Is God Perfect? - Page 8

Liebling:-))) · 02-25-2008, 07:14 AM

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Originally Posted by Reba

How is that illogical? Every action has consequences.

Every choice that we make in life has consequences, some good, some bad.

That is totally logical.

Adam and Eve were adults. They made choices. They had to accept the consequences of their choices.

What is illogical about that?

Yes, that's right - we have in reality but compare with Eve & Adam's situtation is total different because we live on earth for many years to know what right and wrong and follow the consequences...

How do we know that Adam and Eve understood the consequences when they did not live in garden home for long before happens?

Genesis 3 tell a lot: Before they ate the forbidden fruit, they had no knowledge of good and evil.

It shows that they could not understand the consequences nor understand what right or wrong?

After they ate the piece of the fruit, then they knew good and evil is about but too late...

I would say that God choose to accept the consequences for give Eve and Adam choice for placed the tree in first place because he created everything with full knowledge of what will happen. It could be not that he deny his resonsible for that?

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Right. Adam and Eve made their own choice to disobey God.

Are you sure that they understand what "death" is about? God should warn them to leave garden home if they touch forbidden tree. It would help them understand because they love their beautiful garden home.

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Adam and Eve were created as full adults. God gave them all the knowledge that they needed. God warned them about the penalty for disobedience. It was their decision to ignore what God told them.

Yes, the fact is they were created as full adults but they have no knowledge of good and evil before they ate fruit from forbidden tree. They didn't live in garden home long until this happenend like we live many years to have knowledge what right and wrong.

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Maybe it's because your logic is wrong.

Nope, few people I mean is Christians...

because none answer my logic question...

Here is again...

IF God is powerful, loving and forgiving as what religion believers claim then not necassary to send his son to suffer to death for our sins. Why can´t God simple forgive the sins itself without send his son to the earth to suffer to death for us? The answer from some people (christians) doesn't convince my logic argument which mean is my question are being denied.

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To which "specialist" do you go to get eternal life?

I thought the definiten I gave in my previous post helps. Oh it doesn't answer your question enough...

Okay, Reality: -
If I need help to cure my illness is DOCTOR...
If I need help to take care of my teeth then is DENTIST
If I need help to take care of my health then is HEALTH INFORMATION
If I need help to cure cancer to save my life then is SURGERON
If I need help to take care of my problem then is COUNSELLOR, THERAPY, etc.
If the poor children from poverty starve for foods and drink then GET IT FROM US.
If I need the help to positive my strength then DO POSTIVE MYSELF.
If my children need our helps then they will have it FROM US.
and go on....

All above is we get positive advice/information/help from ANY specialists..., not God.

Get it?

Liebling:-))) · 02-25-2008, 07:17 AM

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Originally Posted by lumbingmi

Do we have different bible ?

Therefore yes, we have different bible.

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I hope above verses will make you understand that in fact, Job did complain and curse to God.

Interesting to read the list, you provided here what my bible doesn't write much.

Yes, Job complained over his pain but he did not curse God. His wife urged him to curse God but Job won't do it.

Liebling:-))) · 02-25-2008, 07:25 AM

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Originally Posted by Reba

Maybe that's the way you see it but that's not what the Bible said.

Yes, I know they are fully adult but they have no knowledge of good and bad like toddler/children because they doesn't live on earth long to understand what good or bad yet until they ate fruit from forbidden tree...

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This is what I asked you:

"Are you still going to control your sons' actions when they are adults?"

It's a simple question. It's not a "claim". It's not about a previous post. It's just a question.

Oh I got it. I thought it's relate this thread, you ask me question about. My answer is No.

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No, it's not an opinion. It's a fact. Adam and Eve were not children. They were fully developed adults.

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Does this sound like a description of children?

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Genesis 2
22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Yes I aware that they are fully adult with no knowledge of good and bad until they ate fruit from forbidden tree. That's why I call them "toddler" or "children" because toddlers and children have no knowledge what good and bad until they learn everyday for years... then they know what bad or good...

Liebling:-))) · 02-25-2008, 07:31 AM

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Originally Posted by Reba

God created Adam and Eve but they weren't children. They were adults.

Adam and Eve had knowledge because God specifically told them not to eat that fruit. They had full knowledge of that, and the penalty that would result.

You can "call it" whatever you want but they were still fully developed and knowing adults.

At least you are now calling them God's creation and the "first couple"; that's a start in the right direction.

I often said in previous post - creation children or first couple.

Yes I know they are fully adult but with no knowledge of good and bad yet until they ate piece of fruit from forbidden tree.

All what they got warned from God is they will die if they eat a forbidden fruit from that tree, that's all.

