Old Testament vs New Testament - Page 9

halford · 05-10-2007, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christlovedeaf

LOL about the whip. Not the Miracle Whip. ROFL

you like Miracle whip? I could never get used to it.. but I really love Hellman's Mayo... Maybe Duke's Mayo as well... oops went off the subject! heh

XBGMER · 05-10-2007, 12:23 AM

I notice that christians wandered off topic from the thread Liebling created about her question into new testament about jesus, God, Hell. You Christians can't stick with her thread's topic..but you def hijacked her thread into blame liebling, because she has lack of understand christians pov, talk about God, jesue, hell, on and on instead of helping her better understand what the between old and new testament.

Her threaded was not ask you about Jesus, God ,and Hell staffs like that.. let me try one more time: liebling made this thread to asking "why old testament and new testament are different". please stick with her thread's topic instead of jesus, God, hell..

Liebling, My personal experince with highest scripture for 13 or more years,

Old testament: prophets of israel rise against israelite people followed another nation's strange god, worship another god, and made them deep sin on and on like history repeat itself. noble prophet choose the king among israelite to throne of israel and jerusalem agian, again on and on.. Prophet ordered king lead armies to war with other nations who try to invaded their land, kill israelites who werent obey Moses's law. on and on.. Moses and all prophets never tell people in israel " go to hell , if you don't follow God's law". Moses and all the prophets warn the king and people of israel, eneimes will come to invaded their land and destoryed their temples out of israel, because they did not clean their evil acts up and did still do follow and worship another nation's strange god like egypt's god on and on instead of worship their forefathers of God in israel.. some prophets healed the wounded people who back their feet like in new testament: jesus , peter and paul did to other who nearly wound to heal back their feet.

In new testament, Jesus, john, peter and discplines warned israel of people don't follow roman's culture and god, etc. they healed the uneducated people on their feet and many heals..

You should notice Moses spoke to israelite people in egypt, cannan, not the world nor egypt of people empire. samething, Jesus spoke to israel of people in jerusalem and israel only, not the worldwide nor rome empire. Jesus told jewish leader, he wasn't purpose to come to destory old testament, but keep old testament which fulfilled. Jesus carried the Old testament around people and leader jewishs in israel and jerusalem till he died.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria

people CAN'T see God spiritually, but God was INSIDE Jesus Christ's body so people CAN see Him. When Jesus left this earth to return Heaven, He was back to Spirit again.

Finally, BINGO! You revealed it to liebling that obviously what the confess you made Jesus christ come in the flesh is [the WORD] of God among people of israel he born from flesh and blood of God like them. But you keep to denied that God remain inside your body and inside people's body like jesus was the man, he was the word of God from flesh and blood which is therefore, the flesh is the word of God, not spirit period.

**Liebling:-)))** · 05-10-2007, 02:57 AM

*Big Sigh on this thread* What an immaturity children fights

Honestly, I'm not surprised to see the problem comes because I KNEW the problem WILL cause as a person read other person's disrespectful post in first place. If the problem is continuely then solve at PM like what Roadrunner says.

Thank you, Roadrunner and XBGMER. I'm appreciate that you post this.

**Liebling:-)))** · 05-10-2007, 03:15 AM

Thank you again XBGMER,

Yes I am the same as you who raise to believe in bible history etc. until I saw the logic then turn into agnostic. I have bibical knowledge as history but little knowledge about scriptures. All what I saw the problem is the author of bibical interpret differently.

Yes, I'm trying to understand Christians' view on between OT and NT. The reason, I created a thread because Christians beleive Jesus is God which I disagree. That's why I created the thread to show them the difference personality between God at OT and Jesus at NT but they still deny and believe that Jesus is God. It's hard to convince them with logic.

I am neutral to any beliefs and like to collect their beliefs then I can question or debate respectful with agree/disagree. I must say that some Christians are total different than many beliefs, I know... Many believers tries to interpret positive which some Christians doesn't but denial, offense and annoy, sometimes tries to postive but keep on saying that we don't understand... etc... when we have different logic on both sides between bible and reality than them to their bible only... It sounds that they have no patience... Oh Well..

I used to beleive in God's exisitance (I was raised by strict Roman Catholic) until I saw the logic and turn into Agnostic. I doubt God's existance and believe Jesus's existance.

Thank you for explain the difference between OT and NT - I know and agree with you but I am wondering the difference personality God and Jesus have between OT and NT. (at OT, God is angry, punish, law, etc. and at NT, Jesus is such loving, caring and forgiving person and teach the people positive) when the Christians claim that Jesus is God? which I disagree. That's what I am trying to say but my questions are being deny over God and Jesus's personality at OT and NT.

