APNewsBreak: Court lifts ban on graduation prayer

rockin'robin

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SAN ANTONIO (AP) — Public prayer will be allowed at a Texas high school graduation after a federal appeals court on Friday reversed a ban won by an agnostic family that claimed ceremony traditions such as invocations are unconstitutional.

The 5th Circuit Court of Appeals granted the emergency appeal filed by the Medina Valley Independent School District. The San Antonio-area school was ordered by a federal judge earlier this week to forbid students from asking audience members to join in prayer or bow their heads at Saturday's graduation.

The lawsuit was filed on behalf of Christa and Danny Schultz, whose son is graduating. The family's suit was being backed by the Washington-based Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

Joe Conn, a spokesman for the organization, declined immediate comment.

The school district's appeal was supported by Texas Gov. Rick Perry, the state's attorney general and conservative groups.

"We're thrilled that the court upheld the rights of students to be able to say prayers and other religious statements in their own capacity," said Hiram Sasser, director of litigation for the conservative Liberty Institute, which filed a motion in support of the school district's appeal.

The Schultzes claimed traditions at graduation, including the invocation and benediction, excluded their beliefs.

U.S. District Judge Fred Biery's original ruling prohibited students from praying at the graduation. Biery instead suggested that students modify their remarks to be "statements of their own beliefs," allow them to make the sign of the cross, wear a yarmulke or hijab, or kneel to face Mecca.

APNewsBreak: Court lifts ban on graduation prayer - Yahoo! News
 
Not cool to force students to pray during graduation ceremony, especially most schools in the southern states do. I'm glad that graduation ceremony that I attended in 2006 doesn't have praying at all.

I don't care if it is private school but I do care about public school because there are many students with different religions.
 
What's not cool is a government entity listens to the few that attacks the masses and they bow over to their pressure rather than the pressure from the masses. Our Government is so weak kneed.

They need to stop listening to the few and also stop acting like pussies....

Yiz
 
What's not cool is a government entity listens to the few that attacks the masses and they bow over to their pressure rather than the pressure from the masses. Our Government is so weak kneed.

They need to stop listening to the few and also stop acting like pussies....

Yiz

This thread has nothing with government. :roll:
 
This bill does not legalize schools demanding that students pray.

It's lifting the ban on people (usually valedictorians or speakers) requesting a moment of silence or putting prayer in their speeches.

No one has to participate. Sounds fine to me.
 
hate to be judge but i was glad that they lift the ban


in old time they do have prayer and now many school don't and guesse where they lead

in different way in old time



call me an old fachine and frankly i don't care what you will call me
 
This bill does not legalize schools demanding that students pray.

It's lifting the ban on people (usually valedictorians or speakers) requesting a moment of silence or putting prayer in their speeches.

No one has to participate. Sounds fine to me.

It's a prayer led by a school official at an official school function. It's an endorsement of religion over non-religion. It's a shame the constitution doesn't hold its weight nearly as much when it comes to separation of church and state.

Hopefully the parents appeal to a higher court. Or better yet, maybe the students will learn to be accepting even of those families who don't believe the same as they do, and don't try to parade it around.
 
hate to be judge but i was glad that they lift the ban


in old time they do have prayer and now many school don't and guesse where they lead

in different way in old time



call me an old fachine and frankly i don't care what you will call me

Force non-religious to praying isn't okay.
 
Force non-religious to praying isn't okay.

It's not forcing, nobody is shoving a gun into their heads to force them to pray. That's a blatant lie.

They can sit all they want or stand and do nothing. Nobody cares about that except for those that want to participate voluntarily. Keyword, VOLUNTARILY.

It's those that have a problem wants to force people to stop praying. They can shove their control freak attitude up where the sun doesn't shine.

Yiz
 
It's not forcing, nobody is shoving a gun into their heads to force them to pray. That's a blatant lie.

They can sit all they want or stand and do nothing. Nobody cares about that except for those that want to participate voluntarily. Keyword, VOLUNTARILY.

It's those that have a problem wants to force people to stop praying. They can shove their control freak attitude up where the sun doesn't shine.

Yiz

That's not true, some of my friends who graduated from public school in southern states and they are required to praying like everyone or they will be kick out.
 
That's not true, some of my friends who graduated from public school in southern states and they are required to praying like everyone or they will be kick out.

Public schools cannot do that, they're backed by State and Federal fundings that also includes their rules. They try that and the school will lose the funds. So they cannot state on public record that they got kicked out for refusing to pray, that'll be evidence of discrimination and opens the school up for a lawsuit.

