netrox

Yiffzer, from "Is Islam a Threat" thread that I made a while ago, I am under the impression that you support Islam or is a Muslim?

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SxyPorkie

I think yiffy is a Muslim.... he claimed he is agnostic... I dont think he is.. after reading his posts...

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Yiffzer

I'm Jewish by bloodline as my mother is Jewish. My father is Catholic. My descendants go back to the era of Israelites and Eastern European. I am not a Muslim but have studied Islam and other Abrahamic religions for the past few years while also involving myself in the Jewish and Islamic community. I have been through debates online and in person. I play several roles:

Defending Religion against evolution.
Defending Evolution against Religion.
Defending Judaism against Christianity.
Defending Christianity against Islam.
Defending Islam against all Religions.
Defending Agnosticism/Atheism against Religion/God.
Defending Islam against Atheism.

However, I find myself defending Islam more since Islam is largely under attack by the general population including my family and friends. I can understand all sides but to decide which remains the truth is very difficult. But I have to admit, I find myself leaning on the side of Islam since I find it convincing and sensible (faith & reason).

In other words, you might call me a comparative religion studier.

Reba

Your descendants???

What about your ancestors?

netrox

Islam is not a religion of reason, nor a religion of peace. It speaks of violence and murder. It threatens unbeleivers of being sent to hell.

Show me proof that it doesn't teach violence. There is absolutely no peace until you submit to Allah.

Yiffzer

Netrox, I have been through this literally hundreds of times - at meetings, at round tables of lunch and dinner, at forums, in my own very house. It bothers me greatly on how stupid people can be to accuse something without understanding or knowing the proper approach to a case.

Some questions for you and please be honest with your answers. I know people who claim to be "scholars" of a religion yet I catch them lacking any knowledge of what they claim to study. How long have you been researching Islam for? Did you research Islam with an objective point of view (i.e. neutral)? What type of sources did you use? Do you know of Islam's history? Oh, I'm sure you'll google to find some of the answers to my posts as soon as you're done reading this. Don't disappoint me...

Edit: Refer to the "Is Islam a Threat?" thread. Basically Teresh mows everyone down and I refuted Heath's insanity.

netrox

No, I am serious. I have READ Koran, unlike most people and I find it to be filled with filth, much worse than the Bible.

netrox

Let me list violence and cruelity by Koran (and mind you, the Bible has some more BUT that's because the Bible has a LOT more stories while the Koran is several hundred pages less! So, Koran packs a LOT more violence than the Bible.

Here's a few verses citing violence on people:

Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 2:6

Allah has sickened their hearts. A painful doom is theirs because they lie. 2:10

A fire has been prepared for the disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones. 2:24

Disbelievers will be burned with fire. 2:39, 90

"Whosoever hath done evil and his sin surroundeth him; such are rightful owners of the Fire." 2:81

If you believe in only part of the Scripture, you will suffer in this life and go to hell in the next. 2:85

Jews are the greediest of all humankind. They'd like to live 1000 years. But they are going to hell. 2:96

For disbelievers is a painful doom. 2:104

For unbelievers: ignominy in this world, an awful doom in the next. 2:114

"And thou wilt not be asked about the owners of hell-fire." (They are the non-muslims.) 2:119

Allah will leave the disbelievers alone for a while, but then he will compel them to the doom of Fire. 2:126

The doom of the disbelievers will not be lightened. 2:162

Allah is severe punishment! 2:165-6

They will not emerge from the Fire. 2:167

Those who hide the Scripture will have their bellies eaten with fire. Theirs will be a painful doom. 2:174

How constant are they in their strife to reach the Fire! 2:175

"Fight in the way of Allah." 2:190, 2:244

Believers must retaliate. Those who transgress will have a painful doom. 2:178

Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2

"Guard us from the doom of Fire." 2:201

Those who fail in their duty to Allah are proud and sinful. They will all go to hell. 2:206

War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not. 2:216

Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire. 2:217

Those who marry unbelievers will burn in the Fire. 2:221

Disbelievers worship false gods. The will burn forever in the Fire. 2:257

"Those who swallow usury ... are rightful owners of the Fire." 2:275

Those who disbelieve the revelations of Allah, theirs will be a heavy doom. 3:4

Those who disbelieve will be fuel for the Fire. 3:10

Those who disbelieve shall be overcome and gathered unto Hell. 3:12

"Guard us from the punishment of Fire." 3:16

Those who disbelieve, promise them a painful doom. 3:21

"They [Christians and Jews] say: The Fire will not touch us save for a certain number of days. That which they used to invent hath deceived them regarding their religion." (The Fire will burn them forever.) 3:24

Theirs will be a painful doom. 3:77

All non-Muslims will be rejected by Allah after they die. 3:85

Disbelievers will be cursed by Allah, angels, and men. They will have a painful doom. 3:87-88

