Old Testament vs New Testament - Page 11

xentar · 05-10-2007, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

Hey xentar and others who are Atheists.

Something interesting here for you.

Atheism - Uncyclopedia, the content-free encyclopedia

We athiests wrote that page. What is your point?

xentar · 05-10-2007, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halford

Yes Atheists did kill those who did not believe the same way as they did... You didnt know that? Probably those atheists refused to admit that...

Citation needed. Claims that comes out of one's ass doesn't count.

Quote:

Originally Posted by halford

But the atheist had better sense not to start a war... theyre outnumbered. thats why they didnt start a war.

Why should they start a war?

Quote:

Originally Posted by halford

Anyone know why Soviet Union invaded a religious country named Afghanistain? Soviet Union also invaded many small countries and assumed them as her own. ummmm

Let's pretend you're going somewhere with this. What does soviet union have to do with atheism?

Quote:

Originally Posted by halford

China government outlawed religion in Tibet and slaughtered how many in the name of atheistic communism.

Apparently you're not familiar with the Cultural Revolution and its true agenda. I suggest you read up on it.

**Cheri** · 05-10-2007, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xentar

We athiests wrote that page. What is your point?

I can see why Atheists often criticized and bashing onto Christians.

Quote:

Atheists believe that living in your parent's basement, playing video games, and insulting religious people on internet message boards all day is an excellent and fulfilling lifestyle.

Maybe it's time for me to put you on ignored list, cuz I'm not going to put up with your criticized or bashing anymore.

Gamer12 · 05-10-2007, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xentar

Individual atheists may do evil things but they don't do evil things in the name of atheism.

Stalin did extremely evil things, in the name of, respectively, dogmatic and doctrinaire Marxism, and an insane and unscientific eugenics theory tinged with sub-Wagnerian ravings.

Religious wars really are fought in the name of religion, and they have been horribly frequent in history.

I cannot think of any war that has been fought in the name of atheism.

that's quite so conspicuous in the history.

given the fact that they cannot or refuse to provide the physical evidence of god's existence to us, somewhere along the line they circumnavigate the history and create their own history. it's so annoying.

the wars in the history hadn't declared on the country or people in the name of atheism. none of them did.

**Reba** · 05-10-2007, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xentar

Do athiests kill other people because of other people's belief clashes with theirs? No.

Wrong answer. History doesn't support your assertion.

Quote:

Do atheists start wars that kills thousands or millions of people because they don't share the same 'belief'? No.

Wrong answer. History doesn't support your assertion.

xentar · 05-10-2007, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

Maybe it's time for me to put you on ignored list, cuz I'm not going to put up with your criticized or bashing anymore.

But of course you'll still need to prove to the audience that I did actually bash you.

And believe me, I'm really good at bashing people. But yet, I can't recall ever bashing you.

I just realized something, this is the nth time you've resorted into a personal "you hurt my feelings" post. When will this end? I said it once and I'll say it again, just because my points invalidates yours does not mean we're bashing or criticizing you.

xentar · 05-10-2007, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Wrong answer. History doesn't support your assertion.

You'll have to do better than that. If you want to convince me and others then please give us an actual examples. It should be easy for you as history is very well documented.

Boult · 05-10-2007, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xentar

We athiests wrote that page. What is your point?

and this too
Atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

RussianBoy · 05-10-2007, 12:29 PM

CHRISTIAN is life is full of bullshit... u all ppl belive in the god is self CHRISTIAN.. hell no... the god is Jewish because it was obeyed to the Torah. the bible was stolen torah's "idea from god".

**Reba** · 05-10-2007, 12:33 PM

History lessons are very time consuming. I'll give you some as time allows, from various sources.