**Liebling:-)))** · 05-10-2007, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

I also have a sword, small crossbow, blow darts, telescoping baton, boomerang, billy club, and pepper spray (on my key ring). But guns can take care of the bad guys at a further distance.

(maybe I'll get one of these next)

**Liebling:-)))** · 05-10-2007, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria

Well, Lieblin' ... did you read what I said above ? It apparently to me that you ignored/avoid my post above while respondin' to others' posts.

You still owe my post. I'm *waiting"

for your reply...

Old Testament vs New Testament

**Liebling:-)))** · 05-10-2007, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria

Well, to me God and Jesus are in One and same Person. Ok, I will give you a picture of somethin' here. You have physical body, right ? And, you have a soul inside your physical body, right ? You have 2 bodies -- one is physical body and one is " soul " body, but you will ALWAYS be the SAME person as Lieblin'. When you die, your soul will leave your " physical " body. You will be able to see your " dead " body in front of you when you leave your body.

Same with God. God left Heaven spiritually, not physically. He went in Mary's womb and Mary became conceived. God was born and became physical ( flesh ) body. He wanted people to meet their true Maker ( God ) in real life. And, God's name was changed to Jesus Christ ( Immanuel ) which was means " God with us " -- the reason, Immanuel was given is because, people CAN'T see God spiritually, but God was INSIDE Jesus Christ's body so people CAN see Him.
When Jesus left this earth to return Heaven, He was back to Spirit again.

It's personality, I am referring to, not person.

As you say that we have 2 bodies... Sure, we have soul in physical bodies but our personality is the same. Right?

That's what I am trying to say accord OT and NT that God and Jesus have different personality.

Accord part of your post about Mary's womb. Jesus had mother's soul and phyiscal body (including blood, etc) when he was in his sin mother's womb. correct?

**Liebling:-)))** · 05-10-2007, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

What? Are you expected that every person need have guns? That's none of reason, also there's MANY ways to defend us than gun does.

Right!

**Liebling:-)))** · 05-10-2007, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

Same here, Just depends on what happen, such as from robbery or burglary.

There's some houses in USA that have alarm installed, most are pre-installed in new houses, built after 1990's or so and alarm system would inform to police station instead of dial 911.

Yes it's same here in Germany as well.

**Liebling:-)))** · 05-10-2007, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Defee

NO, you dont understand me...ugh! Read Reba's post #201 and she
said the same thing as me. You just cant protect yourself with
wood, steel, sprays, IF A GANG OF PEOPLE ATTACK YOU WITH KNIVES,
OR WORSE, SHOOT YOU WITH GUNS! is that clear??

Yes, we were train to find way how to protect ourselves and CAN protect ourselves with something than just gun.

**Liebling:-)))** · 05-10-2007, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Defee

UK?? I live in United States of America, duh! and we are allowed
to own guns. and i thought Liebling lives in Germany? i didnt know
Germany are not allowed to own guns? thats news to me! oh whatever.
Ask her then.

Ok, what is other ways to protect ourselves besides guns, tell me.
I didnt know that guns are not allowed in UK?.....whoa! well, prove
it to me...

To own guns in Europe are very restriction which is not same as in America. This is for civil (polices, hunters, guards, army, etc.) Here in Germany, if the people who want to own the gun then train first and get liescne to own a small gun for their house/property safety only, not carry gun to the public or not own many guns in household. They must obey the restriction how to shot in legal way. At UK, none of people own the gun in household but police, guards, army, etc.

**Liebling:-)))** · 05-10-2007, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuyoPiyo

That's different story, I am more point to lost in the desert.

then you will survive within few days without drink liquid.

Hwy99 · 05-10-2007, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

then you will survive within few days without drink liquid.

Yeah, for 4 days, I will die. According to the science.

Now back to the topic...

So, I wonder what if the New Testament don't exist? We will go back to the old world with only the Old Testament. I wonder? I mean what if it was this today, we will be in chaos.

**Liebling:-)))** · 05-10-2007, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christlovedeaf

I read that after I message POV. The problem is, people have no idea the deep meaning of sin. They focus just about behavior, action sin, but not behind it.

Do you think we don't know what sin is about? Of course we do. I think you don't convince what I am trying to explain in my post to Marie. If you disagree then explain me clear instead of tell us that we have no idea what the sin is about.

