Wrong Perspective About Christians

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Mookie said:
Most of Chrisitans have wrong perspectives about Hindu....

Care to explain what's your perspective about Hindu ?
 
CyberRed said:
Teresh --

FYI, Jesus was never drunk in His entire life. He was very Humble man among His people on this earth before crucifixion. Show me where did it say that He was drunk in the bible ?

It doesn't say it anywhere in the text, but given the time period and his being a Jew (and his water-to-wine trick), we can infer that he did consume alcohol at least once in his life. 18 years of his life are essentially skipped in the text--We can assume, though, that he was, in fact, alive and living during those years, no? A lot of stuff could've happened during that time. We'll never know what took place, but we can assume he was essentially a normal Jew for the time.

So did he ever get drunk, even once? We don't know, but a lot can happen in thirty years, so I don't doubt it.
 
Teresh-

Just curious about yourself......

Are you deaf or hard of hearing or hearing?
 
Momoftwo said:
Teresh-

Just curious about yourself......

Are you deaf or hard of hearing or hearing?

I identify as hard of hearing.

I am 60% deaf in both ears, though the percentage isn't the most accurate way of describing it. I can hear low tones easily even without a hearing aid while I can't hear high tones at all.
 
Teresh said:
I identify as hard of hearing.

I am 60% deaf in both ears, though the percentage isn't the most accurate way of describing it. I can hear low tones easily even without a hearing aid while I can't hear high tones at all.

ok
 
Teresh said:
What's to say that I haven't?
Because your posts are so full of anger, bitterness, and harsh language.

Debating doesn't need to include insult. The mocking and cutting down come from something other than presenting a case. There is bitterness at the root.
 
Reba said:
Debating doesn't need to include insult. The mocking and cutting down come from something other than presenting a case. There is bitterness at the root.

Not bitterness--frustration.

Inflection--the way something is said, is lost in text, and it's a lot easier to misunderstand as a result as a lot of the color of the language is lost. I concede that I have, at times, been ambiguous in that matter--saying things that could be intepreted differently from the way I intend them. I'll work on that. I have, at times, been out of line with the way that I've phrased things about individuals, and I'll stop that because it doesn't really reflect how I feel.

That said, I will not relent with critical statements or questions I ask; That is not my way. You defend your beliefs, I'll defend mine.
 
Teresh said:
It doesn't say it anywhere in the text...
Then you can't make that presumption. That's called libel.


but given the time period and his being a Jew...
Not all Jews drank fermented wine. Jews who took the Nazarite vows were forbidden the fruit of the vine.

Numbers 6
1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate themselves to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate themselves unto the LORD: 3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.

Remember Samson...

Judges 13
7 But he said unto me, Behold, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and now drink no wine nor strong drink, neither eat any unclean thing: for the child shall be a Nazarite to God from the womb to the day of his death.

...and John the Baptist

Luke 1
13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. 14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.


So did he ever get drunk, even once? We don't know, but a lot can happen in thirty years, so I don't doubt it.
In other words, you're just making it up. Nothing in the Bible says that Jesus was drunk. The Bible does say that Jesus was without sin. It also says that drunkeness is sin. So, if drunkeness is sin, and Jesus was without sin, then Jesus was NOT drunk.
 
Teresh said:
... I have, at times, been out of line with the way that I've phrased things about individuals, and I'll stop that because it doesn't really reflect how I feel.
I have to monitor that with myself, too. :)


That said, I will not relent with critical statements or questions I ask; That is not my way. You defend your beliefs, I'll defend mine.
That's fair enough. I think that can be accomplished without insulting individuals, or groups of indivduals.
 
Reba said:
Then you can't make that presumption. That's called libel.

I didn't say that he did or did not, I merely suggested the possibility. There is metaphor at work--something does not necessarily have to be literally true to be correct.
 
Teresh said:
Edit: Note that when I say "shallow" I mean it literally--lack of depth. Christianity is an easy religion to follow, but as a consequence of that, it's not very deep.

