Could Jesus have been a Jewish Essene - Buddhism syncretist?

InnocentOdion · 02-17-2008, 04:49 AM

As the name says, do you think (non-Christians) think that Jesus could have been influenced by the Essenes and Buddhism? There is evidence that in Jesus' time, Buddhist preachers were in and around Israel and Canaan.

Do some research into it, you might come up with some interesting theories.

Liebling:-))) · 02-21-2008, 06:54 AM

Honestly, I don't know how to answer to this question. You has a good question about There is evidence that in Jesus' time, Buddhist preachers were in and around Israel and Canaan. I never thought about this but I only know that the first religion practiced is Hinduism before Buddhism.

Give me time to search to this.

PuyoPiyo · 02-21-2008, 01:59 PM

I have the same feeling as Liebling, I was speechless to your question... I went to Buddhism's article on Wikipedia and saw a map where the Buddhism religion spread out, it evenually reached the middle east as well. I don't know what to say..

***VamPyroX*** · 02-21-2008, 03:20 PM

If Jesus dabbled in Buddhism, that would show that he wasn't true to his own religion. *gasps* He wasn't perfect.

Reba · 02-21-2008, 03:29 PM

Jesus was exposed to many false religions while He was growing up. For a short time, his family fled to Egypt, where He would have been exposed to their religions. He grew up under Roman rule, so He would have been exposed to Roman pagan beliefs and their belief that the Caesars were gods. So? That doesn't mean He accepted any of those religions.

Jesus grew up in a home where the parents trusted and worshiped God Jehovah, and followed the teachings and beliefs of Jews.

Luke 2
41 Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover. 42 And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast. 43 And when they had fulfilled the days, as they returned, the child Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his mother knew not of it. 44 But they, supposing him to have been in the company, went a day's journey; and they sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintance. 45 And when they found him not, they turned back again to Jerusalem, seeking him. 46 And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions. 47 And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.

Anij · 02-21-2008, 04:32 PM

Hmmm ... what would lead you to believe Jesus would have belonged to the Essenes? - It's highly likely that John that Baptist was an Essene (possibly in the area of Qumran) ... but I'm trying to think of a source text that would imply this of Jesus??

InnocentOdion · 02-22-2008, 09:48 AM

One of the reasons I have come to believe this might be a possibility is because of

The similarity of their messages
Similar stories
Buddhism was around Jesus in his life
We have missing years of Jesus

Quote:

Buddhist Trinity (Tiratna) and Baptism:
"I take refuge, Lord, in the Buddha, the Dhamma, and the Sangha." (DN 31) "Enough, I say, with this external bath. I am satisfied with this internal bath: confidence in the Blessed One." (SN 55.30 Licchavi Sutta)

URL to read Buddhist DN 31: DN 31: Sigalovada Sutta

Christian Trinity and Baptism:
"... baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19).

We also have a concept of considering others like yourself, and I found this passage very interesting:

Quote:

129. All tremble at violence; all fear death. Putting oneself in the place of another, one should not kill nor cause another to kill.
130. All tremble at violence; life is dear to all. Putting oneself in the place of another, one should not kill nor cause another to kill.
131. One who, while himself seeking happiness, oppresses with violence other beings who also desire happiness, will not attain happiness hereafter.
132. One who, while himself seeking happiness, does not oppress with violence other beings who also desire happiness, will find happiness hereafter.
133. Speak not harshly to anyone, for those thus spoken to might retort. Indeed, angry speech hurts, and retaliation may overtake you.
134. If, like a broken gong, you silence yourself, you have approached Nibbana, for vindictiveness is no longer in you.
135. Just as a cowherd drives the cattle to pasture with a staff, so do old age and death drive the life force of beings (from existence to existence).
136. When the fool commits evil deeds, he does not realize (their evil nature). The witless man is tormented by his own deeds, like one burnt by fire.

Does this not sound very similar to something that Jesus taught in his time? However, the reason I think he could have been a syncretist is because these messages are similar, but Jesus seemed to teach slightly differently, i.e., the belief in God--but the core messages are the same.

If one reads this: Buddhism and Christianity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... then I suppose, they are probably stumped. It is no surprise many Buddhists believe Jesus to be a bodhisattva.

We also have the "lost years of Jesus", many have speculated he went to India and Tibet, there is an interesting collection of writings attributed to someone called 'Issa'. Considered Jesus' name in Arabic is 'Isa', then we have an interesting, almost identical pronunciation. (The Arabic Isa, however, has a pharyngeal stop before the i though, so there is a slight difference. This is a funky sound that sounds like you're about to hawk up to spit). However, in order to pass through Tibet from India, you would probably have to pass through Nepal--the Buddha was born in Lumbini, which is modern day Nepal.

