2005 Dodge Durango engine

COPS are simple and easy to replace. But sometime they are hard to diagnose or replace on some vehicles.

Suppose if you come over Catty's place to diagnose his car. You pulled a code P0304, cylinder#4 misfire detected from your pocket scan tool.
What to do? Check all fluid levels and visual inspection on the engine to see if anything broken or missing, before you investigate the misfire condition. Start the engine and run. Grab a long driverscrew and probe #4 injector as you feel pulses from injector, move a driverscrew to another injector to see if there is same pulse. Next....(Turn engine off)
Remove #4 COP ( make sure you examine it for carbon tracks or cracks) from the cyl #4 and swap #4 COP to cylinder #1 (as you random any COP if you like to swap)
Remove #4 spark plug from cyl #4, swap to cyl #3 ( don't swap to cyl#1)
#3 spark plug swap to cyl #4
Install #1 COP in cyl#4. Write down record of swapping COPS and plugs
Clear code. Take a car for drive around and observe the MIL. MIL pop up again. You are exciting to pull the code(s).....

P0301, cylinder#1 misfire detected that indicates bad #4 COP cuz you swapped. Sound easy diagnose.

P0303, cylinder #3 misfire detected that indicates bad #4 spark plug cuz you swapped #4 plug to cyl#3. Understand clear?

P0304 cylinder #4 misfire detected, same code after swapped COPs and plugs. You would suspect low compression or bad #4 injector?
You can try to swap an injector to another position to see if code changes
The Number One cylinder is on left bank side along with 3,5,and 7. On right
bank side is 2,4,6, and 8.
Beware of the disabled injector cuz some modern OBD-II PCM will disable injector(s) when detects misfire cylinders.
Highlander, what do you think? Even Catty dont have a fancy scopemeter, he can do the method of diagnositic. deafsmogtech

Yes, I can feel injector pulses with my fingers. I will do what you suggest. The only problem is that I don't have OBDII scanner yet. Originally above my posting, I will take my truck to auto part and borrow their OBDII to find out what's engine check light telling me. Then after replacing parts, see how engine runs. If it runs the same after check light been reset, I will do further investigation regarding to COP and Injectors and do tricks on that. If one of injector is bad, I know it's over $100 to replace it. Injectors are unpredictable that it may go bad too soon or go bad after 200k miles. Also will check the voltage spike on each injector to see how strong pulse voltage.

Even Catty dont have a fancy scopemeter, he can do the method of diagnositic. Yeah, that's correct!! I don't have that fancy stuff. I will use the methods you suggested.

Another thought, Fuel filter?? I haven't changed it since I bought my truck. It's now 73,000 miles on it. I am fully aware that fuel filter must be changed between 50k to 100k miles. I'll have it replaced.

I haven't done anything on my truck yet. I was soo busy last week catching things up in my house and other things cuz I was on one week vacation. I had alot things in my mind tho.

Catty
 
I am agreed with you about trick. Thank you for tell me about the screwdriver and the pulse (I noticed that I feels the pulse when I holds the balance fuel injector), I just learned it. I hope Catty can find the problem.


Yeah, That's what my teacher said if we don't have any tool for COP then just swapped the COPS like you said. It takes a lot of time and lot of work for some vehicles. I like to use secondary ignition test probe and perfect for tight engine and quick job.

Check it out.

Coil-On-Plug Secondary Test Probe

Using long screwdriver is old adage methods. 25 years ago, My brother used that to find out if water pump bearing is wearing out or not. He predict so well that he warned me it'll go out in 2 weeks. 2nd week, my old PO jeep water pump went out. Sheesh!! I wish I can learn to hear that sound through long screwdriver. Back then, I was wearing HA and I only hear engine roaring noise. Right now, I have CI and I would be able to narrow down the noise better.

Harbor Freights tools sell mechanic stethoscope with long rod on its end to help detect bad bearing or problems in engine. Problem is that we're deaf and need some amplification in between so we can hear it :ugh:

I do have 20mhz Oscilloscope machine collecting dust in basement but I don't know how to detect difference in "noise" pattern unless I understand where to spot it.