I wouldn't call Christianity easy to follow if one takes its commandments seriously. In fact, I find that it becomes an extreme challenge. To humble myself before God to the degree required is not easy, and while it may be embarrassing to say so, I am still to this day having a lot of trouble with it. I'm not a trusting person regardless of what it may seem, nor am I someone comfortable with letting others in the driver's seat even when they're eminently more qualified. I hope this hasn't made me come off as a jerk...I'm just being up-front about my flaws. I don't think I'm a jerk--but I am FAR from perfect and at least THIS Christian can say it ain't easy. ;)

About the issue of Jesus "drinking", I can say that alcoholic beverages were VERY common in those days, but typically far weaker than anything that would be served in a bar. The reason for those low levels of alcohol was to kill bacteria in the water, so I would think most people back then would've partaken of that just for the sake of their health. However, getting drunk off of something like that would be challenging, to say the least. You'd probably drown from excess water in the system before you'd get any more than a slight bit tipsy. I might exaggerate a LITTLE, but the point is you'd have to REALLY work at it to get drunk off of the typical ancient beverage.

I'd also like to make a final point that Christianity does not mean that one should not think or question and it irks me when people try to say that it is. In fact, I believe we are encouraged to do so because faith in full understanding of what you're getting into is much more important than blind faith. I'd point to the case of Mary (Magdalene?) seeking instruction from Jesus even though it was forbidden by tradition for women in those days. He rewarded and encouraged her for it even though her sister called her to (on? am I mixing a metaphor?) the carpet for it. Jesus also had a chance to cast St. Thomas out when he questioned on multiple occasions, and while He said that ultimately one has to trust, you'll notice He DID try to give St. Thomas some guidance. I think He understood that St. Thomas questioned out of a genuine need for understanding and comfort, not out of a mocking spirit.

I do think one should think and question as long as mockery is not the intent of it, but rather honest learning.
 
Reba said:
Then you can't make that presumption. That's called libel.



Not all Jews drank fermented wine. Jews who took the Nazarite vows were forbidden the fruit of the vine.

Numbers 6
1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate themselves to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate themselves unto the LORD: 3 He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.

Remember Samson...

Judges 13
7 But he said unto me, Behold, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and now drink no wine nor strong drink, neither eat any unclean thing: for the child shall be a Nazarite to God from the womb to the day of his death.

...and John the Baptist

Luke 1
13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. 14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.



In other words, you're just making it up. Nothing in the Bible says that Jesus was drunk. The Bible does say that Jesus was without sin. It also says that drunkeness is sin. So, if drunkeness is sin, and Jesus was without sin, then Jesus was NOT drunk.
AMEN! I planned put verses here you good beat me up LOL!
 
I was raised up in my jewish home. I totally understood what Judaism means but can misteach the jews against the Messiah Y'shua (jewish way to say Jesus). Rabbis won't show the truly truth to Jews about Isaiah 53 which spoke about Messiah suffered for our sins!

Jesus is true Rabbi and Messiah; he did celebrate Hanukkah, Passover and jewish holidsays. He did go with his parents to their synagogue. He was 12 years old to speak with the highly rabbis. They shocked how Jesus was.. He is truly Son of GOD and Messiah, Prophet! No doubt about Jesus' raising up in Judaism background. He is really Kosher Lamb of GOD!

Christianity is in Judaism is because in past time, David, Moses, Jacob, Joseph, Abraham, and others knew that Messiah will come here on the earth is JESUS according to the fulfillment of prophecy. No doubt! He already here and died on the cross for our sins that paid off our debts! Therefore He is truly Kosher Lamb of GOD already saved us thru His blood shed from death through passover times!

Why Rabbi misteach the jews is because the Rabbis KNEW that JESUS is true Son of GOD and Messiah... They wanted to hide the truth!!! and NOT WANT JEWS TO BELIEVE IN JESUS! WHAT A SHAMEFUL ON RABBIS!

THROWSTONES FOR JESUS
Missionary to the Deaf Jews :angel:
 
Rose Immortal said:
I wouldn't call Christianity easy to follow if one takes its commandments seriously. In fact, I find that it becomes an extreme challenge. To humble myself before God to the degree required is not easy, and while it may be embarrassing to say so, I am still to this day having a lot of trouble with it. I'm not a trusting person regardless of what it may seem, nor am I someone comfortable with letting others in the driver's seat even when they're eminently more qualified. I hope this hasn't made me come off as a jerk...I'm just being up-front about my flaws. I don't think I'm a jerk--but I am FAR from perfect and at least THIS Christian can say it ain't easy. ;)

Here, here. I hold the firm belief that even Billy Sunday could not go a day without a transgression of some sort, however small. He was much more experienced than I. I still blur the lines sometimes between a tough debate and real life. I have a problem of taking a joke seriously and blowing it out of proportion. I try to stay in the Bble daily, but find it difficult to do with my hectic life. I do my best, and That still isn't great.

