Is God Perfect? - Page 9

Angel · 02-25-2008, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

First of all God is the Creator of all things, God does not have to explain any of His actions to any of us. Look at Job for example, he had so many bad things happened to him, what did he do? He remain faithful to God no matter what, even he did not know that it was Satan doing all along, still he did not questioned God. We suffer in this life along with wicked, along with Satan's tempts. All the Natural disasters, accidents, sickness, poor, young and old, good or bad, even death will come to everyone, These things are a part of the lives of all who live on this earth, because of that this world is a sinful world, instead of blaming God for being cruel, Look at your own life, and look at the world all around you. God did not made this world when He created it. Yes, God allows Satan to roam on earth, we have the power to choose between right and wrong.

We need to have as much patience as Job did. We must learn to endure the hardships of life, instead of blaming it on God. God did none of the wicked that happened on this earth. It's the people, It's Satan, and It's what life was given to us the moment Adam and Eve did their first sin. This is what we get, this is what we have. We have to fight our own life, by doing what's right, and yes life is gonna get tough before it gets better, and God will reward us for all that we have given by keeping our faith in Him.

Good postie Cheri!!

Liebling:-))) · 02-25-2008, 03:57 PM

I find both links are interesting to read what they interpret.

The Fall of Adam mortality god eve

Old Testament - Genesis

Cheri · 02-25-2008, 04:03 PM

it's a "Mormon" Religious, I'm not interesting in reading other people's Religious.

EagleCherokee63 · 02-25-2008, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

I hate when people like Christians are push me to believe in God but I rejected at all time, I just want to be left it and I don't need any truth.

There's NUMEROUS of different religions in the world, what kind of would you believe in? None of them at all time for me, I just prefer to be freedom from religion, even I don't believe in heavan or hell, just nothing at all time.

You can see that no religion, atheist and agnostic are rise in percent in USA from 1990 to 2001 on data, that how changing would taken, same goes to Canada at 30%. In my opinion, religion is much worthless, pointless and sounds like fairy tale, also there's many debate on religion in around world and Christian isn't pure or #! religion, all of them are neither.

There's message about God hate homosexual or against homosexual but I don't care because I don't believe in God or truth, too much thing to say like that.

I understand what you say meaning you don't like push etc..... They were missing Galatians 5:19-26

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

(it not right push people involved religions because they missed fruit spiritual!)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Reba · 02-25-2008, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

[font="Century Gothic"][color="Blue"]Yes, that's right - we have in reality but compare with Eve & Adam's situtation is total different because we live on earth for many years to know what right and wrong and follow the consequences...

How many years did Adam and Eve live before they disobeyed God? How often did God talk to them and teach them? How do you know how much they knew? Answer: you don't. And yet you dare judge God when you don't even know all the facts.

Quote:

How do we know that Adam and Eve understood the consequences when they did not live in garden home for long before happens?

God told them the consequence. He told them they would die.

Quote:

Yes, the fact is they were created as full adults but they have no knowledge of good and evil before they ate fruit from forbidden tree.

They knew that they must obey God but they chose not to.

Quote:

They didn't live in garden home long until this happenend like we live many years to have knowledge what right and wrong.

How do you know how long they lived before they ate the forbidden fruit?

Quote:

Nope, few people I mean is Christians...

because none answer my logic question...

Here is again...

IF God is powerful, loving and forgiving as what religion believers claim then not necassary to send his son to suffer to death for our sins. Why can´t God simple forgive the sins itself without send his son to the earth to suffer to death for us? The answer from some people (christians) doesn't convince my logic argument which mean is my question are being denied.

No, your question is not being "denied." You just don't like the answers that you get.

Quote:

I thought the definiten I gave in my previous post helps. Oh it doesn't answer your question enough...

Okay, Reality: -
If I need help to cure my illness is DOCTOR...
If I need help to take care of my teeth then is DENTIST
If I need help to take care of my health then is HEALTH INFORMATION
If I need help to cure cancer to save my life then is SURGERON
If I need help to take care of my problem then is COUNSELLOR, THERAPY, etc.
If the poor children from poverty starve for foods and drink then GET IT FROM US.
If I need the help to positive my strength then DO POSTIVE MYSELF.
If my children need our helps then they will have it FROM US.
and go on....