They can if they want to be a smartass about it by lying about the reason why they got kicked out. So if any student that refuses, there's nothing that they can do about it. Same for standing to Pledge Allegiance to the Flag, they can't be forced either. US Supreme Court even said so several years ago.

Private schools however is an entirely different matter. Private schools do not receive State and Federal fundings, therefore they do not have to follow State and Federal rules and can make whatever rules they want however they see fit. State and Federal cannot interfere, with the exception of breaking Misdemeanor and Felony Laws.

Yiz
 
It's not forcing, nobody is shoving a gun into their heads to force them to pray. That's a blatant lie.

They can sit all they want or stand and do nothing. Nobody cares about that except for those that want to participate voluntarily. Keyword, VOLUNTARILY.

It's those that have a problem wants to force people to stop praying. They can shove their control freak attitude up where the sun doesn't shine.

Yiz

The government isn't allowed to endorse any religions. It's in the constitution. Public schools which allow official prayer (such as convocations and other formally endorsed prayer sections) is a form of government endorsement of religion. Nobody is stopping students from praying while they're at school or during their graduation. They're just not allowed to do it as a formal part of the graduation process, because that constitutes an endorsement. And any form of prayer, regardless of how generic and non-specific it is, is still endorsing religion over non-religion, which is still not allowed.

And that's a good thing.
 
Public schools cannot do that, they're backed by State and Federal fundings that also includes their rules. They try that and the school will lose the funds. So they cannot state on public record that they got kicked out for refusing to pray, that'll be evidence of discrimination and opens the school up for a lawsuit.

They can if they want to be a smartass about it by lying about the reason why they got kicked out. So if any student that refuses, there's nothing that they can do about it. Same for standing to Pledge Allegiance to the Flag, they can't be forced either. US Supreme Court even said so several years ago.

Private schools however is an entirely different matter. Private schools do not receive State and Federal fundings, therefore they do not have to follow State and Federal rules and can make whatever rules they want however they see fit. State and Federal cannot interfere, with the exception of breaking Misdemeanor and Felony Laws.

Yiz

It seems like some schools violate the federal and state law and that's happens, I guess.

We don't have praying at graduation ceremony because it is banned by LAUSD for many years.
 
The government isn't allowed to endorse any religions. It's in the constitution. Public schools which allow official prayer (such as convocations and other formally endorsed prayer sections) is a form of government endorsement of religion. Nobody is stopping students from praying while they're at school or during their graduation. They're just not allowed to do it as a formal part of the graduation process, because that constitutes an endorsement. And any form of prayer, regardless of how generic and non-specific it is, is still endorsing religion over non-religion, which is still not allowed.

And that's a good thing.

Some of US laws sounds too religious to me, especially restrict to recognize of marriage to heterosexual only by federal and many states, except for some states whichever legalize of gay marriage.

Same with abortion too.
 
The government isn't allowed to endorse any religions. It's in the constitution. Public schools which allow official prayer (such as convocations and other formally endorsed prayer sections) is a form of government endorsement of religion. Nobody is stopping students from praying while they're at school or during their graduation. They're just not allowed to do it as a formal part of the graduation process, because that constitutes an endorsement. And any form of prayer, regardless of how generic and non-specific it is, is still endorsing religion over non-religion, which is still not allowed.

And that's a good thing.

I disagree. This has to do with students taking their own initiative to pray. There is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits any public school student from voluntarily praying at any time before, during, or after the school day. This includes at a high school graduation ceremony. If you can find a prohibition in the Constitution please point them out.

Nothing in the First Amendment prohibits all religious activity in our public schools. If you can find such a restriction in the First Amendment please point it out. Otherwise it says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"
The 1st Amendment applies to the government and not you and me.
 
I disagree. This has to do with students taking their own initiative to pray. There is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits any public school student from voluntarily praying at any time before, during, or after the school day. This includes at a high school graduation ceremony. If you can find a prohibition in the Constitution please point them out.

Nothing in the First Amendment prohibits all religious activity in our public schools. If you can find such a restriction in the First Amendment please point it out. Otherwise it says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"
The 1st Amendment applies to the government and not you and me.

huh, school is part of government property and they are obligated to follow 1st Amendment and mandatory praying in school was unconstitutional by US Supreme Court in 1960's but some schools aren't follow up. Sometime, judges made a different opinion on ruling that based on US constitution.

Your disagree with her/him means nothing because her/his post is pretty accurate.
 
