Is God Perfect? - Page 11

Liebling:-))) · 02-27-2008, 12:01 AM

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Originally Posted by Cheri

Don't misunderstood me Liebling, I was pointing something out to you, the fact that you read JW's bible, and not any other bible as of yet, You took JW's bible as your own bible, this is how you said it "It didn't say that in my bible". I'm not trying to disrespect you from what you decide to read, but to point something out, that JW's people believe in their bible, and you also believe in their bible since you said that it didn't show in the bible you were reading, so that means you believe in JW's Religious.

It´s not just JW bible, I have but Luthern bible as well. I look both bibles what I feel in my heart and visit to websites when I see illogical on both bibles. I also read catholic bible before. None of bibles say like that. I would love to have Christian bible story some day to compare with my different bibles.

I only doing to support my logic what and I see logic on something.

***VamPyroX*** · 02-27-2008, 03:22 AM

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Originally Posted by Reba

Not necessarily. We don't know what God had originally planned about the human birth rate.

I wasn't referring to only the human birth rate, but animals as well... dinosaurs too!

Liebling:-))) · 02-27-2008, 05:08 AM

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Originally Posted by Reba

Genesis 4:25
And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

How does that verse show the length of time that Adam and Eve lived in Eden????

It show clear that she gave birth to a son Seth outside of the garden. She gave birth to a son to replace of Abel whom Cain had killed.

Pew Potato's answer is the best, I ever had read. His answer support my logic view.

How many years did adam and eve live in eden before eating the fruit? - Yahoo! Answers

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Do I need to explain to you about the birds and bees? Adam's fellowship with God was not the same as a relationship with a woman.

Huh? We talk opposite. You talk about sex and I talk about company.

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How do you know that? Were you there? Did you hear every conversation that God had with Adam?

You misinterpreted my post. I only answered your question that they know what they have is garden home and animals because they are alone on earth. Please use common sense.

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I didn't judge them; God judged them.
James 1
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

you claimed that you didn't judge them but your bible and fingerpointed what Jame 1 wrote. No excuse to fingerpoint the bible what and how God judged them. You judge which mean that you support James 1 because you wrote here.

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I didn't deny that God put the tree in the garden.

You deny God's responsiblity to cause those happens.

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Yes, they did. On that day, their bodies became mortal, and the dying process began. Also, their spirits died to God until they repented and He forgave them.

But Adam died at age 930 years old.

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Where did you read that in the Bible?

Please read your bible deep!

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How do you know which things God told them or didn't tell them? It doesn't matter if Eve knew "who" Satan was; she knew that he wasn't telling her the same thing that God told her, and that she was supposed to obey God, not anyone else.

No matter what... God supposed warn them about Satan's existence in first place. Eve and Adam have no clue what "Satan" is about until they ate forbidden fruit.............

Like we parents warn our children to not talk strangers.

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Adam and Eve fell into the sin of disobedience BEFORE their children were conceived or born, so that has nothing to do with what happened in Eden. We don't know how many years passed from the day they were created until they ate the forbidden fruit.

I want to make sure either I understand your post correct or not. Do you mean that their children were convinced or born IN garden Eden? Please answer my simple question. The first child Cain was born Outside or Inside of garden Eden?

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Just because Adam "knew" his wife Eve while they lived in Eden doesn't mean she became pregnant while they lived there. I'm sure you know enough about the facts of life to understand that pregnancy doesn't happen every time a couple has intercourse.

There're no comparison between our present time and their time. At their time, they get pregnant real fast than our present time.

Please read Genesis 1:28:

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"Different religion believers"? If they aren't Christians, how do they know the true answer? Maybe they are experts about their own religions but they don't know a relationship with Christ.

wow

Do you belittle different religion religion believers? What would you say if I say that Christians are also including as well?

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Jesus came to earth with the full understanding that He would die on the Cross. He volunteered for that.

I do not see anything that he volunteered for that but he was ARREST by Roman authorities. If he really volunteered what you said then he would go to Roman authorities himself but he doesn't.

