Is God Perfect? - Page 6

Secretblend · 02-23-2008, 08:05 PM

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Originally Posted by lumbingmi

Ohhh.. crap. We dont want to make God angry, do we? After all , he have the power to strip our precious existence. *shudder in fear* Yikes.

Ok. God created Angel then Angel became Satan. Gotcha.

being scarcastic??

TechBill · 02-23-2008, 08:11 PM

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Originally Posted by lumbingmi

Ohhh.. crap. We dont want to make God angry, do we? After all , he have the power to strip our precious existence. *shudder in fear* Yikes.

Ok. God created Angel then Angel became Satan. Gotcha.

We already made him angry but his love for us is holding him back.

lumbingmi · 02-23-2008, 08:14 PM

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Originally Posted by Secretblend

being scarcastic??

Huh? It s fact right? You said God created Angel (Lucifer) but somehow this angel sudden had epiphany and decided to turn against God. Thus the quest of Satan had begun - recruiting people on this earth to be his soldiers but lucky for us, Jesus came to Earth and die on the cross so that we can finally have access to the heaven. Before it was hopeless but now it is not hopeless anymore as long we accept Jesus Christ as our savior. Whew.

Secretblend · 02-23-2008, 08:19 PM

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Originally Posted by lumbingmi

Huh? It s fact right? You said God created Angel (Lucifer) but somehow this angel sudden had epiphany and decided to turn against God. Thus the quest of Satan had begun - recruiting people on this earth to be his soldiers but lucky for us, Jesus came to Earth and die on the cross so that we can finally have access to the heaven. Before it was hopeless but now it is not hopeless anymore as long we accept Jesus Christ as our savior. Whew.

Except for the bold area, yes I see it as a fact. Satan goal is to destroy God's creation. That is why He tempted Eve and then Adam.

Sorry, was just making sure of what you meant when you said that. Hard to tell of tone on here.

lumbingmi · 02-23-2008, 08:23 PM

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Originally Posted by TechBill

We already made him angry but his love for us is holding him back.

I guess all father should emulate him.

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Originally Posted by Secretblend

Except for the bold area, yes I see it as a fact. Satan goal is to destroy God's creation. That is why He tempted Eve and then Adam.

Sorry, was just making sure of what you meant when you said that. Hard to tell of tone on here.

We are soliders of Satan at the moment when we are born. Lucky for us, Jesus provided us a way out of this.

Reba · 02-23-2008, 09:04 PM

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Originally Posted by lumbingmi

And the LORD said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, see that you do all those wonders before Pharaoh which I have put in your hand. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go.
God said he will make sure Pharaoh's heart to be harden. therefore, God intended Pharaoh to resist Moses so that God can display his awesome powers.

No. God knew that the demands that Moses made to Pharaoh would result in Pharaoh resisting (hardening his heart) against Moses, the Jews, and God. God didn't give Moses those demands in order to harden Pharaoh's heart. God wanted Pharaoh to let the Jews leave. But God knew the heart of Pharaoh, and knew that Pharaoh would become more resistant.

God was warning Moses that His (God's) actions would result in Pharaoh hardening his heart. But Pharaoh's decisions were all his own.

Exodus 8:15
But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.

Exodus 8:32
And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go.

Exodus 9:34
And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants.

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I know there are several countries who finally break off the oppression. India comes to my mind, for many years Britains brought missionaries and colonized India. Few years ago, India finally put end to it and rejected missionaries.

Missionaries who bring the Gospel to people are not oppressors. Don't confuse colonizers with real missionaries.

BTW, there are still Christian missionaries and Christian Indians doing the Lord's work in India.

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OK here s quotes:

Religion in China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It s pretty high percentage considering China has over 4 billions people.

OK; my statement was correct; the underground church lives on in China.

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Okay. I shouldn't say God is enjoying every bit of it and I apologize for it.

Accepted.

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The point is that why should we being thankful for God giving us another day to live? It sounds like God is doing it at random and cause people's death just because God said so. It doesn't make any sense but we can't do anything since it is God's will, right?

It doesn't make sense to us because we see things with the limited vision and wisdom of mortals. What seems random to us is actually part of a larger plan, of a scope that we can't comprehend. And yet, God still takes a personal interest and concern in each of us as individuals.