All above is we get positive advice/information/help from ANY specialists..., not God.

Get it?

So to which "specialist" do you go for your eternal life? Which specialist will keep you out of Hell and welcome you into Heaven?

Liebling:-))) · 02-26-2008, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

it's a "Mormon" Religious, I'm not interesting in reading other people's Religious.

This links, I provide for everyone - no matter either you or anyone are interesting or not because those link belongs other religion believer but I find those link interesting to see what and how they interpret differently way.

Liebling:-))) · 02-26-2008, 05:42 AM

[quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

How many years did Adam and Eve live before they disobeyed God?

The first child of many children were born out of garden Eden. Genesis 4:25

The list of Genesis tell that Adam and Eve could not have been in the Garden of Eden longer!

Quote:

How often did God talk to them and teach them?

I only know from my bible that God talk and teach Adam after first creation which mean is God is there for him time to time... name to any animals, anything... until God noticed that each animals have mates which Adam doesn't have mate to company him. "He is lonely" - his lonely tells that God did not being with him often? He created Eve to company Adam and can have many children with him. Adam taught Eve anything what we have in Garden home.

Quote:

How do you know how much they knew?

Simple answer: They only know what they have is in garden home and animals.

Quote:

Answer: you don't.

Quote:

And yet you dare judge God when you don't even know all the facts.

I would say the same thing about you either. You judge Eve and Adam for their sin to deny that forbidden tree was being placed is the blame. You are the one who deny the logic fact that God is the responsible who place the forbidden tree in first place to test their faith.

Quote:

God told them the consequence. He told them they would die.

What God told them is dishonestly because they didn't die straight way after eat forbidden fruit.

It's right and true consequence if God tell them to leave garden home and will face many troubles and will work hard for their foods and live in thorns and thistles around them if they eat that forbidden fruit. Eve and Adam will know the consequence because they don't want to lose beautiful Eden garden. They were like shock because they didn't know that they have to leave garden home for disobey God.

Quote:

They knew that they must obey God but they chose not to.

Because God never told them about Satan's existence. How could they know then? How could they know good or bad then? Eve beleive in "Satan" because she thought a "Satan" who work for God, told her that she will have knowledge of good and bad like God, not die. God don't mind... After eat the forbidden fruit then they know what good and bad is about.

Quote:

How do you know how long they lived before they ate the forbidden fruit?

Repeatly answer: The first child of many children were born out of Eden Garden which mean that they did not live Eden garden longer. Do you think they have to wait to make a baby as soon as Eve just was being created? Nope!

Quote:

No, your question is not being "denied." You just don't like the answers that you get.

Nope, most of different religion beleivers said that my question is very good. Those question, I repeated for YEARS... I tested my repeat question few times to several Christians soon after I first registered AD in 2004.

The answer you gave me is pretty illogical because Jesus did not ask for punish to death. If Jesus want die for us then he would go to see Roman authorities to tell them to crucifie him for us but he doesn't. The fact is he was arrested because one of his 12 apostles betrayed him and then was sentenced to death with crucifixion for blasphemy by Roman authorities.

Quote:

So to which "specialist" do you go for your eternal life? Which specialist will keep you out of Hell and welcome you into Heaven?

pastor

Liebling:-))) · 02-26-2008, 05:55 AM

Something "imperfect" hit my head when I was typed the post to response Reba...

Question:

Why God created each male and female animals to company each other to forget Adam who need a female to company. It shows imperfect that God forget to create a female for Adam until he first noticed that each animals have mates which Adam doesn't. He was lonely... Ohhhh yes, he said to himself and then created Eve later... It shows that he FORGET to create a woman for him on the same time as he already created each male and female animals.

IMPERFECT!!!!!