About the issue of Jesus "drinking", I can say that alcoholic beverages were VERY common in those days, but typically far weaker than anything that would be served in a bar. The reason for those low levels of alcohol was to kill bacteria in the water, so I would think most people back then would've partaken of that just for the sake of their health. However, getting drunk off of something like that would be challenging, to say the least. You'd probably drown from excess water in the system before you'd get any more than a slight bit tipsy. I might exaggerate a LITTLE, but the point is you'd have to REALLY work at it to get drunk off of the typical ancient beverage.

That and the wine they did use was kosher in the way that the ingredients were there, it just hadn't been allowed to ferment.

I'd also like to make a final point that Christianity does not mean that one should not think or question and it irks me when people try to say that it is. In fact, I believe we are encouraged to do so because faith in full understanding of what you're getting into is much more important than blind faith. I'd point to the case of Mary (Magdalene?) seeking instruction from Jesus even though it was forbidden by tradition for women in those days. He rewarded and encouraged her for it even though her sister called her to (on? am I mixing a metaphor?) the carpet for it. Jesus also had a chance to cast St. Thomas out when he questioned on multiple occasions, and while He said that ultimately one has to trust, you'll notice He DID try to give St. Thomas some guidance. I think He understood that St. Thomas questioned out of a genuine need for understanding and comfort, not out of a mocking spirit.

Thomas is the disciple I identify with the most. That, and Peter.

I do think one should think and question as long as mockery is not the intent of it, but rather honest learning.
"Study to show thyself approved, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."
 
Throwstones said:
I was raised up in my jewish home. I totally understood what Judaism means but can misteach the jews against the Messiah Y'shua (jewish way to say Jesus). Rabbis won't show the truly truth to Jews about Isaiah 53 which spoke about Messiah suffered for our sins!

Jesus is true Rabbi and Messiah; he did celebrate Hanukkah, Passover and jewish holidsays. He did go with his parents to their synagogue. He was 12 years old to speak with the highly rabbis. They shocked how Jesus was.. He is truly Son of GOD and Messiah, Prophet! No doubt about Jesus' raising up in Judaism background. He is really Kosher Lamb of GOD!

Christianity is in Judaism is because in past time, David, Moses, Jacob, Joseph, Abraham, and others knew that Messiah will come here on the earth is JESUS according to the fulfillment of prophecy. No doubt! He already here and died on the cross for our sins that paid off our debts! Therefore He is truly Kosher Lamb of GOD already saved us thru His blood shed from death through passover times!

Why Rabbi misteach the jews is because the Rabbis KNEW that JESUS is true Son of GOD and Messiah... They wanted to hide the truth!!! and NOT WANT JEWS TO BELIEVE IN JESUS! WHAT A SHAMEFUL ON RABBIS!

THROWSTONES FOR JESUS
Missionary to the Deaf Jews :angel:
I question you, why jewish denied and removed Isaiah 53 in Bible? They are very blind Abraham came promised the land through Jesus Christ. Amen! Jesus is Jew too.
 
JKV Bible Isaiah 53: 1-12 Isaiah (ASL sign, show you sign here, I right and I left on eye cry) :tears:

1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, [there is] no beauty that we should desire him.

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were [our] faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him [a portion] with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Yahweh is Salvation! Isaiah's prohetic ministry, spanning the reigns of four kings of Judah.
 
Jesus was never drunk! KJV Bible said here it made sense.

Matthew 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Deuteronomy 29:6 Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I [am] the LORD your God.

1Timothy 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.
 
Throwstones said:
I totally understood what Judaism means but can misteach the jews against the Messiah Y'shua (jewish way to say Jesus). Rabbis won't show the truly truth to Jews about Isaiah 53 which spoke about Messiah suffered for our sins!

The Rabbis don't hide information because that would be contrary both to their tradition and their objective. (How many minority opinions are stated in the Talmud?) Moreover, all Jews are expected, dare I say encouraged, to develop their own opinions on the Torah and the rest of the Tanakh.

Throwstones said:
Jesus is true Rabbi and Messiah; he did celebrate Hanukkah, Passover and jewish holidsays.