Disbelievers will have a painful doom. And they will have no helpers. 3:91

"Ye were upon the brink of an abyss of fire, and He did save you from it." 3:103

Disbelievers will have their faces blackened on the last day. They will face an awful doom. 3:105-6

Those who disbelieve will be burnt in the Fire. 3:116

The Fire is prepared for disbelievers. 3:131

We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire 3:151

"Is one who followeth the pleasure of Allah as one who hath earned condemnation from Allah, whose habitation is the Fire?"
Unbelievers will burn forever in the Fire. 3:162

Theirs will be an awful doom. 3:176

Disbelievers do not harm Allah, but will have a painful doom. 3:177

Disbelievers will have a shameful doom. 3:178

Whoso is removed from the Fire and is made to enter paradise, he indeed is triumphant." (The rest will burn forever in the Fire.) 3:185

Those who brag about doing good will go to hell. 3:188

"Preserve us from the doom of Fire." 3:191

"Our Lord! Whom Thou causest to enter the Fire: him indeed Thou hast confounded. For evil-doers there will be no helpers." 3:192

Disbelievers will go to Hell. 3:196

Don't steal from orphans (or Allah will burn you forever in hell). 4:10

Those who disobey Allah and his messenger will be burnt with fire and suffer a painful doom. 4:14

For the disbelievers and those who make a last-minute conversion, Allah has prepared a painful doom. 4:18

"We shall cast him into Fire, and that is ever easy for Allah." 4:30

For disbelievers, We prepare a shameful doom. 4:37

Hell is sufficient for their burning. 4:55

Unbelievers will be tormented forever with fire. When their skin is burned off, a fresh skin will be provided. 4:56

Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars. 4:74

Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil. 4:76

Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:89

If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant. 4:91

Believers who kill believers will face the awful doom of hell. 4:93

"Their habitation will be hell, an evil journey's end." 4:97

Those who oppose the messenger and become unbelievers will go to hell. 4:115

Allah will lead them astray and they will go to hell. 4:119-121

Those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe and disbelieve again will never be forgiven by Allah. 4:137

For the hypocrites there will be a painful doom. 4:138

Allah will gather hypocrites and disbelievers into hell. 4:140

The hypocrites will be in the lowest part of hell and no one will help them there. 4:145

You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom. 4:150-151

For the wrongdoing Jews, Allah has prepared a painful doom. 4:160-1

God will guide disbelievers down a road that leads to everlasting hell. 4:168-169

If you don't do good works, Allah will punish you with a painful doom. 4:173

Those who deny Islam will be losers in the Hereafter. 5:5

Disbelievers are the rightful owners of Hell. 5:10

"The owners of the fire. That is the reward of evil-doers." 5:29

Those who make war with Allah and his messenger will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. That is how they will be treated in this world, and in the next they will have an awful doom. 5:33

Disbelievers will have a painful doom. 5:36

Disbelievers will want to come out of the Fire, but will not. Their will be a lasting doom. 5:37

Cut off the hands of thieves. It is an exemplary punishment from Allah. 5:38

Allah makes some people sin. He will not cleanse their hearts. They will have ignominy in this world, and in the Hereafter an awful doom. 5:41

Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, and tooth for tooth. Non-muslims are wrong doers. 5:45

Christians will be burned in the Fire. 5:72

Christians are wrong about the Trinity. For that they will have a painful doom. 5:73

Muslims that make friends with disbelievers will face a doom prepared for them by Allah. 5:80

Disbelievers will be owners of hell-fire. 5:86

Allah will test believers to see if they are afraid. Those who fail a second test will suffer a a painful doom. 5:94

Many generations have been destroyed by Allah. 6:6

Disbelievers will say when they see the Fire that they would have believed if they had known the truth. But they are all liars. 6:27-28

Allah will torment those how deny his revelations. 6:49

Those who disbelieve will be forced to drink boiling water, and will face a painful doom. 6:70

When nonbelievers die, the angels will deliver to them doom and degradation. 6:93

Allah allows some to disbelieve in the afterlife, and to take pleasure in their disbelief, so that he can torment them forever after they die. 6:113

Allah chooses to lead some astray, and he lays ignominy on those who disbelieve. 6:125

Allah will send everyone the Fire, except those he chooses to deliver. 6:128

Let the idolaters kill their children. It is Allah's will. 6:137

The worst thing anyone can do is deny the revelations of Allah. Those who do so will be awared an evil doom. 6:157

How many a township have We destroyed! As a raid by night, or while they slept at noon, Our terror came unto them. 7:4-5

Allah banishes Iblis and promises to fill hell with those who are mislead by him. 7:18

