US Gold Leaving for Asia

deafdrummer

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Take a look at this article to see what's happening... We are losing our asses! I see people standing in the middle of the streets with signs saying "We buy gold." I knew I was right. While Americans are selling gold to make ends meet, people in Asia, China and India included, are buying the stuff HAND-OVER-FIST! Hang on to your metal as long as possible!

U.S. gold bars and coins find new home overseas on Asian demand | Reuters
 
Asian countries have a long tradition of buying gold, because of a traditional distrust for their country's money. It would be unusual for them not to buy gold at any price.

India has a long tradition of buying gold for wedding dowry's. That's why gold demand is always so strong there.

Americans do not typically have a lot of gold anyway. Most Americans would not recognize an American Gold Eagle coin if they saw one. Or a silver round. Very few Americans actually invest in gold bullion.

If they invest, it's usually in the form of mutual funds or ETFs that buy gold, but most Americans never take possession of bullion.

Gold's price is perceived to be rather high right now. There are a lot of gold promoters who are saying it will go higher. Back in 2008, I read one gold promoter saying that gold would be $15,000 an ounce by now. Well, 2013 has come and gold's price has remained mostly flat, trading within a range.

I think Americans selling bullion are probably selling, thinking that it's a good price right now. The economy is improving by most measures. When the economy gets back on its feet and when the currency is thought to have stabilized, gold's price will stagnate.

If American bullion investors believe that the economy/currency is about to stabilize, they might beleive that's a good reason to sell. And if there are buyers, why not sell? When gold goes back down, they can buy more at a cheaper price. Will it go back down? Will it stagnate? Will it go up? That's the beauty of the market, no one truly knows.

See, here's the thing. We have a stock market is doing well, and has been since mid-2009. Total stock market indexes are showing a gain of more than 16% for 2012 alone. So it might make sense to sell gold bullion and put it in the stock market, if a gold investor believed that gold's upwards run was mostly over, and the stock market was getting going.
 
Asian countries have a long tradition of buying gold, because of a traditional distrust for their country's money. It would be unusual for them not to buy gold at any price.

India has a long tradition of buying gold for wedding dowry's. That's why gold demand is always so strong there.

Americans do not typically have a lot of gold anyway. Most Americans would not recognize an American Gold Eagle coin if they saw one. Or a silver round. Very few Americans actually invest in gold bullion.

If they invest, it's usually in the form of mutual funds or ETFs that buy gold, but most Americans never take possession of bullion.

Gold's price is perceived to be rather high right now. There are a lot of gold promoters who are saying it will go higher. Back in 2008, I read one gold promoter saying that gold would be $15,000 an ounce by now. Well, 2013 has come and gold's price has remained mostly flat, trading within a range.

I think Americans selling bullion are probably selling, thinking that it's a good price right now. The economy is improving by most measures. When the economy gets back on its feet and when the currency is thought to have stabilized, gold's price will stagnate.

If American bullion investors believe that the economy/currency is about to stabilize, they might beleive that's a good reason to sell. And if there are buyers, why not sell? When gold goes back down, they can buy more at a cheaper price. Will it go back down? Will it stagnate? Will it go up? That's the beauty of the market, no one truly knows.

See, here's the thing. We have a stock market is doing well, and has been since mid-2009. Total stock market indexes are showing a gain of more than 16% for 2012 alone. So it might make sense to sell gold bullion and put it in the stock market, if a gold investor believed that gold's upwards run was mostly over, and the stock market was getting going.

I agree.

Just to share a story about us that happened over a decade ago... we bought our house and paid for it in full using precious metals. The man that we bought it from was highly anti-government and he would only accept precious metals as currency. We ended up buying almost $87k worth of various precious metals (mostly gold and silver) from auctions and we took it to him in three trips. It took us a few months to pull it all together as it was a real pain in the ass trying to find precious metals at a lower price. We ended up with a lot of coins. He was nuttier than a fruitcake but we have since maintained a small horde of gold and silver in our possession. It can't hurt.
 
Charts for GLD, a gold ETF fund and VTSAX, a total stock market index fund.

Look at how gold is flat, trading within a range. Look at how VTSAX is going up.

Ladies and gentlemen, place your bets! :Ohno:

Gold is a rich man's game now, not safe for the average, small investor.
 

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I agree.

Just to share a story about us that happened over a decade ago... we bought our house and paid for it in full using precious metals. The man that we bought it from was highly anti-government and he would only accept precious metals as currency. We ended up buying almost $87k worth of various precious metals (mostly gold and silver) from auctions and we took it to him in three trips. It took us a few months to pull it all together as it was a real pain in the ass trying to find precious metals at a lower price. We ended up with a lot of coins. He was nuttier than a fruitcake but we have since maintained a small horde of gold and silver in our possession. It can't hurt.