Quote:

LITUANUS
LITHUANIAN QUARTERLY JOURNAL OF ARTS AND SCIENCES

Volume 31, No.1 - Spring 1985
Editor of this issue: Antanas Klimas
ISSN 0024-5089
Copyright © 1985 LITUANUS Foundation, Inc.
Lituanus

THE RESISTANCE OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IN LITHUANIA AGAINST RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION

Summary of Doctoral Dissertation
by Rev. PRANAS DAUKNYS
at Pontifical University of St. Thomas in Rome
where he obtained after public defence the degree of
Doctor in Sacred Theology with the mark With High Honours.

The situation of the Catholic Church in Lithuania presents a special case of great concern that should be of interest to the whole Catholic Church and all Christians. The Second World War brought the greatest tragedy of all times to Catholic Lithuania. Nazi Germany signed a secret agreement with the Soviet Union in Moscow on the 23rd August, 1939, the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact — to partition Eastern Europe and especially the Baltic States: Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia, As the German troops marched into Paris on the 14th June 1940, the Soviet Union at that time sent an ultimatum to the three Baltic States and immediately the Red Army with thousands of its tanks, airplanes, other war machinery and Secret Police units invaded Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia on the 15th June, 1940.

The Catholic Church immediately lost its legal rights as the Soviet Communist government gradually introduced Soviet Russian laws concerning religious denominations. An Iron Curtain descended on Lithuania's western border. In an attempt to force the Soviet system and the tenets of Communism upon the Lithuanian people — both of which were unacceptable to them — a veritable storm of terror and violence was let loose. Arrests, tortures and executions, the sudden disappearance of leading personalities in public life without a trace became an everyday occurrence.

The first mass deportations were carried out June 14th-22nd, 1941, and 40,000 people were deported to northern Russia in Siberia behind the Arctic Circle. Most of the deportees were confined to forced labor camps. The deportations were to destroy a large part of Lithuania and to make territory for Russian colonists. On June 22nd, 1941, Germany attacked Soviet Russia. Lithuanians saw but one thing: a chance to overthrow the Communist Soviet yoke and to regain their independence. A spontaneous and general revolt against Soviet rule broke out throughout Lithuania 22nd-24th June, 1941, and the insurgents succeeded in taking full control of chief cities and provincial towns. The fleeing Communist Red Army and the Soviet Security police killed an additional 1,500 Lithuanians. Fifteen priests were tortured and crucified. A Provisional Government of Lithuania was formed and declared the restoration of independent Lithuania, even before the German troops reached the capital. The German Nazis boycotted the Lithuanian Government, suppressed its activities and instituted a German civil administration.

The Russian armies in 1944 swarmed over Lithuania again, subjecting the people to brutal treatment. Thirteen waves of mass deportations to Siberia were carried out between 1945-1950. According to Lithuanians and experts of other nations, the number of genocide victims comes to 1.1 million people, about 36 percent of all Lithuanian inhabitants. The majority of deportees perished as a consequence of inhuman conditions and bad treatment. Armed resistance was organized in Lithuania. The Freedom Fighters bitterly fought the war of liberation for eight years; they were willing to sacrifice their lives in order to regain freedom and independence; they deemed it better to die defending their countrymen than live as virtual slaves. One of their leaders fought his way to the West with another survivor, brought an Appeal to the Holy Father Pius XII from Lithuanian Catholics pledging their loyalty to the Apostolic See and asking consoling words and assurance of the Catholic world that their children shall no longer suffer in spiritual slavery.

When Soviet Russia occupied Lithuania, all publishing and printing houses were nationalized, millions of religious and history books were removed from libraries and sent to paper factories for repulping. What is the meaning of this destruction of a cultural Lithuanian Christian heritage? — It is the fear of truth, the desire to keep the new generation ignorant, the wish to freely utter any lie which slanders the Lithuanian past. A total of 448 churches and chapels in Lithuania have been closed, with the remaining 574 still open. The faithful are permitted to use them upon payment of very high taxes.