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Why would He need to go to the Roman authorities to request crucifixion?

See your own word... "He volunteered for that." which I disagree that he volunteered for that but the fact is he was ARREST and sentenced to death with crucifixion for blasphemy by Roman authorities.

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If He had done that, they would have ignored Him. Just because someone pops up and requests crucifixion, it didn't happen. That wasn't the lawful process that the Romans followed. The whole process happened the way it was supposed to.

Religion leaders would be HAPPY because they want his dead. This is fact.

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You can't change history.

No, I do not change the history but see the logic fact.

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You can either accept it or deny it but you can't change what happened, even if it doesn't fit your style of "logic".

I do not deny the history but see the logic and do accept the history what and how it start instead of deny the fact.

Different religion believers accept the fact what and how God did to the people accord the bible because it belongs history. It could be not possible to deny that God is an imperfect and murder/killer because it's FACT. He KILLED the people, children and newborns, period. I am sorry if you feel being insult to hear those word but it's fact, not mocking what you thought.

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How can your pastor get you into Heaven?

Simple is: God is not there to clean people's sins but Priest/Pastor doing their job for God. Priest/Pastor do not speak himself but for God to forgives sinners to please God's grace. Priest forgives the sins out of earths and gives sinners a peace for God.

Liebling:-))) · 02-27-2008, 05:29 AM

[quote]

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Originally Posted by Reba

The reality is that the Bible doesn't say anything about "pets".

I did not said the word about the Bible but my own POV which is reality. Can you show me where I mentioned pets in the bible?

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God did not send the first 10 children back to earth. Didn't you read my explanation? I said that Job would see them again in Paradise, not on Earth. Job and his wife had a total of 20 children.

The reason I ask question is because of your own word "added" which is not logic. If it's really add what you said which mean is God add the children for Job and his wife which is not right because Job and his wife created many children themselves as a replacement for their loss beloved ones.

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I don't know if God sent the animals to Job or made it possible for Job to buy them, or if he started with a few animals who were prolific in bearing many more animals. What does it matter? God made it possible, and that's the point. I really don't know how you can miss that.

Good, I satisfy your answer. Here is my answer is: Job positive his life with his strength to do something to re-build his life... create children... provide more animals, etc. The fact is the people should take the example of Job that they should positive their life with their strength with no complaint against God and Satan or blame anyone.

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Apparently, you know that you can't deny that it happened so you are trying to attack the "how" of it happening. You must be getting desperate.

Nope, I do not see anything that I deny it but use fact logic after what I learn from the bibles, websites and the people, school, etc. You know that we learn something new everyday. It does never stop.

Liebling:-))) · 02-27-2008, 05:41 AM

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Originally Posted by Reba

You said it, not me.

Did I say YOU said it? I do not see where I said you said this.

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No, God didn't "forget." God showed us His reason for creating Eve, and showed His designed relationship for Adam and Eve, and all future married couples. He wanted us to know that the relationship between and man and woman is more than what animals require. It's a special relationship, different from what male and female animals have.

Eve was created in the Garden of Eden to be the wife of Adam, as he was lonely. As a result God decides that "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him." and in Genesis 2:21–22 it states.....

Eve (Bible - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

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Yes, there is something "imperfect"--it's your reasoning that's imperfect.

You said this...

Like what lumbingmi said in his post

"I dont think we re arguing whether 'man' is perfect or imperfect. I believe all of us non-religious and religious people all agree that no human is perfect. We re arguing whether God is perfect or imperfect. Like others had posted, God is imperfect in some people's eyes while perfect in religious people's eyes. We wont know the answers so we can only speculate."

is true.

We want to see logic what our bibles wrote...

I already provided some links in my previous posts here why God is imperfect.

Liebling:-))) · 02-27-2008, 05:49 AM

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Originally Posted by Cheri
Jesus never done anything wrong, he did not deserved to be punished for our sins, we should being punished for our sins. So yes, Jesus got worst than we ever will or ever did.

Since Jesus loves us this much to die for our sins, that means so much more than any humankind would ever do.