I guess it would be different if God tell them fully like that he would throw them out of the garden home if they disobeyed him and warn Satan's existence in first place but he doesn't.

Cheri · 02-25-2008, 07:36 AM

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Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

"All God did was sat back and did not interfere"

All what I look the fact logic is: God started to tell Satan in pride way: "Look at Job. See how faithful he is to me." Satan argued back "He is faithful because you bless him & has many things but if you take these away, he will curse you."

God choose to say: "Go ahead, Take them away. Do all the bad things you want to Job. We will see if he curses me. Only be sure that you do not kill him." sound contest for Job's faith to me and want to know who faith him or Satan.

It would not happen if God didn't point Job to Satan in first place. That's how got Satan idea... so God let Satan do what he wants to make Job suffer badly... I mean REAL BADLY...

Good heart?

That's the problem, you're using your logic thinking, instead of opening your heart to understand God.

How many people have turned their back on God, of their disobedience and refusal to accept Him and His ways for them? Too many, only a few stayed Faithful to God in the Old Testament.

Liebling:-))) · 02-25-2008, 07:37 AM

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Originally Posted by Reba

The animals that Job lost weren't "pets".

It's reality, I am referring to.

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The children that Job lost weren't "replaced". They were added.

Notice:

Job 1
1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. 2 And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters. 3 His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.

Job 42
12 So the LORD blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses. 13 He had also seven sons and three daughters.

At the end, God gave Job twice as many animals than before but He gave Job only the same number of children. Why? Because Job's first 10 children were waiting for him in Paradise. Eventually Job would be reunited with his original 10 children, and the second set of 10 children; that equals 20 children total. So in the end, Job was blessed with twice as many children than he had at the beginning.

Added? It didn't write exact HOW God add everything where Job lost? Do God add the children and animal to Job... How? Did God created them for Job? or Job and his wife created more children together? Did God send all of his children from heaven back to earth?

Liebling:-))) · 02-25-2008, 07:42 AM

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Originally Posted by Angel

Hmm...who told you that Eve and Adam had no knowledge of good and evil?

Yes, God did gave them the knowledge of right and wrong in order to be able to make the "right" decision. Adam and Eve were given instructions from God, they knew was to not eat from the tree, and told them the consequences of doing so. Unfortunately they chose to disobey God on their own.

We all have this "terrible" feeling when we do something that isnt right so they knew what they were doing was wrong.

No, Eve and Adam had no knowledge of good and bad yet until they ate a fruit from forbidden tree. Genesis 3:22 In Genesis 3

How do we know how could Adam and Eve understood the consequences until after they ate a piece of forbidden fruit?

Liebling:-))) · 02-25-2008, 07:51 AM

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Originally Posted by VamPyroX

I thought God was so perfect that he could predict the future? He should have seen that Adam and Eve would have done it. In that case, he was encouraging it to happen.

If you knew that this particular guy was going to do drugs, but you put the drugs on the counter knowing that he will take it... then you're the one doing the encouraging.

Compared with Eve & Adam -When I tell my toddler not to touch a hot stove because he'll get burnt. He have no clue what it is about. He choose to not obey me & touch the hot stove. He got burnt. Is it make what and how he did wrong? All what I know is he suffered the consequences of disobeying me.

I would never do that...

God choose to accept the consequences of give freewill when he knew it will happens.

Liebling:-))) · 02-25-2008, 07:55 AM

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Originally Posted by TechBill
And as I read on this thread I would like to add my 2 cent to it.

I don't recall bible made any mention the timeframe that Adam and Eve was create to the time they both took a bite from the forbidden apple.

So it could be the day tomorrow after they were created or maybe a year later or maybe 10,000 year later or maybe a million year later that they took a bite of that apple.
I would think if Adam was as human as we are today then it would been a very long time afterall it would taken quite a while to name every animals on earth since bible said that Adam did name every animal on earth. How long you think it would take you to name every animals on this earth? 1 day? 1 year? 10 year? 10,000 year? a million year?

So if is the case then they have a very full life experience before they took a bite of that apple.

Can I ask a question? Which religion you beleive in? I only want to let you know that Christians beleive in earth is few thousand years old. Your post got me confused because you mentioned 10,000 year later or million year later.

Liebling:-))) · 02-25-2008, 08:13 AM

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Originally Posted by Cheri

That's the problem, you're using your logic thinking, instead of opening your heart to understand God.

How many people have turned their back on God, of their disobedience and refusal to accept Him and His ways for them? Too many, only a few stayed Faithful to God in the Old Testament.

Sorry, I have no heart for anyone including God who let or make the people suffer or kill them for their rejection. Worst is children and newborns.

Sorry, I am soft heart to poor people including children and newborns who suffers and have to die.