Elections were sovietized and compulsory. A single communist electoral ticket is drawn up with the number of candidates exactly identical to the number of seats to be filled. So called elections are an attempt to fool the free world and to intimidate the voters so that they will obey the Soviet Communist regime.

Under Soviet Law in Lithuania, any form of religious instruction to children is forbidden. Instead, children are forced to join the atheist and Communist Youth organizations in schools. Those who do not wish to join are intimidated. Those who are forcibly enrolled in atheist organizations are forced to speak against their own and their parents' convictions. Children are persecuted for attending church.

One of the most detrimental facts to the Catholic Faith and morals of the Lithuanian people is the mass recruiting of people by all possible means to become informers for the KGB — such as bribery, blackmail, the threat of being discharged from work. These techniques are employed as attractive promises of higher education and furthering one's career. Those who do not agree to become informers are threatened with all sorts of punishments.

The treatment of Church administration.

The decade 1944-1954 must be considered the most horrifying in the entire 1,000 years of Lithuania's history. Had the same policies continued in effect for a longer time, not only religion would have been wiped out, but the Lithuanian nation itself would have been annihilated. Nearly every priest in Lithuania was required to present himself for interrogation at one of the 480 centers of terror set up throughout the country. At these centers, the Soviets demanded that each priest sign a loyalty oath, a promise to spy on his own people and to make reports to the police. He was also required to help organize The Living Church, which was to be independent of Rome and loyal to the government of Soviet Russia. As a result of these terror acts, the Bishop of Telšiai, Vincentas Borisevičius, was shot by the firing squad, 100 priests were imprisoned and another 180 priests and three bishops were deported to the concentration camps in Siberia.

The main attack came in the form of great moral pressures, since physical terror only seemed to strengthen and unify the faithful. The Church was the chief obstacle in the view of Moscow's plan to merge and submerge little Lithuania into the giant Soviet Russian empire. It was the Church, said the Communists, which fused the national and religious view into a single ideological battle-front. It is the priests, in the eyes of the Communist Party, who are incorrigible reactionaries and deadly enemies of Soviet order. It is the priests, who bear the greatest responsibility for the failure of the atheistic propaganda to achieve its desired objects. A sermon on even the most innocent religious topic is offensive to the Communists, for they regard the sermon as an aid to spread and perpetuate religious superstitions which Communism strives to eradicate.

Legal resistance, harassment of seminarians.

In December 1971, a group of Catholics took the initiative for the most organized and massive Memorandum yet written by Lithuanians signed by 17,054 Catholics, and sent to the United Nations General Secretary about religious persecution in Lithuania. The Soviet regime was outraged by the Lithuanian Catholics for defending religious freedom and the fact that they gained the world's admiration.

Frequent petitions to the Soviet government emerge spontaneously. They are not answered, but people continue writing against officials of the regime who destroy order and violate human rights. In these circumstances an underground journal The Chronicle of the Catholic Church in Lithuania, came into being March 19, 1972, which publishes texts of statements by believers and clergy, protesting against religious discrimination and suppression, court proceedings against the clergy and laymen for religious activities.

Communist government restrictions have driven one part of the Church into the underground such as the convents, the nuns, the friars, the preparation of theology students, even some ordinations.

The seminaries at Vilkaviškis, Telšiai, and Vilnius were closed, while the seminary in Kaunas was permitted to operate on a very limited scale. The KGB continues with every effort to recruit seminarians as agents. Applicants to the seminary are screened by the KGB and told: "If you do not work for us, you will not be admitted to the seminary." Seminarians are compelled to give written pledges to provide the information required by the security police. The recruiting of seminarians and priests for the subversion of the Church is one of the worst crimes of the KGB.

For the Soviet atheist, the struggle against religion is not a goal in itself, but the most suitable means for consolidating and extending Russian imperialism as it most clearly appears in the occupied Baltic States: Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, incorporated into the Soviet Union.