That's wild. That must have been a real pain trying to find enough bullion to buy a house. :lol:

Well, back then, bullion was a lot cheaper, so yeah, probably wouldn't hurt to keep or sell those coins.
 
What I see here indicates that you don't know that the precious metal markets are extremely manipulated. Have you ever heard of Ted Butler? Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee | Exposing the long-term manipulation of the gold market

Investment Rarities Incorporated Theodore Butler Silver Archives

GATA's web site has documentation of PUBLIC RECORDS alluding to gold manipulation and leasing through bullion banks and government dis-hoarding in order to benefit the fiat regime by hiding the inflationary effects of money printing through lower gold prices. Look to your left and look for "Documentation."

Ted Butler has a failing, however. He realized late in research, only last year, that the CFTC agency was in it from the start to aid in the manipulation of gold/silver in various ways, and I tried to tell him that a few years before he realized it. I know human nature too well.

The reason that Americans don't have a lot of gold is because they were diseducated and even banned from owning it. People have NO CLUE what owning gold/silver is about. Indians have a LOT of experience with fraudulent governments. Again, I'm reminding you. *** 20,000 TONS *** in private Indian hands.

Here is a chart to put things in perspective. Note that the precious metals occupy the four largest numbers of days of world production needed to cover the short contracts in the futures market. Notice the nearest non-precious metals contract, cocoa, and the number needed to cover those short contracts; it's but a fraction of silver. Notice also that the red bars mean that the 4 LARGEST traders have that many positions, and the green bars indicate the 8 largest traders including the aforementioned 4 largest traders. This information is found in the CFTC's COT reports (Commitment of Traders).
 

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I read Ted Butler's stuff years ago when he was claiming silver supply was getting pinched and was going to lead to a price of thousands of dollars per ounce of silver. Didn't happen. I see he is still selling his snake oil.

Gold and silver supply will probably dramatically increase once technology figures out how to extract it from ocean water. Then it'll be as cheap as aluminum.

What's important to understand about holding bullion is that in a "normal" market, it represents locked-up wealth. It just sits around, doing nothing. It's not earning interest, it's not invested in any businesses that produce value. It just sits there.

At best, bullion is an insurance policy against a collapsing currency. If you believe the U.S. dollar will collapse and become utterly worthless, then it makes sense to buy bullion.

But seriously, if you really think that's going to happen, you'll be better off buying canned food, rifles, and ammo. Because if the currency collapses, we'll have serious supply issues with basic necessities and American's still won't know what that gold coin is or its real value compared to a roll of toilet paper or a can of peas. (Note: I don't think we're in danger of a currency collapse, nor a society-wide collapse.)

My problem with the Ted Butlers of the world is that their tune never changes. It is *always* the same story. Even now, when the bullion markets have clearly topped off, he is saying the same thing. That's odd.

Well, maybe not so odd, when you realize that his bread and butter is gold, silver, and newsletter sales. One doesn't sell newsletter subscriptions with happy headlines...

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm not aware of or conversant with the argument you are making. I understand it completely, having read and studied it years ago.

The biggest reason that Americans don't have a lot of gold is because we are a prosperous country that invests in things that actually have a return. Gold, traditionally, does not generate returns. Once in a while, it goes into a price bubble. Then it stagnates and eventually drops. A lot of people get burned when they buy into gold too late.

So India has 20,000 tons of gold in private hands (assuming that's an accurate statistic). So what? Like I mentioned earlier, India buys gold for wedding dowries. It's very culturally influenced. Most of these people are poor, but they get gold jewelry made for the dowry. It's their savings account. They don't usually have bank accounts, stock investments, or anything else to grow their wealth. What's left? Gold. Not as a way to grow wealth, but to store wealth.

As India becomes more prosperous and banking becomes wider spread among the people, people will move away from gold, because they will find better investments.

Unless you expect gold to shoot to $15,000 an ounce or something, there's no reason to worry about how much gold other people have.

And if that actually happens, the price of gold will be the least of our worries...
 
I forgot to mention that there's no way that gold was going to $13,000 by now. He was dead wrong, and I knew he would be. Actually, Ted was right about a water fall about to be triggered on Sunday night, May 1st, 2011, when Asia started trading again. I knew about it for about 2-3 weeks ahead of time because he gave us warning. I knew it was going up too fast.

Actually Gata and Butler work in the same circle, and GATA's information is a matter of PUBLIC RECORD that can be found in various government depositories of information. All you have to do is go to the government web sites themselves and see for yourself.

What you miss about gold is PRECISELY the fact that gold doesn't generate income, interest, etc. It's NOT supposed to. If you have 100 ounces of gold,and you want 105 ounces by the end of the year, guess what? Get out there and earn it. The practice of savings accounts magically generating income for you by not having to do ANYTHING on your end other than simply keep the money there is not sustainable, nor does it really work. People try to earn enough money so that they can have it generate interest, enough so they don't have to work. We all can't do that, because someone has to do the physical work. Bankers and politicians don't like this because it drastically limits the number of people who can do this, not have to do much and yet make lots of money in a disproportionate manner.