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Originally Posted by lumbingmi

Historically, there are millions of innocents who suffered and die for no reasons. I can name you few.. Crusaders, Massacre of Native Americans, Iraq War..

FYI, Jesus wasn't only person who love us so much that he died for us. There are many good people who willing to die for others. Our US soilders are good example

Yes, your both posts are good point.

Cheri, yes you are right that Jesus doesn't deserve to punish to death because he did nothing wrong that's because he see different as Religion leaders about God.

lumbingmi, yes I agree with you that it's not just Jesus but the people did the same thing as well.

Liebling:-))) · 02-27-2008, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

Jesus was SINLESS, lived his whole life without sin
The US Soliders are SINNERS, lived their life with sins.

US Solider did NOT die for our sins, they fought for our country.

Jesus died for our sins of all humanity.

Well, I would say opposite:

The fact is: Jesus was in sin mother's womb and being human with flesh.

The fact is: soliders died for our country because they choose to fight for our country and know they risk their live there.

The fact is: Jesus did not choose to suffer to death but he was arrest and sentenced to death by Roman authorites. They made him suffer. He accept it and said that he is going die for our sins.

Liebling:-))) · 02-27-2008, 06:02 AM

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Originally Posted by Cheri

Who is perfect? Are you saying hearing people are perfect and deaf people are not?

Nobody on this earth is perfect.

Liebling:-))) · 02-27-2008, 06:05 AM

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Originally Posted by lumbingmi

I did not blame God. I blame groups who exploited weak people in name of God. These are two different things.

Yes, that's right.

Liebling:-))) · 02-27-2008, 06:07 AM

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Originally Posted by Roadrunner

In the beginning, God did created two wonderful 'perfect' beings...then once the disobedience set in (taking the fruit from the forbidden tree via the temptation), sin made 'man' imperfect--.

~RR

Simple is: it would never happens if God did not place the forbidden tree to test Eve & Adam's faith (temptation) in first place when he KNEW it would happens. Who did in first place belongs responsiblity.

I am not saying that I blame God but the fact what and how we learn from those bible history where it come from.

Liebling:-))) · 02-27-2008, 06:10 AM

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Originally Posted by Cheri
I don't think they "get it" we've been saying this from first page to the end of this page.

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Originally Posted by Secretblend

I think they choose to ignore it cause they dont want to admit that they are wrong and have to obey God if they want to be with him.

By denying things, they can continue to do what they want without guilt.

You said it yourself.

Secretblend · 02-27-2008, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

You said it yourself.

You say it like it's a bad thing. How is it a bad thing?

You will never understand the concept of God and Jesus cause you keep applying logic that you are following. I am gonna tell you that your logic is wrong. Since it is wrong, you cannot see what we are trying to tell you. The Bible is about a spiritual being. Phyisicial logic will not be same as spiritual logic. Until you stop looking at just phyiscial logic and start using spiritiual logic, nothing will change.

Reba · 02-27-2008, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

It show clear that she gave birth to a son Seth outside of the garden. She gave birth to a son to replace of Abel whom Cain had killed.

So? How does that prove how many years Adam and Eve lived in Eden?

Since Seth was born when Adam was 130 years old, we can determine that Adam and Eve left Eden before that time. Seth was born after Cain and Abel. We don't know how much time there was between their births. Even if Seth wasn't born until 30 or 50 years later, that still left many years for Adam and Eve to have lived in Eden, and to have had many conversations with God.

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Pew Potato's answer is the best, I ever had read. His answer support my logic view.

How many years did adam and eve live in eden before eating the fruit? - Yahoo! Answers

That's funny because if you really read his answer you would know that it matches what I said. I'm glad that you like it.

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Huh? We talk opposite. You talk about sex and I talk about company.

You missed the point that God knew that Adam needed a help meet that would be perfect for him as a mate. God was not Adam's "mate".

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You misinterpreted my post. I only answered your question that they know what they have is garden home and animals because they are alone on earth. Please use common sense.

You really have no idea about what was going on.