The ranks of the clergy were depleted by the deportations, arrests and normal deaths. Today, 600 of 700 priests in Lithuania have been in Soviet jails and concentration camps in Siberia. Persecution of religion, waves of arrests, mock trials and imprisonment hardened rather than weakened the determination of the priests and faithful. Priests defend the rights of believers as well as those of their bishops and their own colleagues.

The Committee for monitoring the Helsinki Agreement

was formed in Lithuania in November 25, 1976, and sent a series of documents to the West detailing various violations of human rights in Soviet-occupied Lithuania. The Soviet authorities became furious. How dare their slaves reveal Soviet perpetrated persecutions? Members of the Committee were arrested and put on mock trial and sent to concentration camps for 10 and 15 years.

The Catholic Committee for the Defense of the Rights of Believers was created on November 22, 1978. The Committee acted publicly by publishing about 50 documents, but did not seek any political goals. They are invaluable weapons in the struggle for religious freedom. The Soviet government silently tolerated the activity of the Catholic Committee, but later lost its patience and began to terrorize the members of the Committee. Two members of the Committee, Father Alfonsas Svarinskas and Father Sigitas Tamkevičius, were summoned in 1983 and sentenced to seven years in concentration camps and three years in Siberian exile.

Our concern of solidarity is with the Catholic Church in Lithuania under the atheistic Communist regime, which is seeking to completely paralyze religious activity and to destroy religion. Catholic and Christian news media should report facts of persecution, write commentaries, treatises, suggest prayers, letters to the persecutors, diplomatic efforts, etc....
* * *
The Resistance of the Catholic Church in Lithuania Against Religious Persecution

christlovedeaf · 05-10-2007, 12:35 PM

CHRISTIAN is life is full of bullshit... u all ppl belive in the god is self CHRISTIAN.. hell no... the god is Jewish because it was obeyed to the Torah. the bible was stolen torah's "idea from god".................. OUCH. That is pure hate and that is exactly not true at all. christians are the mainline from the jews. Christians been named from the jews. And that is also, gentiles became christians from the jewish testimonies. Prophesied in OT.

**Cheri** · 05-10-2007, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christlovedeaf

CHRISTIAN is life is full of bullshit... u all ppl belive in the god is self CHRISTIAN.. hell no... the god is Jewish because it was obeyed to the Torah. the bible was stolen torah's "idea from god".................. OUCH. That is pure hate and that is exactly not true at all. christians are the mainline from the jews. Christians been named from the jews. And that is also, gentiles became christians from the jewish testimonies. Prophesied in OT.

Can you believe there's so much hate everywhere even in people? We eventually do live in a crazy world.

**Reba** · 05-10-2007, 12:40 PM

Tibet:

Quote:

Approximately 6,000 monasteries, nunneries and temples, and their contents were partially or fully destroyed from the period of the Chinese invasion and during the Cultural Revolution

The repression of Tibet's culture and religion continues today. Tibetan Buddhism is an integral element of Tibetan national identity, and measures used to implement Chinese government religious policy have been harsh.

China, which promotes atheism, aims to undermine the Dalai Lama's influence in Tibet and maintains strict control over monasteries and nunneries. Political campaigns or "patriotic re-education" require forced denunciations of the Dalai Lama, and there are restrictions on religious pilgrimages. Obtaining a religious education remains extremely difficult or impossible in Tibet.
International Campaign for Tibet: Tibet

christlovedeaf · 05-10-2007, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

Can you believe there's so much hate everywhere even in people? We eventually do live in a crazy world.

It's always has been since Cain and Abel. And also blame game since Adam and Eve. I'm not a christian bec this and that, bec what he or she did to me and constantly blaming whatever it is instead of who Christ is.