Luke 12
4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him. 6 Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God? 7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.

***VamPyroX*** · 02-24-2008, 03:20 AM

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Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

If God really love Eve and Adam then forgive them for their mistake for being tricked instead of kick them out of Eden Garden.

It´s God´s responsible for give Eve and Adam freewill to touch the forbidden fruit tree or not. Yes it´s his mistake to place the forbidden fruit tree and let Satan to tempt Eve and Adam.

Interfere? Are you saying that we should not interfere if our children tempted their curious to hurt themselves or disobey us?

Where's God's forgiveness?

Liebling:-))) · 02-24-2008, 06:53 AM

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Originally Posted by Reba

You are right; there is no excuse for blaming God for anything. God makes no mistakes, so we can't blame Him when things go wrong.

History is History. We people need to know where it come from... The history could not deny the fact that the Tree of Knowledge was being placed in first place. I am not angry and blame God for that but accept the fact that it´s his way to discipline Eve and Adam like this. Eve was being tricked by Satan, that´s how it was begin. I guess it would never happen if Tree of Knowledge was not placed in first place. I accept the fact what kind of life we have and positive our life without blame anyone including God.

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They made their choices, and so they must accept the consequences that go with those choices. They knew what would happen before they made their choices.

You said other posts that Eve and Adam are adult to make their own choice and now you said that they must accept the consequences with those choices. It sound illogical to me.

Reality: My children are still my responsible and accept the consequences as long as they live under my house until they are adult and move out and make their own free choice.

God gave Eve and Adam freewill to make their choice which mean is their own choice.

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Adam and Eve weren't children.

To me, yes they were "children" because they were very first couple on the earth and too naive and little knowledge. They need being feed by God what right or wrong like what we feed our children what right or wrong.

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Why do you ask this again and again? Many people have answered you multiple times. Do you expect the answer to change?

For the umpteenth time, Jesus volunteered to take our penalty upon Himself because He loves us and doesn't want us to suffer for eternity.

Many?, nope but a few people. Those answer doesn´t support my logic.

Again, IF God is powerful, loving and forgiving as what religion believers claim then not necassary to send his son to suffer to death for our sins. Why can´t God simple forgive the sins itself without send his son to the earth to suffer to death for us? That´s those answer from some people doesn´t convince my logic arguement.

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Which "specialists" take care of your eternal soul?

I thought you know which specialist what I referred to?

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specialist

Definition:
1. somebody in particular interest: somebody who specializes in an occupation, interest, or field of study

2. type of physician: a medical doctor who practices in a specific field

specialist definition - Dictionary - MSN Encarta

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To which people specifically are you referring? To whom are they praying? Why are there poor people in third-world countries? What is the cause of their poverty? What's happening in five years?

I created a thread about them under Current Event several weeks ago.

Liebling:-))) · 02-24-2008, 07:24 AM

[quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Askjo

If God did not kick Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden, they would live on the earth forever. When God said that if they eat a forbidden fruit, they will surely die. God kept His words honestly.

[color="Blue"]This is an illogical. Accord my Bible, *copied part of what my bible wrote* God punished them because they did something God told them not to do. God kept that tree as his own. And we know it is wrong to take something that belongs to someone else, don´t we? Well what happened? The serprent was able to fool Eve.... that´s why they lost their beautiful garden home for being punishment to disobey God. It´s very sad fact is Eve was being TRICKED to beleive Satan´s word.[COLOR]

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God did not make any mistakes.

This is your opinion.

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God instructed Adam concerning the tree and Adam rebelled against God after he ate it. God gave him the freewill for everything, but one rule on one tree. Adam is responsibile for his rebellion against God by becoming a sinner.

Rebellion? This is a pretty illogical! They are very naive couple to have no knowledge what good or bad. That doesn´t mean that Eve and Adam were rebelled against God that´s because Eve made an innoncent mistake to beleive in Satan´s lie with no knowledge what right or wrong.

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Adam and Eve were NOT babies! They were fully mature.

I never said Adam and Eve were babies but toddler and children. No, I disagree that they were fully mature since they have no knowledge what good or bad. They never being taught what good or bad by God. To me, they were "children" because they were very first couple and alone on the earth with no knowledge until God fed them positive things like name animals, etc.