Liebling:-))) · 02-26-2008, 07:05 AM

[quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

First of all God is the Creator of all things,

Yes I know and do not deny it.

Quote:

God does not have to explain any of His actions to any of us.

I respectfully disagree. It's not right consequence because the people has the right to know what and why.

Quote:

Look at Job for example, he had so many bad things happened to him, what did he do? He remain faithful to God no matter what, even he did not know that it was Satan doing all along, still he did not questioned God. We suffer in this life along with wicked, along with Satan's tempts.

Yes we do have many bad things in our life but it's no excuse to blame God or Satan for that but positive negatives one ourselves. Job's situation shows the example that we should not blame God for that. The fact what we learn about Job from the bible over the between God and Satan.

Quote:

All the Natural disasters, accidents, sickness, poor, young and old, good or bad, even death will come to everyone, These things are a part of the lives of all who live on this earth,

Exactly

Quote:

because of that this world is a sinful world, instead of blaming God for being cruel,

It has nothing do with blame God but the fact is that we learn from our bible history what and how God did.

Quote:

Look at your own life, and look at the world all around you.

Yes, I already stated in my previous posts several time that I am not angry and bitter to blame God for that but positive myself for my life and my family.

Quote:

God did not made this world when He created it. Yes, God allows Satan to roam on earth, we have the power to choose between right and wrong.

This is your opinion which I see different as you what I know from my bible that the God thought everything is prefect when he created the earth until he placed the tree of knowledge to test Adam's and Eve's faith.......... This is a history what and how we come from. I accept it with no anger against God or Eve & Adam.

Quote:

We need to have as much patience as Job did. We must learn to endure the hardships of life, instead of blaming it on God. God did none of the wicked that happened on this earth. It's the people,

Exactly

Quote:

It's Satan, and It's what life was given to us the moment Adam and Eve did their first sin. This is what we get, this is what we have.

It's no excuse to blame Satan or Eve & Adam for that. I am not angry or pissed over God for placed the forbidden tree in first place but the fact is he is the responsible for place the tree in first place when he KNEW the earth will happens before he placed the tree.

Quote:

We have to fight our own life, by doing what's right, and yes life is gonna get tough before it gets better,

Exactly

Quote:

and God will reward us for all that we have given by keeping our faith in Him.

I only beleive in what and how I did in my own strength to positive my life. I would thank the people for teach me how to positive my life. God would not want that we faith him for his help but want to see us to cope our own strength. IMO.

Liebling:-))) · 02-26-2008, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

Adam and Eve did understood and knew what will happen if they ate from the tree...As God already knew what they did but asked Adam anyways, Adam points to Eve, and blames her then God turns to Eve, who blames the serpent-the devil, God turns to the serpent, then curses the earth, the serpent is punished the most but God did includes Adam and Eve in the punishment, because they were the ones who sinned.

Interesting, my bible didn't say this. I can see that our bible say different. I only know from the bible that Eve & Adam turn into different couple after eat the forbidden fruit and know what right and wrong is about. They hide from God and shame their naked bodies. God send angels to tell them to leave garden home for disobey God.

It sound childish to me when Adam pointed to Eve and blame her for that and then Eve pointed and blame the serpent.

Yes, Adam & Eve were sinned after ate forbidden fruit but God should not place the forbidden tree to test their faith in first place. It's no difference either blame them or God but point the fact who placed the tree in first place. It's God, not Satan. Like what Askjo said in his previous post that God has the reason to place the forbidden tree and created the couple because of Satan.

What and how God did with earth is part of his plan.

Angel · 02-26-2008, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Interesting, my bible didn't say this. I can see that our bible say different.

That's because you're reading from JW.

Liebling:-))) · 02-26-2008, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

That's because you're reading from JW.

Yes, that's right. I got it as a gift from my JW couple whom are my friends. I also learn Catholic belief as well because I was raised to learn about Catholic belief because my family are Roman Catholic. My Grandma was a strong Roman Catholic. I didn't know anything about this until you told me here for a first time. Like what I said before that we have different bibles.