**Reba** · 05-10-2007, 12:52 PM

Cuba:

Quote:

...Since he assumed power 1959, Castro defined Cuba as an atheist state to begin a wave of repression against religion. The schools were taken over, education was nationalized, Christian holidays were abolished. Churches were forbidden access to communication media and believers were denied public or social positions. A great number of pastors and priests were thrown out of the country and other went to jail. In other words war was declared against everything related to God....
HE MADE THE GOOD AND THE BAD

**Reba** · 05-10-2007, 01:06 PM

Gulags:

Quote:

GULAGS

Glavnoye Upravleniye LAGerej

Main Adminisitration of Camps

GULAG is an acronym which refers to the the system of forced labor camps in Soviet Russia.

The tradition of forced labor in Russia goes back to the days of the Tsars. This tradition was continued by Soviets and brought to the most disturbing extremes while Stalin was in power. However, Stalin did not pioneer the institution of Soviet work camps-- Stalin was building upon the foundations of the system of "corrective institutions" that early Soviet leadership established:

Peter Stuchka, Eugene Pashukanis, and Nikolai Krylenko, Lenin's ardent supporters, became the reformers of the Russian system of justice, and Eugene Shirvindt, a jurist and writer was eventually put in charge of the network of prisons. All of them were inspired by the same ideas as Lenin. The term "guilt" was deleted from the official vocabulary-society alone was was guilty when its members perpetrated crimes...In the land of socialism there could be no prisons. Prisons were remnants of a capitalist civilization, monuments of barbarism and cruelty. So the very term "prison" was abolished, and the criminal codes mentioned only "places of detention."

From Forced Labor in Soviet Russia by Davin J. Dallin. 1947, Yale University Press. New Haven.

Dallin later quotes the Great Soviet Encyclopedia:

...[The Soviet] corrective labor institutions, in contrast to the prisons in capitalist countries, in carrying out the tasks of obligatory re-education and adjustment of convicts to life and to work in an organized collective.

The Soviet ideals above taken from the Great Soviet Encyclopedia. The "corrective institutions" were far from the reality as the GULAGS in Soviet Russian grew and evolved. In fact, these institutions were living up to, and by far exceeding, the destructive and demoralizing bourgeois prison system that Lenin and his followers so harshly admonished...

Camps were located throughout the USSR. Prisoners were arrested for any of a large number of "crimes." Political prisoners, professional criminals and bytoviks (Dallin translates this term as "offenders againts the way of life.") were all held in the GULAGs. A political prisoner could be anyone of the following:

4. People condemned for their religious beliefs: Catholics, Baptists, members of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, and others. They are distinguished by their high moral standards and the firm strength of their convictions. Against the background of demoralization and mutual enmity prevalent in the camps, these people shine like beacons in the dark....

gulags.html

xentar · 05-10-2007, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

The Resistance of the Catholic Church in Lithuania Against Religious Persecution

"For the Soviet atheist, the struggle against religion is not a goal in itself, but the most suitable means for consolidating and extending Russian imperialism as it most clearly appears in the occupied Baltic States: Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, incorporated into the Soviet Union."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Tibet:

Understand the relationship between China and Tibet. Understand what China is trying to do to Tibet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Cuba:

"new Cuban government was very limiting and suspicious of church operations, blaming them for collaboration with the CIA during the Bay of Pigs invasion and stockpiling arms provided for a "counter-revolution"."
Religion in Cuba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Gulags:

Understand this was under the rulership of Stalin. Don't tell me you forgot who Stalin was. . .

The persecutions were usually carried out for political, not religious, reasons. In each instances you brought out, this was the case. It was always about control of the people.

You have yet to bring any evidence that atheisms fought to abolish religion without any political agenda.

**Reba** · 05-10-2007, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xentar

...You have yet to bring any evidence that atheisms fought to abolish religion without any political agenda.

Apparently denial is not just a river in Egypt.

Have you ever brought any evidence that so-called "religious" wars weren't fought without any political agendas?

**Reba** · 05-10-2007, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xentar

... Don't tell me you forgot who Stalin was. . .

Nope, even though I was just a toddler when he died.