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you claimed that you didn't judge them but your bible and fingerpointed what Jame 1 wrote. No excuse to fingerpoint the bible what and how God judged them. You judge which mean that you support James 1 because you wrote here.

Huh?

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But Adam died at age 930 years old.

So? That doesn't contradict what I posted. What's your point? I honestly believe that you don't fully read my posts or your own links.

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Please read your bible deep!

Please give me the verse number.

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No matter what... God supposed warn them about Satan's existence in first place. Eve and Adam have no clue what "Satan" is about until they ate forbidden fruit....

How do you know God didn't warn them? Which verse is that?

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I want to make sure either I understand your post correct or not. Do you mean that their children were convinced or born IN garden Eden? Please answer my simple question. The first child Cain was born Outside or Inside of garden Eden?

None of their children were conceived or born in the Garden of Eden. All of their children were born outside the Garden of Eden.

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There're no comparison between our present time and their time. At their time, they get pregnant real fast than our present time.

Huh? Where did you get that amazing medical fact?

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Please read Genesis 1:28:

I did. It doesn't include a schedule for child bearing.

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wow

Do you belittle different religion religion believers? What would you say if I say that Christians are also including as well?

How is that belittling? Christians have a person relationship with Jesus Christ, and non-Christians don't. That's the difference between Christians and non-Christians.

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I do not see anything that he volunteered for that but he was ARREST by Roman authorities. If he really volunteered what you said then he would go to Roman authorities himself but he doesn't.

Please read the answer that I posted. You must have missed it.

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See your own word... "He volunteered for that." which I disagree that he volunteered for that but the fact is he was ARREST and sentenced to death with crucifixion for blasphemy by Roman authorities.

Jesus voluntarily left the glories of Heaven for a humble life on earth that He knew would end in a painful crucifixion. What do you disagree with?

The arrest and "trials" were part of that process. Jesus didn't try to escape, or get a good lawyer, or zap the soldiers. He went voluntarily with them.

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Religion leaders would be HAPPY because they want his dead. This is fact.

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Simple is: God is not there to clean people's sins but Priest/Pastor doing their job for God. Priest/Pastor do not speak himself but for God to forgives sinners to please God's grace. Priest forgives the sins out of earths and gives sinners a peace for God.

Priests and pastors have no power to forgive sins. Only God can do that. If a priest or pastor tells a sinner that he is forgiven then that is a false peace that will lead the sinner to hell. Only God can forgive sins.

Liebling:-))) · 02-27-2008, 03:43 PM

[quote][quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

So? How does that prove how many years Adam and Eve lived in Eden?

Since Seth was born when Adam was 130 years old, we can determine that Adam and Eve left Eden before that time. Seth was born after Cain and Abel. We don't know how much time there was between their births. Even if Seth wasn't born until 30 or 50 years later, that still left many years for Adam and Eve to have lived in Eden, and to have had many conversations with God.

That's funny because if you really read his answer you would know that it matches what I said. I'm glad that you like it.

Nope, it doesn´t match what you said because I know your posts at "long lifespan" thread. ´

that “days” and “years” already were being counted by the time of Adam’s creation

Adam was 130 years old when Seth was born which mean that he and Eve doesn´t live in Garden of Eden longer than 130 years! (accord difference calendar between AD and BC time... )

Calendar Converter and Translator
Calendar Converter and Translator

Please check Calendar then you can count up how old Adam really was when Seth was born.

Please don´t provoke me and think I am stupid and can´t read because I know your posts very well.

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You missed the point that God knew that Adam needed a help meet that would be perfect for him as a mate. God was not Adam's "mate".

Not that God KNEW but he start NOTICED that Adam was a lonely since all animals have company which Adam doesn´t.

As a result God decides that "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him."

Eve (Bible - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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You really have no idea about what was going on.

Whatever

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So? That doesn't contradict what I posted. What's your point? I honestly believe that you don't fully read my posts or your own links.