I don't mind to get any bible book as gift from my friends whom have different beleifs because they are my friends and accept to learn where they come from.

Cheri · 02-26-2008, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

That's because you're reading from JW.

Liebling, Instead of saying "this is not from my bible" You're reading JW's, that's not your Religious, why follow that bible if it's not your Religious, it does not make no sense. no offended.

Liebling:-))) · 02-26-2008, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

Liebling, Instead of saying "this is not from my bible" You're reading JW's, that's not your Religious, why follow that bible if it's not your Religious, it does not make no sense. no offended.

wow, *speechless*

What I want to read ANY bibles is my business. I consider ANY bible stories as a history. Reading the bible doesn't mean that I have to become religion but consider the bible as a history in neutral way because I am interesting.

The bible I got is a GIFT to RESPECT my JW friends. Why have I repeat this to you. I would get ANY bible story from different religion beleivers to RESPECT them because they are my FRIENDS. Should I throw their bible to trash bin? *shake my head*

Where is your respect? It show no friend if you show no respect on their different beliefs.

Cheri · 02-26-2008, 08:00 AM

Don't misunderstood me Liebling, I was pointing something out to you, the fact that you read JW's bible, and not any other bible as of yet, You took JW's bible as your own bible, this is how you said it "It didn't say that in my bible". I'm not trying to disrespect you from what you decide to read, but to point something out, that JW's people believe in their bible, and you also believe in their bible since you said that it didn't show in the bible you were reading, so that means you believe in JW's Religious.

Reba · 02-26-2008, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

The first child of many children were born out of garden Eden. Genesis 4:25

The list of Genesis tell that Adam and Eve could not have been in the Garden of Eden longer!

Genesis 4:25
And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

How does that verse show the length of time that Adam and Eve lived in Eden????

Quote:

I only know from my bible that God talk and teach Adam after first creation which mean is God is there for him time to time... name to any animals, anything... until God noticed that each animals have mates which Adam doesn't have mate to company him. "He is lonely" - his lonely tells that God did not being with him often?

Do I need to explain to you about the birds and bees? Adam's fellowship with God was not the same as a relationship with a woman.

Quote:

Simple answer: They only know what they have is in garden home and animals.

How do you know that? Were you there? Did you hear every conversation that God had with Adam?

Quote:

I would say the same thing about you either. You judge Eve and Adam for their sin to deny that forbidden tree was being placed is the blame. You are the one who deny the logic fact that God is the responsible who place the forbidden tree in first place to test their faith.

I didn't judge them; God judged them. I didn't deny that God put the tree in the garden.

James 1
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

[quote]What God told them is dishonestly because they didn't die straight way after eat forbidden fruit.
Yes, they did. On that day, their bodies became mortal, and the dying process began. Also, their spirits died to God until they repented and He forgave them.

Quote:

They were like shock because they didn't know that they have to leave garden home for disobey God.

Where did you read that in the Bible?

Quote:

Because God never told them about Satan's existence. How could they know then? How could they know good or bad then? Eve beleive in "Satan" because she thought a "Satan" who work for God, told her that she will have knowledge of good and bad like God, not die. God don't mind... After eat the forbidden fruit then they know what good and bad is about.

How do you know which things God told them or didn't tell them? It doesn't matter if Eve knew "who" Satan was; she knew that he wasn't telling her the same thing that God told her, and that she was supposed to obey God, not anyone else.

Quote:

Repeatly answer: The first child of many children were born out of Eden Garden which mean that they did not live Eden garden longer. Do you think they have to wait to make a baby as soon as Eve just was being created? Nope!

Adam and Eve fell into the sin of disobedience BEFORE their children were conceived or born, so that has nothing to do with what happened in Eden. We don't know how many years passed from the day they were created until they ate the forbidden fruit.

Just because Adam "knew" his wife Eve while they lived in Eden doesn't mean she became pregnant while they lived there. I'm sure you know enough about the facts of life to understand that pregnancy doesn't happen every time a couple has intercourse.