Quote:

The persecutions were usually carried out for political, not religious, reasons.

Just "usually", not always?

Quote:

In each instances you brought out, this was the case. It was always about control of the people.

If that were the case, why didn't they just establish a new state religion that would have even a tighter control then abolishing religion completely? Why not use an infrastructure and hierarchy that was already in place? Why did they call themselves atheist states?

Yes, it was atheists attempting to control the human spirit.

xentar · 05-10-2007, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Apparently denial is not just a river in Egypt.

Have you ever brought any evidence that so-called "religious" wars weren't fought without any political agendas?

Lots. Both modern and ancient. I'll name one you're already familiar but probably forgot. The Spanish Inquisition.

You know, I've always wondered what life would be like today if we didn't have the Dark Ages, that literally sets us back by at least 500 years in terms of science ..and..well just about everything else really.

**Reba** · 05-10-2007, 01:49 PM

China:

Quote:

...Human Rights in China (HRIC), in a recently released statement, reported that the chief rationale behind the adoption of new regulations—“to deal with new situations and issues that have emerged in recent years with China's rapid socioeconomic development”—indicates that the Chinese central government has again drafted a document not to protect, but to regulate all religious activities.

“Since the late 1970s China has allowed believers greater latitude for worship, but in exchange for accepting a regulatory structure designed to limit clergy autonomy and stifle congregational growth,” the organization wrote in the Mar. 14 statement.

HRIC said the principal mechanism through which the state maintains its control continues to be prior government approval—a system of “registration”—for the establishment of any religious group or place of worship. In light of this complete state control, the system effectively nullifies freedom of religion, as any unregistered group, site, or activity is “illegal”.

The new regulations aim to “further standardize the registration system for the establishment of a religious body or site for religious activities," perpetuating and strengthening the existing system.

Chan Kim-kwong, a China expert at the Hong Kong Christian Council, told the Agence-France Presse in December that "For those which are not registered, Chinese government's dismissal of them in terms of banning or punishment will be stepped up."

"These groups will have even less room for survival," he added. "When the grey areas have gone and if you're not registered, you won't be in the game anymore."

HRIC reported that “a detailed analysis of the provisions clearly indicates that there has been no paradigm shift in the administration of religion, but rather a continuation of the classic pattern of state-controlled religion."

The agency also noted that the regulatory devices that have been used in the suppression of legitimate religious activities in the past remain in the current regulations. These devices include:

1) mandatory prior registration;
2) patriotic character of the clergy; and
3) protection of national and public order and prohibition of religious extremism.

On these grounds, the HRIC reports that authorities continue to:

1) routinely arrest and detain religious figures or parishioners;
2) cancel the registration of religious groups;
3) close religious venues;
4) oversee overhaul religious personnel;
5) impose administrative punishment (including fines and short-term detention);
6) administrative harassment; and
7) impose restrictions on religious personnel movements, contacts, visits and correspondence.

In its conclusion, the HRIC said it appeared that the premise for the Chinese government to adopt this new set of regulations was not based on the desire to make freedom of religion available to its citizens, but was “motivated by its overarching need to regulate freedom of association in the name of national security and public order.”
http://www.christianpost.com/article...egulations.htm

xentar · 05-10-2007, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Nope, even though I was just a toddler when he died.

Then don't let your ignorance get in the way. Start reading up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Just "usually", not always?

Replace usually with always. A small oversight on my part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

If that were the case, why didn't they just establish a new state religion that would have even a tighter control then abolishing religion completely? Why not use an infrastructure and hierarchy that was already in place? Why did they call themselves atheist states?

Yes, it was atheists attempting to control the human spirit.

Did you read any of the links I gave you? They didn't abolish religion completely. Religion was still being practiced. And in russia's case tried to put KGB as priests, etc. And Hitler is a good example of actually trying to establish a new state religion.