Text to read: The Lost Years of Jesus: The Life of Saint Issa - Notovitch - it's huge, but I read the first page only.

So, what do you guys think? Am I crazy?

InnocentOdion · 02-22-2008, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anij

Hmmm ... what would lead you to believe Jesus would have belonged to the Essenes? - It's highly likely that John that Baptist was an Essene (possibly in the area of Qumran) ... but I'm trying to think of a source text that would imply this of Jesus??

The Essenes were supposed to be very.. well, unusual. If we notice, John talked about the Pharisees and Sadducees negatively. If Jesus were aligned with either of the other two, then John would have been contradicting himself. Also, the Essenes are the ones who eventually founded monasteries. I'm not sure if monasteries had been set up in Buddhism at that time, but apparently the Essene view of religion was much more mystical, which is why they went to retreats--similar to Buddhism.

Cheri · 02-22-2008, 10:07 AM

No, Jesus received all of his wisdom directly from God and was not influenced by Buddhism. Maybe Buddhism stole some information from the bible to teach people their way, some Religious groups do that, but not Christianity, we follow every word of God in the bible.

PuyoPiyo · 02-22-2008, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

No, Jesus received all of his wisdom directly from God and was not influenced by Buddhism. Maybe Buddhism stole some information from the bible to teach people their way, some Religious groups do that, but not Christianity, we follow every word of God in the bible.

Buddhism was founded BEFORE JESUS.

Cheri · 02-22-2008, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuyoPiyo

Buddhism was founded BEFORE JESUS.

so was the bible.

PuyoPiyo · 02-22-2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

so was the bible.

Then that's not Christianity, they are Islam, Jews, Muslim, etc. which doesn't believe in Jesus. They only follow the Old Testament.

Also Buddhism was never come out of any Arambic religions, at all, Buddhism was found in the strong cultural of Hinduism. Buddhism then later spread out in middle east. Here's the timeline.

Quote:

563 BCE: Siddhārtha Gautama, Buddha-to-be, is born in Lumbini into the royal family of The Kingdom of Shakyas in modern day Nepal.
534 BCE: Gautama goes outside the palace for the first time and sees The Four Sights, an old man, an ill man, a dead man and a holy man. He is shocked by the first three as he did not know what age and disease and death were, but is inspired by the holy man to give up his wealth. He leaves his house and lives with three ascetics. However he wants more than to starve himself and so becomes a religious teacher.
528 BCE: Gautama attains Enlightenment in Buddha Gaya, modern day Bodhgaya, then travels to a deer park in Sarnath (near Varanasi), India, and begins expounding the Dharma.
c.490 - 410 BCE Life of the Buddha according to recent research [1]
c.483 BCE: Gautama Buddha dies at Kusinara (now called Kushinagar), India. Three months following his death, the First Buddhist Council is convened.
383 BCE: The Second Buddhist Council was convened by King Kalasoka and held at Vaisali.
c.250 BCE: Third Buddhist Council convened by Ashoka and chaired by Moggaliputta Tissa, compiled the Kathavatthu to refute the heretical views and theories held by some Buddhist sects. Ashoka erected a number of edicts (Edicts of Ashoka) about the kingdom in support of Buddhism.
c.250 BCE: King Ashoka sends various Buddhist missions to various far-away countries such as China and Mon-Malay, in order to make Buddhism known to them.
c.250 BCE: First fully developed examples of Kharoṣṭhī script date from this period (the Aśokan inscriptions at Shāhbāzgaṛhī and Mānsehrā, northwestern Indian subcontinent.
200s BCE: Indian traders regularly visited ports in Arabia, explaining the prevalence of place names in the region with Indian or Buddhist origin. For example, bahar (from the Sanskrit vihara, a Buddhist monastery). *Ashokan emissary monks brought Buddhism to Suwannaphum, the location of which is disputed. The Dipavamsa and the Mon believe it was a Mon seafaring settlement in present-day Burma.
c.220 BCE: Theravada Buddhism is officially introduced to Sri Lanka by the Venerable Mahinda, the son of the emperor Ashoka of India during the reign of king Devanampiya Tissa.
185 BCE: Brahmin general Pusyamitra Sunga overthrows the Mauryan dynasty and establishes the Sunga dynasty, apparently starting of wave of persecution against Buddhism.
180 BCE: Greco-Bactrian king Demetrius invades India as far as Pataliputra, and establishes the Indo-Greek kingdom (180-10 BCE), under which Buddhism flourishes.
c.150 BCE: Indo-Greek king Menander I converts to Buddhism under the sage Nāgasena, according to the account of the Milinda Panha.
120 BCE: The Chinese Emperor Han Wudi (156-87 BCE) receives two golden statues of the Buddha, according to inscriptions in the Mogao Caves, Dunhuang.
1st century BCE: The Indo-Greek governor Theodorus enshrines relics of the Buddha, dedicating them to the deified "Lord Shakyamuni".
29 BCE: According to the Sinhalese chronicles, the Pali Canon was written down in the reign of King Vaṭṭagamiṇi (29-17 B.C.E)[citation needed]
2 BCE: The Hou Hanshu records the visit of Yuezhi envoys to the Chinese capital in 2 BCE, who gave oral teachings on Buddhist sutras.[2]