Quote:

Nope, most of different religion beleivers said that my question is very good. Those question, I repeated for YEARS... I tested my repeat question few times to several Christians soon after I first registered AD in 2004.

"Different religion believers"? If they aren't Christians, how do they know the true answer? Maybe they are experts about their own religions but they don't know a relationship with Christ.

Quote:

The answer you gave me is pretty illogical because Jesus did not ask for punish to death. If Jesus want die for us then he would go to see Roman authorities to tell them to crucifie him for us but he doesn't. The fact is he was arrested because one of his 12 apostles betrayed him and then was sentenced to death with crucifixion for blasphemy by Roman authorities.

Jesus came to earth with the full understanding that He would die on the Cross. He volunteered for that.

Why would He need to go to the Roman authorities to request crucifixion? If He had done that, they would have ignored Him. Just because someone pops up and requests crucifixion, it didn't happen. That wasn't the lawful process that the Romans followed. The whole process happened the way it was supposed to.

You can't change history. You can either accept it or deny it but you can't change what happened, even if it doesn't fit your style of "logic".

Quote:

pastor

How can your pastor get you into Heaven?

Cheri · 02-26-2008, 08:31 AM

Lol Good answers Reba.

Reba · 02-26-2008, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

It's reality, I am referring to.

The reality is that the Bible doesn't say anything about "pets".

Quote:

Added? It didn't write exact HOW God add everything where Job lost? Do God add the children and animal to Job... How? Did God created them for Job? or Job and his wife created more children together? Did God send all of his children from heaven back to earth?

God did not send the first 10 children back to earth. Didn't you read my explanation? I said that Job would see them again in Paradise, not on Earth. Job and his wife had a total of 20 children.

I don't know if God sent the animals to Job or made it possible for Job to buy them, or if he started with a few animals who were prolific in bearing many more animals. What does it matter? God made it possible, and that's the point. I really don't know how you can miss that.

Apparently, you know that you can't deny that it happened so you are trying to attack the "how" of it happening. You must be getting desperate.

Reba · 02-26-2008, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebli

02-25-2008, 03:57 PM	#242 (permalink)
Liebling:-))) me in Springfield, IL '07 Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 24,001	I find both links are interesting to read what they interpret. The Fall of Adam mortality god eve Old Testament - Genesis __________________ sniffing you

02-25-2008, 04:03 PM	#243 (permalink)
Cheri Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: All I wanted was a white knight with a good heart, soft touch, fast horse, ride me off into the sunset Posts: 20,160	it's a "Mormon" Religious, I'm not interesting in reading other people's Religious. __________________

02-26-2008, 05:55 AM	#248 (permalink)
Liebling:-))) me in Springfield, IL '07 Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 24,001	Something "imperfect" hit my head when I was typed the post to response Reba... Question: Why God created each male and female animals to company each other to forget Adam who need a female to company. It shows imperfect that God forget to create a female for Adam until he first noticed that each animals have mates which Adam doesn't. He was lonely... Ohhhh yes, he said to himself and then created Eve later... It shows that he FORGET to create a woman for him on the same time as he already created each male and female animals. IMPERFECT!!!!! __________________ sniffing you

02-26-2008, 08:00 AM	#255 (permalink)
Cheri Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: All I wanted was a white knight with a good heart, soft touch, fast horse, ride me off into the sunset Posts: 20,160	Don't misunderstood me Liebling, I was pointing something out to you, the fact that you read JW's bible, and not any other bible as of yet, You took JW's bible as your own bible, this is how you said it "It didn't say that in my bible". I'm not trying to disrespect you from what you decide to read, but to point something out, that JW's people believe in their bible, and you also believe in their bible since you said that it didn't show in the bible you were reading, so that means you believe in JW's Religious. __________________

02-26-2008, 08:31 AM	#257 (permalink)
Cheri Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: All I wanted was a white knight with a good heart, soft touch, fast horse, ride me off into the sunset Posts: 20,160	Lol Good answers Reba. __________________

Today
Deafness	Sponsored Links __________________ This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members. Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com