I am trying my best to explain you again.

Sin = violate the law, religion, steal, murder, rape, lie, etc. etc. etc.
Sinner = person/human who commits sin.

Got it?

It sound hypocrisy to me when the Christians kept says that God hates sin and love sinner. It make no sense. God killed the people because of their sin which mean is God killed sinners... (a person who commit sin).

God free the people's sin which mean is God kill their sin, not people.

Accord the bible that God killed the people because of their sin which mean is Sinner.

If God love sinner as what you says then kill/destory sin itself instead of sinner (person/human). Got it? That's what I am trying to explain the difference between sin and sinner.

**Liebling:-)))** · 05-10-2007, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuyoPiyo

So, I wonder what if the New Testament don't exist? We will go back to the old world with only the Old Testament. I wonder? I mean what if it was this today, we will be in chaos.

Let Christians answer to your question.

Hwy99 · 05-10-2007, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

Let Christians answer to your question.

Sure I will wait

**Maria** · 05-10-2007, 05:30 AM

[QUOTE=Liebling:-)));771209]

Quote:

Yes I know that Christians claimed that God hates sin in their previous posts, that's why I questioned them in my previous posts that God killed the people including babies, toddlers, children because of this? If God hates sin then he should destory sin itself instead of sinner. What I said that God hate sinners because God didn't kill just sin but sinner.

Well, God is in NO way responsible for sin. Satan introduced sin when he beguiled Eve, but the Bible does not teach that sin had its origin with him, either. Sin's origin is to be found in humanity's rebellious nature. There are 2 choices : 1) Read in Ephesians 2:3 - A person's sinful nature is inherited. 2) Read in Romans 1:18-20 - Sin is due to human choice.
Any idea that humanity inherits a sinful nature must be coupled with the corollary that every person is indeed responsible for his/her choice of sin. When Adam rebelled against God, he incorporated all of his descendants in his action. Read in Hebrew 7:9-10 for a similiar analogy. Still, each individual must accept full responsbility for sinful acts. Every person who has lived since has chosen to follow Adam and Eve's example.

As what you says that God loves sinners but why he killed the people who commit sin (homosexuality, sex before marriage, steal, lies, not beleive in him, etc.). If God really love sinners then kill their sin, not sinner (a person who commit sin).

That's right. God DOES love sinners very much. Like I said it was Satan who introduced that " sin " to Eve by causin' her to rebel against God over that Knowledge of Good and Evil tree. Where did that " rebel " come from ? It came from Satan. Satan rebelled against God in Heaven before God kicked him out. I want you to tell me WHAT makes Lucifer rebel against God BEFORE God kicked him out and his name was changed to Satan ? I want you to tell me, if you can understand this story ?
I want to explain to you a little about sin. Ok ?

The Bible has a rich vocabulary for sin:
1) " to miss the mark " as a person shootin' a bow and arrow and missin' the target with the arrow. A person sins by missin' the mark God has established for the person's life;
2) " crooked or perverse spirit, " seen as persons pervert their spirits and become crooked rather than straight;
3) " violence " with the connotation of evil breakin' out. Sin is the opposite of righteousness or moral straight. Sin is a lack of fellowship with God. Anythin' which disturbs or distorts this fellowship is sin. The NT defines sin against the backdrop of Jesus' perfection as the standard for righteousness.

Jesus traced sin directly to inner motives, statin' that the sinful thought leadin' to the overt act is the real sin. The outward deed is actually the fruit of sin. Anger is the same as murder ( Read in Matthew 5: 21-22). The impure look is tantamount to adultery ( Read in Matthew 5:27-28 ). The real defilement in a person stems from the inner person ( heart ) which is sinful ( Read in Matthew 15:18-20 ).
The NT interprets sin as unbelief, the rejection of the supreme revelation as it is found in the person of Jesus Christ, producin' moral and spiritual blindness. The outcome of such rejection is judgment. The only criterion for judgment is whether or not one has accepted or rejected the revelation of God as found in Jesus Christ ( Read in John 3:18-19; 16:8-16 ).

In the OT, the law of Moses was preparatory. Its function was to point to Christ. The law revealed sin in its true character, but this only aroused in humanity a desire to experience the forbidden fruit of sin. The law offers no means of salvation; rather, it leaves humanity with a deep sense of sin and guilt ( Read in Romans chapter 7 ).
God can not tolerate that which violates His righteous character. Therefore, sin creates a barrier between God and persons. Sin blurs the distinction between right and wrong.