Do high schools these days have baccalaureate services? We used to do that in my small town, back in the 1960's and '70's. (Probably longer, but my siblings and I graduated during that time, so that's all I know for sure.) It was an inter-faith service the Sunday afternoon before graduation. No one was required to go, but the entire class was invited by the town's inter-faith council to participate. Most people did go, since in those days, most families were church or synagogue members and wanted this type of thing. The service typically would include some remarks by a Protestant minister, sometimes a Catholic layman (I think priests did not or could not participate), and a rabbi. There were patriotic hymns (like "America the Beautiful.")

They were lovely services. I remember my year's baccalaureate more so than our actual graduation ceremony.

Since no one was forced to go, and since the invitation came from this inter-faith council, it was not an official school-sponsored event.

Graduation was strictly business: speech by the valedictorian, a few words from the President of the school board and the principal, playing of "Pomp and Circumstance" and giving out the diplomas and the awards.

By having the two separate ceremonies, it seemed to meet the needs of everyone: those who wanted to mark important occasions with prayer and spiritual talks, and those who didn't.

Wiki (but of course) has this description:

Baccalaureate service - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This site says such services were common "on school grounds." That was never true in my community; the bac was always at a church auditorium. Totally separated from any official school function.
 
Do high schools these days have baccalaureate services? We used to do that in my small town, back in the 1960's and '70's. (Probably longer, but my siblings and I graduated during that time, so that's all I know for sure.) It was an inter-faith service the Sunday afternoon before graduation. No one was required to go, but the entire class was invited by the town's inter-faith council to participate. Most people did go, since in those days, most families were church or synagogue members and wanted this type of thing. The service typically would include some remarks by a Protestant minister, sometimes a Catholic layman (I think priests did not or could not participate), and a rabbi. There were patriotic hymns (like "America the Beautiful.")

They were lovely services. I remember my year's baccalaureate more so than our actual graduation ceremony.

Since no one was forced to go, and since the invitation came from this inter-faith council, it was not an official school-sponsored event.

Graduation was strictly business: speech by the valedictorian, a few words from the President of the school board and the principal, playing of "Pomp and Circumstance" and giving out the diplomas and the awards.

By having the two separate ceremonies, it seemed to meet the needs of everyone: those who wanted to mark important occasions with prayer and spiritual talks, and those who didn't.

Wiki (but of course) has this description:

Baccalaureate service - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This site says such services were common "on school grounds." That was never true in my community; the bac was always at a church auditorium. Totally separated from any official school function.

Our HS doesn't have baccalaureate so I have no idea about this word until you told about it.
 
Do high schools these days have baccalaureate services? We used to do that in my small town, back in the 1960's and '70's. (Probably longer, but my siblings and I graduated during that time, so that's all I know for sure.) It was an inter-faith service the Sunday afternoon before graduation. No one was required to go, but the entire class was invited by the town's inter-faith council to participate. Most people did go, since in those days, most families were church or synagogue members and wanted this type of thing. The service typically would include some remarks by a Protestant minister, sometimes a Catholic layman (I think priests did not or could not participate), and a rabbi. There were patriotic hymns (like "America the Beautiful.")

They were lovely services. I remember my year's baccalaureate more so than our actual graduation ceremony.

Since no one was forced to go, and since the invitation came from this inter-faith council, it was not an official school-sponsored event.

Graduation was strictly business: speech by the valedictorian, a few words from the President of the school board and the principal, playing of "Pomp and Circumstance" and giving out the diplomas and the awards.

By having the two separate ceremonies, it seemed to meet the needs of everyone: those who wanted to mark important occasions with prayer and spiritual talks, and those who didn't.

Wiki (but of course) has this description:

Baccalaureate service - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This site says such services were common "on school grounds." That was never true in my community; the bac was always at a church auditorium. Totally separated from any official school function.

Sounds good, what about a Valedictorian who wants to say something at the podium during a graduation ceremony?
 
Want to say something religious, you mean? I think that was not done. I don't recall it being an issue.

My brother was named "Outstanding Senior Boy" during his graduation year. He made a speech, and it was based on the song "You'll Never Walk Alone." That song is from "Carousel," which had been the h.s. musical for that year.

His speech talked about how we are guided by our parents, our teachers, and I *think* he may have said "our faith" or something like that, I really don't remember. Anyway, it was spiritual in tone, but not overtly religious, if I remember it right.

Lyrics to "You'll Never Walk Alone:"

When you walk through a storm
Keep your chin up high
And don't be afraid of the dark.
At the end of the storm
Is a golden sky
And the sweet silver song of a lark.

Walk on through the wind,
Walk on through the rain,
Tho' your dreams be tossed and blown.Walk on, walk on
With hope in your heart
And you'll never walk alone,
You'll never walk alone.
---------

I still love that song.
 
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