Timeline of Buddhism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For the Christianity, they haven't been founded till the first AD (After Death). That also include the New Testament.

Quote:

The year one is the first year in the Christian calendar (there is no year zero), which is the calendar presently used (in unison with the Gregorian calendar) almost everywhere in the world, because of the current dominance of the Western world. Traditionally, this was held to be the year Jesus was born, however most modern scholars argue for an earlier or later date, the most agreed upon being between 6 B.C. and 4 B.C.

6 Herod Archelaus deposed by Augustus; Samaria, Judea and Idumea annexed as Iudaea Province under direct Roman administration [1], capital at Caesarea, Quirinius became Legate (Governor) of Syria, conducted Census of Quirinius, opposed by Zealots (JA18, Luke 2:1-3, Acts 5:37)
7-26 Brief period of peace, relatively free of revolt and bloodshed in Iudaea & Galilee[2]
9 Pharisee leader Hillel the Elder dies, temporary rise of Shammai
14-37 Tiberius, Roman Emperor
18-36 Caiaphas, appointed High Priest of Herod's Temple by Prefect Valerius Gratus, deposed by Syrian Legate Lucius Vitellius
19 Jews, Jewish Proselytes, Astrologers, expelled from Rome[3]
26-36 Pontius Pilate, Prefect (governor) of Iudaea, recalled to Rome by Syrian Legate Vitellius on complaints of excess violence (JA18.4.2)
28 or 29 John the Baptist began his ministry in the "15th year of Tiberius" (Luke 3:1-2), saying: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near" (Matt 3:1-2), a relative of Jesus (Luke 1:36), a Nazirite (Luke 1:15), baptized Jesus (Mark 1:4-11), later arrested and beheaded by Herod Antipas (Luke 3:19-20), it's possible that, according to Josephus' chronology, John was not killed until 36 (JA18.5.2)[4]
Jesus began his ministry after his baptism by John and during the rule of Pilate, preaching: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near" (Matt 4:12-17). While the historicity of the gospel accounts is questioned to some extent by some critical scholars and non-Christians, the traditional view states the following chronology for his ministry: Temptation, Sermon on the Mount, Appointment of the Twelve, Miracles, Temple Money Changers, Last Supper, Arrest, Trial, Passion, Crucifixion on Good Friday (Mark 15:42,John 19:42), Nisan 14th (John 19:14,Mark 14:2,Gospel of Peter) or Nisan 15th (Synoptic Gospels), (7Apr30, 3Apr33, 30Mar36, possible Fri-14-Nisan dates, -Meier), entombment by Pharisees Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus of the Sanhedrin, Resurrection by God on Easter Sunday, appearances to Paul of Tarsus (1Cor 15:3-9), Simon Peter (Luke 24:34), Mary Magdalene (Mark 16:9,John 20:10-18), and others, Great Commission, Ascension, Second Coming Prophecy to fulfill the rest of Messianic prophecy such as the Resurrection of the dead, the Last Judgment, and establishment of the Kingdom of God and the Messianic Age. See also Chronology of Jesus.

Timeline of Christianity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So Buddhism is much more older than Christianity.

Cheri · 02-22-2008, 12:48 PM

I did not say anything about Christianity bible, I said "bible" Nobody has to have a religious to read a Holy Bible.

The Holy Bible been out way longer before Buddhism.

Secretblend · 02-22-2008, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuyoPiyo

Then that's not Christianity, they are Islam, Jews, Muslim, etc. which doesn't believe in Jesus. They only follow the Old Testament.

