Cheri

When I said "complain" When all Job's possession were taken from him, Job did not blamed it on God, also when Job was sick, it was so painful and uncomfortable, yet he did not curse God. Even when he was complaining, He still did not curse God.

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Reba

How is that illogical? Every action has consequences.

Every choice that we make in life has consequences, some good, some bad.

That is totally logical.

Adam and Eve were adults. They made choices. They had to accept the consequences of their choices.

What is illogical about that?


Right. Adam and Eve made their own choice to disobey God.


Adam and Eve were created as full adults. God gave them all the knowledge that they needed. God warned them about the penalty for disobedience. It was their decision to ignore what God told them.


Maybe it's because your logic is wrong.


To which "specialist" do you go to get eternal life?

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lumbingmi

Do we have different bible ?


I hope above verses will make you understand that in fact, Job did complain and curse to God.

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Reba

Job did not curse God.

Job 2
9 Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die. 10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

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lumbingmi

We all know that bible is open to interpretation. So in your view, he did not but in my view, yes he did.

Re-read my post regarding verses clearly shown that Job complained and cussed at God.

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TechBill

From reading my bible it told me that Job wife did try to encourage Job to curse at God but he never did.

Those verses are Job whining why why why why did this all happen why why

But if you read to the near end of Job you will see that Job did asked forgiveness for all of his whining.


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lumbingmi

This is calling "complaining" If you interpret it to be "whining" , it s same thing with complaining.

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Reba

Maybe that's the way you see it but that's not what the Bible said.


This is what I asked you:

"Are you still going to control your sons' actions when they are adults?"

It's a simple question. It's not a "claim". It's not about a previous post. It's just a question.


No, it's not an opinion. It's a fact. Adam and Eve were not children. They were fully developed adults.

Does this sound like a description of children?

Genesis 2
22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

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Reba

This is very plain:

"In all this did not Job sin with his lips."

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lumbingmi

Of course complaining isn't a sin

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Cheri

"In all this Job did not sin with his lips." (Job 2:10 RSV)

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Cheri

Lol I missed ur post, I was looking for the verse.

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Cheri

Yes, vain in the name of God is a sin.

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Reba

God created Adam and Eve but they weren't children. They were adults.

Adam and Eve had knowledge because God specifically told them not to eat that fruit. They had full knowledge of that, and the penalty that would result.

You can "call it" whatever you want but they were still fully developed and knowing adults.

At least you are now calling them God's creation and the "first couple"; that's a start in the right direction.

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lumbingmi

And complaining is not sin, correct? Job did complain

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Reba

After Job lost everything:

Job 1
20 Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped, 21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD. 22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.

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Cheri

You're confused, complaining in the name of God is a sin, Job did not curse or complained in the name of God.

Please do not twisted my words, ask me if you do not understand.

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TechBill

You can complain or whine all you want as long you don't blame God for it.

Job whine why this is happening or whine what did he do wrong to make God angry at him to allow this happen but he never said cursed at God ie It all your fault God! You did this to me God! I am not gonna be faithful to you anymore God!

but remember Satan told God that Job only was faithful to God because he was rich and blessed with many good thing and Job never knew at first that it was Satan doing all the suffering to Job and God only wanted to show to Satan that Job will remain faithful to God without all the richess Job have gather during his life.


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Reba

The animals that Job lost weren't "pets".

The children that Job lost weren't "replaced". They were added.

Notice:

Job 1
1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. 2 And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters. 3 His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.

Job 42
12 So the LORD blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses. 13 He had also seven sons and three daughters.


At the end, God gave Job twice as many animals than before but He gave Job only the same number of children. Why? Because Job's first 10 children were waiting for him in Paradise. Eventually Job would be reunited with his original 10 children, and the second set of 10 children; that equals 20 children total. So in the end, Job was blessed with twice as many children than he had at the beginning.

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Cheri

You said it better than I did, Thank you.

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Angel

Hmm...who told you that Eve and Adam had no knowledge of good and evil?

Yes, God did gave them the knowledge of right and wrong in order to be able to make the "right" decision. Adam and Eve were given instructions from God, they knew was to not eat from the tree, and told them the consequences of doing so. Unfortunately they chose to disobey God on their own.

We all have this "terrible" feeling when we do something that isnt right so they knew what they were doing was wrong.

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TechBill

And as I read on this thread I would like to add my 2 cent to it.

I don't recall bible made any mention the timeframe that Adam and Eve was create to the time they both took a bite from the forbidden apple.

So it could be the day tomorrow after they were created or maybe a year later or maybe 10,000 year later or maybe a million year later that they took a bite of that apple.

I would think if Adam was as human as we are today then it would been a very long time afterall it would taken quite a while to name every animals on earth since bible said that Adam did name every animal on earth. How long you think it would take you to name every animals on this earth? 1 day? 1 year? 10 year? 10,000 year? a million year?

So if is the case then they have a very full life experience before they took a bite of that apple.


.

Angel

Good point there!

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VamPyroX

I thought God was so perfect that he could predict the future? He should have seen that Adam and Eve would have done it. In that case, he was encouraging it to happen.

If you knew that this particular guy was going to do drugs, but you put the drugs on the counter knowing that he will take it... then you're the one doing the encouraging.

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VamPyroX

So, you're saying that Adam and Eve were over 10,000 years old?

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TechBill

Can you point out to me where I said that Adam and Eve were over 10,000 year old?

And remember death didn't exist until they took that bite.


.

Cheri

Right, if they didn't took that bite, they would have live forever.

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Angel

God knows what we will choose beforehand, but that doesn’t mean that He predetermined them. He just predicted it. We are morally responsible for those choices, God loves us so much that He won’t take away our free will.

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Liebling:-)))

Honestly? God didn't said to them that he would throw them out of the garden or stop taking care of them if they disobeyed him in first place but just warned them that they will die if they eat a forbidden fruit.

Surely, Eve & Adam would not eat a forbidden fruit if they know about Satan's existence and will lost their garden home.

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Liebling:-)))

"All God did was sat back and did not interfere"

All what I look the fact logic is: God started to tell Satan in pride way: "Look at Job. See how faithful he is to me." Satan argued back "He is faithful because you bless him & has many things but if you take these away, he will curse you."

God choose to say: "Go ahead, Take them away. Do all the bad things you want to Job. We will see if he curses me. Only be sure that you do not kill him." sound contest for Job's faith to me and want to know who faith him or Satan.

It would not happen if God didn't point Job to Satan in first place. That's how got Satan idea... so God let Satan do what he wants to make Job suffer badly... I mean REAL BADLY...

Good heart?

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