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You blame on God repeatedly.

No, I look at fact logic.

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The reason that God tested is the tree of knowledge of good and evil because of the Satan.

See your own word. I say no further.

but my bible did not say that Satan was reason why God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil to test.

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If the Satan did NOT tempt Eve, then God CANNOT judge against him.

Well accord my Bible - If only Adam & Eve had obeyed God, life would have been happy for them & their children. They could all have lived forever in happiness on earth. No one would have had to grow old, get sick and die.

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If so, Jesus CANNOT save us.

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The Temple must be holy because God is holy. Well, God is angry. You are angry. Do you have a good reason by getting angry? If so, likewise God does.

Exactly!!! You got it!!! Yes, we have good reason for angry which it´s not supposed to be. We should use our logic to patience with anyone but we doesn´t. It shows itself is IMPERFECT.

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You twisted the Scriptures repeatedly. Shame on you. If God is mistaken, then He would destroy His holiness. No plan of Salvation!

*shake my head quietly*

I do not see anything that I twisted the Scriptures but the fact is I use LOGIC view on bible interpretation.

Liebling:-))) · 02-24-2008, 07:28 AM

[quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Adam and Eve weren't toddlers.

To me, yes they wree "toddler" because they have no knowledge what right and wrong because every toddlers have no knowledge what it is about.

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Are you still going to control your sons' actions when they are adults?

I do not see anything where I say about adults but toddlers and children. I do not find any posts, I posted the word about adults. If you claimed I did then show me please.

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God's character did not change. The transition from OT to NT dispensations were the continuing process of God's eternal plan.

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Adam and Eve weren't children.

This is your opinion.

Liebling:-))) · 02-24-2008, 07:31 AM

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Originally Posted by Reba

But you aren't God, and Adam and Eve weren't toddlers.

Yes, I am wrong and should not inference God´s plan for his creation children.

Yes, Adam and Eve were God´s creation children. He put Eve and Adam on the earth... they were first couple on the earth with no knowledge... I would call it as "toddler" because they have no knowledge what good or bad.

Liebling:-))) · 02-24-2008, 07:34 AM

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Originally Posted by Reba

Are you going to interfere in your children's lives forever?

Forever? This is an illogical question because we never talk about "Forever" in our posts.

Liebling:-))) · 02-24-2008, 07:40 AM

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Originally Posted by Angel

God did not kick Eve and Adam out of the house or kill them. He punished them just like we punished our children and the court system punishing those who disobey the laws.

Accord my Bible, yes God kicked Eve and Adam out of their beautiful garden home as punishment for their disobedience. Outside the garden of Eden, they saw lots of thorns and thistel grow around them. This is what happened when they disobeyed God.

Fact is God killed the people who disobeyed/don´t beleive in him. Poor chlidren and newborns have to die because their parents choose to beleive in differently. freewill?

Fact is I would not kick my children out of my house or kill them for their disobedience.

Liebling:-))) · 02-24-2008, 07:42 AM

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Originally Posted by Angel

That has absolutely nothing to do with Adam and Eve as they weren't toddlers Lieblingie.

See my response posts toward Reba and Askjo.

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We shouldn't compare adults to toddlers.

About Eve and Adam´s condition, yes I would compare them with "toddlers" because they were naive and have no knowledge what right or wrong.

At reality, I do not compare adults to toddlers.

Liebling:-))) · 02-24-2008, 07:43 AM

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Originally Posted by GarnetTigerMom

Good, posting, you have said it better and I would have. :-)

for see the logic...

Liebling:-))) · 02-24-2008, 07:50 AM

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Originally Posted by GarnetTigerMom

Since you bring up that question, Believe me, Parents "do" interfere with children's lives as well as adult grown up children. Parents never stop worrying about their kids until the day they die.

Yes, interfere and worry are part of normal life.

Yes, the parents often interfere with children´s lives to make sure their safety... but with teenagers - limit... and adult - no interfere their live... they would

if I interfere their adult lives. Yes I agree with you that we never stop worry about our children until we die. It´s normal.

My MIL interfered our lives and worry about us. She can´t accept the fact that we are adult and lead differently as them... Oh well

Liebling:-))) · 02-24-2008, 08:18 AM

[quote][quote]

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Originally Posted by Askjo

Care to tell me why I agree with Reba, Angel and others, but you?