Catty
 
Catty,
I found some information of a misfire condition on a 4.7L. They were caused by the water (rainy and car wash) enter the spark plug wells and O- rings of COP's stems. O- rings use to sealing the spark plug wells to prevent water or foreign materials enter the wells. Wet in the wells causes spark arcing. I hope they fit to your complaint. Hey the boots and springs of the COPs are not
serviced separately.... though. Get codes from scan tool at the part store.
 
Catty,
I found some information of a misfire condition on a 4.7L. They were caused by the water (rainy and car wash) enter the spark plug wells and O- rings of COP's stems. O- rings use to sealing the spark plug wells to prevent water or foreign materials enter the wells. Wet in the wells causes spark arcing. I hope they fit to your complaint. Hey the boots and springs of the COPs are not
serviced separately.... though. Get codes from scan tool at the part store.

How get water inside the COP thru the hood?
 
Wouldn't that water evaporate from the warmed engine anyway?
 
Catty,
I found some information of a misfire condition on a 4.7L. They were caused by the water (rainy and car wash) enter the spark plug wells and O- rings of COP's stems. O- rings use to sealing the spark plug wells to prevent water or foreign materials enter the wells. Wet in the wells causes spark arcing. I hope they fit to your complaint. Hey the boots and springs of the COPs are not
serviced separately.... though. Get codes from scan tool at the part store.

That's what I thought so because of dried white powders on 2 or 3 of my COP and 1 red powder on one of COP. I did suspect it's water something but couldn't figure out how it got in but I suspect it got in back of hood when it's closed. Of course hood is big and wide, back of hood does have gasket under it. I doubt it'll seal off water well. I don't know if airfoil lifts the back end of hood a little to allow water leak into engine especially during heavy rain on highway... I was worried that it might have antifreeze leak but I doubt so because Antifreeze is orange in color.

Since last year, Kansas have above normal rainfall. It was rainy pretty often and I noticed that several COPs like I mentioned above have those powders which are unusual because several years ago, it was just only one and engine was running smooth. I think problems started last year.

I will try replacing seals and clean off the powder ect.

I will take pix of several COPs with power on it to give you an idea.

Catty
 
That's what I thought so because of dried white powders on 2 or 3 of my COP and 1 red powder on one of COP. I did suspect it's water something but couldn't figure out how it got in but I suspect it got in back of hood when it's closed. Of course hood is big and wide, back of hood does have gasket under it. I doubt it'll seal off water well. I don't know if airfoil lifts the back end of hood a little to allow water leak into engine especially during heavy rain on highway... I was worried that it might have antifreeze leak but I doubt so because Antifreeze is orange in color.

Since last year, Kansas have above normal rainfall. It was rainy pretty often and I noticed that several COPs like I mentioned above have those powders which are unusual because several years ago, it was just only one and engine was running smooth. I think problems started last year.

I will try replacing seals and clean off the powder ect.

I will take pix of several COPs with power on it to give you an idea.

Catty


Your antifreeze is orange?! I thought DEX-COOL is for GM only but Dodge use dex-cool? Can't be!

deafsmogtech, is true Dodge use dex-cool?
 
I'm not sure....I work for Enterprise rent a car, I could check that for you tomorrow if I get to wash a dodge vehicle.
 
Your antifreeze is orange?! I thought DEX-COOL is for GM only but Dodge use dex-cool? Can't be!

deafsmogtech, is true Dodge use dex-cool?

Yes, it is true, All Dodge or Chrystler use Dex-Cool. I own Durango, Jeep Liberty and formerly 2001 Dodge Grand Caravan Sport all use Dex-Cool.

Instruction manual says that must use Mopar Dex-Cool or equavalent. If some place do not have Dex-Cool, it can use green antifreeze for temporary but require to purge and fill with Dex-Cool.

Catty
 
I'm not sure....I work for Enterprise rent a car, I could check that for you tomorrow if I get to wash a dodge vehicle.