Are you belittle me or provoke me. Look at your own post... *shake my head* For your information, I can read my own link and can say what I agree or not. It doesn´t mean that I agree everything when I provide links all the time. If I agree everything then I would say... this link support my logic view. If I am neutral then I would say, "Interesting link". If I do not agree with those link then I would say... "I don´t beleive in... " which mean is it do not convince my logic. If you can´t get it then I can´t help you. I would say that you don´t want to see the fact but like to misinterpret and provoke anyone´s posts.

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Please give me the verse number.

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How do you know God didn't warn them? Which verse is that?

Huh?, It look like that you are interesting about verse instead of read the bible deep to see the logic? It look like that you did not know much about bible history but scriptures/verus only?

I read bible history real alot and know about them.

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None of their children were conceived or born in the Garden of Eden. All of their children were born outside the Garden of Eden.

Exactly, that´s what I tried to tell you in previous posts. You kept on misinterpret my posts.

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Huh? Where did you get that amazing medical fact?

Please use common logic.

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I did. It doesn't include a schedule for child bearing.

wow,

Okay - Never mind... I say no more further...

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How is that belittling? Christians have a person relationship with Jesus Christ, and non-Christians don't. That's the difference between Christians and non-Christians.

wow, look at your own post... You think Christians know everything than different religion beleivers because they are not Christians... *shake my head quietly* Yes it shows belittling. You do not see it but I do see it.

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Please read the answer that I posted. You must have missed it.

Yes I have but we have different view on this.

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Jesus voluntarily left the glories of Heaven for a humble life on earth that He knew would end in a painful crucifixion. What do you disagree with?

The arrest and "trials" were part of that process. Jesus didn't try to escape, or get a good lawyer, or zap the soldiers. He went voluntarily with them.

wow... your post make no sense. Jesus can´t escape because many soliders around to arrest him. How could he defend against them then ?

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Priests and pastors have no power to forgive sins. Only God can do that. If a priest or pastor tells a sinner that he is forgiven then that is a false peace that will lead the sinner to hell. Only God can forgive sins.

Okay, please help me to understand how God can forgive sins when he can´t speak the people himself? I only know that Priests and pastors do for God to forgive people´s sins. You call that false peace but you do have pastors in your church or what? What should he or she do ?

Cheri · 02-27-2008, 04:08 PM

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Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

wow, look at your own post... You think Christians know everything than different religion beleivers because they are not Christians... *shake my head quietly* Yes it shows belittling. You do not see it but I do see it.

Christians follow what ever the bible says, We take a careful look at questions being asked and lay out the answers offered in the Scriptures, Unbelievers do not know the answers because they do not study the bible. If you don't accept the authority of what we tell you, then there's nothing I shall can do for you.

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wow... your post make no sense. Jesus can´t escape because many soliders around to arrest him. How could he defend against them then ?

He can defend Himself, What Jesus told his disciples is no secret, Jesus says in exact words "Nobody will take my life; I'll lay it down of my own choice. I have the authority to lay it down and the power to take it up again. That's the task my Father gave me." It's all in the New Testament.

Liebling:-))) · 02-27-2008, 04:16 PM

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Originally Posted by Secretblend

You will never understand the concept of God and Jesus cause you keep applying logic that you are following. I am gonna tell you that your logic is wrong. Since it is wrong, you cannot see what we are trying to tell you. The Bible is about a spiritual being. Phyisicial logic will not be same as spiritual logic. Until you stop looking at just phyiscial logic and start using spiritiual logic, nothing will change.

You think I don´t know about the bible history then is your view. You are here to tell me that my logic is wrong then is your view.

I am not here to belittle you that you don´t know much about the bible history or tell you that your view is wrong, don´t I? ... mmmmhhh

For your information, I know a lot about Bible history because I love to learn about this when I was at school and collect different religion believers´s views. I am still do because I am interesting.

My view is: Bible is a book, it belongs a history, the different religion author wrote. I rather look philosophical logic than talk about spirit because they are reality what and how I learn from Bible history. Oh yes, we all learn where and how we come from thru Bible history. If you want to continue to use spiritual logic then is your choice. I cannot tell you that you are wrong and can´t change you but yourself. You can´t change me but myself when I prefer to use philosophy logic.

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