Also Buddhism was never come out of any Arambic religions, at all, Buddhism was found in the strong cultural of Hinduism. Buddhism then later spread out in middle east. Here's the timeline.

For the Christianity, they haven't been founded till the first AD (After Death). That also include the New Testament.

So Buddhism is much more older than Christianity.

Who says that all Jews didn't believe in Jesus?

PuyoPiyo · 02-22-2008, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

I did not say anything about Christianity bible, I said "bible" Nobody has to have a religious to read a Holy Bible.

The Holy Bible been out way longer before Buddhism.

Well yeah the old testament is much older than Buddhism, but the old testament was never introduced to Buddhism in India/Nepal area at that time. So I probably doubt that it was old testament that influenced the Buddhism, but Hinduism.

Cheri · 02-22-2008, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuyoPiyo

Well yeah the old testament is much older than Buddhism, but the old testament was never introduced to Buddhism in India/Nepal area at that time. So I probably doubt that it was old testament that influenced the Buddhism, but Hinduism.

Sorry, I don't believe that, that's my opinion.

PuyoPiyo · 02-22-2008, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

Sorry, I don't believe that, that's my opinion.

Is it a fact, or just your opinion? If it was a fact, I would like to know the source

Anij · 02-22-2008, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InnocentOdion

The Essenes were supposed to be very.. well, unusual. If we notice, John talked about the Pharisees and Sadducees negatively. If Jesus were aligned with either of the other two, then John would have been contradicting himself. Also, the Essenes are the ones who eventually founded monasteries. I'm not sure if monasteries had been set up in Buddhism at that time, but apparently the Essene view of religion was much more mystical, which is why they went to retreats--similar to Buddhism.

Scripturally - there's nothing which would indicate that Jesus ascribed to Essene beliefs... in fact most of what we see (if not all) would prove the opposite. In fact The Wedding at Cana, Jesus in the Temple. The woman at the well, The Great Banquet all demonstrate that this is not the case - as the Essene's are believed to have separated themselves and had many Nazarene traits (including social, physical and dietary restrictions Jesus didn't hold to)

As per Buddism ... from what I understand ( and I admit, I haven't spent a lot of time focusing on Buddism) one of the teachings is to live life with as little impact (change) as possible ... to be minimalistic ... and we see time and time again Jesus upturning the rules and expectation of Society - reframing the faith, and challenging the Jews of his time to see things and act in a different way. Raising Lazarus, healing the afflicted, ceasing the woman's blood are hardly "minimalistic activities" ... in which one enters the world, and leaves it with as little "footprint" as possible

Re "Bible" - in Jesus time "Bible" would have meant a variation of what we now know as the Christian Old Testament ... even today we must be careful about using the word "Bible" which still can refer technically ( and accurately) to either the Hebrew Bible (Christian Old Testament) , or the Christian Bible which consists of both the Hebrew Bible, sometimes the Apocryphal texts, as well as the canonical New Testament Books and Epistles. In purely technical Terms Bible ... means Biblia - which just means (assumed, sacred)book.

PuyoPiyo · 02-22-2008, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Secretblend

Who says that all Jews didn't believe in Jesus?

If Jews believe in Jesus, then they are not 100 percent Jew. 100 percent Jewish don't believe in Jesus.

That applies to other religion that doesn't follow the New Testament, but Old Testament.

Cheri · 02-22-2008, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuyoPiyo

If Jews believe in Jesus, then they are not 100 percent Jew. 100 percent Jewish don't believe in Jesus.

Not 100 percent Jewish? Like I said You do not have to have a Religious to believe, to believe is up to an individual's heart, not based on Religious Beliefs. There are some Jews that believes in Jesus because they witness Jesus's miracles.

PuyoPiyo · 02-22-2008, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

Not 100 percent Jewish? Like I said You do not have to have a Religious to believe, to believe is up to an individual's heart, not based on Religious Beliefs. There are some Jews that believes in Jesus because they witness Jesus's miracles.

Exactly, that's why I said if Jews believe in Jesus, then they are not 100 percent Judaism. They only have higher similar beliefs with Judaism, but do believe in Jesus, that's all.

The Judaism religion itself do not believe that Jesus was a God. I was talking about the religion, not the people in my post that Secretblend quoted above.

Quote:

The belief that Jesus is God, part of the Trinity, the Messiah, or a prophet of God are incompatible with traditional Jewish tenets. The idea of the Jewish Messiah is different from the Christian Christ because Jews believe Jesus did not fulfill Jewish Messianic prophecies that establish the criteria for the coming of the Messiah.[6] Authoritative texts of Judaism reject Jesus as God, Divine Being, intermediary between humans and God, Messiah or saint.