Why don't you spray the hose directly to back of closed hood (between hood and wiper area) and see if water get into engine. Try it on Dodge Durango. It is like when on highway speed and air "lifts" the hood a bit and back of it would leave a gap to allow water getting into engine. That's my theory.

Catty
 
Why don't you spray the hose directly to back of closed hood (between hood and wiper area) and see if water get into engine. Try it on Dodge Durango. It is like when on highway speed and air "lifts" the hood a bit and back of it would leave a gap to allow water getting into engine. That's my theory.

Catty

We don't have Dodge Durango. We used to have a few but haven't seen them in a while.
 
How get water inside the COP thru the hood?
come from the cowl and flow down the firewall and pour water on the intake manifold and flood the spark plug wells. The water in the well may cause misfire, and dry out when the engine is hot but the water become condense inside the wells or inside the boots. The TSB states it can be fix by updated cowl kit. I think it is rubber trim on the cowl that line with rear of the hood's bottom. Maybe it can be fix by glue trim on the cowl. I ll check the repair infro tmw
 
Your antifreeze is orange?! I thought DEX-COOL is for GM only but Dodge use dex-cool? Can't be!

deafsmogtech, is true Dodge use dex-cool?

I saw orange color in the coolant reservior on the newer Chrylser/Dodge. First Dexcool use in GM was in 1996, I think. (my 95 Astro van use green)
 
Wouldn't that water evaporate from the warmed engine anyway?
water in the wells will evaporate out. One problem is the water enters inside
the spark plug boots and hard to evaporate. I ve been see the many modern vehicles that equipped with COPS, have similar problem like Catty.
 
That's what I thought so because of dried white powders on 2 or 3 of my COP and 1 red powder on one of COP. I did suspect it's water something but couldn't figure out how it got in but I suspect it got in back of hood when it's closed. Of course hood is big and wide, back of hood does have gasket under it. I doubt it'll seal off water well. I don't know if airfoil lifts the back end of hood a little to allow water leak into engine especially during heavy rain on highway... I was worried that it might have antifreeze leak but I doubt so because Antifreeze is orange in color.

Since last year, Kansas have above normal rainfall. It was rainy pretty often and I noticed that several COPs like I mentioned above have those powders which are unusual because several years ago, it was just only one and engine was running smooth. I think problems started last year.

I will try replacing seals and clean off the powder ect.

I will take pix of several COPs with power on it to give you an idea.

Catty
You are likey to solve the misfire problem by suspect the cowl trim that you mentioned. I already post it to Highlander. Im sorry I didnt post you in the first place. I hope you fix it.
 
That's what I thought so because of dried white powders on 2 or 3 of my COP and 1 red powder on one of COP. I did suspect it's water something but couldn't figure out how it got in but I suspect it got in back of hood when it's closed. Of course hood is big and wide, back of hood does have gasket under it. I doubt it'll seal off water well. I don't know if airfoil lifts the back end of hood a little to allow water leak into engine especially during heavy rain on highway... I was worried that it might have antifreeze leak but I doubt so because Antifreeze is orange in color.

Since last year, Kansas have above normal rainfall. It was rainy pretty often and I noticed that several COPs like I mentioned above have those powders which are unusual because several years ago, it was just only one and engine was running smooth. I think problems started last year.

I will try replacing seals and clean off the powder ect.

I will take pix of several COPs with power on it to give you an idea.

Catty
Use silione or delectric grease to coat the lips of the boots (inside) and coat the O rings before you reinstall the COPs
Dont use RTV silione sealer.
 
water in the wells will evaporate out. One problem is the water enters inside
the spark plug boots and hard to evaporate. I ve been see the many modern vehicles that equipped with COPS, have similar problem like Catty.

Very interesting. My wife's ford focus 2005 use COP and no problem with misfires since and it's 105k mileage already. Maybe new COP is better deign than before.
 
Wirelessly posted (SAMSUNG-SGH-I907/UCID1 Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11))

I recently cleaned the 2009 dodge ram 4x4 with 4 doors...it does use orange antifreeze like you mentioned. :)
 
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