Of course, you need to have supplies in place, primarily in case you lose your job and your unemployment runs out, which is what a sensible person ought to be putting their money into.

Here's another thing. A person who put money into silver 10-15 years ago has done very well, having made a 12-bagger if he listened to the right people, and I did listen to the right people. Very quickly do you learn who's got a good track record of predicting outcomes based up on a clear understanding of what is really happening in the markets, if not WHO the players actually are.

Look, I had firmly expected that when gold/silver was running up in April, that a "take-down" was going to happen. It usually happens when CME issues margin calls, several in a row, usually all within a few days, that raises margin requirements in order to flush some of these traders out. I knew just from experience (I specialized in gold/silver topics on a full-time basis for over 6 years) that gold/silver would be trading sideways like this for 2-3 years. People had thought silver might clear $40 by end-of-December. It did not feel likely at all to me. It's somewhat likely that it will clear $40 by May 2013. Remember, a 10% chance of an event is more likely than a 5% chance of an event, even if it doesn't happen. What is much more likely is the silver market may clear $50 by May 2014, and not a moment sooner. These tools keep calling the bottom. IT AIN'T IN! Wait for it!

The rate of return is nothing if inflation more than eats it up. You need to research that a little bit more. Look at the price of gasoline in silver prices. Still cheaper than it was last century towards the end. These markets are used to keep people stuck in paper. Imaginary paper instruments.

You have your way of going about things, and I have mine. Let's see which shakes out. Already, I cashed out big time in mid-April that year because I got too nervous and put it to good use. And I can do it again for the next leg up. This is not over yet, because the public in general has not participated like they did during the housing bubble. When that happens is when you get out. You would have bought years ago when it was low and sold out when people were just starting to pile in. This is just a base-building period. Just watch...
 
I hear there's even GOLD poker card set... and I mean actual gold ones. Dunno if it's foiled or solid, my friend's brother got them on his birthday.

My question: is it from China? dunno, no idea.
 
Good chance the bubble is ending and prices will start to decline in the coming months. I would not be buying bullion right now. If the billionaires are seeing this coming, it's a good idea to pay attention.

Billionaires Soros, Bacon Cut Gold Holdings on Decline - Bloomberg

Soros Fund Management LLC reduced its investment in the SPDR Gold Trust, the biggest fund backed by the metal, by 55 percent to 600,000 shares as of Dec. 31 from three months earlier, a U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission filing showed yesterday. Bacon’s Moore Capital Management LP sold its entire stake in the SPDR fund and lowered holdings in the Sprott Physical Gold Trust. Paulson & Co., the largest investor in SPDR, kept its stake at 21.8 million shares.

The fourth-quarter decisions by Soros and Bacon may bolster speculation that gold’s 12-year bull-run is coming to an end as economic data from the U.S. to China show signs of recovery, curbing haven demand. Global ETP holdings have lost 0.9 percent since reaching a record on Dec. 20. UBS AG reduced its one-month price target yesterday by 6.8 percent, saying economic optimism “takes the shine off defensive assets,” including bullion. Gold futures fell to a five-month low today.
 
And that's where they're wrong. They do not understand what is going on around them, or they do, but they trying to trick people out of buying metals in order to prolong the fiat regime. The recent declines WERE expected. Look at this 34-year chart, and you'll see that it's moving like it typically does. I do not even expect a climb above $40 by this May, even though some people are calling for it. It usually won't happen until September or after.

And you'll find China, India, the Middle East, and the rest of the gold-loving world buying the living F* out of gold on any price decline.
 

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gold's boring whats the point of piles and piles of that shit, ever been to Mid-East their gold are ugly, its dull yellow, kinda like puke, nothing like the polished stuff we have here... i got a gold dagger from Saudi Arabia right here, its kind of boring.
 
gold's boring whats the point of piles and piles of that shit, ever been to Mid-East their gold are ugly, its dull yellow, kinda like puke, nothing like the polished stuff we have here... i got a gold dagger from Saudi Arabia right here, its kind of boring.

Agreed. I love silver. It's shining, and it's begging for a petting session. I used to own a silver Tundra truck myself.

About knife- heh, that's kind of cool. I own a gurkha knife from WWI myself. Think it's Nepalese or Indian, not sure.
 
gold's boring whats the point of piles and piles of that shit, ever been to Mid-East their gold are ugly, its dull yellow, kinda like puke, nothing like the polished stuff we have here... i got a gold dagger from Saudi Arabia right here, its kind of boring.