Disbelievers are the rightful owners of the Fire. 7:36

Entire nations have entered the Fire. Some get a double torment. 7:38

"Taste the doom for what ye used to earn." 7:39

Disbelievers will be excluded from heaven. Theirs will be a bed of hell. 7:40-41

Those in the fire will be taunted by those in the Garden. "So how's it going down there? Are you enjoying the warmth of the Fire?" 7:44

Those in the Garden will plead with Allah not to be cast into the Fire. 7:47

Those in the Fire will cry out to those in heaven, saying: "Pour water on us." But Allah has forbidden that to disbelievers. 7:50

"Why preach ye to a folk whom Allah is about to destroy or punish with an awful doom?" 7:164

Allah has already sent many people and jinn to hell. They were worse than cows: they couldn't see or hear and were neglectful. 7:179

Allah will throw fear into the hearts of the disbelievers, and smite their necks and fingers. 8:12

Disbelievers will be tormented in the Fire. 8:14

When you fight with disbelievers, do not retreat. Those who do will go to hell. 8:15-16

Those that the Muslims killed were not really killed by them. It was Allah who did the killing. 8:17

"Rain down stones on us or bring on us some painful doom!" 8:32

Taste of the doom because ye disbelieve. 8:35

Those who disbelieve will be gathered into hell. 8:36

"The wicked will He place piece upon piece, and heap them all together, and consign them unto hell." 8:37

The angels smite the face and backs of disbelievers, saying: "Taste the punishment of burning!" 8:50

The worst beasts in Allah's sight are the disbelievers. 8:55

Don't let the disbelievers think they can escape. They are your enemy and the enemy of Allah. 8:59-60

Had it not been for an ordinance of Allah which had gone before, an awful doom had come upon you." 8:68

Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to those who disbelieve. 9:3

Slay the idolaters wherever you find them. 9:5

Don't let idolaters tend the sanctuaries. Their works are in vain and they will be burned in the Fire. 9:17

Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to the rich and greedy Christian monks and Jewish rabbis. 9:34

Those who are tormented in the Fire will have their foreheads and backs branded. 9:35

If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom. 9:39

Disbelievers go to hell. 9:49

"Allah will afflict you with a doom from Him or at our hands." 9:52

Those who vex the Prophet, for them there is a painful doom. 9:60

Those who oppose Allah and His messenger will burn in the fire of hell. 9:63

Allah promises hypocrites and disbelievers the fire of hell. Allah curses them. They will have a lasting torment. 9:68

Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway. 9:73

Allah will afflict disbelievers with a painful doom in this world and the Hereafter. 9:74

"Theirs will be a painful doom." 9:79

Those who refuse to give their wealth and lives to Allah will face the fire of hell. 9:81-83

For disbelievers there will be a painful doom. 9:90

Non-muslim who pretend to believe (so they won't be killed by Muslims) are unclean and will go to hell. 9:95

The unbelieving Arabs will be punished by Allah with an evil fortune. 9:97-98

"We shall chastise them twice; then they will be relegated to a painful doom." 9:101

Those that ignore Allah will be thown into the fire of hell. 9:109

Believers must fight for Allah. They must kill and be killed , and are bound to do so by the Torah, Gospel, and Quran. But Allah will reward them for it. 9:111

Don't pray for idolaters (not even for your family) after it is clear they are people of hell-fire. 9:113

Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you. 9:123

Disbelievers will have a boiling drink and a painful doom. 10:4

Those who neglect Allah's revelations will make their home in the Fire. 10:7-8

Allah has destroyed entire generations. 10:13

"Such are rightful owners of the Fire." 10:27

On the last day Allah will kill all the disbelievers (and then he will torture them forever in hell). 10:45

netrox

It's all you need to know it's a book of filth. How can you POSSIBLY justify those atrocities?

Yiffzer

How about you start answering my questions, netrox.
Quoting individual verses mean nothing, netrox.

Funny, you copy/paste all the verses you could find. Pathetic. :p
http://p4h.humanists.net/Islam%20peace/QuranPeace.html

netrox

They are not taken out of context. They really meant it. A loving God would never say such filth. It comes from skeptics website.

Once again, you're trying to rationalize their verses by saying they're out of context but they are NOT out of context. They're filled with so much hatred.

Yiffzer

Netrox, answer my questions. It's that simple.

Edit: I noticed something fishy about those verses that you pasted. Some of the verses were twisted so terribly. I know the Skeptic's site and they are pretty biased on unfair terms. They use their own interpretations of the verses rather than official translations as commonly accepted such as Yusuf Ali's.

netrox

I am NOT a scholar of Islam and I have NO intention to become one. All I needed was to read the Koran.

And once again, you're evasive. The verses aren't twisted. It's HOW Islam treated unbelievers. You say it's taken out of context... you are SO wrong.

The Holy Qur'an

So, tell me how this is "out of context" - it's filled iwth bashing non-believers and condemnations.

And on "Unbelievers" chapter, it said, "you have your religion, I have mine."