For those who have trusted Christ Jesus for salvation, death no longer holds this dread. Christ has negated this power of Satan in makin' death horrible and has freed the person from slavery to this awful fear ( Read in Hebrew 2:14-15 ).

From what I see Christians claim that God hate sins and send them to hell for not beleive in him. I personally don't agree.

It is true. Christians are tellin' the truth. I am tellin' the truth, too. It's true what they say. That sin brings separation from God, estrangement, and a lack of fellowship with God. If a person dies not havin' corrected this problem by trustin' Christ, then the separation becomes permanent ( See Romans 6:23 ).

I thought the same as you as well but some Christians stated in several threads that we will go to hell if we do not accept Jesus or God as savior.

That's right. That's what God says.

Yes your post make sense but some beleivers see different as you. I noticed that many beleivers claimed that a person can't be good in them without God or a person can’t a good person without God. My answer is: I know plenty of unbeleivers have good heart and nice people good and positive morals, that's what I am trying to say that God love us all, no matter what.

Well, you said you know plenty of unbelievers have good heart and nice people good and positive morals ~ Yes, God loves them, BUT they DON'T accept Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour. They rejected Jesus Christ, because they don't BELIEVE Him that He is existed or that He is really God. By refusin' to believe Jesus Christ WILL send them to Hell. It doesn't matter IF, the unbelievers have good heart or not. It doesn't matter IF, the unbelievers are nice people, good and positive morals. It has to do with BELIEVING, not DOUBTIN'.

**Cheri** · 05-10-2007, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XBGMER,

I notice that christians wandered off topic from the thread Liebling created about her question into new testament about jesus, God, Hell. You Christians can't stick with her thread's topic.

Christians are not the only ones that pulled the thread off topic, You should not finger-pointing at the Christians, take a very good look at everyone, if you can't do that then refrain yourself from making such a false comment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuyoPiyo

So, I wonder what if the New Testament don't exist? We will go back to the old world with only the Old Testament. I wonder? I mean what if it was this today, we will be in chaos.

If New Testament haven't exist then that means we wouldn't have the Messiah that would die for our sins, Jesus would not be known. And then we would have gotten death for our sins, instead of being saved.

Hwy99 · 05-10-2007, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

If New Testament haven't exist then that means we wouldn't have the Messiah that would die for our sins, Jesus would not be known. And then we would have gotten death for our sins, instead of being saved.

So, if the New Testament doesn't exist today, and we get the death for our sin instead of being saved, then Jesus would come again just like the history?

**Cheri** · 05-10-2007, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuyoPiyo

So, if the New Testament doesn't exist today, and we get the death for our sin instead of being saved

Correct.

Quote:

then Jesus would come again just like the history?

Huh? Jesus wouldn't exist if there was no Jesus at the begin in New Testament.

**Maria** · 05-10-2007, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liebling:-)))

It's personality, I am referring to, not person.

Ok.

As you say that we have 2 bodies... Sure, we have soul in physical bodies but our personality is the same. Right?

Yes, our personality will always be the same. Once, a person accept Jesus Christ as personal Saviour, then this person's personality will change as a new person ... to become like Christ's.

That's what I am trying to say accord OT and NT that God and Jesus have different personality.

Well, God and Jesus' personality are the same. No difference. Because, when Jesus said to His disciples that they see the " Father " IN Jesus that means they can see Jesus as God when they talked to Him in person face to face.

Accord part of your post about Mary's womb. Jesus had mother's soul and phyiscal body (including blood, etc) when he was in his sin mother's womb. correct?

No, Jesus have His own soul separately from Mary's. Jesus' physical body separated from Mary's when He was in her womb. It was the Holy Spirit inside Mary's womb and conceived to make Jesus.

Hwy99 · 05-10-2007, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

Correct.

Huh? Jesus wouldn't exist if there was no Jesus at the begin in New Testament.

What I was really mean... If TODAY, there's no New Testament, we all hate God, do the sin as much as we can do, and the Old Testament of Bible was completely forgotten, then Jesus will come?

**Cheri** · 05-10-2007, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuyoPiyo

What I was really mean... If TODAY, there's no New Testament, we all hate God, do the sin as much as we can do, and the Old Testament of Bible was completely forgotten, then Jesus will come?

That's only if God in the Old Testament regarding the coming of the Messiah, God has to be the one to be an anointed one (Messiah, Savior, Lord and God).

Hwy99 · 05-10-2007, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

That's only if God in the Old Testament regarding the coming of the Messiah, God has to be the one to be an anointed one (Messiah, Savior, Lord and God).