The belief in the Trinity, as with many other central Christian doctrines,[7] is also held to be incompatible with Judaism.

Judaism's view of Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, of course, I know I won't believe 100 percent of any of religion, even my religion Theravada Buddhism, I don't believe whole of it, not 100 percent, but I have alot of similar beliefs as Theravada Buddhism so that religion seems comfortable with me with my own heart, plus I already answered Liebling's question, "with all of my heart" at other thread. I am sure Liebling will know what I was talking about.

AquaBlue · 02-22-2008, 06:14 PM

Jesus Christ and John the Baptist were both (most definitely) Essenes. They likely helped out in the storing the Dead Sea scrolls in the caves of Qumran. Also some theologians believe that both Joseph and Mary were hard core Essenes and taught Jesus to be one too. Remember it was perfectly normal for a men-only sect (Essenes) to be joined with like-minded females in order to have offspring.

As a side note: The act of baptism was originally a Persian custom to appease pagan gods. The Essenes adapted this custom, which today is an accepted tradition in all-Christian denominations. I have studied the Essenes (read books and such) thoroughly and is one of the main reasons why I am not a Christian (or any type of spiritual person) today.

02-17-2008, 04:49 AM	#1 (permalink)
InnocentOdion HOH and learnin' sign! Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: England, United Kingdom Posts: 160	Could Jesus have been a Jewish Essene - Buddhism syncretist? As the name says, do you think (non-Christians) think that Jesus could have been influenced by the Essenes and Buddhism? There is evidence that in Jesus' time, Buddhist preachers were in and around Israel and Canaan. Do some research into it, you might come up with some interesting theories.

02-21-2008, 06:54 AM	#2 (permalink)
Liebling:-))) me in Springfield, IL '07 Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 23,809	Honestly, I don't know how to answer to this question. You has a good question about There is evidence that in Jesus' time, Buddhist preachers were in and around Israel and Canaan. I never thought about this but I only know that the first religion practiced is Hinduism before Buddhism. Give me time to search to this. __________________ sniffing you

02-21-2008, 01:59 PM	#3 (permalink)
PuyoPiyo slotting Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Couve Wa Posts: 4,218	I have the same feeling as Liebling, I was speechless to your question... I went to Buddhism's article on Wikipedia and saw a map where the Buddhism religion spread out, it evenually reached the middle east as well. I don't know what to say.. __________________ *Went to beach with my friends, will be back on July 6th.*

02-21-2008, 03:20 PM	#4 (permalink)
*VamPyroX* bloody phreak from hell Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Hell Posts: 25,511	If Jesus dabbled in Buddhism, that would show that he wasn't true to his own religion. gasps He wasn't perfect. __________________ Check out my city... CLICK HERE! (If you already visited yesterday, visit again today!)

02-22-2008, 10:07 AM	#9 (permalink)
Cheri Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 20,001	No, Jesus received all of his wisdom directly from God and was not influenced by Buddhism. Maybe Buddhism stole some information from the bible to teach people their way, some Religious groups do that, but not Christianity, we follow every word of God in the bible. __________________

Today
Deafness	Sponsored Links __________________ This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members. Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com

02-21-2008, 03:29 PM	#5 (permalink)
Reba Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 15,407	Jesus was exposed to many false religions while He was growing up. For a short time, his family fled to Egypt, where He would have been exposed to their religions. He grew up under Roman rule, so He would have been exposed to Roman pagan beliefs and their belief that the Caesars were gods. So? That doesn't mean He accepted any of those religions. Jesus grew up in a home where the parents trusted and worshiped God Jehovah, and followed the teachings and beliefs of Jews. Luke 2 41 Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover. 42 And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast. 43 And when they had fulfilled the days, as they returned, the child Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his mother knew not of it. 44 But they, supposing him to have been in the company, went a day's journey; and they sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintance. 45 And when they found him not, they turned back again to Jerusalem, seeking him. 46 And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions. 47 And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.

02-21-2008, 04:32 PM	#6 (permalink)
Anij Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 305	Hmmm ... what would lead you to believe Jesus would have belonged to the Essenes? - It's highly likely that John that Baptist was an Essene (possibly in the area of Qumran) ... but I'm trying to think of a source text that would imply this of Jesus??

02-22-2008, 12:48 PM	#13 (permalink)
Cheri Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 20,001	I did not say anything about Christianity bible, I said "bible" Nobody has to have a religious to read a Holy Bible. The Holy Bible been out way longer before Buddhism. __________________