
TCS, you can't be naive enough to think that illegal things don't happen in any institution. I've seen documents documenting illegal actions. You'd think that people would be smarter than that. My theory is that the people who do this are so narcissistic that they believe they will never be caught. All entities have people that act outside the bounds of the law. Often, superior agents cover it up.
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I can think of a recent example right here on this forum. There was a certain poster who thought she'd never get caught when she created several accounts. she got caught and I think - perna ban - from AD for her actions. I'll grant that no mods covered up her actions..
 
kokonut said:
Has Obama ever made a consistent effort to visit wounded soldiers or families of fallen soldiers on a regular basis? I was most impressed when GWB did this often, and visited families of fallen soldiers although his visitations weren't publicized in details until years later did we know. God bless him.
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Ya know, perhaps Bush had more time to visit injured vets since he gave up golf once the war started. Those rounds Obama has played so far amount to 600 hours he could have spent with vets. *shrug*

At least he raced from the golf course to watch OBL get taken out,
 
sallylou said:
TCS, you can't be naive enough to think that illegal things don't happen in any institution. I've seen documents documenting illegal actions. You'd think that people would be smarter than that. My theory is that the people who do this are so narcissistic that they believe they will never be caught. All entities have people that act outside the bounds of the law. Often, superior agents cover it up.
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If you notice I did say if anything that was not regulated or ordered is illegal. I agree people think they can get away with just about anything.

Presidents Nixon and Clinton, former IL Governor George Ryan, Hedge Fund founder Raj Rajaratnam, former congressman James Traficant, former Cheney Chief of Staff "Scooter" Libby, Associate Attorney General Webster Hubble, CO of USS C. E. Williams, Commander Paul Marquis (allowing fraternization on his ship), CO of USS Sullivans, Commander Mark Olson (fired upon a fishing boat by accident), CO Logistics Aviation Unit Bahrain, Captain David Geisler (loss of confidence to lead), CO USS Ponce, Captain Holly Graf (cruelty to her crew), etc.

All of these people were either censured, jailed, or removed from a position of authority. These are supposed to be the brightest of the bright.

These are just a small sampling of people who think they don't have to follow regulations (LAW).
 
I just had to add this one from last week:

CO USS Ponce, Commander Jones failed to report and take proper corrective action for hazing and for poor judgment during a security drill where she endangered two sailors with a loaded...weapon. Upon conclusion of the Mast, [her superior] relieved CDR Jones of her command due to loss of confidence stemming from the aforementioned Mast, unprofessional conduct, rendering her chain-of-command largely ineffective by marginalizing her senior leaders and displaying blatant favoritism to select junior officers, and for cultivating a hostile work environment permeated by verbal abuse, fear, and intimidation.

She was the replacement for Captain Graf I just mentioned. So sad: :(
 
TinCanSailor said:
I just had to add this one from last week:

CO USS Ponce, Commander Jones failed to report and take proper corrective action for hazing and for poor judgment during a security drill where she endangered two sailors with a loaded...weapon. Upon conclusion of the Mast, [her superior] relieved CDR Jones of her command due to loss of confidence stemming from the aforementioned Mast, unprofessional conduct, rendering her chain-of-command largely ineffective by marginalizing her senior leaders and displaying blatant favoritism to select junior officers, and for cultivating a hostile work environment permeated by verbal abuse, fear, and intimidation.

She was the replacement for Captain Graf I just mentioned. So sad: :(
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:shock:
 
While I'm at it before I forget, TCS, I just wanted to say thank you (and your wife) for your service in the military on helping protect the United States. Just as I'm proud of my brother and his son, my sister, and other relatives such as my cousin (who was killed in that famous fragging incident by a sargent in Kuwait who murdered two comrades and injured scores others) for their services.
 
I miss the good old days when the captain spoke, you trembled with fear and trepidation. Enjoyed watching the daily floggings, hoisting of the Jolly Roger flag, destroying the enemy with cannons and swords. Only bathed once a year and never shaved. Sailed for foreign islands, buried treasure and beautiful wenches. The only regulations were from the captain's mouth!

Oh wait! That was a movie I recently saw.......:laugh2:
 
kokonut said:
While I'm at it before I forget, TCS, I just wanted to say thank you (and your wife) for your service in the military on helping protect the United States. Just as I'm proud of my brother and his son, my sister, and other relatives such as my cousin (who was killed in that famous fragging incident by a sargent in Kuwait who murdered two comrades and injured scores others) for their services.
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Thank you. And thank you for your family's service and sacrifice also.
 
Regulations aren't laws. Congress passes laws. Agencies pass regulations based on laws. Regulations are great bedtime reading.

My dad was a WWII hero. He and all of my uncles were in the Army Airforce. I have respect for those guys. Not just someone that enjoys ordering people around.
 
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