It has to be the person who is the holy one, God who is holy, so that's why it has to be him.

Ah I get it. Thank you, Cheri.

**Cheri** · 05-10-2007, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuyoPiyo

Ah I get it. Thank you, Cheri.

Are you sure? You can ask me anything I'll try to explain the best as I know how. You're welcome.

Hwy99 · 05-10-2007, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

Are you sure? You can ask me anything I'll try to explain the best as I know how. You're welcome.

Yeah I am sure, when the world complete forgot about God with hatred, then God will come to the world and that person will have a holy spirit inside of God. That would be the Jesus, was I correct?

**Cheri** · 05-10-2007, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuyoPiyo

Yeah I am sure, when the world complete forgot about God with hatred, then God will come to the world and that person will have a holy spirit inside of God. That would be the Jesus, was I correct?

That's correct.

Now that Jesus exist in the New Testament we are saved, and if we believe in Jesus Christ, and accept him in our hearts, We will become a new person, (born again) We will also have God's holy spirit inside of us too, but we will sin from time to time, because it's impossible not to sin, but we will feel guilty when we sin, (It's like God telling us tsk tsk?) but our sins will be forgiven.

Hwy99 · 05-10-2007, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

That's correct.

Kool!

05-10-2007, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

You don't know that some countries have restricted or banned on firearm, such as guns.
Gun politics in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mexico is one of them, also there's warning sign when you are drive to US-Mexico border when you are trying to pass then your firearm or gun will be taken away.

Well, duh! You think im gonna drive to Mexico with my weapons?
LOL! im not stupid! Who said i was going to Mexico?????
Im not talking about going to anywhere with my weapons...geeez.
Im talking about SELF DEFENSE in my home...not going anywhere
out of country.
And yes, i realize that some countries have banned weapons BUT dont
know WHICH countries do ban weapons, thats all.
Im older and wiser than you, u little squeak...lol! *winks*

**Liebling:-)))** · 05-10-2007, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuyoPiyo

What I was really mean... If TODAY, there's no New Testament, we all hate God, do the sin as much as we can do, and the Old Testament of Bible was completely forgotten, then Jesus will come?

Well, if New Testament is not around then we would never know about Old Testament, the history of God, Satan, hell, heaven and Jesus's existance but Evolution.

There're no fights/wars over belief or no relgions existance... peaceful... all what we will talk about Evolution only.

05-10-2007, 02:57 AM	#243 (permalink)
Liebling:-))) Sussi 7.7.86 - 18.6.09 Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 31,038	Big Sigh on this thread What an immaturity children fights Honestly, I'm not surprised to see the problem comes because I KNEW the problem WILL cause as a person read other person's disrespectful post in first place. If the problem is continuely then solve at PM like what Roadrunner says. Thank you, Roadrunner and XBGMER. I'm appreciate that you post this. __________________

05-10-2007, 03:15 AM	#244 (permalink)
Liebling:-))) Sussi 7.7.86 - 18.6.09 Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 31,038	Thank you again XBGMER, Yes I am the same as you who raise to believe in bible history etc. until I saw the logic then turn into agnostic. I have bibical knowledge as history but little knowledge about scriptures. All what I saw the problem is the author of bibical interpret differently. Yes, I'm trying to understand Christians' view on between OT and NT. The reason, I created a thread because Christians beleive Jesus is God which I disagree. That's why I created the thread to show them the difference personality between God at OT and Jesus at NT but they still deny and believe that Jesus is God. It's hard to convince them with logic. I am neutral to any beliefs and like to collect their beliefs then I can question or debate respectful with agree/disagree. I must say that some Christians are total different than many beliefs, I know... Many believers tries to interpret positive which some Christians doesn't but denial, offense and annoy, sometimes tries to postive but keep on saying that we don't understand... etc... when we have different logic on both sides between bible and reality than them to their bible only... It sounds that they have no patience... Oh Well.. I used to beleive in God's exisitance (I was raised by strict Roman Catholic) until I saw the logic and turn into Agnostic. I doubt God's existance and believe Jesus's existance. Thank you for explain the difference between OT and NT - I know and agree with you but I am wondering the difference personality God and Jesus have between OT and NT. (at OT, God is angry, punish, law, etc. and at NT, Jesus is such loving, caring and forgiving person and teach the people positive) when the Christians claim that Jesus is God? which I disagree. That's what I am trying to say but my questions are being deny over God and Jesus's personality at OT and NT. __________________

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