To me, if anyone choose to faith differently or beleive differently then let them... instead of make them to faith or beleive in God.

Cheri · 02-25-2008, 08:30 AM

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Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Sorry, I have no heart for anyone including God who let or make the people suffer or kill them for their rejection. Worst is children and newborns.

To me, if anyone choose to faith differently or beleive differently then let them... instead of make them to faith or beleive in God.

First of all God is the Creator of all things, God does not have to explain any of His actions to any of us. Look at Job for example, he had so many bad things happened to him, what did he do? He remain faithful to God no matter what, even he did not know that it was Satan doing all along, still he did not questioned God. We suffer in this life along with wicked, along with Satan's tempts. All the Natural disasters, accidents, sickness, poor, young and old, good or bad, even death will come to everyone, These things are a part of the lives of all who live on this earth, because of that this world is a sinful world, instead of blaming God for being cruel, Look at your own life, and look at the world all around you. God did not made this world when He created it. Yes, God allows Satan to roam on earth, we have the power to choose between right and wrong.

We need to have as much patience as Job did. We must learn to endure the hardships of life, instead of blaming it on God. God did none of the wicked that happened on this earth. It's the people, It's Satan, and It's what life was given to us the moment Adam and Eve did their first sin. This is what we get, this is what we have. We have to fight our own life, by doing what's right, and yes life is gonna get tough before it gets better, and God will reward us for all that we have given by keeping our faith in Him.

Pacman · 02-25-2008, 08:33 AM

Short answer is NO!

Pacman · 02-25-2008, 08:39 AM

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Originally Posted by PuyoPiyo

Even though Christians said that God is perfect, I do not think he was. I see him as other people just like us. Everyone does make mistake.

lol, same here but let them to think like that, not me.

I think that God is just like story book, like example of fairy tale.

Cheri · 02-25-2008, 08:47 AM

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Originally Posted by Pacman

lol, same here but let them to think like that, not me.

I think that God is just like story book, like example of fairy tale.

That's your opinion, I cannot help you see the truth when you don't want to see the truth.

Pacman · 02-25-2008, 08:49 AM

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Originally Posted by Cheri

That's your opinion, I cannot help you see the truth when you don't want to see the truth.

No, I don't need believe this crap, I'm with atheist that don't believe in God.

Again, I don't need your truth, no thanks.

I think that God is just myth, no offense.

Secretblend · 02-25-2008, 08:53 AM

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Originally Posted by Pacman

No, I don't need believe this crap, I'm with atheist that don't believe in God.

Again, I don't need your truth, no thanks.

I think that God is just myth, no offense.

None taken, We've done our part. The rest is up to you. If you choose to not listen, there is nothing else we can but to leave it up to God. I just hope you will find the truth before it is too late.

Cheri · 02-25-2008, 09:00 AM

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Originally Posted by Pacman

No, I don't need believe this crap, I'm with atheist that don't believe in God.

Again, I don't need your truth, no thanks.

I think that God is just myth, no offense.

Ok, my question is why are you here? This thread is asking "Is God Prefect?" If you don't believe in God, then why answered "no" to that question, when you think God is just a myth?

Pacman · 02-25-2008, 09:01 AM

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Originally Posted by Secretblend

None taken, We've done our part. The rest is up to you. If you choose to not listen, there is nothing else we can but to leave it up to God. I just hope you will find the truth before it is too late.

I hate when people like Christians are push me to believe in God but I rejected at all time, I just want to be left it and I don't need any truth.

There's NUMEROUS of different religions in the world, what kind of would you believe in? None of them at all time for me, I just prefer to be freedom from religion, even I don't believe in heavan or hell, just nothing at all time.

You can see that no religion, atheist and agnostic are rise in percent in USA from 1990 to 2001 on data, that how changing would taken, same goes to Canada at 30%. In my opinion, religion is much worthless, pointless and sounds like fairy tale, also there's many debate on religion in around world and Christian isn't pure or #! religion, all of them are neither.

There's message about God hate homosexual or against homosexual but I don't care because I don't believe in God or truth, too much thing to say like that.

Pacman · 02-25-2008, 09:04 AM

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Originally Posted by Cheri

Ok, my question is why are you here? This thread is asking "Is God Prefect?" If you don't believe in God, then why answered "no" to that question, when you think God is just a myth?

I was replied to Puyo's post but you went replied my post at earlier.

Cheri · 02-25-2008, 09:04 AM

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Originally Posted by Pacman

I was replied to Puyo's post but you went replied my post at earlier.

Read post 222, You did not quoted anyone. I rest my case.

Secretblend · 02-25-2008, 09:08 AM

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Ori

02-25-2008, 08:33 AM	#222 (permalink)
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