The only real purpose to gold is to act as an hyperinflation hedge or as wealth protection against economic Armageddon. The problem here is that if either of those things happen, you're going to have trouble finding enough food to feed yourself, and you can't eat gold or silver. I also believe that these two things (hyperinflation and economic Armageddon are very unlikely).

For run-of-the-mill inflation, real estate funds like REITs would work for the shorter and longer term, and even stocks funds like VTSAX would work over the long term.

Gold would be hurt by deflation. Bond funds would help protect against deflation. Cash is also a deflation hedge.

People tend to act real funny around gold and silver. Exercise caution.
 
The only real purpose to gold is to act as an hyperinflation hedge or as wealth protection against economic Armageddon. The problem here is that if either of those things happen, you're going to have trouble finding enough food to feed yourself, and you can't eat gold or silver. I also believe that these two things (hyperinflation and economic Armageddon are very unlikely).

For run-of-the-mill inflation, real estate funds like REITs would work for the shorter and longer term, and even stocks funds like VTSAX would work over the long term.

Gold would be hurt by deflation. Bond funds would help protect against deflation. Cash is also a deflation hedge.

People tend to act real funny around gold and silver. Exercise caution.

Neither can you eat dollar bills. In fact, those bills are NASTY with all the crap that's been handed from person to person. Did you know that a large amount of dollar bills have traces of cocaine on them?

And, silver has antimicrobial properties, which make it useful in medical applications. If I was held at gunpoint and made to choose between eating the dollar bill and the silver half dollar, I'd do the latter every time.

To learn about deflationary pressures, read this one.
What Does Deflation Do to Gold Prices? | Gold News

And, you're supposed to have enough food on hand to last you through a rough patch until you get to the other side and people realize who has the money - those with gold and silver will also have firepower to be able to enforce using gold and silver and by setting an example by paying people for work and goods, and being willing to do the same as buyers themselves. If you are serious about gold/silver as money, you would also be serious about heavy firepower and contacts to protect one another until chaos plays out (hopefully). They will be the ones who kick-start the process again. How do you think many countries who had their experiments in paper money got back on a gold standard of some sort? Please read history on paper money and how they did not work out in the end. NO currency regime in the past has survived. None. This one is going bad as well. According to http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm;

$1000 in 1913 has the same buying power as $23,191 - 95% drop in value
$1000 in 1933 has the same buying power as $17,661 - 94% drop in value
$1000 in 1955 has the same buying power as $8,566 - 88% drop in value
$1000 in 1975 has the same buying power as $4,267 - 76% drop in value
$1000 in 2000 has the same buying power as $1,333 - 25% drop in value
$1000 in 2010 has the same buying power as $1,052 - 5% drop in value

Looking at this differently:

$1000 in 1913 similar to $1727 in 1923 - 42% drop in value
$1000 in 1950 similar to $1228 in 1960 - 18% drop in value

$1000 in 1970 similar to $2124 in 1980 - 53% drop in value
$1000 in 1980 similar to $1586 in 1990 - 37% drop in value
$1000 in 2000 similar to $1266 in 2010 - 21% drop in value

Remember, these are numbers based on the CPI, which always changes the things being measured to keep inflation understated. If you were to use the numbers for contemporary standard of living, the numbers would be even higher:

$1000 in 1980 similar to $1750 in 1990 - 43% drop in value

And so on. It should become evident that the dollar does NOT hold value. Whatever the earnings were, you have to remember to DEDUCT inflation from those numbers. It had better be higher than the rate of inflation.

Since 2008, $1000 has the same buying power as *** $985 *** in 2013, and yet Gold had a low of $709.50 during the financial crisis of 2008 (is standing right at 1610 today). Let's see you top 227% in 5 years. How about silver? Dayum, that was where the money was! Silver was at a low of $8.92 at the same time (is standing just under $30 today). How about 334% in 5 years? Remember, silver hit a high of 48.48. Cashing out at that point left me with 543% gains over those same 5 years. Even at today's prices, I'm still doing well.

Now, you can go to several charting web sites like this one - Kitco - Silver Page

Typical statements like yours shows a lack of understanding in human history regarding gold/silver as MONEY and not as an investment, and no understanding of the purpose of fiat currency.
 
Whatever, I'm done with this conversation. Believe what you want.
 
Gold was never intended as investment with ROI (Return On Investment) in mind. Gold is pretty much "Lock your wealth". If deflation happens, gold value will plummet of course but to the point where there is no difference and you still hold the value at that time valuation. If inflation went out of control, Gold value will follow. It was meant to stabilize your wealth that is all. ROI is pretty much like interest earned.

And whats bad about owning gold is that uncle sam actually the true owner of these gold, not the person that holds it. Don't blame me, don't blame on current government, it was FDR that signed executive orders that all Gold belongs to Uncle Sam. So today, you see a dollar bill, in front of it and on the top of it what did it say?

Sad, but true.
 
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