Simple is: you all are Christians and have same beliefs. I beleive differently as you all.

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The inerrancy only refers to the autographs of the OT and the NT where God inspired because God is inerrant.

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Any Bible translations are not, but God preserved His inspired Words in them.

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It applies to the past, today and future.

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You confuse concerning "error-free" between the autographs and translations.

Illogical but I respect your view.

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I did not say that, but the Scriptures said that.

Romans 1:20-22 (KJV)

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became [u]fools[/U],

Oh, you fingerpoint your bible because your religion author use those word "foolish". It´s no excuse to fingerpoint your bible but yourself because you are the one who typed your own word "foolish".

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You blame on God by stating that God is imperfect because you did not thank Him and glory Him.

Blame on God? Huh? I only show the fact and logic, not blame on God. I accept it as history like what I accept ANY histories what and how it begin... You can´t deny the history.

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This Scripture shows that you are a fool.

This interpretation of your religion author wrote but my bible did not wrote it.

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God already forgave Adam and Eve, but God did not allow they stay in the Garden of Eden because of the Satan.

Huh? God did not allow them to stay in the Garden of Eden because of that Satan. Do I understand you correct?

My bible do not says it.

Forgive? Accord my bible, Outside the garden of Eden, Adam & Eve had many troubles. They had to work hard for their food. Instead of beautiful fruit trees, they saw lots of thorns and thistels grow around them. This is what happened when Adam & Eve disobeyed God and stopped being His friends. Forgive?

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When you use the logic, it becomes negative and nonsense upon your thoughts and comments.

Sorry, you has to face sometimes when there´re negative and positive in the bible. You can´t expect positive all the time...

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You use one word, "child" for your logic concerning drinking deadly liquid . The fact is that Adam and Eve were NOT children or toddlers, but they are FULLY mature. They have their own choice.

Yes I know the fact that they were not children but their mind. YES... because they has no knowledge what good or bad. If they have their own choice then let them instead of get punishment from God. Its freewill... which mean that it´s their choice... why God was angry that´s because they disobeyed them... It make no sense to me.

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Therefore your logic is nosense and negative.

I am sorry that you don´t want to open your mind to see the fact logic on negative and positive on both sides between the bible and reality.

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When you use one word, "house" for your logic, Adam and Eve did not have a house before becoming sinners. God did not kick them out of their house.

Please use common sense... We all know that Eve and Adam don´t have house. I only compared them with our real life situtation.

Eve and Adam were being kicked out of beautiful garden home to compare with the children out of house for disobedience.

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Therefore your logic is nonsense aqnd negative.

I feel sorry for you.

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I did not twist your post, but you did not get what I said. God did not tell Adam and Eve who the Satan is, but my point is that the Satan did not tell them who he is. Get it?

Yes I got it but it´s God who CREATED Adam & Eve, not Satan. If God created them then feed positive and negative to them, not Satan. Reality: I would make sure that my children learn from me before someone tell them because I born them and want them aware what good and wrong. Get it?

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You use the logic for your own denials because of many questions what you asked negatively and many comments what you tell negatively.

You have to face sometimes when there´re negative questions to ask. All what I want to have your positive to my negative questions. Sorry, some of your "postive" answer doesn´t convince my logic view.

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Exactly! Get it?

Good

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Repeatedly you stated here. I already answered this.

Okay, we see different view.

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Exactly! Get it?

Good

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God already forgave them.

No, he doesn´t. Repeatly: Forgive? Accord my bible, Outside the garden of Eden, Adam & Eve had many troubles. They had to work hard for their food. Instead of beautiful fruit trees, they saw lots of thorns and thistels grow around them. This is what happened when Adam & Eve disobeyed God and stopped being His friends. Forgive?

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You jumped out of my comment. God was not angry by putting this tree there. After Adam and Eve became sinners, God targeted at the serpent, the Satan.

I use my logic view which different as your view.

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You use one word, 'imperfect" for your negative, nonsense logic because you said God is imperfect.

I am sorry that you don´t want to see it. The fact is he is imperfect. Did you know the story about Noah Ark? and Job?

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