The Holy Qur'an

But the issue is LACK OF RESPECT for unbelievers.

And by supporting Islam, you're supporting lack of respect among unbelievers. That's why I don't respect Isalm at all.

You get all upset when I say Islam is evil but it IS evil. It started with evil condemnations and name-calling and mistreatments so how the hell do you think I should respect Islam?

netrox

Let the Jews and Christians know that Allah hates them:

"And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

The Holy Qur'an

Once again, the chapter is filled with plenty of condemnations. Islam is the religion of hate, ignorance, and disrespect.

nightcrickets

Even though I don't believe in Isalm, I have a theory. I believe God have a purpose for each group. Christians, Judism and Muslims. all three group is waiting for the Lord return, but it will make sense in the end.
Here what I think the bible says about Islams
Gen 16:11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.
Gen 16:12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

I believe Jesus is Lord in flesh, the Messiah or a savior.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

I believe God is like a molecules or a cluster of grapes, he can be the Holy Spirit, the son, and the Father in One.

mecooncat

I found this link:

Differences between the Bible and the Koran

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Yiffzer

Netrox, you're failing to answer my questions first. You're being evasive. If you do this any further, I will ignore this thread and contribute it to your ignorance and stupidity.

Yiffzer

Can you not hijack the thread? Delete your posts from here. Nothing of Christianity, please.

netrox

What's the question? I said I have no intention to become a scholar as it has NO bearing to what the Koran ITSELF says. No amount of rationalization can "gloss" over the atrocities in the Koran. The only source I read was the Koran ITSELF and nothing else. Their verses are enough for me to say that it's a wicked book.

nightcrickets

This whole thread should have been done in PM.

netrox

What's PM?

shel90

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Yiffzer

Can you stop babbling and answer the questions? It's really sad that you make no effort to answer these simple questions. Evasive, aren't you?

How long have you been researching Islam for?
Did you research Islam with an objective point of view (i.e. neutral)?
What type of sources did you use?
Do you know of Islam's history?
Are you aware of the exceptions within rules in Islam?

I'm beginning to doubt that you did read the entire Qur'an. If you did, you have yet to prove it. Did you simply ignore the positive verses that changed the conditions of Arabia centuries ago?

netrox

Once again, I said I HAVE NO INTENTION TO BECOME A SCHOLAR. I know nothing about the events happening OUTSIDE The Koran. I am talking about the Koran ITSELF.

Same with the Bible. I point out problems with Christian's interpretations of NT and Jews as well with their Torah.

Yiffzer

Then you know nothing. It's that simple, Netrox. Don't try to point out "problems" when you know nothing. I'll ask you a simple question:

Why were these verses condemning the Jews, Christians, and Disbelievers?

It is easy to point out a "problem" yet it is difficult to prove that it is a "problem" if you have no knowledge of why or how to do so. We all go through that once in a while. We become overly confident with our comprehension level that we can easily point out things that appear to be wrong. But ah! It isn't wrong. It is ourselves that is wrong.

nightcrickets

Private message. If you were going to start a thread just to ask a personal question, like you just did, you could have just send a private message.

netrox

No, I don't know but one thing for sure, they made it clear - they hate them and wished them nothing but hell and eternal condemnation. Why do you have to rationalize on why they do that? There is simply NO JUSTIFICATION for those verses.. nada.

However, I'd like to hear your defense.

nightcrickets

I am not sure what they mean in Islam, because we have a verse like this:

Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

It is easy to think that Jesus expect you to hate your family, but actually, he doesn't because as you continue to study the bible, it says to love the sinner, and hate the sin and things like that. This particular verse just trying to say to love God with all your heart, more than your family. Your family shouldn't be above God. Afterall, if you believe in God, it is He that provided you the family.

Yiffzer

Netrox, if you don't know, then shut up. Really. The fact you're so ignorant and claim there's no rationalization to these verses prove you're so stupid. I will not waste my "defending" Islam because you make yourself look like quite the fool. Besides, God explained:

"Why preach ye to a folk whom Allah is about to destroy or punish with an awful doom?" 7:164

Aww, Netrox. I'm sorry if that was a threat... Newb.

Yiffzer

*In Islam, it is somewhat more stricter. So it may seem violent by condemning things but since Islam is the final religion of all religions, it has made certain laws to be completely set without excuse. The previous believers such as Jews and Christians were given the same rules but they did not follow it well. So, let this be known before you judge Islam.

Answering your post, Islam does wish people to love their mothers and fathers and siblings and to respect every relative. However, it expects all of them to love God over everyone else. During my religious pathfinding time, I encountered a dilemma of having to obey God or obey my parents. I consulted all resources I could and found out that I had to obey God firstly. This is very similar to Christianity and Judaism. That is the bottom line.

*Teresh claims that Islam is easier than any of its previous religions. That may be, I have not decided that.