Please Please Please read more before you ask questions.

xentar · 05-10-2007, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

China: indicates that the Chinese central government has again drafted a document not to protect, but to regulate all religious activities.

Hey look, another political agenda. Chinese central government isn't Atheist. It's a political government, and its agenda is to regulate religion.

....why the heck did you post another one in the same context as your previous posts? You're only solidifying my points here.

**Reba** · 05-10-2007, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xentar

... I'll name one you're already familiar but probably forgot. The Spanish Inquisition....

No, I haven't forgotten the Spanish Inquisition; I've made several posts about it in the past. What's your point? I never denied that some religious organizations started wars or persecutions.

From a website that seems to be popular here:

"The Spanish Inquisition was an institution that had precedents in other Inquisitions. The reconquest of Spain from the Moors resulted in a relatively peaceful multi-religious society, but violent anti-Judaism ensued and Jews converted en masse to the Catholic faith. Some of these conversos were suspected of not being sincere converts and the Alhambra Decree in 1492 ordered all Jews to leave their kingdoms, making about 40,000 Jews leave. Various motives have been proposed for the monarch to start the Inquisition, such as increased political authority, weakening opposition, doing away with conversos and sheer profit."
Spanish Inquisition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Boult · 05-10-2007, 01:59 PM

Reba, I guess you can't shoot this one down..

Crusades - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

xentar · 05-10-2007, 02:03 PM

oh snap

**Reba** · 05-10-2007, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xentar

Replace usually with always. A small oversight on my part.

Small oversight? Or Freudian slip. :hmm;

Quote:

... They didn't abolish religion completely. Religion was still being practiced. And in russia's case tried to put KGB as priests, etc. And Hitler is a good example of actually trying to establish a new state religion....

During some periods there was complete abolishment of religion. Some governments allowed state-controlled "churches" that were churches in name only; they were still under atheist government control.

**Reba** · 05-10-2007, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boult

Reba, I guess you can't shoot this one down..

Crusades - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I've made posts about the Crusades before. What do you expect me to say? I've never supported any papal wars. What else is new? I've never denied that some religious organizations have initiated wars. So?

xentar · 05-10-2007, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

Small oversight? Or Freudian slip. :hmm;

Oh get over it already. Enough with the strawman argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reba

During some periods there was complete abolishment of religion. Some governments allowed state-controlled "churches" that were churches in name only; they were still under atheist government control.

Ok so all you've proven here is that the government can use atheism for its own political agenda. The government tried persecuting its own people.

But you have yet to prove any wars were started over atheism beliefs. So far, it's only been over clashes of religious differences that created wars.

**Reba** · 05-10-2007, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xentar

Hey look, another political agenda. Chinese central government isn't Atheist. It's a political government, and its agenda is to regulate religion.

They aren't atheist? I'm sure that will be news to them.

Quote:

...why the heck did you post another one in the same context as your previous posts? You're only solidifying my points here.

Dream on.

05-10-2007, 12:35 PM	#311 (permalink)
christlovedeaf Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: toledo,ohio Posts: 1,868	CHRISTIAN is life is full of bullshit... u all ppl belive in the god is self CHRISTIAN.. hell no... the god is Jewish because it was obeyed to the Torah. the bible was stolen torah's "idea from god".................. OUCH. That is pure hate and that is exactly not true at all. christians are the mainline from the jews. Christians been named from the jews. And that is also, gentiles became christians from the jewish testimonies. Prophesied in OT. __________________ I can only imagine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV9jiqS-74g

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05-10-2007, 12:29 PM	#309 (permalink)
RussianBoy Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Location: new york city Posts: 2	CHRISTIAN is life is full of bullshit... u all ppl belive in the god is self CHRISTIAN.. hell no... the god is Jewish because it was obeyed to the Torah. the bible was stolen torah's "idea from god".

05-10-2007, 02:03 PM	#326 (permalink)
xentar Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 275	oh snap