Just a comment--Chanukah in Jesus's time was radically different from Chanuka today. Today, it is considered a commemoration of the miracle of the menorah of the Temple continuing to burn for eight days following the revolt of the Maccabees, but in Jesus's time it was a commemoration of the military victory of the Maccabees. The change is a result of the influence of the Rabbis.

Throwstones said:
He did go with his parents to their synagogue.

There were no synagogues in Jesus's time--The synagogue was a Rabbinical invention as a solution to the fact that the Temple was destroyed and that because of that, Biblical Judaism could no longer be practiced. The synagogue was not developed until after 70 CE, more than 40 years after Jesus supposedly died.

Throwstones said:
He was 12 years old to speak with the highly rabbis.

The Pharisees, not the Rabbis. The Pharisees didn't develop into the Rabbis until after the Temple was destroyed as it wasn't until then that the School of Shammai died out and the School of Hillel became the dominant force.

Throwstones said:
Christianity is in Judaism is because in past time, David, Moses, Jacob, Joseph, Abraham, and others knew that Messiah will come here on the earth is JESUS according to the fulfillment of prophecy.

Only if you're being taught what Judaism by a Christian priest like most Christians are. A rabbi would have a different perspective--the legitimate Jewish perspective.

Most Christians, especially the group that wants to convert Jews, think that Judaism logically leads to Christianity, something which is simply not true. Judaism leads to Judaism, not Christianity. The Jews are not the people who rejected Jesus, they were the people who continued with their way of life. I will say that Christianity subverted Jewish history and completely reinterpreted the scriptures in order to justify its faith and, more importantly, to prevent people from becoming Jews.

That said, that is a Pauline concept and had nothing to do with Jesus... It was not until long after his death that the idea of Christianity being opposed to Judaism took root.

Throwstones said:
No doubt! He already here and died on the cross for our sins that paid off our debts! Therefore He is truly Kosher Lamb of GOD already saved us thru His blood shed from death through passover times!

Blood is never kosher.

Throwstones said:
Why Rabbi misteach the jews is because the Rabbis KNEW that JESUS is true Son of GOD and Messiah... They wanted to hide the truth!!! and NOT WANT JEWS TO BELIEVE IN JESUS! WHAT A SHAMEFUL ON RABBIS!

That's a Christian conspiracy theory they've gotten into your head to justify you rejecting your heritage and your religion. It's a fallacy--The Rabbis are not any more evil than the Priesthood in Christianity.

sculleywr said:
That and the wine they did use was kosher in the way that the ingredients were there, it just hadn't been allowed to ferment.

That actually is not true. At Jesus's time, only the Levites and the Kohanim (priests) kept kosher. All other Jews were not expected or required to keep kosher because kashrut was considered to only apply to priests. After the Temple was destroyed in 70 CE, the Pharisees, who were already fairly popular, ascended to absolute power and became the Rabbis.

The mandate that all Jews keep kosher is a Rabbinical idea, coupled with the Rabbinical idea that all Jews should live as if they were priests--It did not exist in Biblical Judaism. Consequently, being a Levite or a Kohen in this day and age is little more than a symbolic honor.

There's one other thing of note--None of the ingredients normally used in grape wines are not kosher. Because of that, almost all grape wines are naturally kosher. That said, the Rabbis instituted the idea that due to the liturgical importance of wine in Judaism, a wine is treifah (non-kosher) if it is poured or drank for the purpose of idolatry. Based on that logic, and the way wine is sold nowadays, most wines today would be considered kosher if the winemakers sought out a kosher certification agency, but since most winemakers don't, the only certified kosher wines in the US are made by Manischewitz and Kedem.

EagleCherokee63 said:
I question you, why jewish denied and removed Isaiah 53 in Bible?

Isaiah 53 is still in the Tanakh--What gave you the idea that it isn't?

EagleCherokee63 said:
They are very blind Abraham came promised the land through Jesus Christ.

Jesus didn't live up to prophecy or fulfill the Messianic goals. He wasn't considered the Messiah because he didn't do very many of the things that the Messiah was supposed to do.

EagleCherokee63 said:
Jesus was never drunk! KJV Bible said here it made sense.

Matthew 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Deuteronomy 29:6 Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I [am] the LORD your God.

1Timothy 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

Quote-mining. The Deuteronomy passage is taken out of context, as is the Matthew passage. I'm not sure about the passage from 1 Timothy, though.
 
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